I feel like Im getting robbed by bungie on this new release. I know this is old news but really?

Original game 60. plus 30 for both expansions.

New Expansion SOLO is 40.

Digital Content from Legendary is 20.

Thats 150 dollars.

Legendary Edition is 80 with physical goodies. So i can pay 60 for digital editions, or I can spend 80 and get more stuff.

WHERE DOES IT END?!

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I feel like Im getting robbed by bungie on this new release. I know this is old news but really?

Original game 60. plus 30 for both expansions.

New Expansion SOLO is 40.

Digital Content from Legendary is 20.

Thats 150 dollars.

Legendary Edition is 80 with physical goodies. So i can pay 60 for digital editions, or I can spend 80 and get more stuff.

WHERE DOES IT END?!

Maybe, if you feel like you're getting robbed, you shouldn't pay the $60 for the new expansion and cosmetic items? That would be where it ends.

I feel like Im getting robbed by bungie on this new release. I know this is old news but really?

Original game 60. plus 30 for both expansions.

New Expansion SOLO is 40.

Digital Content from Legendary is 20.

Thats 150 dollars.

Legendary Edition is 80 with physical goodies. So i can pay 60 for digital editions, or I can spend 80 and get more stuff.

WHERE DOES IT END?!

Do you think the expansion is not worth $40? Do you think the digital extras are not worth $20? Do you think the physical goodies are not worth an extra $20 on top of that?

Don't buy them, I guess? If you want to own everything out there, that's the price. If you just want to play the expansion, it's $40. If you don't think that's worth it... then just don't buy it. Or wait until the price goes down some time during Year 2.

I know its just irritating to pay 40 for the expansion. or you can pay 80 and get everything since the beginning.

I know its just irritating to pay 40 for the expansion. or you can pay 80 and get everything since the beginning.

But you got a year of PLAYING the game for the extra $40. Isn't that worth something?

It definitely is.

I will probably just get the expansion. With all the games coming out this year/next who knows what I will be playing.

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WHERE DOES IT END?!

If you're asking when Bungie will stop selling expansion packs, I would guess about 10 years from now.

I'm not buying the expansion for any number of reasons, price probably being the least of my concerns, but the fact is that making a luxury good too expensive is not the same as robbery. It's.. well, they've tapped into your psyche, found that you're a loyal fan, and decided that since you'll pay anything to support Bungie, they're going to overcharge you.

I mean, those $60 (TTK plus terrible digital exclusives) could buy you the Witcher 3. Or Batman. Or the new CoD. Or 12 cheap beers. Or one box of diapers (goddamn diapers).

For me, I'd rather have a whole new game, and I'm voting with my wallet. I suggest you do the same.

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I'm not buying the expansion for any number of reasons, price probably being the least of my concerns, but the fact is that making a luxury good too expensive is not the same as robbery. It's.. well, they've tapped into your psyche, found that you're a loyal fan, and decided that since you'll pay anything to support Bungie, they're going to overcharge you.

I mean, those $60 (TTK plus terrible digital exclusives) could buy you the Witcher 3. Or Batman. Or the new CoD. Or 12 cheap beers. Or one box of diapers (goddamn diapers).

For me, I'd rather have a whole new game, and I'm voting with my wallet. I suggest you do the same.

The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

If you're going to get it or not?

Our previous in-game discussions indicated you would likely not be purchasing anymore DLC for Destiny.

I disagree with the idea that I'm being "taken advantage of." I have a pretty good idea of what I'm paying for (mind you I am not buying the Digital Collector's Edition or the upgrade to it). I deem what is rumored and confirmed to be in TTK to be worth $40. If you go by the non-exploitative definition, sure they are taking advantage of my willingness to pay for this product, but that is literally the definition of business.

I agree. And with so many GOOD (looking anyway) games coming out, I would rather get a new game.

Like a new car Destiny loses much of it's value over time.

People have been playing the game for nearly a year now. While it is true they have sunk cost in it they also do have some value in playing the game for a year.

A new player has missed much of that exclusivity, and the base game is worth less to them.

Is it worth $60? Perhaps. For some people it isn't. Some didn't think the money for HoW was worth it and didn't buy it. Same for DB. DB's multiplayer maps are free now. Are they worth it?

The key point is that we are free to chose not to pay, and bungie won't delete our characters.

If you're going to get it or not?

Our previous in-game discussions indicated you would likely not be purchasing anymore DLC for Destiny.

My stance on the matter is unchanged. After TDB and HoW, I have very little faith that TTK will justify it's price.

From the Intertubes: http://captiongenerator.com/47471/Hitler-Rants-about-Destiny-The-Taken-King

Legendary Edition is 80 with physical goodies. So i can pay 60 for digital editions, or I can spend 80 and get more stuff.

"Throw a bag of dicks at them" made me chuckle

If you're going to get it or not?

Our previous in-game discussions indicated you would likely not be purchasing anymore DLC for Destiny.

My stance on the matter is unchanged. After TDB and HoW, I have very little faith that TTK will justify it's price.

So, that HBO classic custom night sure looked like fun...

My stance on the matter is unchanged. After TDB and HoW, I have very little faith that TTK will justify it's price.

That's a fair position that I think reasonable people can disagree on. In your opinion, what would justify the $40?

I'm not buying the expansion for any number of reasons, price probably being the least of my concerns, but the fact is that making a luxury good too expensive is not the same as robbery. It's.. well, they've tapped into your psyche, found that you're a loyal fan, and decided that since you'll pay anything to support Bungie, they're going to overcharge you.

I mean, those $60 (TTK plus terrible digital exclusives) could buy you the Witcher 3. Or Batman. Or the new CoD. Or 12 cheap beers. Or one box of diapers (goddamn diapers).

For me, I'd rather have a whole new game, and I'm voting with my wallet. I suggest you do the same.

The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Sort of? If enough people decide their "you" problems mean they won't buy the expansion, that does, in fact, become a Bungie problem.

Like seriously that was a good one. Love the red bull jab at the end.

Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Sort of? If enough people decide their "you" problems mean they won't buy the expansion, that does, in fact, become a Bungie problem.

Right, I just said that. Bungie feels the $40 is the right value. You decide if that's the right value for you. But you don't decide for everyone if that's the right value. You only decide for you.

My stance on the matter is unchanged. After TDB and HoW, I have very little faith that TTK will justify it's price.

That's a fair position that I think reasonable people can disagree on. In your opinion, what would justify the $40?

-Custom Games on Par with Halo 3 in terms of depth and options available

-Forge on Par with Halo Reach in terms of tool-sets

-Theater Mode on Par with Halo Reach

-Two Raids, each on Par with The Vault of Glass in terms of variety of encounter design and length.

-Two New Patrol spaces on Par with Venus/Earth in terms of scope

-A Forge-world-esque Multiplayer map.

-Story missions that tie up some of the untold number of loose ends in the vanilla game's narrative.

-Exotic bounties for any existing exotic weapons that don't have one.

That'll about cover it.

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If I had to pay $5 for a beer I'd throw up on the cashier just for suggesting it.

I'll buy 100 cans of Stroh's for that.

You're right, you ARE being taken advantage of! BY WHOEVER SELLS YOU "CHEAP" BEER!

My stance on the matter is unchanged. After TDB and HoW, I have very little faith that TTK will justify it's price.

That's a fair position that I think reasonable people can disagree on. In your opinion, what would justify the $40?

-Custom Games on Par with Halo 3 in terms of depth and options available

-Forge on Par with Halo Reach in terms of tool-sets

-Theater Mode on Par with Halo Reach

-Two Raids, each on Par with The Vault of Glass in terms of variety of encounter design and length.

-Two New Patrol spaces on Par with Venus/Earth in terms of scope

-A Forge-world-esque Multiplayer map.

-Story missions that tie up some of the untold number of loose ends in the vanilla game's narrative.

-Exotic bounties for any existing exotic weapons that don't have one.

That'll about cover it.

For FORTY DOLLARS?!? You want them to add 2 HUGE and MAJOR features and more raids than were in the original game?!? So... you're saying you want them to make up for what you thought was a game without enough content in the first place... for less than you paid for the original game...

Well, I guess this is the last we'll see of you in Destiny...

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My stance on the matter is unchanged. After TDB and HoW, I have very little faith that TTK will justify it's price.

That's a fair position that I think reasonable people can disagree on. In your opinion, what would justify the $40?

-Custom Games on Par with Halo 3 in terms of depth and options available

-Forge on Par with Halo Reach in terms of tool-sets

-Theater Mode on Par with Halo Reach

-Two Raids, each on Par with The Vault of Glass in terms of variety of encounter design and length.

-Two New Patrol spaces on Par with Venus/Earth in terms of scope

-A Forge-world-esque Multiplayer map.

-Story missions that tie up some of the untold number of loose ends in the vanilla game's narrative.

-Exotic bounties for any existing exotic weapons that don't have one.

That'll about cover it.

Not sure about getting two whole new patrol regions (though I'd love an urban Earth region, such as Widow's Court, and the end of the HoW story heavily implies Jupiter/Saturn being a patrol region), but all of that other stuff would be in line when you consider how much we paid for the base Destiny content.

I'd be a bit more peeved if Sammy and I didn't have the PS4 perk of paying half price for digital content (We're only paying $20 each for The Taken King, essentially), but the price is pretty steep considering that it's more than the last two DLCs combined, and only a bit less than the vanilla game.

But even if I were to pay $40, I'd be more than happy if it included a theater mode, or PS4's photography mode.

I live in Oregon now, I haven't seen a white castle in 5 years.

And diarrhea.

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Someone's a little salty about Wideload.

"I need a Red Bull."

I nearly spit out my tea.

No matter how cool the new dances and class items are, I doubt you will really crave them that much.

On the other hand, if you are a "collector" and you must have everything then the Legendary edition with all the cools books and whatnot is for you. And being a "collector" you understand that things are going to be expensive. It's still odd to re-buy the stuff you already have in order to get the "collectors" items but, whatever. I don't think that oddity is going to change.
And as I'm not a collector myself it doesn't really affect me.

Someone's a little salty about Wideload.

I'm pretty sure that was aimed at Marvel/Star Wars (the three new subclasses were compared to Avengers/Star Wars in the sentence before).

The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Just thinking out loud but if the majority of people are "letting themselves be taken advantage of" (I'm not saying that is the case) maybe they need to educate themselves on that fact and start voting with their wallets a bit more. If the ratio of game "quality" to game price has dropped in the last 10 years or so it might be wise to, collectively, stop paying for these things.

I don't fully believe that this is the case, but it's a nice idea.

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No matter how cool the new dances and class items are, I doubt you will really crave them that much.

I spent a good 30 minutes of research on my old warlock that I deleted looking for the best dance moves. Female Exo wins the current dance competition hands down.

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The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Just thinking out loud but if the majority of people are "letting themselves be taken advantage of" (I'm not saying that is the case) maybe they need to educate themselves on that fact and start voting with their wallets a bit more. If the ratio of game "quality" to game price has dropped in the last 10 years or so it might be wise to, collectively, stop paying for these things.

I don't fully believe that this is the case, but it's a nice idea.

Bungie (again, more likely Activision) is simply responding to that market. If consumers did stop spending like they had been, the prices would adjust. We all made this bed, and you're right, we as a group would need to collectively take action to create a change in the pricing of games. You can't blame sellers for pricing a product at the point where consumers are buying it.

No matter how cool the new dances and class items are, I doubt you will really crave them that much.

I spent a good 30 minutes of research on my old warlock that I deleted looking for the best dance moves. Female Exo wins the current dance competition hands down.

Haha, nice. I have never really been a fan of my male human's moves. I like whoever does the jump first. Maybe some Hunter?

Bungie (again, more likely Activision) is simply responding to that market. If consumers did stop spending like they had been, the prices would adjust. We all made this bed, and you're right, we as a group would need to collectively take action to create a change in the pricing of games. You can't blame sellers for pricing a product at the point where consumers are buying it.

Especially when consumers expect more from new products than old products.

No matter how cool the new dances and class items are, I doubt you will really crave them that much.

I spent a good 30 minutes of research on my old warlock that I deleted looking for the best dance moves. Female Exo wins the current dance competition hands down.

Haha, nice. I have never really been a fan of my male human's moves. I like whoever does the jump first. Maybe some Hunter?

Male Exo is my favorite. A robot doing the robot is too good.

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The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Just thinking out loud but if the majority of people are "letting themselves be taken advantage of" (I'm not saying that is the case) maybe they need to educate themselves on that fact and start voting with their wallets a bit more. If the ratio of game "quality" to game price has dropped in the last 10 years or so it might be wise to, collectively, stop paying for these things.

I don't fully believe that this is the case, but it's a nice idea.

Bungie (again, more likely Activision) is simply responding to that market. If consumers did stop spending like they had been, the prices would adjust. We all made this bed, and you're right, we as a group would need to collectively take action to create a change in the pricing of games. You can't blame sellers for pricing a product at the point where consumers are buying it.

But Bungie/Activision have also created that market force by intentionally designing Destiny in order to get consumers addicted. The result is that they are actively trying to addict you to their product and then sell you expansions they know you are less likely to resist (due to your addiction) at a price that is higher than what a non-addicted person would pay. There is a very real level of corporate greed and irresponsibility tied to this pricing and content release design; Bungie and Activision are not "innocent" or "simply following the market" here.

If I had to pay $5 for a beer I'd throw up on the cashier just for suggesting it.

I'll buy 100 cans of Stroh's for that.

You're right, you ARE being taken advantage of! BY WHOEVER SELLS YOU "CHEAP" BEER!

What bar do you go to? Bars in here in LA charge $8 a beer on average, with the upscale ones selling at $14. I wish to god I was making that up. Good beer, of course - that's $14 for a snifter of Brother Thelonius, not some Blatz Ice, but still. It's a LOT to pay for a single drink.

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Comparing it to the under-delivering vanilla game isn't fair, because we didn't get our money's worth of actual content there, either. Someone else broke it down earlier, but it's basically 10-15 hours of content that makes you repeat it over and over without being actually new. That's not really enough for a $60 game these days.

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The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Just thinking out loud but if the majority of people are "letting themselves be taken advantage of" (I'm not saying that is the case) maybe they need to educate themselves on that fact and start voting with their wallets a bit more. If the ratio of game "quality" to game price has dropped in the last 10 years or so it might be wise to, collectively, stop paying for these things.

I don't fully believe that this is the case, but it's a nice idea.

Bungie (again, more likely Activision) is simply responding to that market. If consumers did stop spending like they had been, the prices would adjust. We all made this bed, and you're right, we as a group would need to collectively take action to create a change in the pricing of games. You can't blame sellers for pricing a product at the point where consumers are buying it.

But Bungie/Activision have also created that market force by intentionally designing Destiny in order to get consumers addicted. The result is that they are actively trying to addict you to their product and then sell you expansions they know you are less likely to resist (due to your addiction) at a price that is higher than what a non-addicted person would pay. There is a very real level of corporate greed and irresponsibility tied to this pricing and content release design; Bungie and Activision are not "innocent" or "simply following the market" here.

Putting agency in Bungie's hands by claiming they've created the addiction is precisely why people are addicted to Destiny. Take some responsibility and put that agency back in your own hands. Bungie has incentive to create a product with addictive aspects. You have an incentive to spend your time and money on what you find enjoyable. If you allow yourself to forgo your enjoyment by accepting Destiny's skinner box, it's a box you put yourself in.

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The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Just thinking out loud but if the majority of people are "letting themselves be taken advantage of" (I'm not saying that is the case) maybe they need to educate themselves on that fact and start voting with their wallets a bit more. If the ratio of game "quality" to game price has dropped in the last 10 years or so it might be wise to, collectively, stop paying for these things.

I don't fully believe that this is the case, but it's a nice idea.

Bungie (again, more likely Activision) is simply responding to that market. If consumers did stop spending like they had been, the prices would adjust. We all made this bed, and you're right, we as a group would need to collectively take action to create a change in the pricing of games. You can't blame sellers for pricing a product at the point where consumers are buying it.

But Bungie/Activision have also created that market force by intentionally designing Destiny in order to get consumers addicted. The result is that they are actively trying to addict you to their product and then sell you expansions they know you are less likely to resist (due to your addiction) at a price that is higher than what a non-addicted person would pay. There is a very real level of corporate greed and irresponsibility tied to this pricing and content release design; Bungie and Activision are not "innocent" or "simply following the market" here.

Putting agency in Bungie's hands by claiming they've created the addiction is precisely why people are addicted to Destiny. Take some responsibility and put that agency back in your own hands. Bungie has incentive to create a product with addictive aspects. You have an incentive to spend your time and money on what you find enjoyable. If you allow yourself to forgo your enjoyment by accepting Destiny's skinner box, it's a box you put yourself in.

You realise you are now claiming drug dealers bear no responsibility for the fact that people do drugs, right? Addiction, by definition, is an activity that people cannot stop doing even though they want to. Addicts need help, but drug dealers bear at least a portion of the blame.

Banana, I apologize if I upset you with my math or opinions, but saying that because the price of beer is not a constant around the world somehow voids my statement of what I could buy for $60 is simply false.

For me, when I think about what I can get for my $60, I think of other fun times I have, one of which is going to a bar where they sell $5 beers. 12 beers at $5 each = $60. That's math. That's not an analogy. There's no substitution or simile here. Other people in other places or buying from other sources can get more or fewer beers, but that doesn't invalidate the math at all, nor does it change the fact that $60 buys me 12 beers. I guess, if you really want to parse the purchase, it buys me 10 beers, because I'd leave a $10 tip on that tab.

And none of us believe them.

I swear to god you can walk into any dive in LA and the cheapest, crappiest, most horrible swill they sell still costs at least $4. Probably $4.50. I don't know why the cheapest beer can't be sold in whole dollar amounts around here.

Banana, I apologize if I upset you with my math or opinions, but saying that because the price of beer is not a constant around the world somehow voids my statement of what I could buy for $60 is simply false.

For me, when I think about what I can get for my $60, I think of other fun times I have, one of which is going to a bar where they sell $5 beers. 12 beers at $5 each = $60. That's math. That's not an analogy. There's no substitution or simile here. Other people in other places or buying from other sources can get more or fewer beers, but that doesn't invalidate the math at all, nor does it change the fact that $60 buys me 12 beers. I guess, if you really want to parse the purchase, it buys me 10 beers, because I'd leave a $10 tip on that tab.

That's not why it's a bad analogy. The price of a beer at a supermarket is analogous to the price of destiny on amazon. The price of a beer at a bar is analogous to the price of playing destiny at an arcade.

I bought a 1994 Buick LeSabre off my sister for $50.

It's all relative, man.

The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Just thinking out loud but if the majority of people are "letting themselves be taken advantage of" (I'm not saying that is the case) maybe they need to educate themselves on that fact and start voting with their wallets a bit more. If the ratio of game "quality" to game price has dropped in the last 10 years or so it might be wise to, collectively, stop paying for these things.

I don't fully believe that this is the case, but it's a nice idea.

Bungie (again, more likely Activision) is simply responding to that market. If consumers did stop spending like they had been, the prices would adjust. We all made this bed, and you're right, we as a group would need to collectively take action to create a change in the pricing of games. You can't blame sellers for pricing a product at the point where consumers are buying it.

But Bungie/Activision have also created that market force by intentionally designing Destiny in order to get consumers addicted. The result is that they are actively trying to addict you to their product and then sell you expansions they know you are less likely to resist (due to your addiction) at a price that is higher than what a non-addicted person would pay. There is a very real level of corporate greed and irresponsibility tied to this pricing and content release design; Bungie and Activision are not "innocent" or "simply following the market" here.

Putting agency in Bungie's hands by claiming they've created the addiction is precisely why people are addicted to Destiny. Take some responsibility and put that agency back in your own hands. Bungie has incentive to create a product with addictive aspects. You have an incentive to spend your time and money on what you find enjoyable. If you allow yourself to forgo your enjoyment by accepting Destiny's skinner box, it's a box you put yourself in.

You realise you are now claiming drug dealers bear no responsibility for the fact that people do drugs, right? Addiction, by definition, is an activity that people cannot stop doing even though they want to. Addicts need help, but drug dealers bear at least a portion of the blame.

I think people can stop playing Destiny if they want to. I'd be happy to change that opinion if you could provide me with some sort of evidence that Bungie is getting people hopelessly hooked on Destiny at the same rates as junkies are getting hopelessly hooked on heroine. I am not going to accept outliers as evidence of a parallel, and I think your example is a mindless trivialization.

http://cjsupperdeck.com/what-is-2-1-2-.html

This is near me, but $2 you call its are pretty common. Cj's only does $2 for mixed drinks. LOSERS.

Once, my dad gave me $20 to go take my girlfriend to a bar for some reason. Being super cheap, I figured I'd just get her sloshed for $10 and pocket the dough. Brought her over to a nightclub with $2 you call its and 4 252s (a double shot of Bacardi 151 and Wild Turkey 101) later, I was up $12 and down one bedsheet from her puking on it.

Worth it.

Comparing it to the under-delivering vanilla game isn't fair, because we didn't get our money's worth of actual content there, either. Someone else broke it down earlier, but it's basically 10-15 hours of content that makes you repeat it over and over without being actually new. That's not really enough for a $60 game these days.

I think you misinterpreted my post. I totally agree with him on content versus price. My thing is that I'd be happy with just a number of things on his list, as I feel we won't be getting any of them (especially when you take into account how little the vanilla Destiny offered us at a higher price point).

This was back in the early 2000's. During the summers we could get pitchers of High Life or Natty Light for $2. Talk about a cheap night at the bars.

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The expansion is $40. If that's too much for you, that's a you problem. They set that price on what they feel the value of their work is, and what they believe consumers are willing to pay. If you feel it's overcharging, that is a you problem. If you feel you're being taken advantage of, that is a you problem. Not a Bungie problem. Bungie's problem is finding a price the market will bear. They decided on $40.

Just thinking out loud but if the majority of people are "letting themselves be taken advantage of" (I'm not saying that is the case) maybe they need to educate themselves on that fact and start voting with their wallets a bit more. If the ratio of game "quality" to game price has dropped in the last 10 years or so it might be wise to, collectively, stop paying for these things.

I don't fully believe that this is the case, but it's a nice idea.

Bungie (again, more likely Activision) is simply responding to that market. If consumers did stop spending like they had been, the prices would adjust. We all made this bed, and you're right, we as a group would need to collectively take action to create a change in the pricing of games. You can't blame sellers for pricing a product at the point where consumers are buying it.

But Bungie/Activision have also created that market force by intentionally designing Destiny in order to get consumers addicted. The result is that they are actively trying to addict you to their product and then sell you expansions they know you are less likely to resist (due to your addiction) at a price that is higher than what a non-addicted person would pay. There is a very real level of corporate greed and irresponsibility tied to this pricing and content release design; Bungie and Activision are not "innocent" or "simply following the market" here.

Putting agency in Bungie's hands by claiming they've created the addiction is precisely why people are addicted to Destiny. Take some responsibility and put that agency back in your own hands. Bungie has incentive to create a product with addictive aspects. You have an incentive to spend your time and money on what you find enjoyable. If you allow yourself to forgo your enjoyment by accepting Destiny's skinner box, it's a box you put yourself in.

You realise you are now claiming drug dealers bear no responsibility for the fact that people do drugs, right? Addiction, by definition, is an activity that people cannot stop doing even though they want to. Addicts need help, but drug dealers bear at least a portion of the blame.

I think people can stop playing Destiny if they want to. I'd be happy to change that opinion if you could provide me with some sort of evidence that Bungie is getting people hopelessly hooked on Destiny at the same rates as junkies are getting hopelessly hooked on heroine. I am not going to accept outliers as evidence of a parallel, and I think your example is a mindless trivialization.

Video game addiction is real.

Destiny was designed to be addictive.

Obviously heroin has a chemically addictive component in addition to the mentally addictive element, but here's a forum thread that details how the addiction forms which may surprise you, since the habit forming elements of the addiction are surprisingly similar to how Destiny works.

I hope you are able to change your opinion of my example and find that I am not mindless nor is addiction trivial.

yes, the entire point of my "what you can buy for $60" was to show that it's all relative.

Comparing it to the under-delivering vanilla game isn't fair, because we didn't get our money's worth of actual content there, either. Someone else broke it down earlier, but it's basically 10-15 hours of content that makes you repeat it over and over without being actually new. That's not really enough for a $60 game these days.

I think you misinterpreted my post. I totally agree with him on content versus price. My thing is that I'd be happy with just a number of things on his list, as I feel we won't be getting any of them (especially when you take into account how little the vanilla Destiny offered us at a higher price point).

Sorry about that, I definitely thought you were saying he was being unreasonable, not unrealistic.

my favorite deschutes beer. I may have to go down to the giant mega liquor store this weekend (i'm in Texas, hard to find mirror pond here)

http://harrys.bcsclubs.com/prices/

What bar do you go to? Bars in here in LA charge $8 a beer on average, with the upscale ones selling at $14. I wish to god I was making that up. Good beer, of course - that's $14 for a snifter of Brother Thelonius, not some Blatz Ice, but still. It's a LOT to pay for a single drink.

That's fairly expensive for a bar*, but it's also worth noting that you didn't initially specify "at a bar." Usually when people talk about how much cheap beer they can buy for a large sum, they're referring to cases of piss water from the grocery store.

*And given that they even have a wildly varying price range for different pints, I'd suspect that you're already at a place which serves relatively little of what could be called "cheap beer."
The nearest bar to my apartment serves a variety of fairly ordinary craft beers, and they go for $5 a pint; that even includes more valuable stuff when they happen to have it, so for a while I was actually able to get pints of Old Rasputin on nitro for $5, which was quite neat. This same bar also has a fridge of cans (like Miller, PBR, etc) which go for a couple bucks. Still substantially more expensive than they'd be at the store.

What bar do you go to? Bars in here in LA charge $8 a beer on average, with the upscale ones selling at $14. I wish to god I was making that up. Good beer, of course - that's $14 for a snifter of Brother Thelonius, not some Blatz Ice, but still. It's a LOT to pay for a single drink.

That's fairly expensive for a bar*, but it's also worth noting that you didn't initially specify "at a bar." Usually when people talk about how much cheap beer they can buy for a large sum, they're referring to cases of piss water from the grocery store.

*And given that they even have a wildly varying price range for different pints, I'd suspect that you're already at a place which serves relatively little of what could be called "cheap beer."
The nearest bar to my apartment serves a variety of fairly ordinary craft beers, and they go for $5 a pint; that even includes more valuable stuff when they happen to have it, so for a while I was actually able to get pints of Old Rasputin on nitro for $5, which was quite neat. This same bar also has a fridge of cans (like Miller, PBR, etc) which go for a couple bucks. Still substantially more expensive than they'd be at the store.

Yeah, I realize I should have specified at a bar.

My dad had a PBR in China. Cost him $35. That's USD. $35 UNITED STATES DOLLARS. Pabst is licensed by a company there and they have different lines that vary wildly in price, so you can get them cheap, the same price as here (which is still expensive for China), or you can buy the Electra Glide Ultra Classic Touring model or whatever and pay $35 for it.

Once, I was at a party in Germany. Some guy comes in and yells "imports!" in German. Everyone cheers and gets up and runs to him for some beer, as imported beer was apparently much better than their cheap German swill.

So I'm thinking, oh, he went and got some nice Belgian beer or Heineken or some Danish stuff, maybe even something Czech.

He is holding 4 boxes of canned Budweiser.

MFW

Someone else broke it down earlier, but it's basically 10-15 hours of content that makes you repeat it over and over without being actually new.

Reminds me of Halo:CE.

That's a fair position that I think reasonable people can disagree on. In your opinion, what would justify the $40?

-Custom Games on Par with Halo 3 in terms of depth and options available

-Forge on Par with Halo Reach in terms of tool-sets

-Theater Mode on Par with Halo Reach

-Two Raids, each on Par with The Vault of Glass in terms of variety of encounter design and length.

-Two New Patrol spaces on Par with Venus/Earth in terms of scope

-A Forge-world-esque Multiplayer map.

-Story missions that tie up some of the untold number of loose ends in the vanilla game's narrative.

-Exotic bounties for any existing exotic weapons that don't have one.

That'll about cover it.

I'd probably pay more than $40 if the Taken King contained everything you've described. Custom games I couldn't care less about (that's just me, I know others really love the option), but Forge and Theater would be pretty great additions.

As far as the rest of what you've described, am I accurate in saying that you'd be happy if the Taken King contained ~2 times the content they've announced? So for you, the new expansion as announced would be worth maybe a maximum of $20 (and maybe even that's a stretch)?

That's a fair position that I think reasonable people can disagree on. In your opinion, what would justify the $40?

-Custom Games on Par with Halo 3 in terms of depth and options available

-Forge on Par with Halo Reach in terms of tool-sets

-Theater Mode on Par with Halo Reach

-Two Raids, each on Par with The Vault of Glass in terms of variety of encounter design and length.

-Two New Patrol spaces on Par with Venus/Earth in terms of scope

-A Forge-world-esque Multiplayer map.

-Story missions that tie up some of the untold number of loose ends in the vanilla game's narrative.

-Exotic bounties for any existing exotic weapons that don't have one.

That'll about cover it.

I'd probably pay more than $40 if the Taken King contained everything you've described. Custom games I couldn't care less about (that's just me, I know others really love the option), but Forge and Theater would be pretty great additions.

As far as the rest of what you've described, am I accurate in saying that you'd be happy if the Taken King contained ~2 times the content they've announced? So for you, the new expansion as announced would be worth maybe a maximum of $20 (and maybe even that's a stretch)?

If the Taken King was $20, I would definitely be more willing to consider picking it up.

At the same time though, the reason I included those *new* features in my list is because I find Destiny's feature-set and content to be wholly underwhelming, and to get me to continue playing it at all, Bungie needs to shake things up in ways that they have not shown they're willing (or maybe able) to thus far.

I also find your comparison of Destiny's campaign to Halo CE's in your other post above to be offensive and absurd, but that's not what this conversation is about, so I'll drop it.

Someone else broke it down earlier, but it's basically 10-15 hours of content that makes you repeat it over and over without being actually new.

Reminds me of Halo:CE.

But in Halo:CE your only incentive was fun. There was no weird reward system linked to RNG based loot that encouraged you to run The Library 100 times.

Also, Halo:CE existed back when your buddies could come over and link your 4 xboxes together with 4 TVs and have an awesome halofest party night! I cherish those memories and wish modern games encouraged similar get togethers. You can't even make a custom game in Destiny to pvp with just your friends!

If the Taken King was $20, I would definitely be more willing to consider picking it up.

At the same time though, the reason I included those *new* features in my list is because I find Destiny's feature-set and content to be wholly underwhelming, and to get me to continue playing it at all, Bungie needs to shake things up in ways that they have not shown they're willing (or maybe able) to thus far.

I agree that the DLCs could have stood to have more content.

I'm not actually one that's bothered too terribly much by missions reusing environments (I.E. running backwards through an area you've already had a mission in), but even I think they overdid it.

I really enjoyed Crota's End, but it was no VoG, and I think it suffered by comparison.

I'm still enjoying PoE (possibly because I still haven't killed Skolas), but I sometimes find myself wishing the mechanics of the rounds were more robust and thoughtful as opposed to the "fight standard adds, now do this objective in a random location while not dying to these standard adds, now do it again, OK, next round" system that currently stands.

I'd like to think that they'll periodically tweak PoE or add new bosses/mechanics and use it as a kind of real-world playtest to see what's neat and works and what isn't and doesn't, but, realistically, I guess that's doubtful.

I guess what I'm saying is that I haven't been overwhelmed by the DLC, but I can't in all honesty say I've been underwhelmed. I've been... whelmed. I guess.

And that's not what I've come to expect from Bungie, which is greatness or at least good-with-occasional-moments-of-greatness. Instead I have Destiny, which is, to me, solidly decent with occasional moments of greatness. To be sure, there are worse crimes. Faint praise, I know.

I also find your comparison of Destiny's campaign to Halo CE's in your other post above to be offensive and absurd, but that's not what this conversation is about, so I'll drop it.

I wasn't really comparing Destiny's campaign to Halo's as much as I was noting that that particular set of criticisms (lack of variety + campaign brevity) also used to be applied to Halo back in the day. To be clear, this actually means that I think it's possible to reuse environments in a relatively short game and still be a great game. I think Halo managed this where Destiny didn't.

I enjoyed the hell out of Halo CE's campaign, and I still do, but it was criticized early and often for having incredibly monotonous environments, reusing what was essentially the same room over and over and over, even running through an entire level in reverse. And even a casual run-through of the campaign would be hard-pressed to take more than 10 to 15 hours.

The difference (to me, at least) is that even though Halo CE was obviously a part of a greater story, its campaign felt self-contained and stood well on its own.

Metaphor: Halo was basically a nice, comfortable, well-constructed wooden chair with some interesting woodwork that I hadn't seen before. It needed a dining room table and a couple of other chairs to really reach its full potential, but it was perfectly serviceable on its own, and I still love sitting on it.

Destiny, on the other hand, basically launched as a really fancy chair with very comfortable seat, but the seatback isn't finished, and one of the legs is missing. It was designed as a bigger chair and designed to use more wood than my Halo chair, so even though the vanilla version used just as much wood as my Halo chair, it remained obviously unfinished even to the untrained eye. The carpenter has come in to work on the seatback a couple times, and he assures me he'll be back soon to attach the new leg, add some cushions, maybe even finish the back.

In that sense, what Destiny's campaign really reminds me of its Halo 2's, not CE's. Halo CE's campaign was not long, and had some serious issues with monotonous environments, but it was well-crafted as hell. Halo 2 tried to do more and ended up accomplishing less. It tried to add nuance and depth and variety, and it did to some extent, but it was also short and felt unfinished. When I survived the Maw run in CE, I felt like I had accomplished something, and I had, because CE was a self-contained arc within a larger mythology. Halo 2, on the other hand, was basically just an extended prologue to Halo 3.

That's similar to how I feel about Destiny's campaign as well.

Someone else broke it down earlier, but it's basically 10-15 hours of content that makes you repeat it over and over without being actually new.

Reminds me of Halo:CE.

But in Halo:CE your only incentive was fun. There was no weird reward system linked to RNG based loot that encouraged you to run The Library 100 times.

Also, Halo:CE existed back when your buddies could come over and link your 4 xboxes together with 4 TVs and have an awesome halofest party night! I cherish those memories and wish modern games encouraged similar get togethers. You can't even make a custom game in Destiny to pvp with just your friends!

I completely agree. I wasn't saying that CE was bad, just that those specific criticisms applied to it as much as they do to Destiny. What I find interesting is that Halo achieved greatness in the eyes of its players in spite of its flaws whereas Destiny is hobbled by the same.

I went into more detail here, so I'm not going to write another essay (I feel ridiculous enough as it is for the other one).

I feel I should be clear, though, that I agree with a lot of the criticisms that a lot of people have about Destiny. It's still worth the money to me. Your mileage (and that of others) may vary.

I live in Oregon now, I haven't seen a white castle in 5 years.

I'll be honest, the only white castle I've ever had (or seen) came from the freezer section at Randall's.

I assume I'm missing out?

Video game addiction is real.

Kimberly Young's book is about internet addiction disorder. David Greenfield's book seems to be more of the same. The only actual study admits "there is no clear standard for how to measure pathological gaming or how to score symptom checklists of pathological gaming." It also admits "This study’s primary strength is that it is nationally representative within 3%. Nonetheless, it yields far more questions
than answers. We do not know who is most at risk for developing pathological patterns of play, what the time course of developing pathological patterns is, how long the problems persist, what percentage of pathological gamers need help, what types of help might be most effective, or even whether pathological videogame use is a distinct problem or part of a broader spectrum of disorders"

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I enjoyed the hell out of Halo CE's campaign, and I still do, but it was criticized early and often for having incredibly monotonous environments, reusing what was essentially the same room over and over and over, even running through an entire level in reverse. And even a casual run-through of the campaign would be hard-pressed to take more than 10 to 15 hours.

How can you simultaneously say it was too short, yet criticize that they reused stuff to stretch it out longer? Did you want to run levels in reverse for 5 additional hours?

I've played games that took about 6 hours to finish that were the best I've ever played.

With as much market competition as there is in BCS, I'm surprised they're not just giving it away.

It's pretty great being the best dancer in the solar system.

Once, I was at a party in Germany. Some guy comes in and yells "imports!" in German. Everyone cheers and gets up and runs to him for some beer, as imported beer was apparently much better than their cheap German swill.

So I'm thinking, oh, he went and got some nice Belgian beer or Heineken

Video game addiction is real.

Kimberly Young's book is about internet addiction disorder. David Greenfield's book seems to be more of the same. The only actual study admits "there is no clear standard for how to measure pathological gaming or how to score symptom checklists of pathological gaming." It also admits "This study’s primary strength is that it is nationally representative within 3%. Nonetheless, it yields far more questions
than answers. We do not know who is most at risk for developing pathological patterns of play, what the time course of developing pathological patterns is, how long the problems persist, what percentage of pathological gamers need help, what types of help might be most effective, or even whether pathological videogame use is a distinct problem or part of a broader spectrum of disorders"

Technically, the source I gave is about video game addiction (it's a website specifically discussing it), but that website's sources include a book more broadly examining internet addiction as a whole. I haven't read the book, but if the government is going to claim it as a source, I think it's safe to say that it probably discusses games to at least an extent worthy of citation.

Also, the study does confirm that this is a real phenomenon, even though it may be part of a broader spectrum. I'd love to see it studied more in depth, but I hope that you can see that video game addiction is a scientifically observable phenomenon.

I enjoyed the hell out of Halo CE's campaign, and I still do, but it was criticized early and often for having incredibly monotonous environments, reusing what was essentially the same room over and over and over, even running through an entire level in reverse. And even a casual run-through of the campaign would be hard-pressed to take more than 10 to 15 hours.

How can you simultaneously say it was too short, yet criticize that they reused stuff to stretch it out longer? Did you want to run levels in reverse for 5 additional hours?

I've played games that took about 6 hours to finish that were the best I've ever played.

He didn't say it was too short, anywhere. He was using the 10-15 hour number because that's what Kahzgul used in relation to Destiny.

Heh - for someone who's incredibly rude to people he thinks fail reading comprehension, you pretty much skipped over his entire point in your rush to criticize. :)

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I was going to argue that the Male Exo was a better dancer, but let's just agree the Exos are the best dancing race in the solar system. :)

I always hated the look of the female exo.... But damn, those dance moves are the best.

Ended up at White Castle after a friends wedding reception. I don't think I've ever seen a bride so happy to get White Castle. Our DD probably hated us that night lol. But seriously. A case or two of sliders covered everyone,

I agree with this. The issue to many is that the prices, when compared to one another, seem completely outlandish. Just looking at the recent change alone, $20 for digital content when compared to $20 for an expansion can be mindboggling. Three shaders, three dance moves, and three XP boosts somehow is equal in price to Dark Below or House of Wolves. Or worth half of Taken King. Or worth one-third of the actual base game (which included four emotes per character type and a ton of shaders). I'd say that Activision has brought these reactions upon itself based on their whack pricing schemes, and I don't think it's surprising that people are taking issue with it all.

The thing that you are perhaps not considering is that these items were originally going to be fairly exclusive thanks to them being part of a higher priced Collectors Edition. Even after splitting them off from that Collectors Edition, Bungie is keeping them priced high not because the price represents the amount of work that went into making three emotes, shaders, and class items, but because it represents a form of exclusivity via pricing. In that way the $20 price vs The Taken King's mere $40 can make at least a bit more sense.

The thing that you are perhaps not considering is that these items were originally going to be fairly exclusive thanks to them being part of a higher priced Collectors Edition. Even after splitting them off from that Collectors Edition, Bungie is keeping them priced high not because the price represents the amount of work that went into making three emotes, shaders, and class items, but because it represents a form of exclusivity via pricing. In that way the $20 price vs The Taken King's mere $40 can make at least a bit more sense.

For the most part, I think that was addressed here.

These threads here at DBO aren't unique to DBO (though they do appear more rational). We saw this blow up regarding content and price over Luke's interview and the collector's edition, and now there are threads blowing up over this new $20 price in relation to other price points. While you may be relatively correct regarding why it has the $20 price point (on top of how it fits in with the current pricing scheme mentioned in the other thread), it still appears completely outrageous to plenty of people (for the reasons I was pointing out when doing a price comparison).

The thing that you are perhaps not considering is that these items were originally going to be fairly exclusive thanks to them being part of a higher priced Collectors Edition. Even after splitting them off from that Collectors Edition, Bungie is keeping them priced high not because the price represents the amount of work that went into making three emotes, shaders, and class items, but because it represents a form of exclusivity via pricing. In that way the $20 price vs The Taken King's mere $40 can make at least a bit more sense.

For the most part, I think that was addressed here.

These threads here at DBO aren't unique to DBO (though they do appear more rational). We saw this blow up regarding content and price over Luke's interview and the collector's edition, and now there are threads blowing up over this new $20 price in relation to other price points. While you may be relatively correct regarding why it has the $20 price point (on top of how it fits in with the current pricing scheme mentioned in the other thread), it still appears completely outrageous to plenty of people (for the reasons I was pointing out when doing a price comparison).

I guess I kinda gotta shrug at those people at this point then. Bungie has issued an apology, decoupled the special items from rebuying previous content, and effectively dropped the price to buy TTK + these special items by $20. If people want to complain about something I'd suggest they ponder why a Digital only Collectors Edition is the same price as a physical version that comes with books and maps and whatever else.

I guess I kinda gotta shrug at those people at this point then. Bungie has issued an apology, decoupled the special items from rebuying previous content, and effectively dropped the price to buy TTK + these special items by $20. If people want to complain about something I'd suggest they ponder why a Digital only Collectors Edition is the same price as a physical version that comes with books and maps and whatever else.

I think that's all valid. You can even shrug at them, but that doesn't mean they don't necessarily have validity to their point. The pricing all around is whack, including with your final example there. As for the apology, you get responses like this over on Reddit:

"I love that they have now added microtransactions under the guise of an apology and the entire destiny community is back in thumbs-up mode."

A lot of people have this feeling, too. At this point, Bungie can't really win beyond laughing all the way to the bank if people buy these items. There's still a lot of anger over the previous stuff and this new $20 price point, and it's not just on Reddit either (if you go reading around places, even places that usually give Bungie the benefit of the doubt). We'll have to wait and see where all of this goes. Either way, I understand why people are upset (from the price comparison point of view, the "entitlement" point of view that Mig was talking about in that one big DBO thread, and other points of view).

I also think that these can be really beneficial discussions to have.

Once, I was at a party in Germany. Some guy comes in and yells "imports!" in German. Everyone cheers and gets up and runs to him for some beer, as imported beer was apparently much better than their cheap German swill.

So I'm thinking, oh, he went and got some nice Belgian beer or Heineken or some Danish stuff, maybe even something Czech.

He is holding 4 boxes of canned Budweiser.

i was at a conference in canada once, and the "imports" were $7 (coors, bud light, etc). So i drank the domestics.