Acceptable Ways to Nerf (the heck out of) Blink (Destiny)
by Ragashingo 
, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 20, 2015, 00:21 (3515 days ago)
edited by Ragashingo, Monday, July 20, 2015, 00:30
(As usual, all ideas stated here are meant for discussion and are not meant to be demands set in stone or anything similar.)
I just watched a guy with a shotgun and Blink kill four of my team, including me, because he appeared in the middle of us from behind cover after I'd hit him with a grenade and basically was not actually shootable until we were all dead. Now, I like Destiny's diverse set of powers but man Blink's ability to not even be within the gameworld as you close on targets is just crazy. We've already heard that Bungie is thinking about the problem so here's a couple of things I think might work:
1. Blink currently lets you do two blinks then has a short cooldown where you can't double jump at all. This makes it very annoying to blink to the top of THAT ONE FREKIN' BOX but rarely comes into play during a Crucible match. Most of the time I'm killed by Blink it's by a single blink then a shotgun... so perhaps scale it back so that's all they get. A single blink followed by a significantly longer cooldown where the Blinker is stuck on the ground. Right now I'd think the cooldown is a second, maybe. So perhaps extend it to three. You want to blink? Go ahead. But get it right!
2. Blinking is a huge advantage just by itself. You can move across fairly large stretches of the map while denying anyone the ability to shoot you so maybe let people blink like the do now but remove their ability to appear right in front of people and instantly shoot them. Just add in a short delay before their weapon is ready. Make it the length of time it takes you to switch to that weapon. Or maybe double or triple the switch time so people don't just roll Single Point Sling shotguns or whatever.
Anyway, over the last few weeks I've been getting very tired of getting killed by people who I cannot shoot (because they are completely behind cover) appearing in front in a way where I literally cannot not combat them. Yes, keep Blink in the game but find some way to make it powerful but fair for all involved. That's my thinking anyway...
(Good work everyone. Problem definitively solved. For my next trick I'm nerfing rocket launchers to heavy machine guns have some sort of chance...)
In defense of Blink
1) Blink isn't the get out of jail free card that you think.
I've been shot out of the air, punched and killed after the animation, killed by supers when I was clearly away, etc. You seen to be vulnerable during blink until the animation completes. So I have blinked away many times only to die when someone punches/rockets/supers where I was a second ago.
2) That cool down is a killer.
I'll admit I blink/shotgun. I also blink in and out of a fight. That cooldown after the 2nd blink can leave you stranded easily in a bad situation where you probably are going to die. It is very easy to blink twice to get to grips with people and find that there were more then you anticipated, and you cant get out.
3) Blink is not precise.
Sure, you can't get on that one box. Or you miss the opening in the wall, and don't even think about going for that platform on Forgotten Shore. Or jumping backwards to escape. If you blink extensively you quickly find that lots of jumps that are taken for granted by other players will leave you stuck on a wall, falling off the side of the map or generally not where you need to be. It is also easy to have blink get stuck on something and have the jump stop mid way.
4) You can't reload
Blink stops all reloading. It is the only jump to do so.
5) It breaks stealth
Yeah, in PVP stealth isn't a big deal, but still it would be nice to stealth and blink into a group so there is almost no chance of them seeing me coming.
6) Blink makes a distinct noise.
A little thing, you always know when someone's using it.
In defense of Blink
by MacAddictXIV 
, Seattle WA, Monday, July 20, 2015, 11:29 (3514 days ago) @ Durandal
1) Blink isn't the get out of jail free card that you think.
I've been shot out of the air, punched and killed after the animation, killed by supers when I was clearly away, etc. You seen to be vulnerable during blink until the animation completes. So I have blinked away many times only to die when someone punches/rockets/supers where I was a second ago.
I will add that no other jump could save you from any of this.
2) That cool down is a killer.
I'll admit I blink/shotgun. I also blink in and out of a fight. That cooldown after the 2nd blink can leave you stranded easily in a bad situation where you probably are going to die. It is very easy to blink twice to get to grips with people and find that there were more then you anticipated, and you cant get out.
If you are in the middle of enemies, no other jump could get you out of there.
3) Blink is not precise.
Sure, you can't get on that one box. Or you miss the opening in the wall, and don't even think about going for that platform on Forgotten Shore. Or jumping backwards to escape. If you blink extensively you quickly find that lots of jumps that are taken for granted by other players will leave you stuck on a wall, falling off the side of the map or generally not where you need to be. It is also easy to have blink get stuck on something and have the jump stop mid way.
Unless they added randomness to the blink, I think that it must just be very fine control.
4) You can't reload
Blink stops all reloading. It is the only jump to do so.
It's also almost instant compared to other jumps. Just reload on the other side?
5) It breaks stealth
Yeah, in PVP stealth isn't a big deal, but still it would be nice to stealth and blink into a group so there is almost no chance of them seeing me coming.
I'm not even going to comment on this...
6) Blink makes a distinct noise.
A little thing, you always know when someone's using it.
Two things. One, all jumps make noise, it's just that blink is more audible. Second, gunfire also makes noise, that doesn't mean you know where it's coming from before it's too late.
I will say right now that I use a Titan and I think it's BS that a Titan has nothing close to an escaping ability like the other two "master" races. The only thing that comes close to escaping/charging fast is shoulder charge and well we all know how THAT goes.
It annoys me to no end how many times I've FoH'ed someone or shot a rocket and had them blink away right before it hits. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that Destiny should have abilities that allow you to escape tight situations if you have the right skill. But I also believe that EVERYONE should be capable of doing that. Because really, all titans have time for in that situation is to drop their gun and say "ahhhh !@#$"
In defense of Blink
Frankly, I don't have much sympathy for Striker Titans in PVP, mostly because Fist of Panic is so forgiving and useful, Lightning grenades are excellent, and Shoulder Rush is just an additional icing on the cake, but that is aside from the point.
It is exceedingly difficult to avoid Novabomb or FoH with blink. The explosions are wide and you really need to blink before the animation has started.
Other jumps can get you out of combat because you can have very fine, on demand control. Control that very hard to pull off with blink. The other jumps can also get you to places more reliably in a firefight, allowing you to be there for critical plays.
Yes, Glide and Lift tempt people to waft around like they are in PVE, which gets them killed quickly. Skilled users quickly do things like jump out over pits to avoid blade dancers, hover up for grenade tosses and get to hard to reach sniper posts.
I saw one enterprising titan hover up over a door. His opponent ran through and shotgunned around the corner assuming the titan was still on the floor.
Triple Jump, Lift and Glide are also much quieter then blink's Whoosh noise, at least to me.
In defense of Blink
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Monday, July 20, 2015, 13:02 (3514 days ago) @ Durandal
Frankly, I don't have much sympathy for Striker Titans in PVP, mostly because Fist of Panic is so forgiving and useful
I will say FoH is the most reliable ultimate when you need to kill guy. Good luck killing more than one though.
Lightning grenades are excellent
I agree with that!
and Shoulder Rush is just an additional icing on the cake
There was a time when I used Shoulder charge in PvP to try and kill people, now I just use it for mobility.
It is exceedingly difficult to avoid Novabomb or FoH with blink. The explosions are wide and you really need to blink before the animation has started.
And that's great! I think that is how it should be. But what I'm saying is, that it's impossible with any titan jump (this is of course based on the fact that the ultimate was a good shot)
Other jumps can get you out of combat because you can have very fine, on demand control. Control that very hard to pull off with blink.
I think we are talking about different types of "combat", I'm saying that, yes other jumps can get you out of combat if you have been hit a couple times, but blink gets you out of combat when you are a couple hits from dead. Many a time I have been ready to finish a blinker, and then POOF they are gone. And the worse part is, I have NO idea where they went.
The other jumps can also get you to places more reliably in a firefight, allowing you to be there for critical plays.
Yes, other jumps are better for tactical positioning.
Yes, Glide and Lift tempt people to waft around like they are in PVE, which gets them killed quickly. Skilled users quickly do things like jump out over pits to avoid blade dancers, hover up for grenade tosses and get to hard to reach sniper posts.I saw one enterprising titan hover up over a door. His opponent ran through and shotgunned around the corner assuming the titan was still on the floor.
In my experiences (and there aren't that many of them), these are somewhat rare circumstances. I feel like the ability to blink would save my titan butt so much more than the ability to hover out in a void from a blade dancer.
Triple Jump, Lift and Glide are also much quieter then blink's Whoosh noise, at least to me.
I agree. But at the same time, how does that actually help? I mean as Raga said, even if you know that a blinker is coming, that doesn't actually help most of the time.
In defense of Blink
"I mean as Raga said, even if you know that a blinker is coming, that doesn't actually help most of the time."
Blink's movement is based on initial vectors, so it is fairly predictable where the person went. Plus there is a the teleport effect which gives you the blink line.
The major concern is when they blink towards you with the shotgun. In this case a counter blink or jump forward, or even a slide, will move you out of the kill zone without them being able to do much about it. A long distance horizontal blink requires you to wait to hit the top of the initial jump. The earlier you press the button, the more verticality you will get on the jump.
The advantage in hearing the blink is that I know someone 1) using blink, 2) just used the first jump. Again, if I know they are coming usually you can predict where they are going to come from and be ready or disengage.
You're doing it wrong.
It annoys me to no end how many times I've FoH'ed someone or shot a rocket and had them blink away right before it hits. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that Destiny should have abilities that allow you to escape tight situations if you have the right skill. But I also believe that EVERYONE should be capable of doing that. Because really, all titans have time for in that situation is to drop their gun and say "ahhhh !@#$"
You're doing it wrong.
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, July 20, 2015, 14:35 (3514 days ago) @ iconicbanana
I did that the other day. There was a guy standing on the back wall behind B on Rusted Lands who was doing a good job of sniping my team so I decided to take him out in spectacular fashion. Approaching from A, I jumped high and activated Death From Above at the same time he fired a rocket. Imagine both of our surprise as I flew THROUGH his rocket and blew him off his little pillar with a mighty, crackling arc explosion! :)
In defense of Blink
by Vortech , A Fourth Wheel, Monday, July 20, 2015, 14:25 (3514 days ago) @ Durandal
1) Blink isn't the get out of jail free card that you think.
I've been shot out of the air, punched and killed after the animation, killed by supers when I was clearly away, etc. You seen to be vulnerable during blink until the animation completes. So I have blinked away many times only to die when someone punches/rockets/supers where I was a second ago.
Lag comes for us all.
2) That cool down is a killer.
I'll admit I blink/shotgun. I also blink in and out of a fight. That cooldown after the 2nd blink can leave you stranded easily in a bad situation where you probably are going to die. It is very easy to blink twice to get to grips with people and find that there were more then you anticipated, and you can't get out.
So, if you are outnumbered 3:1 or worse, it may not be effective.
3) Blink is not precise.
Sure, you can't get on that one box. Or you miss the opening in the wall, and don't even think about going for that platform on Forgotten Shore. Or jumping backwards to escape. If you blink extensively you quickly find that lots of jumps that are taken for granted by other players will leave you stuck on a wall, falling off the side of the map or generally not where you need to be. It is also easy to have blink get stuck on something and have the jump stop mid way.
I have shared this experience. I decided that since others have overcome them the reason is that I suck at using Blink.
4) You can't reload
Blink stops all reloading. It is the only jump to do so.
OK. But, I mean, so does running.
5) It breaks stealth
Yeah, in PVP stealth isn't a big deal, but still it would be nice to stealth and blink into a group so there is almost no chance of them seeing me coming.
That powerful ability that no other class has is temporarily disabled by the other powerful ability.
6) Blink makes a distinct noise.
A little thing, you always know when someone's using it.
Yes. the noise sounds for all the world like "Guardian down!"
I'm having fun, but really it is a very powerful tool that is very hard to counter and all of these things are really things that can be minimized with planning and skill.
Just to clarify, warlocks and hunters both have access to blink. I get that a titan would be a bit upset, but that means roughly two thirds of the population has access to blink, if they want it.
In defense of Blink
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Monday, July 20, 2015, 14:52 (3514 days ago) @ slycrel
Just to clarify, warlocks and hunters both have access to blink. I get that a titan would be a bit upset, but that means roughly two thirds of the population has access to blink, if they want it.
Actually, I started playing with two others, and we all chose different classes. I chose Titan because it fit my style. And I was perfectly okay with it. Then I played PvP and I was mostly annoyed with it, but I thought to myself "You know, it's the hunter, it fits it's play style and I can live with that."
Then I found out that the warlock has blink too. That did not make me happy. It made sense for Warlock to have blink, but I didn't see how it played into warlocks play style (or his stupid OP melee either). But what urks me the most is that Titans don't have any abilities for mobility like that, which really hurts in PvP.
In defense of Blink
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 04:17 (3513 days ago) @ Durandal
1) Blink isn't the get out of jail free card that you think.
I've been shot out of the air, punched and killed after the animation, killed by supers when I was clearly away, etc. You seen to be vulnerable during blink until the animation completes. So I have blinked away many times only to die when someone punches/rockets/supers where I was a second ago.
That's no defense of blink at all. Blink moves you faster than any other double jump. It moves you faster than sprinting away. If you didn't avoid a blast or attack by blinking you simply were not going to avoid it, period.
This does give me a third idea for nerfing blink though. Right now, when a game starts I'll often be running alongside a teammate only to have them blink and pull ahead of me and then on the second blink be significantly ahead of me. Maybe Blink can stay like it is if its speed advantage was taken away. If starting a blink meant you had to wait the amount of time it would have taken you to sprint to your ending point it would be much more avoidable and counterable.
In defense of Blink
So, remove pretty much all reasons to use this movement mode at all? It isn't like anyone uses it outside of PVP as it currently is, and even the PVP usage seems to be lower then slide shotgun users.
Is there a game mode where it is more prevalent? I almost never see anyone doing this in control.
- No text -
Trials and 6 player games.
Interesting. I've never seen it in Trials, but I rarely get past 5 games of Thorn/Spear.
I can see in small games where 1:1 situations are more common that it would be a bigger advantage, but that is perhaps a fraction of the overall game. It just seems entirely absent from my Xbox meta.
In defense of Blink
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 12:45 (3513 days ago) @ Durandal
So, remove pretty much all reasons to use this movement mode at all?
No. Slowing it down would make it more fair by not letting a subset of players move twice as quickly with their double jump. You'd still be able to appear in front of people, you just wouldn't be able to use it to cross open distances right in front of someone's aim without fear of being shot like you very nearly can now. Blink should still be powerful and interesting, but it really is something like a get out of jail free card right now.
I imagine the actual change won't be my number 1, 2 or 3 proposal but will incorporate a little of everything. Something like slowing Blink by .1 seconds to allow a player who reacts quickly to more easily clear the kill zone + a short delay in between blinks so you couldn't transverse a huge amount of open ground but would have to actually be shootable somewhere in the middle + a slight delay before you can fire a weapon after blinking, just long enough to give your enemy the advantage, because you charged recklessly at him, not the other way around.
You'd still be able to simply appear in someone's face from the complete safety of cover. Still be able to move back to cover without having to actually cross that distance. Still be able to confuse enemies at close range. And still move a good bit faster than any other method of moving. All Blink needs is a slight nudge, but keeping it like it is and claiming any change would remove any reason to use it is not, to me at least, acceptable.