Discussion thread: private/custom games

On balance, has Destiny's lack of private/custom (multiplayer) games helped or hurt it so far?

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On balance, has Destiny's lack of private/custom (multiplayer) games helped or hurt it so far?

On "balance", I don't think it would have made much difference helping or hurting Destiny as a whole outside of limiting playstyle when people worked to turn it into Halo. People like Snipe (and you, Schooly) wouldn't suck as much as they did/do if they could limit the access that others have to specials/certain primaries, but the "balance" still would be about the same, because you'd still have OP Weapons in each class, so depending on limitations, people would flock to one set of weapons or another...

The market for the game would have been much bigger, though, which would have helped locate these specific weapons and fund endeavors in Destiny 2, so the absence is still tragic.

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On balance, has Destiny's lack of private/custom (multiplayer) games helped or hurt it so far?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "balance", and what sorts of things would harm or help Destiny in that regard? From where I'm standing Destiny PvP is more varied and fun than Halo's by a large margin. More options and playstyles. Faster. More tactical. Considering the lack of true objective gametypes, that is pretty astonishing to me.

You should try Trials of Osiris Schooly.

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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "balance"

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on+balance

For you and korny

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For you and korny

I've never heard that used as an idiom either. I thought you meant, "regarding balance".

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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "balance"

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on+balance

For you and korny

It's obviously hurt it then. What kind of question is that? I'd be better WITH custom games without any downside.

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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "balance"

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on+balance

For you and korny

It's obviously hurt it then. What kind of question is that? I'd be better WITH custom games without any downside.

The reasons I've heard for leaving them out:

1. It allows time and resources to be spent on other, more important parts of the game

2. By forcing people to play matchmaking if they want to play PvP, the matchmaking population is larger and allows for a better experience (more people = more even teams, shorter waits, etc). And since matchmaking and single player are supposed to complement each other (playing one to do well in the other), stronger matchmaking makes single player more valuable.

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2. By forcing people to play matchmaking if they want to play PvP, the matchmaking population is larger and allows for a better experience (more people = more even teams, shorter waits, etc). And since matchmaking and single player are supposed to complement each other (playing one to do well in the other), stronger matchmaking makes single player more valuable.

1. Halo 2 and 3 did fine in the matchmaking department despite custom games, and Destiny has even more players.
2. Only enable bounties, drops, and progression in matchmade PvP games. This way you still have your incentive to enter it.

Not rocket science.

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2. Only enable bounties, drops, and progression in matchmade PvP games. This way you still have your incentive to enter it.

Not rocket science.

You've missed the point. Disabling those things in private games should go without saying.

Let's say, just as an example, at any given time 25% of the people playing MM right now would rather be playing private/custom games than matchmaking. If you give them the option to do so, they'd exercise it and remove themselves from the MM environment, decreasing the player pool. This would in turn negatively impact the MM experience for the other 75%.

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Potentially. It would happen in the immediate term because of a brand new feature being implemented. People would naturally want to try it out, experiment, make fun things, etc. Unlike Bungie's Halo games since H3, though, there's no Bungie Pro or system in place to actually share content, so that takes away from a lot of things. There are also incentives, such as Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris, to pop back into matchmaking.

I'm thinking that customs would form a healthy relationship with matchmaking, and I'm thinking that both would be played fairly consistently regardless. Bungie could also implement customs that only work under certain circumstances to try and address a potential population splitting issue, you know? You must have at least five people, and they all must be in a clan together or something. Who knows.

Destiny itself has so many campaign and Patrol and Tower and MM options at this point, is split between four console versions, and the population could be all over the place at any given time just based on these factors. Customs would only add to that, and I don't see it harming matchmaking all that much. Of course I could be wrong, but until Bungie actually says something definitive about it, who knows what benefit or harm customs would cause.

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I'll be honest and say I don't even really get this discussion.

All the Halo games had custom games, with little or no effect on matchmaking quality. Why would it be an issue in Destiny?

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No idea. Schooly doesn't even play Destiny. Maybe customs being implemented would be cause for him to jump into the fray. Or maybe he's considering it because Halo is dead. I dunno.

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I guess I didn't mean the conversation in general. I just meant about it interfering with the quality of matchmaking.

Maybe it would, I don't really know. But I doubt that it would make much difference to the average person. As I said, it wasn't an issue with any of the Halo games.

Has Bungie stated that's the reason for no custom games, or is that just an assumption?

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Potentially. It would happen in the immediate term because of a brand new feature being implemented. People would naturally want to try it out, experiment, make fun things, etc.

Totally agree. Players are less inclined to exercise competitive experimentation when they have no private alternative. A big part of being competitive in Halo, was intimacy with maps, spawn locations, weapon spawns, etc. I don't play much PvP in Destiny because I feel bad going for a walk-about soul searching connection to my environment, while my team is getting murdered. Compared to Halo, Destiny's maps are more architecturally complicated and mobility greatly varies between classes. Studying maps and exploring jumps and locations is even more important to discovering advantages. A classic Halo ritual was loading up each custom map with a friend and running around it until I had we had great feel for it - kind of making a home in the environment before it became chaotic. Those moments you could spend 10 or 15 minutes here or there to see if you could make that jump, or where exactly that gun spawns constituted hours and hours worth of familiarity if you were to just learn competitively. There are still maps in Destiny I'm not comfortable in, and I don't take the risks to try everything I want to while being hunted. (I need to just man-up). The other casualty of course is local lans, the backbone of the halo social experience. I understand that there is a different focus in PvP and I think it is working just fine! But I'd love some customs and lans! =)

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Let's say, just as an example, at any given time 25% of the people playing MM right now would rather be playing private/custom games than matchmaking. If you give them the option to do so, they'd exercise it and remove themselves from the MM environment, decreasing the player pool. This would in turn negatively impact the MM experience for the other 75%.

It would not be 25% at any given time. That number is way too high. The real number would be far lower. Further, look at every other game ever made which has private matches that does fine with matchmaking (there are a ton). The impact would be virtually nil on your ability to find a match.

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Let's say, just as an example, at any given time 25% of the people playing MM right now would rather be playing private/custom games than matchmaking. If you give them the option to do so, they'd exercise it and remove themselves from the MM environment, decreasing the player pool. This would in turn negatively impact the MM experience for the other 75%.

It would not be 25% at any given time. That number is way too high. The real number would be far lower.

I like how he picked a number just as an example and you argued with that arbitrary example.

Further, look at every other game ever made which has private matches that does fine with matchmaking (there are a ton). The impact would be virtually nil on your ability to find a match.

I'm inclined to agree with you there.

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1. It allows time and resources to be spent on other, more important parts of the game

I doubt this to a certain extent. I'd bet it's been in the works for a while now. Whether it appears as a bonus with v1 or not until v2 is in my mind the only open question.

If it was never spelled out - I attended a private event a few weeks before launch of Destiny and we were able to play 6v6 games. It was 'hacky' but it did work.

2. By forcing people to play matchmaking if they want to play PvP, the matchmaking population is larger and allows for a better experience (more people = more even teams, shorter waits, etc). And since matchmaking and single player are supposed to complement each other (playing one to do well in the other), stronger matchmaking makes single player more valuable.

This I agree with. I don't doubt that when custom MM games become a reality in Destiny, that we will see a fracturing of the community. Throw in the incessant whining that makes up current fandom, and I can see regular MM populations drop significantly. It will be a sad thing if that happens.

- M

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This I agree with. I don't doubt that when custom MM games become a reality in Destiny, that we will see a fracturing of the community. Throw in the incessant whining that makes up current fandom, and I can see regular MM populations drop significantly. It will be a sad thing if that happens.

Wait, so do you think that pure custom games will happen (in the sense of a private lobby of sorts), or do you think that Bungie would go full on custom game matchmaking? I didn't think Schooly was implying custom MM searches.

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This I agree with. I don't doubt that when custom MM games become a reality in Destiny, that we will see a fracturing of the community. Throw in the incessant whining that makes up current fandom, and I can see regular MM populations drop significantly. It will be a sad thing if that happens.

Wait, so do you think that pure custom games will happen (in the sense of a private lobby of sorts), or do you think that Bungie would go full on custom game matchmaking? I didn't think Schooly was implying custom MM searches.

What I saw was 6 of us sitting down in front of giant displays. Someone chose 'Salvage' or 'Control' There were, I believe, some minor tweaks allowed, and then we matched up with the 6 players sitting opposite our row of 6 displays. One group was 'in charge' of the settings, the other one wasn't.

So extrapolating from that - it's possible the MM is get a team of 6 together, line up against another team of 6, and then have at it.

So is that a 'private lobby' ? i dunno. Maybe it's like a hybrid type of thing.

Again, ths is from an event a year ago. Fair to extrapolate from that? Navel-gazing is victim-free. ;-)

- m

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This I agree with. I don't doubt that when custom MM games become a reality in Destiny, that we will see a fracturing of the community. Throw in the incessant whining that makes up current fandom, and I can see regular MM populations drop significantly. It will be a sad thing if that happens.

Wait, so do you think that pure custom games will happen (in the sense of a private lobby of sorts), or do you think that Bungie would go full on custom game matchmaking? I didn't think Schooly was implying custom MM searches.

What I saw was 6 of us sitting down in front of giant displays. Someone chose 'Salvage' or 'Control' There were, I believe, some minor tweaks allowed, and then we matched up with the 6 players sitting opposite our row of 6 displays. One group was 'in charge' of the settings, the other one wasn't.

So extrapolating from that - it's possible the MM is get a team of 6 together, line up against another team of 6, and then have at it.

So is that a 'private lobby' ? i dunno. Maybe it's like a hybrid type of thing.

Again, ths is from an event a year ago. Fair to extrapolate from that? Navel-gazing is victim-free. ;-)

- m

I think what you describe was the way it was because there were a very small group of people on the planet playing Destiny that day.

Certainly Bungie can offer customs. There's a reason they didn't, I'm sure, just like there's a reason Destiny doesn't have many things other Bungie games have had. I think the plan all along was to add features in future games just as they did with Halo.

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I think what you describe was the way it was because there were a very small group of people on the planet playing Destiny that day.

Uh, no. That wasn't the case at all. There were plenty of folks playing - we're talking during their crunch time to the finish line!

Certainly Bungie can offer customs. There's a reason they didn't, I'm sure, just like there's a reason Destiny doesn't have many things other Bungie games have had. I think the plan all along was to add features in future games just as they did with Halo.

Yes, this I agree with as stated in my original reply.

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On balance, has Destiny's lack of private/custom (multiplayer) games helped or hurt it so far?

How it's helped:

Focus remains on Crucible and default gametypes.

Balance issues are allowed to develop more organically (community reverse engineering efforts have been limited and remain inconclusive). The most recent "Thorny" problem is actually more related to the power of its signature perk in Trials.

Map exploits are essentially nonexistent (could just be really good quality control).

How it's hurt:

Less experienced PvP players don't have that option for learning the game.

We can't run 3v3 Elimination gametype DBO tournaments.

We never get to play the maps that Bungie removed from the default playlists for whatever reason.

How I feel:

I've been okay with it so far, just because there's already so much to do and group PvE kinda scratches a similar itch. ToO being so awesome helps, although I wish there was a way we could do a Playstation vs. Xbox Lighthouse grudge match (not even custom games would allow that).

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I basically agree with squid and would add this:

We don't get to explore the maps outside of a live fire situation.

I completely understood what you meant by "on balance."

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On balance, has Destiny's lack of private/custom (multiplayer) games helped or hurt it so far?

Two issues there: private matches and custom game types.

- I wouldn't mind doing DBO v DBO nights from time to time. The Bungie Bounty game was great because we knew each other. I do enjoy playing with friends more than against friends though, so the lack of private matches hasn't lowered my enjoyment of Destiny's multiplayer in any significant way.

- I do not usually like custom game types. I enjoy playing the base game in multiplayer and often custom game types either skew towards the silly or towards removing game features to the point I'm almost playing a different game whose rules I'm not at all used to. Frankly, it has been nice playing with friends without worrying about disappointing them that I don't want to play their experiential or stripped down game type.

Speaking more generally, I suspect most of Halo's multiplayer population (or that of any other multiplayer game's) played and enjoyed the stock multiplayer experience of that game and only rarely branched out even to first party playlists offering differing experiences. Assuming that's true, then it's likely that the lack of private matches and custom game types has had very little effect on Destiny's multiplayer popularity or longevity. Much much less than the idea of allowing players to bring in vastly different classes and weapons and powerful Supers vs something like Halo's more uniform multiplayer experience.

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- I wouldn't mind doing DBO v DBO nights from time to time. The Bungie Bounty game was great because we knew each other. I do enjoy playing with friends more than against friends though, so the lack of private matches hasn't lowered my enjoyment of Destiny's multiplayer in any significant way.

One of the most recent fun times I've had in Destiny was with Slycrel & Peaks when we played a little elimination, sucked it up & decided to drop into the rumble hopper & were able to kill each other while in party chat. It was loads of fun to be able to fight against the guys I typically fight with. It really reminded me of the days of the Halo LAN Party. Speaking of which, I think I need to figure out how I can organize one w/ some of the guys in my neighborhood. It'd have to be after the kids bedtime... & that'd interfere with the hooting & hollering, hmm...

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I'd say it hasn't really hurt the game from a numbers standpoint, but it's definitely disappointing. Its addition would be beneficial. All of that talk of clans and alliances proved to be basically nothing important, and the lack of customs drops the possibility for clan matches or other types of tournament situations. I'm not too broken up over it, but it would be nice to get some day.

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I think the lack of customs has definitely hurt Destiny and is very unlikely to have helped it. Custom games would bring a lot more interest from two groups who have a limited amount of overlap: people who like competitive gaming and people who like who like playing customs with friends for fun. I can't speak to the former but I'm intimately familiar with the latter and I can say with confidence unless they botched it (heck probably even if they did botch it), Destiny would have a higher overall player count than it does now, and realistically some of that added population would spill over into other modes.

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I want to smash your face in with a flaming hammer, Schooly. I want to swing my trusty Pike around the red dunes and see the terror on Paddy's face when he realizes that nowhere is safe, especially not curled up in his little violet shell. I want to hear the screams of Duncan, Wu, and Malagate over proximity chat as their faces melt off from my perfectly-arced nova blast.

The fact that Destiny doesn't let me murder my friends is almost criminal. I don't believe for a second that Destiny's matchmaking population would suffer if private games were introduced; players are always going to want to pair up with friends against fresh competition. But, as Destiny stands right now, I can't kill Kermit and make him cry.

And I want those delicious tears.

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I want to smash your face in with a flaming hammer, Schooly. I want to swing my trusty Pike around the red dunes and see the terror on Paddy's face when he realizes that nowhere is safe, especially not curled up in his little violet shell. I want to hear the screams of Duncan, Wu, and Malagate over proximity chat as their faces melt off from my perfectly-arced nova blast.

The fact that Destiny doesn't let me murder my friends is almost criminal. I don't believe for a second that Destiny's matchmaking population would suffer if private games were introduced; players are always going to want to pair up with friends against fresh competition. But, as Destiny stands right now, I can't kill Kermit and make him cry.

And I want those delicious tears.

Your words are enough. [SOB!]

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I think maybe you're playing the game wrong. You don't need custom games for almost any of that. I ram my Pikes and Sparrows into teammates all the time and kill them. I Storm First my friends off cliffs and into walls all the time. Hopefully my hammer will work similarly. And the best part? No betrayal penalties. And their tears are delicious.

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Heh, just last night I pushed Lawnmower172 off the Speaker's balcony while he was just innocently looking around for Eris's ship.

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Ah, bluerunner never fails to deliver

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I want to smash your face in with a flaming hammer, Schooly. I want to swing my trusty Pike around the red dunes and see the terror on Paddy's face when he realizes that nowhere is safe, especially not curled up in his little violet shell. I want to hear the screams of Duncan, Wu, and Malagate over proximity chat as their faces melt off from my perfectly-arced nova blast.

The fact that Destiny doesn't let me murder my friends is almost criminal. I don't believe for a second that Destiny's matchmaking population would suffer if private games were introduced; players are always going to want to pair up with friends against fresh competition. But, as Destiny stands right now, I can't kill Kermit and make him cry.

And I want those delicious tears.

Hear, hear!

[image]

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I want to smash your face in with a flaming hammer, Schooly. I want to swing my trusty Pike around the red dunes and see the terror on Paddy's face when he realizes that nowhere is safe, especially not curled up in his little violet shell. I want to hear the screams of Duncan, Wu, and Malagate over proximity chat as their faces melt off from my perfectly-arced nova blast.

The fact that Destiny doesn't let me murder my friends is almost criminal. I don't believe for a second that Destiny's matchmaking population would suffer if private games were introduced; players are always going to want to pair up with friends against fresh competition. But, as Destiny stands right now, I can't kill Kermit and make him cry.

And I want those delicious tears.

Yup. Sitting down with 15 friends and playing Halo remains one of the highlights of my video gaming life. We could balance teams how we wanted, adjust which weapons were available, pick the maps, etc.. My favorite game mode that we invented was "whore" where one player was the sniper whore and got to use sniper rifles, and every other player was on the other team and could use anything but sniper rifles. So much fun! Unless you shared a screen with the sniper whore. Who, obviously, was whoring off your screen to snipe you.

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I want to smash your face in with a flaming hammer, Schooly. I want to swing my trusty Pike around the red dunes and see the terror on Paddy's face when he realizes that nowhere is safe, especially not curled up in his little violet shell. I want to hear the screams of Duncan, Wu, and Malagate over proximity chat as their faces melt off from my perfectly-arced nova blast.

The fact that Destiny doesn't let me murder my friends is almost criminal. I don't believe for a second that Destiny's matchmaking population would suffer if private games were introduced; players are always going to want to pair up with friends against fresh competition. But, as Destiny stands right now, I can't kill Kermit and make him cry.

And I want those delicious tears.

Just do rumble.

- m

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As someone who tries to kill at least one teammate in every raid I run, I would be in for being embarrassed by you guys in custom games.

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Discussion thread: private/custom games (Destiny)