What's irking me, an observation (Destiny)

by Earendil, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 15:39 (3280 days ago)

First off, I'm not making an observation on value or worth. I'm also not making a judgement on what is and isn't reasonable behavior/pricing/value/product. We (the internet community) are exposed to hyperbole and thought germs, and they breed. It would be good to acknowledge that some times. None the less, even the Bungie apologist in me can get a little tired, and I find it helpful to take a step back and reason out why people may feel the way they do, and why I feel the way I do.

From where I stand, it's not a single thing that is pricking the community's nerve. It's not the cross promotions. It's not the Collector's edition. It's not the additional playstation exclusives. It's the combination of it all within the context of where we are coming from.

Reasonable or not, I think many of us had the impression there would be more content in Destiny and in The Dark Below. House of Wolves was generally seen better, but for my own part I don't know if that's because it met initial expectations, or simply that my expectations were much lower. Note: See first paragraph again.

So here we are with a more expensive expansion on the horizon. We have doubts. Bungie is rightfully unwilling to tell us about the number of story missions and exact content for the reason that it's not set in stone, and would spoil the surprise. But all that leaves us is knowing that there is a $40 expansion coming with an undefined quantity of content, and any content we DO hear about is behind additional paywalls.

I don't know what the solution is. Maybe if it had all been spaced out more. Perhaps it's to go back in time and temper expectations of the game. Our initial expectations have created this little fear of what will be delivered. If Bungie had exceeded our expectations with content to date, we wouldn't give a rats ass if a tiny quest were wrapped up in an energy drink, because we'd be confident that the next expansion would be enough. Instead we're hungry for content and change, and everything we know about is broken up and charged for with products a good number of us don't want.

Thus, the little things that we're hearing about don't serve to give us confidence and alleviate our fear, they actually serve to promote it.

I hope that the reason Bungie is willing to do this is because they are extremely confident in the quantity of content in The Taken King. Perhaps they even know that the content carved out is stuff that sucks and we'll only ever play once. But if Bungie isn't confident, and the community judges the content quantity a little low, all of this will inevitably be dredged back up again in a couple months.

My advice to the community is to wait and see. Everything that is happening needs to be viewed in the context of the Taken King. But we don't have that context yet, so let's try and wait.


My advice for Bungie [dons Cody hat] is to try and slow the pace at which we find out about content that won't be in TTK. Or, try and temper it by providing us with information on the cool things we DO get. If for example you have 50 more of these excluded quests that are part of 50 more promotions, it would be a really good idea to tell the community that the Taken King will come with 1000 new quests on its own. If we had an ideal of what fraction of content wasn't in TTK, we'll be less likely to let our wildest fears run rampant. No one wants rampancy.

I think that's what's been slowly eating at me. Not knowing what the context for all of this is. Now it's off my chest, and I can go back to being the apologist. I'm still hopeful and trusting, and will continue to argue with some of you under the assumption that Bungie isn't evil or conniving, and is doing their best. The End.


Appendix:
I kept trying to work 5 pounds of veal and choo choo trains into this post. I was never happy with the placement. I'm still posting the movie clip though.

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I concur.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 15:45 (3280 days ago) @ Earendil
edited by INSANEdrive, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 15:50

I don't know what the solution is. Maybe if it had all been spaced out more. Perhaps it's to go back in time and temper expectations of the game. Our initial expectations have created this little fear of what will be delivered. If Bungie had exceeded our expectations with content to date, we wouldn't give a rats ass if a tiny quest were wrapped up in an energy drink, because we'd be confident that the next expansion would be enough. Instead we're hungry for content and change, and everything we know about is broken up and charged for with products a good number of us don't want.

Thus, the little things that we're hearing about don't serve to give us confidence and alleviate our fear, they actually serve to promote it.

This is where communication comes in.

My advice for Bungie [dons Cody hat] is to try and slow the pace at which we find out about content that won't be in TTK. Or, try and temper it by providing us with information on the cool things we DO get. If for example you have 50 more of these excluded quests that are part of 50 more promotions, it would be a really good idea to tell the community that the Taken King will come with 1000 new quests on its own. If we had an ideal of what fraction of content wasn't in TTK, we'll be less likely to let our wildest fears run rampant. No one wants rampancy.

Anyone here surprised they didn't announce that HoW wasn't going to get a raid intill the last second?
(Which also follows back up the the first point)

Fantastic post

by yakaman, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 15:57 (3280 days ago) @ Earendil

From where I stand, it's not a single thing that is pricking the community's nerve. It's not the cross promotions. It's not the Collector's edition. It's not the additional playstation exclusives. It's the combination of it all within the context of where we are coming from.

You nailed so much. I feel like the whole community is sore or worn out with these kinds of issues. It's not that Bungie has done any one super-controversial thing; it's that there's been many somewhat-controversial things. And what each of us finds controversial depends on the subject matter, who we are, our expectations, etc.

Reasonable or not, I think many of us had the impression there would be more content in Destiny and in The Dark Below. House of Wolves was generally seen better, but for my own part I don't know if that's because it met initial expectations, or simply that my expectations were much lower. Note: See first paragraph again.

Absolutely. I also think that much of the Destiny Community's anxiety comes from the "not much there at launch" sentiment, fairly or not. Awesome observation.

The best course of action (as it always seems to be) is to simply wait and see. Why is that so damn hard to do?

:)

Fantastic post

by scarab @, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 17:06 (3280 days ago) @ yakaman

Absolutely. I also think that much of the Destiny Community's anxiety comes from the "not much there at launch" sentiment, fairly or not. Awesome observation.

Definitely fair to say there wasn't enough there at launch.

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Fantastic post

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 17:23 (3280 days ago) @ yakaman

The best course of action (as it always seems to be) is to simply wait and see. Why is that so damn hard to do?

It's not. I will not be preordering and I won't buy this new expansion for at least 2 weeks after it comes out to see if it's actually going to be worth it. For all of the reasons that the OP listed.

Years from now, game design 101 classes will have an entire week dedicated to Destiny: Where the game went wrong, where the marketing went wrong, and why those things made consumers feel wronged.

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And why it made money anyways?

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 17:49 (3280 days ago) @ Kahzgul

- No text -

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Totally

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 17:56 (3280 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

Destiny is to the Halo franchise what The Hangover 2 was to the Hangover. They both made a crapload of money based on the quality and popularity of the previous work, but neither really delivered on the promise. They aren't objectively bad, per se, but they were disappointing enough that overall feeling towards the product has been tempered.

At this point, are you as likely to believe the hype about TTK as you believed the hype about Destiny before it launched? Destiny has done something awful to my faith in game developers and I've sworn off preorders altogether as a result (and I used to be a game developer!). That is a long term failure for the company, even if the short term sales of the game were amazing.

Furthermore, I believe that any future success in the Destiny business model is going to be a major detriment to the overall business model of gaming as a whole. I do not want to support this sort of business practice. It feels predatory and abusive to me. Ever hear the expression "you can shear a sheep many times but skin it only once?" I made another post about that just above this thread. I'm sad.

Fantastic post

by yakaman, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 22:12 (3280 days ago) @ Kahzgul

The best course of action (as it always seems to be) is to simply wait and see. Why is that so damn hard to do?


It's not. I will not be preordering and I won't buy this new expansion for at least 2 weeks after it comes out to see if it's actually going to be worth it. For all of the reasons that the OP listed.

Isn't this the very definition of 'wait and see'?

EDIT: ah, I am a moron. It's not 'so damn hard to to'. :-p Bungie's free pass is revoked for me. I'll have to be persuaded to buy from now on.

Fantastic post

by Earendil, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 22:15 (3280 days ago) @ yakaman

The best course of action (as it always seems to be) is to simply wait and see. Why is that so damn hard to do?


It's not. I will not be preordering and I won't buy this new expansion for at least 2 weeks after it comes out to see if it's actually going to be worth it. For all of the reasons that the OP listed.


Isn't this the very definition of 'wait and see'?

EDIT: ah, I am a moron. It's not 'so damn hard to to'. :-p Bungie's free pass is revoked for me. I'll have to be persuaded to buy from now on.

ooo, you got that edit in RIGHT before I could rebuke you! In fact it wasn't there when I hit the "reply" button, but showed up in the quoted text.

Next time, gadget....

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Great post. Also worth mentioning:

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 16:30 (3280 days ago) @ Earendil

I posted this in a thread below, but it's worth sharing here as well. Looks like the Redbull quest is just a timed exclusive:

https://twitter.com/be11ebunny/status/613744248454778882

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I think you are the eighth person to point that out?

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 16:33 (3280 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

No harm in a little redundancy, though, really.

...Or a lot of redundancy, as it were.

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I think you are the eighth person to point that out?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 16:34 (3280 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

D'oh! I hadn't seen anyone else post it, but I can't say I read every post in the thread. Sorry about that :)

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You were probably only third anyways

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 16:36 (3280 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I should probably tone down the hyperbole, but... Nukes or something. Whatever.

Here is something positive, it's only 6/24/2015

by Earendil, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 22:17 (3280 days ago) @ Earendil

7/7/2015 is in the near future.

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Here is something positive, it's only 6/24/2015

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 22:18 (3280 days ago) @ Earendil

Last bungie day was when Xbox players were told their game has less stuff in it. Search the forums for the now infamous petetheduck post. This year looks just as bleak.

Thanks for crushing my hope, Cody

by Earendil, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 22:38 (3280 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Here is something positive, it's only 6/24/2015

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, June 24, 2015, 22:54 (3280 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Last bungie day was when Xbox players were told their game has less stuff in it. Search the forums for the now infamous petetheduck post. This year looks just as bleak.

Does it? Do you have some sort of inside information about what's coming (or not coming) from Bungie that makes you say this?

(I know one thing that's coming that I thought was super-cool when I saw it at E3. Its presence alone will make 'bleak' an inapplicable term, imo.)

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Is it Pimps at Sea???!!!

by Kahzgul, Thursday, June 25, 2015, 14:54 (3279 days ago) @ Claude Errera

- No text -

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Here is something positive, it's only 6/24/2015

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, June 25, 2015, 20:14 (3279 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Does it? Do you have some sort of inside information about what's coming (or not coming) from Bungie that makes you say this?

As a matter of fact sir, I don't :-p

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