Patrol sucks for beginners now.

So I finally got Mrs. BeardFade, aka AsheVeil to start playing Destiny. Only took the prodding of three Guardians to make it happen :). But, because the Wolves are out and hunting, it's nearly impossible for her to get to the Divide. I really think they should have thought a bit more about the location of the House of Wolves enemies on patrol.

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So I finally got Mrs. BeardFade, aka AsheVeil to start playing Destiny. Only took the prodding of three Guardians to make it happen :). But, because the Wolves are out and hunting, it's nearly impossible for her to get to the Divide. I really think they should have thought a bit more about the location of the House of Wolves enemies on patrol.

Yeah, that guy is poorly placed.

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Disagree.

Remember when Destiny launched (or even during the beta) and you went exploring the public areas and running into enemies who were leveled "??" and your weapons did nothing (nothing!) to them?

I miss that.

I miss that challenge.

That feeling of exploration, being in a new area, seeing a chest (or thinking there might be a chest) and having to go against enemies who you can't scratch, who can insta-kill you at the slightest slip up.

Past level 20, patrol became a cake walk...especially once you located all the gold chests (i miss those too, not the crap they contained, just finding them)

When the Wolves public events first started, and I got killed I was genuinely surprised, because the enemies were leveled higher than me for the first time since the game launched and in a non-raid experience to boot!

Just my thoughts. I must like punishing myself :/

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And not being able to get to areas to do new patrol missions hampers her ability to learn the game. She can avoid them in an area, you can't avoid them in a bottle neck.

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And not being able to get to areas to do new patrol missions hampers her ability to learn the game. She can avoid them in an area, you can't avoid them in a bottle neck.

If you ride your sparrow into that area (from the starting area), you can shoot straight to the back, then along the platform, and actually avoid all contact with enemies in that section. The Queensbreaker's Guard (or whatever he's called) doesn't even make it fully into the room before you're through.

Not ideal, I know - but I feel your pain, and that's how I got my baby Warlock through there when I was leveling him.

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And not being able to get to areas to do new patrol missions hampers her ability to learn the game. She can avoid them in an area, you can't avoid them in a bottle neck.

If you ride your sparrow into that area (from the starting area), you can shoot straight to the back, then along the platform, and actually avoid all contact with enemies in that section. The Queensbreaker's Guard (or whatever he's called) doesn't even make it fully into the room before you're through.

You could also go the long way around-- Steppe, Mothyards, Forgotten Shore, Grottos, Refinery, Rocket Yard, Divide.

If you have a full fireteam, you can initiate the Sepiks Prime strike at the default difficulty and just turn around from Rocket Yard and go to the divide.

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I hadn't considered starting the strike and going a different direction. That'll be something to keep in mind.

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Grottos

If it's a lower level char, I see a problem with this path.

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Grottos

If it's a lower level char, I see a problem with this path.

Depends what you mean by lower level, I guess. If one is familiar with the route you can sparrow right through there.

That said, I still think starting the Sepiks strike and turning around is the fastest and most reliable method-- again, if you have a full fireteam. Otherwise you're just trolling randoms when you run in the opposite direction to do a patrol and then quit out when you're done.

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That said, I still think starting the Sepiks strike and turning around is the fastest and most reliable method-- again, if you have a full fireteam. Otherwise you're just trolling randoms when you run in the opposite direction to do a patrol and then quit out when you're done.

You can't do patrol during a Strike--all the missions are disabled. The most you can do is wait for public events.

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That said, I still think starting the Sepiks strike and turning around is the fastest and most reliable method-- again, if you have a full fireteam. Otherwise you're just trolling randoms when you run in the opposite direction to do a patrol and then quit out when you're done.

You can't do patrol during a Strike--all the missions are disabled. The most you can do is wait for public events.

That is true. You can do Queens bounties, but if you're doing those, just kill the queenbreaker. This only works for events, yes.

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I told her to just sprint through it, I was proud of her, she got through.

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Great. I actually think the game is better if it has enemies you need to avoid.

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I don't disagree with that, but it probably shouldn't be a placed in a connecting point. I like that some of the Wolf stuff makes you go into corners you wouldn't likely go otherwise.

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I don't disagree with that, but it probably shouldn't be a placed in a connecting point. I like that some of the Wolf stuff makes you go into corners you wouldn't likely go otherwise.

I don't mean to underestimate my FPS acumen, but I will say I'm one of the worst players who read this forum. After getting blindsided once by that guy I've not had to fight him again because I'm hauling butt through there (I usually do regardless--I usually have appointment with a Devil Walker).

I guess it requires some FPS acumen to know that hauling butt away from a enemy is a good strategy because almost always enemies will follow you only so far.

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Disagree.

Remember when Destiny launched (or even during the beta) and you went exploring the public areas and running into enemies who were leveled "??" and your weapons did nothing (nothing!) to them?

I miss that.

I miss that challenge.

That feeling of exploration, being in a new area, seeing a chest (or thinking there might be a chest) and having to go against enemies who you can't scratch, who can insta-kill you at the slightest slip up.

Past level 20, patrol became a cake walk...especially once you located all the gold chests (i miss those too, not the crap they contained, just finding them)

When the Wolves public events first started, and I got killed I was genuinely surprised, because the enemies were leveled higher than me for the first time since the game launched and in a non-raid experience to boot!

Just my thoughts. I must like punishing myself :/

Those guys were also tucked away in dark little corners or pass throughs you didn't necessarily need to explore or traverse, and they were predictable. Once you knew they were there, you could avoid them. The Wolves are not anything like that at all. They impede your progress through an area (that fucking Queenbreaker), they're all out in the open (and just like any other enemy out in the open, if you enter line of sight, you're going to be shot at), and not all of them are predictable.

The wolves were a monumental barrier to the enjoyment I got just wandering around the worlds until I hit about 26. That was the point I could occasionally do damage to them and survive more than a single shot. Up until then, they felt like bullies trolling patrol.

I don't disagree that it's nice seeing the occasional group you can't touch, blocking off an area I'd love to explore (like the Grottos), but the Wolves have not been that. I'm hoping Taken King handles it's events a bit more kindly.

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I've talked with people about that, but it was more in a comical manner of how messed up it is. Or could be in my sick, evil eyes:

They're playing around in Mothyards, then 'a pack of Wolves is prowling' and OH SH-- a bunch of question marks start dropping down and raining all unholy insta-kill hell on them. They run screaming until they find retreat in a dark corner. They're backing up against the wall, tears streaming down their face...then a loud shriek--'a servant of The Hand has been disturbed'. Then metal grinding, Hive spawn clouds, and more question mark explody thrall blowing them up while the Hand of Crota SLICES them all up. They run out to Skywatch, glad to see the light of day, until...

'the blades of Crota have invaded this world'(I miss them ;-(

'the enemy is moving against each other'

and they're trapped between hundreds of level 6's who act like level 30's.

THEN

'fall before Urzok, the Hated!'

The player ejects their Destiny disc and snaps it in half.

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This has always annoyed me

Like you said, level 6s with lvl 30 stats and health?...

I mean I love when it happens and I openly try to catch it but, just showing their levels like that really gripes me

It would also be better if this wasn't only triggered at the loot cave RIP

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Were they lvl30, we would all be completely hopeless against them when still green.

Sure, they're very hard, but at least it's possible to kill a few and have challenging fun.

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Be bladedancer
Have MOtTM equipped
Use encore
Pop consumable
Sit inside cave spinning death when fallen spawn
???
Profit!

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We were almost done with a "Kill 100 without dying" bounty when a wolf pack dropped right on her position and murdered her immediately. She was at 98 kills at the moment.

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We were almost done with a "Kill 100 without dying" bounty when a wolf pack dropped right on her position and murdered her immediately. She was at 98 kills at the moment.

Gosh that's annoying. I feel really bad for you guys. This is a terrible introduction to shooters! :(

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We were almost done with a "Kill 100 without dying" bounty when a wolf pack dropped right on her position and murdered her immediately. She was at 98 kills at the moment.

Gosh that's annoying. I feel really bad for you guys. This is a terrible introduction to shooters! :(

Is it?

Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

My wife and I also play from time to time, and she's not a "gamer" as such-- she just plays Halo and now Destiny with me.

I think it's less bad that sometimes those same kinds of things happen to her than it's good to see that sometimes those same things happen to me, as well as to players far better than me-- because it means that not everything is always under your control. Revive and start over. Sure, losing progress isn't fun in itself, but the accomplishment means more when it was difficult.

So far I think the only one of those that has really, really been a pain was the Urn quest, which also had progress slowed by death.

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Ideally with me controlling both teams so I can get safeties on every play.

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Well, First-Person, period.

She got quite good with the controls in a surprisingly fast time, while in true FPSs she would panic the hell out and never get it. There are several steps to gaming that we, as long-time gamers, don't even realize are there.

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I think its fine there are enemies that drop in and kill her. She's learning tactical engagement of the enemy (or in this case, nit engaging but retreating). It was just the placement of that one captain was poorly chosen.

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

I keep thinking of Half-Life 1. That would be a great choice for brand new people. You literally start on rails, getting used to a 3d space, and then by the end are leaping over aliens tossing grenades in their brains.

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

Gotta disagree. The player is not God. Most challenges? Sure. Possibly even the vast majority. But all? No. Sometimes you just have to run away, and sometimes there's no getting out alive.

That probably does explain the whining about the endings of Mass Effect 3 and Fallout 3, among other things.

I feel better about game universes where the player isn't the biggest or only thing there is.

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

Gotta disagree. The player is not God. Most challenges? Sure. Possibly even the vast majority. But all? No. Sometimes you just have to run away, and sometimes there's no getting out alive.

That probably does explain the whining about the endings of Mass Effect 3 and Fallout 3, among other things.

I feel better about game universes where the player isn't the biggest or only thing there is.

You've just triggered a connection in my head. I realize now how being an arcade junkie in the 70's/80's made me the kind of gamer I am today.

Asteroids and Defender imbued very key concepts firmly into my medulla.

Thanks Narc.

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

Gotta disagree. The player is not God. Most challenges? Sure. Possibly even the vast majority. But all? No. Sometimes you just have to run away, and sometimes there's no getting out alive.

That probably does explain the whining about the endings of Mass Effect 3 and Fallout 3, among other things.

I feel better about game universes where the player isn't the biggest or only thing there is.

You've just triggered a connection in my head. I realize now how being an arcade junkie in the 70's/80's made me the kind of gamer I am today.

Asteroids and Defender imbued very key concepts firmly into my medulla.

Thanks Narc.

You're welcome?

Not sure the connection you mean.

Myself, personally, I had a complicated relationship with arcades. My mom was not a fan of them (whose is?) and myself I felt the way about them that people feel now about MMO grind and stuff designed to addict players. The only way to play a game to completion without paying more than the initial quarter was to be good enough at the game to not die. The only way to practice was to play and die and pay over and over. That, to me, sort of felt like abuse, rather than challenge, because you couldn't possibly know what to expect until you'd seen it, and you had to pay to see it. Most games were not made so as to be beatable on first play.

Ironically, though, I'm not necessarily upset by the idea of paying full price for a game and then being unable to access all of it's content because I'm not good enough, because at that point practice only costs me time, not more money.

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

Gotta disagree. The player is not God. Most challenges? Sure. Possibly even the vast majority. But all? No. Sometimes you just have to run away, and sometimes there's no getting out alive.

That probably does explain the whining about the endings of Mass Effect 3 and Fallout 3, among other things.

I feel better about game universes where the player isn't the biggest or only thing there is.

You've just triggered a connection in my head. I realize now how being an arcade junkie in the 70's/80's made me the kind of gamer I am today.

Asteroids and Defender imbued very key concepts firmly into my medulla.

Thanks Narc.

You're welcome?

Not sure the connection you mean.

Myself, personally, I had a complicated relationship with arcades. My mom was not a fan of them (whose is?) and myself I felt the way about them that people feel now about MMO grind and stuff designed to addict players. The only way to play a game to completion without paying more than the initial quarter was to be good enough at the game to not die. The only way to practice was to play and die and pay over and over. That, to me, sort of felt like abuse, rather than challenge, because you couldn't possibly know what to expect until you'd seen it, and you had to pay to see it. Most games were not made so as to be beatable on first play.

Ironically, though, I'm not necessarily upset by the idea of paying full price for a game and then being unable to access all of it's content because I'm not good enough, because at that point practice only costs me time, not more money.

Yah, I'm not talking about any of that.

Defender and Asteroids had Hyperspace buttons. 'nuff said.

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All right. I think I get it. I play asteroids at arcades even today, because it's $.25 and the new games are like $1.50. The hyperspace button is an oh shit button when you are being overwhelmed by asteroids that moves you to a safer spot on the map. You used this to understand the technique of retreating, or as I think Sarge calls it, advancing towards future victories.

Except sometimes the spot would be even worse and you would explode.

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All right. I think I get it. I play asteroids at arcades even today, because it's $.25 and the new games are like $1.50. The hyperspace button is an oh shit button when you are being overwhelmed by asteroids that moves you to a safer spot on the map. You used this to understand the technique of retreating, or as I think Sarge calls it, advancing towards future victories.

Except sometimes the spot would be even worse and you would explode.

Bingo. 50/50, live or die.

I've firmly embraced 'random' for almost as long as I've been a sentient boy.

- M

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Bingo. 50/50, live or die.

I've firmly embraced 'random' for almost as long as I've been a sentient boy.

- M

That's fine, because that's a design choice and the player has to decide to take that risk. His choice to hit the button, so victory is still ultimately under his control.

There's a section in the original Lunar where you need to get an item to build a balloon to progress in the game. The item randomly drops form monsters in the Desert. THAT is bad, since you just have to keep fighting, waiting for the drop with no control over it.

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

Gotta disagree. The player is not God. Most challenges? Sure. Possibly even the vast majority. But all? No. Sometimes you just have to run away, and sometimes there's no getting out alive.

That probably does explain the whining about the endings of Mass Effect 3 and Fallout 3, among other things.

I feel better about game universes where the player isn't the biggest or only thing there is.

You've just triggered a connection in my head. I realize now how being an arcade junkie in the 70's/80's made me the kind of gamer I am today.

Asteroids and Defender imbued very key concepts firmly into my medulla.

Thanks Narc.

That's interesting. I started playing arcade games in the mid 80s... Asteroids and Defender were certainly still popular, but something about those games always rubbed me the wrong way. I think that when compared to other games I was playing at the same time, those classics felt like they were just designed to screw me. They were still fun, because they were exciting and had some great mechanics. But given the choice, I would rarely spend my quarters on them because I knew it might only take 30 seconds before something out of my control ended the game for me. The first arcade games I was really drawn to were fighting games; I loved the fact that I could watch someone play, learn how they fought, then throw down a quarter and see if I could counter them. Those games still devoured my quarters, but every time I lost I felt like it was because I had done something wrong, not because the fates had conspired against me :)

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Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

I wouldn't say complete control. There'd be no challenge then. But I think the ability of the player to overcome the challenges should rest solely in their control.

Gotta disagree. The player is not God. Most challenges? Sure. Possibly even the vast majority. But all? No. Sometimes you just have to run away, and sometimes there's no getting out alive.

I feel like That only works if there is a way for the game to continue on failure. For instance, heavy rain changing the storyline if one of the main characters dies.

Maybe we are talking about different things, but if something has to happen for you to win that is beyond your control, then I don't think that works. Basically, at any given moment there should be some combination of inputs that results in victory, except if the player made a bad choice or something. You may not have the knowledge or skill to give those inputs, but it's something learnable.

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We were almost done with a "Kill 100 without dying" bounty when a wolf pack dropped right on her position and murdered her immediately. She was at 98 kills at the moment.

Gosh that's annoying. I feel really bad for you guys. This is a terrible introduction to shooters! :(

Is it?

Probably? Speaking from my own experience of watching my partner start with Fallout 3 (which BeardFade's story reminds me of). Moving around in a 3-d space was hard enough for her, much less defeating enemies way beyond her capabilities. The Queenbreaker is like having a Deathclaw at the entrance to Megaton for someone that just learned how to not stare at the floor.

Are video games supposed to be places where nothing bad ever happens, or where every aspect of the world is under the complete control of the player, even when there's more than one player?

No of course not I agree with this. But long time players easily miss how difficult it is for people that have NEVER played. I can pick up a shooter nowadays and do relatively ok thanks to decades of playing similar games with similar tools. Newcomers have it rough.

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Ouch, that seriously sucks :(

I shall tell my friends, this month our battle cry as we slaughter the "wolves" must be "FOR ASHEVEIL"!!!

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Bonus points for Princess Bride references. The sillier the better.

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This all sounds frickin hilarious.

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From the outside yes. To an apprehensive player I am trying to hook on Destiny, no.

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Yeah, the Queenbreaker is the mass murderer of many a new guardian. Unfortunately since it's a "connector" area, other than someone bolting through on a sparrow you really can't help pubbies get past him.

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I just loaded up and went through there--if he sees you, that bastard will FOLLOW you--BIG time. The distance he can chase after you is insane--he can almost make it to the Steppes.

Do you think it would work better if the player kills all the enemies in Dock 13 first, then the Queenbreaker comes out of the wall like that Archon in Restoration at the beginning of the game? I think that would make sense, as then you only end up facing him when you WANT to.

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So I finally got Mrs. BeardFade, aka AsheVeil to start playing Destiny. Only took the prodding of three Guardians to make it happen :). But, because the Wolves are out and hunting, it's nearly impossible for her to get to the Divide. I really think they should have thought a bit more about the location of the House of Wolves enemies on patrol.

I loved that element with my low level titan, but maybe that queens breaker captain in bay 5 is a bit rough if you aren't used to FPSes in general.

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:( I can understand how that would hamper her experience, especially being new not just to Destiny, but to FPS games in general.

I know I got frustrated with the wolves getting in my way a few times when I started trying to level up my baby Warlock.

I usually enjoy challenges, but I agree with you here that the placement and timing of some of the "wolves" locations are not considerate to new players at all.

Having good friends / teammates who are higher level is good to deal with those situations. But I understand its not fun being the low level who is unable to help out and who dies any time they step out of hiding to take a shot at a "??" level character.

Get her a scorch canon to play with, then see if she starts having more fun! ;)

Best of luck to her, I hope she decides to keep giving Destiny and FPS games a shot.

~Kim "Dame"

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I actually did get her a scorch cannon. She was having fun killing things with it, but was very upset she could just switch weapons and take it with her. I told her I shared her sadness :)

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Patrol sucks for beginners now. (Destiny)