You know the moment I'm talking about. Swooping down on to the beach at the beginning of The Silent Cartographer. Watching a pair of friendly Hunters mow down dozens of enemy Brutes as you press towards Delta Halo's control room. Seeing the Forward Unto Dawn rush down to the surface of the Arc and launch a fleet of vehicles out from its loading bay.

Those moments that Bungie is typically so good at creating. The moments where a situation is put in front of you and you say to yourself "ooooooh baby... this is gonna be good!" Moments that get the adrenaline going, and make you look forward to replaying the mission over and over.

I bring this up because it occurred to me last night that as much as I love Destiny, it has very few of these moments for me. It comes close a few times: the first couple times I experienced a Public Event, watching the gate to the Vault of Glass part open. For me, that's pretty much it.

Going in to The Taken King, this is my biggest hope. I hope the story missions and strikes have more of those "ooooh baby" moments that leave a lasting impression. I feel like they go a long way towards making each mission feel unique and special, which would help Destiny's story missions a lot.

What about all if you? Does Destiny already have moments like this for you? If so, which ones? What would you like to see more of in The Taken King?

I agree that the Vault opening was probably the height of my "ohh baby" moments. Some notable ones are going down the hole into the Pit on Crota's End. Initiating the Crota Fight as OK the first time. Other than that not much. I think that I was rather impressed my first time around on alot of things, but I have played everything so much its lost its glammer. Halo Moments were great for me, but I never played through any of the games more than 3 times (excluding Halo: Combat evolved). So in my mind they arent "wore out".

I hope they bring more cinematic moments into the Taken King. I hope that the ghost become more than a digital scanner. And I hope the quest givers are more interactive than : go here and kill things, then come back.

I'm ashamed to admit this now, but I had that feeling the first time I watched the cutscene in the black garden mission. Specifically, when all of the enemies slowly turn and look at you.

I think you're right.

Public events definitely had that feeling the first few times, and still can when they coincide with a pack of Wolves and Urzok, or some similar mega battle.

There definitely aren't many scripted events that really stand out like there were in Halo. The very first mission sets up a very Halo like feel, then it's completely abandoned. We see the Fallen ships jump in and knock shit over, then nothing like that ever happens again. We see Fallen basically crawling out of the walls and ceilings, and then that never happens again (they're forever after just standing around waiting to die).

I think a lot of this has to do with the basic way the game is designed. Missions are far less interesting because they use mostly public spaces, so the encounters aren't very interesting. Also, I feel like less game-changing events can happen because of it's public nature. After you activate the Array in Skywatch, is it always open in Patrol? I actually don't know, as I've never looked, but I suspect it's not. Because of the public areas, they can't change things in interesting ways. They can't blow up a building during a mission, because it's in a public area, and not everyone will have done that mission, so how do they decide which state that building is in? Either way, it won't match for some set of players.

Which, I guess all that is different from you're point. You could still have some cool, "Oh, wow!" moments during missions. The Covenant Fleet filling the sky during Regret on Delta Halo comes to mind, or the Forward Unto Dawn swooping in to drop off Scorpions and Warthogs, as you said.

This kindof relates to a lot of the discussions we've had around here lately. Destiny just needs more things to happen that make you actually care about what's going on, and even simple things like these would go a long way toward keeping people (or me, at least) interested and invested in what's going on.

I loved the first mission on the Ark. It's a very epic setup starting with the cool space battle and then landing the frigate and driving your Scorpion over everything, then fighting that Scarab.

Every replay I challenged myself to arm the human marines better, and keep more of them alive. It was cool that they would retain their weapons, and the brute skimmers, through the map.

Destiny could use some of these more epic setups.

I think we finally get why most of us love the game, but feel it is missing something. There are no set pieces, no "this is going to be badass" moments but those were filled throughout Halo. I might be that you are part of a team, instead of a single super Solider, but we could still get that feel of, "We are going to kick some ass", "we are going to be legend", but those don't happen.

CheapLey said it well, the public spaces limit their ability to do dynamic changing items or set pieces (think hollywood style) in the game.

I too hope they can change that with TTK.

Halo Moments were great for me, but I never played through any of the games more than 3 times (excluding Halo: Combat evolved). So in my mind they arent "wore out".

Three times? noob.

I agree with Cruel, though.

The fight in the story with Primus Sha'aul in Leigon's Keep really made me feel that way. I felt on edge (in a good way) and actually afraid for my guardian!

That fight has stayed with me and figuring it out was fun. I loved the visuals in it and that I was really having to play smart. It's still one of my favorite memories of playing through.

The Archive was another one of those missions that I loved as well and I got a rush from, so many invis-enemies made for a great fight.

The first part of Crota and the last section of Vault of glass always get me as well. I always feel on edge in a great way when playing through them.

Compared to Bioshock though, where I felt on edge the entire game in a good way. I wish it had more of that. I have never played any of the Halo games though so I am unable to compare it to those. Bioshock's all I got for comparison.

CC

Bioshock is a great shooter. The last one was awesome. I wish they would remake it for current Gen though. I am sure the next one will be even better. my only regret is that I never got to play the DLC for Bioshock infinite.

I had an OH SHIT! moment when I blew up megaton, but that's it.

I've never had a this is going to be awesome feeling, I think. In fact, I don't even remember the events about which you speak except for Level 4 from Halo. The thing with seeing forward unto dawn on the ark seems neat, though.

The segment with Breaking Benjamin was awesome, probably my favorite part of the Halo games outside of The Maw run, but I didn't get the feeling beforehand.

During the beta, Public Events were amazing. I remember doing a public event and just as I was about to lose some reinforcements showed up and we completed it. I wish public events scaled their difficult to the level of the players in the area or something so we could recapture that feeling.

What about all if you? Does Destiny already have moments like this for you? If so, which ones? What would you like to see more of in The Taken King?

I honestly think the raid is the only thing that's going to come remotely close to that. But even then, the Vault of Glass was so amazing because it was the first raid ever, and nobody knew what to expect. Nobody knew how raids worked. But now we do. It's in essence, more of the same even if it's different.

I remember the first time I saw David Copperfield in Detroit. It was insane. So much fun and so entertaining, and the tricks were spectacular. I'm not sure how I can describe to you the wonder. So when I go to the Magic Castle, and see literally some of the best magicians in the world perform, even though their tricks and showmanship are of an amazing caliber (perhaps higher), and even though the tricks are different, it wasn't the same as that night in Detroit. Because then I had no idea what to expect. I didn't know how a magic show worked. Now, I have a general sense of how magic is performed, so it's great, and it was really entertaining, but it wasn't awe inspiring…

Good magic is mind blowing in different ways once you get a grip on how the fundamentals work. Like for example, Penn and Teller's bullet catch. It's less amazing going in knowing nothing. It is basically the same as any other trick. But, the more you know the more amazing it gets, because the easy solutions to the illusion are eliminated, unless you know exactly how it is done. Then there is of course, the physical mastery of simple techniques.

You can see it in most other things, too, like rock guitar. For example, I don't see any way Ted Nugent can so the stuff he does on guitar. To me, he is magic. However, when I watch guys like Slash or Paul Gilbert, my mind is completely blown despite me knowing exactly what they're doing because they're so damn good.

I saw an episode of Countdown once where Rachel Riley had to use all the numbers in a crazy way, like 9+75=84+4-6/3*8=688. I know all the arithmetic and the rules, but it's just mind blowing.

It's possible future raids will still be able to blow us away by demonstrating Bungie's potential future mastery of raid building. They may subvert our expectations or craft something very, very good. So I'm hopeful knowing that the more I know, the more they can screw with me.

Also, I feel like less game-changing events can happen because of it's public nature. After you activate the Array in Skywatch, is it always open in Patrol? I actually don't know, as I've never looked, but I suspect it's not. Because of the public areas, they can't change things in interesting ways. They can't blow up a building during a mission, because it's in a public area, and not everyone will have done that mission, so how do they decide which state that building is in? Either way, it won't match for some set of players.

Actually, they can.

Back during the Alpha, I was exploring Old Russia with a friend of mine. We were running through the Wall (near the start of the first mission), just looking around. As we walked through one of the narrow hallways, I light fixture fell from the ceiling in front of me. "Woah... Did you see that?" I said. "What?" Said me friend. Noticing me standing still, staring up at the ceiling, he decided to walk closer. Then, as he arrived next to me, I heard him say "woah" as the light fixture fell in front of him. This little environmental event was set to occur whenever a player reach that point in the hallway... but my friend didn't see it happen to me, and I didn't see it happen to him.

This was when I realized that even though we were standing side by side, we were not looking at the same instance of the game world. The enemies were shared between us, but the environment was capable of being shown in different states. This means Bungie actually could have the array remain open for players who have completed that story mission, while still having it appear closed for those who haven't, even if they're in the same public space together.

I'm ashamed to admit this now, but I had that feeling the first time I watched the cutscene in the black garden mission. Specifically, when all of the enemies slowly turn and look at you.

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I saw an episode of Countdown once where Rachel Riley had to use all the numbers in a crazy way, like 9+75=84+4-6/3*8=688. I know all the arithmetic and the rules, but it's just mind blowing.

Those games can be Very hard to follow.

The truth about Destiny is that bungie wanted to make the kind of highly directed crafted FPS experience that worked for an 8 hour linear experience, and believed that their excellent AI and skulls would give the game enough variety and dynamism to create something deeply repayable if people only had some carrot to go try it out.

It works... Kind of? I think when you get in a co-op game with an interesting mix of skulls, powers, and a decent challenge level those systems start to come out. But when you are running vanilla strike playlists it is just straight repetitive.

The lack of wow moments also comes from this. Spectacle loses it's effectiveness pretty rapidly, so I think Bungie tried to avoid it and favored fun encounters that could spiral into different directions. (Once again, the success is pretty mixed here).

Well, that's pretty neat then! I honestly did not know that; I just assumed it wouldn't be possible, or be difficult enough as to not bother.

You know the moment I'm talking about. Swooping down on to the beach at the beginning of The Silent Cartographer. Watching a pair of friendly Hunters mow down dozens of enemy Brutes as you press towards Delta Halo's control room. Seeing the Forward Unto Dawn rush down to the surface of the Arc and launch a fleet of vehicles out from its loading bay.

Those moments that Bungie is typically so good at creating. The moments where a situation is put in front of you and you say to yourself "ooooooh baby... this is gonna be good!" Moments that get the adrenaline going, and make you look forward to replaying the mission over and over.

I bring this up because it occurred to me last night that as much as I love Destiny, it has very few of these moments for me. It comes close a few times: the first couple times I experienced a Public Event, watching the gate to the Vault of Glass part open. For me, that's pretty much it.

Going in to The Taken King, this is my biggest hope. I hope the story missions and strikes have more of those "ooooh baby" moments that leave a lasting impression. I feel like they go a long way towards making each mission feel unique and special, which would help Destiny's story missions a lot.

What about all if you? Does Destiny already have moments like this for you? If so, which ones? What would you like to see more of in The Taken King?

For me, it was when we first stepped in the Endless Steps ring, Marty Music started playing, and the Gate Lord assembled in front of us. That was great.

Also, picking up the Sword of Crota for the first time and going to town on the Hive.

And lastly, when we first dropped into the Abyss, and rushed blindly into the darkness as a group, with no idea of what we were doing... Especially the epic holdout at the end of the abyss (that is now bypassed by the couple of folks on the rocks).

Good stuff, I hope TTK has more.

In fact, nobody really experiences the same game due to latency, each game console is running its own simulation with updates/corrections coming from the host. But yeah, they most certainly should be able to have something that in inaccessible to players and doesn't impact gameplay (like the last array) be different between players.

... I just noticed your avatar is a photo if Taylor Swift and now I want to be your best friend :)

Heh, I love Taylor Swift.

Even more ashamed now.

But I've killed most of my good memories by playing everything over and over again, as fast as possible, to try to get experience, ascendant mats, bounty stats, etc.

Thinking back... I remember the first time I unlocked my speeder bike. The archive was creepy and great. The exclusion zone was very memorable when the first cabal jumped toward me (man did I kill that memory with repetition). Killing those statues, whatever they were, at the end of the campaign was awesome. Each of the original game strikes was fantastic the first time I did them. Almost everything about the Vault and Crota was memorable. Soloing the Crota bridge and abyss on hard will be burned in my brain forever. Lamp cannon!

Nothing else in the expansions has been memorable, I think because I was already all geared up. TDB strike nightfall took about 10 minutes the first time. There were no new enemy types to figure out. Nothing unusual at all, really.

Same. It used to be something people would look at you weird for but that seems to be changing, a little.

Now I have an even deeper understanding of what's lacking in my experience, and it'll make me sad. So, thanks for that. ;)

Seriously, though, you're right. My guess is that Bungie knows this, and will do more of that sort of thing in the sequel(s). Probably they'll try for it a bit in current Destiny, but my guess is that they've already done what's technically feasible.

One sub-thread went into the possibility of displaying the world differently for different players. It should be doable, at least for non-solid, non-interactive things like the array. Obviously doing it with level geometry would cause major problems, but I don't think any of that really changes anyway, other than doors opening and closing.

During the beta, Public Events were amazing. I remember doing a public event and just as I was about to lose some reinforcements showed up and we completed it. I wish public events scaled their difficult to the level of the players in the area or something so we could recapture that feeling.

Yes, that would be good. I'm not sure how it would be handled, exactly, but it sucks being able to just steamroll it by yourself. The "eliminate the target" public events actually do a pretty good job of thwarting you, at least when they have shields. The shields on those guys come back so fast that it is genuinely difficult to take them down on your own, only because their shields are back by the time you reload. Those usually require 2 people in my experience.

Opening Cinematic
Gate Lord
The last Arrary

First VoG runthrough
First abyss run through

One thing that i've noticed is that in Halo, i would methodically kill every single enemy (in some instances you had to). I played the hell outta Silent Cartographer, AOTCR, The Maw, Delta Halo, Regret, Uprising, High Charity, The Great Journey, Sierra 117, Tsavo Highway, The Ark, The Covenant and Halo. In destiny, i look for the quickest way through b/c i want to get my XP/rewards and move onto the next activity. I don't care to replay any of the missions unless there is a bounty associated with them, or i need to glimmer farm. I'd rather play End-game content and Iron Banner.

Heh, I love Taylor Swift.

Not like I do.

Okay, that was creepy.

I started thinking about this and realized there are many moments that made an impression on me. Maybe not all of these are quite “Wow,” but you started me down the path of remembering, and these remain indelible.

• Joining Beorn in the Cosmodrome during the alpha (you didn’t need to go through the initial wake up sequence), and feeling like my eyes would bleed because everything looked so great.
  
• Coming through the wall the first time and seeing that flair shoot up, and hearing and seeing the Ketch pop in. (Wish I could play that again. :-()
  
• The first time I faced a Devil Walker. The first time I took one down by myself.
  
• Seeing the array unfold—that music!
  
• Lance Reddick’s intros still work for me, and one particular outro—“They always do.”
  
• The first time Sepiks Prime killed me with a proximity attack.
  
• Getting ambushed by invisibles on that “safe” balcony in the Refinery.
  
• Getting ambushed by pikes in general.
  
• Getting last second help with a Kill the Target public event is still killer.
  
• My first wolves public event (I failed). They’re tough!
  
• The first time I figured out the scorch cannon charge mechanic. They’re not so tough!
  
• The craziness that is Skywatch. Urzok the impenetrable.
  
• Taking in the scenery on the Moon and Venus for the first time. Mars less so during the day, but at night, it’s one of favorite locations.
  
• Turning on the lights for the accelerator on the moon.
  
• Unleashing the Hive. The chains breaking off the door.
  
• Killing Phogoth for the first time, when we all ran around like mad.
  
• Taking up the sword the first time. Taking up the sword for the first time in the Cosmodrome.
  
• The battle after which you retrieve the eyes. (Wish I could play that again. :-()
  
• Seeing the orbs appear in the library before the Vex materialize for the first time. First insta-death by minotaur.
  
• The way the foliage shakes as the Archive doors open, and descending that staircase. Felt similarly the first time I entered Rasputin’s bunker. The music is perfect.
  
• The entire Endless Steps battle.
  
• The first cutscene in the Reef. This was the peak of my hope for the story. (Wish I could play that again. :-()
  
• The height of the battle after which you retrieve the eyes. (Wish I could play that again. :-()
  
• The Dying Mind final battle. Maybe it’s the novelty because I’ve only played it a handful of times, but that’s in part because people always quit and I don’t want to do it alone.
  
• Unlocking the constellation map during the Black Garden story. The intro and outro to the Black Garden final battle. That music!
  
• Getting handed the Stranger’s rifle and then shooting it for the first time. It was a revelation compared the other guns I had then.
  
• Skolas’ first appearance in that first HoW story mission.
  
• Fighting my way into Draksis’ and Taniks’ ships. Always get a bit of that Truth and Reconciliation vibe.
  
• Fighting invisible vandals outside the wall.
  
• Using the drop mines on a heavy pike for the first time.
  
• Pre-HoW: breaking through the gate and revisiting our “birthplace” outside the wall. Getting to the Terminus (with the current geometry) and climbing up to the playable space. I love that actual mission, too.
  
• Most boss mechanics in the POE have impressed me.
  
• The sound design is magnificent. Once recently I was very tired and just shut my eyes for a few seconds. I realized I could tell exactly what was happening just by sound.
  
• Nearly every week I find a cave or space I haven't seen yet, which is kind of stunning at this point.
  
• Virtually every sequence of the raids provided “Wow” moments for me the first time through. I still find them exciting.
  

All in all, I think I like this game. :-)

I'll admit to being a newish fan. I've always thought she had a great voice, I'm just not a huge country fan, so I never listened to her much.

1989, however, is my favorite album of the last few years. And that's saying something, as my all time favorite band, Modest Mouse, recently released their first album in nearly a decade (and it's fantastic!).

She seems like such a legitimately amazing, generous person, and really seems to give a lot back to her fans, and I appreciate that from artists I like.

Plus, I mean, just look at her. Being that cute shouldn't even be legal.

One thing that i've noticed is that in Halo, i would methodically kill every single enemy (in some instances you had to). I played the hell outta Silent Cartographer, AOTCR, The Maw, Delta Halo, Regret, Uprising, High Charity, The Great Journey, Sierra 117, Tsavo Highway, The Ark, The Covenant and Halo. In destiny, i look for the quickest way through b/c i want to get my XP/rewards and move onto the next activity. I don't care to replay any of the missions unless there is a bounty associated with them, or i need to glimmer farm. I'd rather play End-game content and Iron Banner.

I think this is Destiny's biggest problem. I would love to replay missions, but the incentive isn't there, other than the Daily. For me, none of the missions were really memorably enough to warrant playing through them again. You get the same scenarios just doing Patrol for the most part.

I'm not sure how they would accomplish it, but Destiny needs a more Halo-like campaign. Keep the public patrol areas, and let the missions move through some of those areas, but have more mission exclusive areas so they can design better encounters, rather than just having random groups of enemies standing around and kicking the dirt until you show up.

[*]The craziness that is Skywatch. Urzok the impenetrable.

I remember the first time I went to take him on, I was by myself, and I thought nothing of it. After all, it's just a patrol mode enemy, right? I even laughed when "Fall before Urzok, the hated" came up.

Cut to my death mere moments later...

Before I clicked I thought you might be talking about:

:p

I still love it when a Ketch flies overhead. It makes you realize how legitimately big they are. Sometimes just looking out over a landscape to the skybox does that for me as well. Destiny is such the perfect evolution of the Bungie/Halo art style. And they still make the best skyboxes ever.

Even more ashamed now.

Don't be. I like that mission, too.

Even more ashamed now.

I don't know why. Crow's awesome.

I'll admit to being a newish fan. I've always thought she had a great voice, I'm just not a huge country fan, so I never listened to her much.

1989, however, is my favorite album of the last few years. And that's saying something, as my all time favorite band, Modest Mouse, recently released their first album in nearly a decade (and it's fantastic!).

She seems like such a legitimately amazing, generous person, and really seems to give a lot back to her fans, and I appreciate that from artists I like.

Plus, I mean, just look at her. Being that cute shouldn't even be legal.

I'd never heard any of her songs until 1989, and it blew me away. I'm a sucker for a good, old-fashioned pop song, and hers are some of the best out there right now IMO. And yes, the cute-factor doesn't hurt either :)

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Amazing how well this has aged.

Also the first time I used Nighthawk to down an ultra.
First time I beat VoG and Crota, figuring it out ourselves.