Avatar

Trials Stats. (Destiny)

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 07:35 (3334 days ago)

Big changes this week to stats:

1. Removal of Bungie's ranking i.e. Combat Rating, History page, and Normalization are now hidden.
2. Reorganization of the columns on the sheet for easier data entry.
3. 3 new columns added. RD/G, Support Index, and RRR
4. Added 9 new GT's.

RD/G is the Revive Differential per game. It's basically the spread of revives. If your number is +1 then you revived 1 more than you were revived.

Support index has been listed for a while but now it's calculated. This is a representation of how well you support your team through reviving, assisting in kills, creating orbs, and staying alive.

Now we have an official Red Robber Ranking (TM'd by Xenos, he takes 25% of my earnings). Your RRR is a combination of your Power Index and Support Index weighted more heavily to the PI. I think PI does a better job of "ranking" players based on their real winning potential but I wanted a way to give credit to those who keep their Ringers alive.

For the first time.... The official DBO Triple R Top 5.

1. Cyber-KN
2. erin_n_a
3. squidNH3
4. munky-058
5. cruelLEGACEY

We have a new member in our Top 5 Power Rankings as well. Let's congratulate erin_n_a for grabbing the #2 spot as a new entry.

*****Sheet is set to EDIT so you may all sort without getting the strange errors******
Be careful not to change any of the data. Don't fret if you do though. You can always hit the undo button. I also have a backup copy as well. Email me if the sheet seems off or comment below and I'll compare it to my backup to double check.

Click here to see the new ToO stats.

I'll be updating the other stat sheets in the future and adding more GT's as well. Fingers are crossed that we can figure out how to auto update these things straight from bungie's API (points at Beorn :). If anyone can help implement this or would like to take over/develope a sheet, let me know. Community collaboration is a good thing.

Future updates will include a tab for stats from popular community members, and I'm thinking of adding a column to check off when a GT has made it to the lighthouse. I'd like to see that all names eventually get a check :)

Finally, If we can get 2 more GT's the sheet will be at an even 50. Let me know if you are interested in stats and I'll add you as soon as I can. If you want to be removed, I can do that to.

Good Stats.

by TheeChaos @, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 09:26 (3334 days ago) @ red robber

I always look forward to how I match up. Looks Like missing a couple weeks of Trials hasnt helped me much.

Time to get to work!

Avatar

Good Stats.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:53 (3334 days ago) @ TheeChaos

I always look forward to how I match up. Looks Like missing a couple weeks of Trials hasnt helped me much.

Time to get to work!

Want to dive back in on saturday night?

Sounds good

by TheeChaos @, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:54 (3334 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I really wish there were more incentive to run it now that I have pretty much everything I want.

Avatar

Here's some incentive for you...

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:56 (3334 days ago) @ TheeChaos

It's awesome :D

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 12:57 (3334 days ago) @ red robber

Big changes this week to stats:

1. Removal of Bungie's ranking i.e. Combat Rating,

NOOOOOO! I had the top combat rating! ;p


Seriously though, this is fantastic. Really appreciate all the time you've put in to this, and the frequent updates. Thanks!

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 13:30 (3334 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Big changes this week to stats:

1. Removal of Bungie's ranking i.e. Combat Rating,


NOOOOOO! I had the top combat rating! ;p


Seriously though, this is fantastic. Really appreciate all the time you've put in to this, and the frequent updates. Thanks!

It was a tricky decision to remove Combat Rating, but with the addition of two new ranking/indexes, it felt appropriate. Also, even having one less data entry per GT speeds up the process of updating.

Kudos on being in the top 5 of RRR! Even though your PI fell due to some new PS power players, you showed up by supporting your team. This is why I like the RRR. Not only do you have the ability massacre enemies, but you are thoughtful enough to keep your buddies in the fight as well.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:44 (3334 days ago) @ red robber

Big changes this week to stats:

1. Removal of Bungie's ranking i.e. Combat Rating,


NOOOOOO! I had the top combat rating! ;p


Seriously though, this is fantastic. Really appreciate all the time you've put in to this, and the frequent updates. Thanks!


It was a tricky decision to remove Combat Rating, but with the addition of two new ranking/indexes, it felt appropriate. Also, even having one less data entry per GT speeds up the process of updating.


I was just teasing about the combat rating :) I think your decision makes perfect sense given how ambiguous Bungie's combat rating is (we don't know exactly how they determine the rating).

Kudos on being in the top 5 of RRR! Even though your PI fell due to some new PS power players, you showed up by supporting your team. This is why I like the RRR. Not only do you have the ability massacre enemies, but you are thoughtful enough to keep your buddies in the fight as well.

Thanks!

Just a thought though... I think there might be something that the current stat breakdown doesn't capture. This came up briefly in conversation a couple week's ago, while looking specifically at Ottermack's stats. Based on the current rankings, his Support rating is quite a bit lower than I would have expected. It appears to be because he is revived more often than he revives his teammates (please correct me if I'm wrong). Cody pointed out a few weeks ago that the numbers here can be misleading, and I agree. As someone who plays with Ottermack on a regular basis, I think he is extremely good at positioning himself such that if he does go down, he is within revive-range of his teammates. In other words, he doesn't run off and die in a spot where we can't get to him and bring him back. That is something that I personally am not always so good at. So because I am more likely to die in impossible-to-reach places, Ottermack can't revive me as often as I revive him, which in turn harms his support rating.

I have no idea if this is possible to capture using statistics... what do you think?

Trials Stats.

by TheeChaos @, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:46 (3334 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I dont think this is a possible stat to capture. I completely understand what youre saying though. These are just ratings. But there are plenty of good PVP players here that are low on the totem pole for different reasons.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:48 (3334 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Just a thought though... I think there might be something that the current stat breakdown doesn't capture. This came up briefly in conversation a couple week's ago, while looking specifically at Ottermack's stats. Based on the current rankings, his Support rating is quite a bit lower than I would have expected. It appears to be because he is revived more often than he revives his teammates (please correct me if I'm wrong). Cody pointed out a few weeks ago that the numbers here can be misleading, and I agree. As someone who plays with Ottermack on a regular basis, I think he is extremely good at positioning himself such that if he does go down, he is within revive-range of his teammates. In other words, he doesn't run off and die in a spot where we can't get to him and bring him back. That is something that I personally am not always so good at. So because I am more likely to die in impossible-to-reach places, Ottermack can't revive me as often as I revive him, which in turn harms his support rating.

I have no idea if this is possible to capture using statistics... what do you think?

This is why Halo (along with other FPSes) never really provided ranked objective games. It's almost impossible to take everything into account. A good example is playing bait. You may not even get an assist or a kill, but just your presence on an enemy's radar in a flanking position can help your teammates out. Somethings can't be quantified, only qualified.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:50 (3334 days ago) @ Xenos

Just a thought though... I think there might be something that the current stat breakdown doesn't capture. This came up briefly in conversation a couple week's ago, while looking specifically at Ottermack's stats. Based on the current rankings, his Support rating is quite a bit lower than I would have expected. It appears to be because he is revived more often than he revives his teammates (please correct me if I'm wrong). Cody pointed out a few weeks ago that the numbers here can be misleading, and I agree. As someone who plays with Ottermack on a regular basis, I think he is extremely good at positioning himself such that if he does go down, he is within revive-range of his teammates. In other words, he doesn't run off and die in a spot where we can't get to him and bring him back. That is something that I personally am not always so good at. So because I am more likely to die in impossible-to-reach places, Ottermack can't revive me as often as I revive him, which in turn harms his support rating.

I have no idea if this is possible to capture using statistics... what do you think?


This is why Halo (along with other FPSes) never really provided ranked objective games. It's almost impossible to take everything into account. A good example is playing bait. You may not even get an assist or a kill, but just your presence on an enemy's radar in a flanking position can help your teammates out. Somethings can't be quantified, only qualified.

They can be quantified, in a manner of speaking... just as Ottermack how many Adept trials weapons he has ;)

Jokes aside, very good point. Numbers can't always paint the entire picture.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, August 13, 2015, 02:11 (3333 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by Cody Miller, Thursday, August 13, 2015, 02:17

Jokes aside, very good point. Numbers can't always paint the entire picture.

It can give you a good picture if you look just at wins. The idea behind moneyball was essentially "if this player is on the team, how much more would the team win?" You could then figure out, for example, if two players clashed, So maybe Jim helps his team win more, except when he's playing with Bob. Compile it all down, and you can figure out who you'd want to hire to make a team to win the most games.

You might have two great players, who just don't work well together because they are both aggressive and can't support each other when one dies. Conversely, you could have a player who doesn't look amazing on his own, but pairs well with a player mentioned in the previous sentence.

That's what the algorithm finds out. I wish I knew more about the actual math.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 19:30 (3334 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY


Just a thought though... I think there might be something that the current stat breakdown doesn't capture. This came up briefly in conversation a couple week's ago, while looking specifically at Ottermack's stats. Based on the current rankings, his Support rating is quite a bit lower than I would have expected. It appears to be because he is revived more often than he revives his teammates (please correct me if I'm wrong). Cody pointed out a few weeks ago that the numbers here can be misleading, and I agree. As someone who plays with Ottermack on a regular basis, I think he is extremely good at positioning himself such that if he does go down, he is within revive-range of his teammates. In other words, he doesn't run off and die in a spot where we can't get to him and bring him back. That is something that I personally am not always so good at. So because I am more likely to die in impossible-to-reach places, Ottermack can't revive me as often as I revive him, which in turn harms his support rating.

I have no idea if this is possible to capture using statistics... what do you think?

I agree the support rating is a little tricky. We all know reviving is an important part of team play, but how does that equate to success statistically? I'm not really sure. One could argue that someone who has "better revival statistics" is better at supporting his team by keeping his teammates alive. I'd argue that higher revivals per game and a higher RD/G means that person is spending more time reviving his teammates that are dying more often, which also leads him to being out of the fight more often. It may also mean that he is not engaging the enemy enough and is simply out of the fight, leaving his teammates in 1 or 2v3 scenarios.

If we look at who ottermack has played with, say you and TheeChaos, you have the highest Avg Life and Chaos is above average. Otters numbers could simply be a result of playing with teammates that simply don't die, thus giving him less opportunity to revive them. He also is a power player, he may be able to handle more kills in a fight without the immediate need of an extra teammate.

I'm glad you asked though, because my formulas reflect my opinions only :) I chose the 5 following categories for the support index. Assists/G, Orbs/G, Revives/G, RD/G, and Avg Lifespan. I think these are the best a determining how helpful a teammate is but at the same time not including how "good" they are at killing things. Is there anything you would add/replace/remove? I thought about removing R/G and replacing it with Deaths/G or KD spread/G. Let me know, I truly welcome your thoughts and opinions and I'm glad you are enjoying the stats.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, August 13, 2015, 10:11 (3333 days ago) @ red robber


Just a thought though... I think there might be something that the current stat breakdown doesn't capture. This came up briefly in conversation a couple week's ago, while looking specifically at Ottermack's stats. Based on the current rankings, his Support rating is quite a bit lower than I would have expected. It appears to be because he is revived more often than he revives his teammates (please correct me if I'm wrong). Cody pointed out a few weeks ago that the numbers here can be misleading, and I agree. As someone who plays with Ottermack on a regular basis, I think he is extremely good at positioning himself such that if he does go down, he is within revive-range of his teammates. In other words, he doesn't run off and die in a spot where we can't get to him and bring him back. That is something that I personally am not always so good at. So because I am more likely to die in impossible-to-reach places, Ottermack can't revive me as often as I revive him, which in turn harms his support rating.

I have no idea if this is possible to capture using statistics... what do you think?


I agree the support rating is a little tricky. We all know reviving is an important part of team play, but how does that equate to success statistically? I'm not really sure. One could argue that someone who has "better revival statistics" is better at supporting his team by keeping his teammates alive. I'd argue that higher revivals per game and a higher RD/G means that person is spending more time reviving his teammates that are dying more often, which also leads him to being out of the fight more often. It may also mean that he is not engaging the enemy enough and is simply out of the fight, leaving his teammates in 1 or 2v3 scenarios.

If we look at who ottermack has played with, say you and TheeChaos, you have the highest Avg Life and Chaos is above average. Otters numbers could simply be a result of playing with teammates that simply don't die, thus giving him less opportunity to revive them. He also is a power player, he may be able to handle more kills in a fight without the immediate need of an extra teammate.

I'm glad you asked though, because my formulas reflect my opinions only :) I chose the 5 following categories for the support index. Assists/G, Orbs/G, Revives/G, RD/G, and Avg Lifespan. I think these are the best a determining how helpful a teammate is but at the same time not including how "good" they are at killing things. Is there anything you would add/replace/remove? I thought about removing R/G and replacing it with Deaths/G or KD spread/G. Let me know, I truly welcome your thoughts and opinions and I'm glad you are enjoying the stats.

I really can't offer any constructive suggestions on how to tweak your formula, or if you even should. You've got a far better handle on this stuff than I do :) I enjoy statistics, but I don't understand them enough to have any clue about putting together a rating formula. I was just pointing out an edge-case scenario that might not be reflected by statistics, but as you and others have pointed out, there are plenty of nuances that don't always show up in the numbers.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by squidnh3, Thursday, August 13, 2015, 20:32 (3333 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I really find these stats interesting and love that Red Robber puts his time into these (and certainly have got some enjoyment out of my high rating), but I think to really nail down how a player contributes to his team we'd need some more advanced statistics. Think about baseball; it started out a long time ago, with simple things like batting average, ERA, whatever. Now it's progressed to things like WAR (wins over replacement) and BABIP (batting average on balls in play) which can be used to predict future player performance.

A couple of things that come to mind would be K/D in close matches (where both teams win at least 2 rounds), K/D in winning rounds vs. K/D in losing rounds, round winning percentage vs. round losing percentage on a round in which you die, some way of discounting garbage time revives (which are still sometimes important if the other team has Sunsingers).

Obviously those things would require some more advanced analysis and data collection method (stats API?). I don't even know if that type of data is even available.

Not even related to Trials, a stat that would be nice to have in normal Crucible would be a point spread (points awarded vs. points given to the other team). Especially in Control, K/D only tells some of the story: kills when you control 2 zones are worth more, and deaths when the other team controls 2 zones are worse. Getting killed by 2 players is 50% worse than getting killed by 1, due to the additional 50 points for the assist.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Thursday, August 13, 2015, 22:56 (3333 days ago) @ squidnh3

I really find these stats interesting and love that Red Robber puts his time into these (and certainly have got some enjoyment out of my high rating), but I think to really nail down how a player contributes to his team we'd need some more advanced statistics. Think about baseball; it started out a long time ago, with simple things like batting average, ERA, whatever. Now it's progressed to things like WAR (wins over replacement) and BABIP (batting average on balls in play) which can be used to predict future player performance.

A couple of things that come to mind would be K/D in close matches (where both teams win at least 2 rounds), K/D in winning rounds vs. K/D in losing rounds, round winning percentage vs. round losing percentage on a round in which you die, some way of discounting garbage time revives (which are still sometimes important if the other team has Sunsingers).

Obviously those things would require some more advanced analysis and data collection method (stats API?). I don't even know if that type of data is even available.

Not even related to Trials, a stat that would be nice to have in normal Crucible would be a point spread (points awarded vs. points given to the other team). Especially in Control, K/D only tells some of the story: kills when you control 2 zones are worth more, and deaths when the other team controls 2 zones are worse. Getting killed by 2 players is 50% worse than getting killed by 1, due to the additional 50 points for the assist.

This gives me some ideas for the points based games. Score per minute played, Score per kill. I did develop a K/G vs D/G spread for one of the gametypes. It really shows you how much you are adding to the team. If your spread is +4 then at a minimum you provided 4 more kills which is a minimum of 400 more points. If -1 then you gave away 100 points min to the other team. Unfortunately there are so many scenarios and additional points, it's tough to calculate them all into a usable rating. If you have any ideas, let me know and maybe we can work out some new stats!

Trials Stats.

by TheeChaos @, Friday, August 14, 2015, 10:05 (3332 days ago) @ red robber

If we look at who ottermack has played with, say you and TheeChaos, you have the highest Avg Life and Chaos is above average.

Gee,

Thanks =[

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 13:03 (3334 days ago) @ red robber

For the first time.... The official DBO Triple R Top 5.

1. Cyber-KN
2. erin_n_a
3. squidNH3
4. munky-058
5. cruelLEGACEY

We have a new member in our Top 5 Power Rankings as well. Let's congratulate erin_n_a for grabbing the #2 spot as a new entry.


[image]

Bump ME off the top three, will ya?

Though I have neglected Trials on PS4 for a few weeks now...

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 13:22 (3334 days ago) @ Korny

For the first time.... The official DBO Triple R Top 5.

1. Cyber-KN
2. erin_n_a
3. squidNH3
4. munky-058
5. cruelLEGACEY

We have a new member in our Top 5 Power Rankings as well. Let's congratulate erin_n_a for grabbing the #2 spot as a new entry.

[image]

Bump ME off the top three, will ya?

Though I have neglected Trials on PS4 for a few weeks now...

and you dropped to 5 in the Power Index. You may be in danger of falling out all together, just becoming a ghost of rankings past. Your Xbox tag was still able to climb 1 spot in PI even with the addition of some new power players on the PS side, Good job. I challenge you to get both in the top five of either RRR or PI.

Avatar

Trials Stats.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:52 (3334 days ago) @ Korny

For the first time.... The official DBO Triple R Top 5.

1. Cyber-KN
2. erin_n_a
3. squidNH3
4. munky-058
5. cruelLEGACEY

We have a new member in our Top 5 Power Rankings as well. Let's congratulate erin_n_a for grabbing the #2 spot as a new entry.

[image]

Bump ME off the top three, will ya?

Though I have neglected Trials on PS4 for a few weeks now...


My messenger and I are coming for you ;)

What is the source of that image?

by marmot 1333 @, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 20:27 (3334 days ago) @ Korny

When I google image search, it tells me "one direction funny tumblr"

That... can't be it, right?

Avatar

What is the source of that image?

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 21:09 (3334 days ago) @ marmot 1333

When I google image search, it tells me "one direction funny tumblr"

That... can't be it, right?

Mean Girls. Watch it.

Watch it and cry about what Lindsay Lohan could have become. Say no to drugs, kids!

Avatar

#34 on Power Index, #6 on Support Index

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 13:43 (3334 days ago) @ red robber

I think I need to work on being a little more aggressive, haha.

Avatar

#44 on Power Index, #36 on Support Index

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 13:49 (3334 days ago) @ Xenos

I think I need to work on being a little more aggressive, haha.

I think I need to work on being a better player...

Avatar

Wait, what?

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:53 (3334 days ago) @ red robber

For the first time.... The official DBO Triple R Top 5.

1. Cyber-KN
2. erin_n_a
3. squidNH3
4. munky-058
5. cruelLEGACEY

I guess my unintentional strategy of not playing Trials is paying off :P

HAHA

by TheeChaos @, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:55 (3334 days ago) @ CyberKN

Definitely was wondering about that. how to weigh people with less games. But statistically you are a beast!!!!

Avatar

Wait, what?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 14:55 (3334 days ago) @ CyberKN

For the first time.... The official DBO Triple R Top 5.

1. Cyber-KN
2. erin_n_a
3. squidNH3
4. munky-058
5. cruelLEGACEY


I guess my unintentional strategy of not playing Trials is paying off :P

Retire a champion ;)

Squid must run me through Trials now. um it's official?

by ChrisTheeCrappy, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 15:38 (3334 days ago) @ red robber

- No text -

Avatar

Note to self: Sabotage Squid by letting him get killed.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Wednesday, August 12, 2015, 15:41 (3334 days ago) @ ChrisTheeCrappy

- No text -

Avatar

Squid must run me through Trials now. um it's official?

by squidnh3, Thursday, August 13, 2015, 20:13 (3333 days ago) @ ChrisTheeCrappy

It's been a while since we played together. I'll be looking to make some runs this weekend, but no promises. My stats belie my anti-clutch tendencies (just ask Korny/Speed about my use of Radiance).

Back to the forum index
RSS Feed of thread