PS4 vs XBO?

After watching the Xbox One reveal then reading all the details about it online, I'm not too excited about it. However, I also recognize how collective known as "the internet" tends to jump on hater trends pretty easily so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. All the same...the stuff I've seen so far, I'm not to excited. I don't know much about the PS4 though.

So my question is, what do you all think about these two consoles and how they relate to Destiny. Any preferences?

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Whichever version can have Oculus Rift support.

I mean, Marathon got a version for the CyberMaxx VR Headset. Come on Bungie, give us Destiny on the Oculus Rift!

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Well, on this part at least.

PC/Occulus Rift, let me totally lose myself in this Bungie!

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Well, on this part at least.

PC/Occulus Rift, let me totally lose myself in this Bungie!

2nd half of this video is enough to get me hype.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H2rL-lBxRs

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Whichever version can have Oculus Rift support.

I mean, Marathon got a version for the CyberMaxx VR Headset. Come on Bungie, give us Destiny on the Oculus Rift!

I'll go a step farther and say I'm mostly just interested in the Rift over any consoles. If Destiny was on PC and had Rift support, there'd be no need for me to buy a next gen console at all.

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Saw this a couple of days ago and am in awe. If something like this were actually put onto the Xbox One, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Imagine walking around a Halo ring using this technology!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3OnQ_Q3RaI&list=FLxgwqyFM0NIa9I93w2LyL7w&index=2

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Imagine walking around a Halo ring using this technology!

Primordium: The Game

Based on the best-selling Greg Bear novel, Halo: Primordium, experience the adventure of walking for days around a Halo ring! Measure the width of the other side with your thumb, and then walk more! Bring along your pointless friends for awesome co-op walking! Catch and eat giant black bugs, and then walk some more! Halo: Primordium: The Game has all the action packed walking you loved in the novel, brought now to you by Kinect and Virtual Boy!

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Haha, I didn't mean that it would be the ENTIRE game. I meant more along the lines of playing Halo and being on the actual server Halo ring using this type of technology. Maybe the next Halo Anniversary :p

Although your game does sound kind of fun......

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That video spurred in me a few moments of deep thought, which eventually led me to the conclusion that I am personally not comfortable with that much immersion. A screen and a controller I am perfectly fine with since it provides a level of separation and leaves me grounded in real life; but when you take away the controller, and instead you just put on some fancy headset that immerses you so much in the game world that you are no longer just controlling a character in that game world, you are a character in that game world...that just doesn't sit well with me. Now all we need are personal life support systems and neural controls and the Matrix will be complete!

EDIT: It still looks really cool, and I'm extremely curious to see what else people can think up with this equipment, other than video games. Thanks for sharing!

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I'm not especially worried about pretty much any of the concerns anyone has regarding the XBO. I'm going to get it, and love it, and probably have the ps4 as well. If there are transferable saves between platforms, then I'll get Destiny for ps4 as well to play with psn friends.

xbo is the priority, and everything else is just gravy. Just not going to make the huge deal out of it that most live to. I play. I love.

Grim

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I'm not especially worried about pretty much any of the concerns anyone has regarding the XBO. I'm going to get it, and love it, and probably have the ps4 as well. If there are transferable saves between platforms, then I'll get Destiny for ps4 as well to play with psn friends.

xbo is the priority, and everything else is just gravy. Just not going to make the huge deal out of it that most live to. I play. I love.

Grim

This sums up my feelings pretty well. If there aren't transferable saves I may wait and see who is getting what, but if there are I will definitely get the XBO. For one thing everything I've heard about the new controller sounds amazing and the fact that the Kinect will automatically detect who is playing and even with splitscreen give them the best location on screen based on where they're sitting, that all sounds awesome to me.

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Yep. Every single platform has pros and cons; stuff that we could all spend a ton of time complaining about. I think instead I'll just spend more time actually enjoying the aspects I like, as I've done my whole life. A glass half empty is often held by an ass half full. Lol

Grim

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I know there are always concerns, but I have been largely satisfied with my XBox 360 and XBox Live. What's funny is that people have been negative on the XBoxOne reveal for what it didn't show, yet the PS4 reveal showed almost nothing substantial. Strange.

I'm hoping console exclusives fade away over time so that it wouldn't have to be an "either or" discussion. I'll consider buying both but I'm worried about different controllers messing with my atrophied 40-year old brain. Do you have much trouble switching back and forth?

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I know there are always concerns, but I have been largely satisfied with my XBox 360 and XBox Live. What's funny is that people have been negative on the XBoxOne reveal for what it didn't show, yet the PS4 reveal showed almost nothing substantial. Strange.

I'm hoping console exclusives fade away over time so that it wouldn't have to be an "either or" discussion. I'll consider buying both but I'm worried about different controllers messing with my atrophied 40-year old brain. Do you have much trouble switching back and forth?

I personally haven't had any problems switching back and forth, though I think a lot of that comes from the fact that I play different games on different systems. I was just thinking the other day that it may take some getting used to if I get Destiny for both systems to switch between different controllers and control schemes.

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If I go the PS4 route, I'm hoping someone will put out a Xbox style controller for it. At that point it won't matter for me.

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Do you have much trouble switching back and forth?

I find that switching from one system to another matters very little. The general placement of things on a PS3 vs a 360 controller is close enough that it doesn't matter. Provided the button assignments were equivalent, I feel I could play a game on PS3, then switch to the same game on 360 and be fine.

What does get me sometimes is switching from one game to another, especially when they're the same genre (so general movement and actions are similar) but the button assignments are different. Whether it be from a 360 game to a PS3 game, or from one 360 game to another*, if I spend a lot of time on an FPS with one control scheme, and switch to another FPS where some of the actions are on different buttons, THAT is when I get confused. Thankfully, this is usually just for a few minutes.

Unfortunately for your old brain, this does mean that control confusion is probably inevitable. The good news, I suppose, is that it's not likely to be any better or worse if you have 2 consoles.

* Actually, I almost feel it would be LESS of a problem if the PS3 and 360 layouts were hugely different. I doubt I would get as confused, for instance, switching from a Nintendo 64 controller to a 360, simply because the layouts are so different - there's no way my brain could confuse the two.

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The information/patents/rumors that keep coming out regarding the X1 has already made me decide to not get it, irrespective of what happens at E3.

- the Xbox must connect to the internet for at least five minutes a day

- the Kinect sensor will always be "on" to some degree even when the console is off (to listen for voice commands at the very least)

- the Kinect sensor MUST be connected to the console for it to function

- the Kinect sensor will be able to recognize peoples' faces and link them with Xbox accounts

- at least one recognizable face must be in the Kinect's field of vision to watch movies/TV or play games

- Microsoft has pitched the ideas to investors of (1) stopping playback of a movie if the Kinect sensor detects more viewers than a certain amount, at which point it could require paying for additional viewing licenses, and (2) identifying things like the jerseys being worn by viewers for more targeted advertisements

- the Kinect sensor will be able to monitor heart rate and facial expression and, correlating this with what's being shown on screen, can use this information to produce more targeted advertisements

- the Kinect sensor's IR camera can see even in total darkness

At this point, whatever happens with used games is the least of my concerns with the console. And, even though Sony hasn't said definitively one way or the other, rumor has it they'll also be implementing some form of used-game DRM.

I hooked back up my Dreamcast yesterday (playing through Starlancer at the moment), and I'm considering picking up a Gamecube since those two were the last pure gaming consoles made and I'm quite frankly pining for such an era. But beyond that, I think my future is in PC gaming.

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- at least one recognizable face must be in the Kinect's field of vision to watch movies/TV or play games

Is this true? That's some literal big brother shit right there.

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- at least one recognizable face must be in the Kinect's field of vision to watch movies/TV or play games

Is this true? That's some literal big brother shit right there.

There is very little truth that's able to be verified officially. For now it's a rumor, but it's a very believable one given the patents Microsoft has filed and the general direction of the console. For example, making sure that the number of people watching a movie doesn't exceed a certain number doesn't mean much if those people can easily point the Kinect at a wall. The same goes for targeted advertisements. Where there's smoke there's fire, I say.

Oh, I forgot: Microsoft to award achievements for watching TV shows and movies.

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- at least one recognizable face must be in the Kinect's field of vision to watch movies/TV or play games

Is this true? That's some literal big brother shit right there.

There is very little truth that's able to be verified officially. For now it's a rumor, but it's a very believable one given the patents Microsoft has filed and the general direction of the console.

Is it a rumor that's unable to be verified officially that you made up yourself, or are you repeating someone else's?

The stuff that's been actually said by MS employees is scary enough. The stuff that one can logically conclude from those things, but has not been actually said by anyone, is also plenty chilling.

The stuff you mentioned there-- like shutting down if everyone leaves the room-- is so suicidal I don't even think MS would attempt it, and I haven't read it anywhere-- not as something any MS employee has said or tweeted, not even as a rumor on a site.

I've said myself that I thought the technical capabilities were moving toward MS replacing Nielsen by providing data on what programs are being watched, and when, number of people in the room, and who they are (if faces are recognizable and linked to an XBL or social media profile) as well as eye tracking data. This could be provided to developers as well, basically making every connected Xbone an extension of the publisher's focus group testing lab.

That's all speculation, but I think is reasonable (from MS' perspective) as well as sort of crazy (from the consumer perspective).

Charging extra for more people in the room, or shutting down if nobody is in the room (as a default and/or not as a configurable option) is nuts. I think I did hear (very early on) the idea that Kinect could be configured to automatically pause movies if you leave the room, but it'd be nuts not to make that configurable.

For example, making sure that the number of people watching a movie doesn't exceed a certain number doesn't mean much if those people can easily point the Kinect at a wall. The same goes for targeted advertisements. Where there's smoke there's fire, I say.

That means at least one of your rumors isn't true. Kinect aimed at a wall could not recognize any faces and would refuse to play media or games, no?

If you're MS, why bother with the internet requirement and the kinect requirement, but then allow people to make those things useless by blinding the camera? Or are they just counting on the fact that most people won't bother to do it?

Oh, I forgot: Microsoft to award achievements for watching TV shows and movies.

Which is a clever way of making sure like they don't look like they're going behind your back. They're letting you know that they've seen you watch certain content. And if you allow friends, or friends of friends to view your achievements, either on XBL, or on a social media network... then you're being data mined.

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If you're MS, why bother with the internet requirement and the kinect requirement, but then allow people to make those things useless by blinding the camera? Or are they just counting on the fact that most people won't bother to do it?

That was Schooly's point from the "at least one recognizable face..." post: they could require that at least one person be in view to try to get people to not play camera tricks, and then apply DRM if too many people are in view.

Not that I agree that Microsoft is likely to do that. As you suggest, it could be... unattractive to consumers.

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If you're MS, why bother with the internet requirement and the kinect requirement, but then allow people to make those things useless by blinding the camera? Or are they just counting on the fact that most people won't bother to do it?

That was Schooly's point from the "at least one recognizable face..." post: they could require that at least one person be in view to try to get people to not play camera tricks, and then apply DRM if too many people are in view.

Not that I agree that Microsoft is likely to do that. As you suggest, it could be... unattractive to consumers.

Seems like the next gen Kinect spying stuff could be bypassed if you just covered it up (and made sure it was a soundproof cover also), unless of course they designed it so you couldn't do that for some reason.

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If you're MS, why bother with the internet requirement and the kinect requirement, but then allow people to make those things useless by blinding the camera? Or are they just counting on the fact that most people won't bother to do it?

That was Schooly's point from the "at least one recognizable face..." post: they could require that at least one person be in view to try to get people to not play camera tricks, and then apply DRM if too many people are in view.

Yeah. I'm basing most of my soothsaying on the requirement that the Kinect sensor be connected for the console to operate at all. tarehart (in IRC) believes this requirement is just an attempt to "push" the technology on the user base. I think that's reasonable, but my Schooly Senses tell me to not ignore the usefulness of such a requirement in a grander scheme involving monitoring who is playing/watching what, and using that information to target advertisements and in some cases restrict content (both of which can be found in Microsoft's patent filings).

On the one hand, it would take a lot of the air out of Microsoft's dealings with movie publishers if they say "We can make sure no more than X people are watching your movie at a given time, and if they exceed X we can make them pay extra, unless they turn the sensor at a wall or cover it with a Post-It note."

On the other hand, you're right that it'd almost be suicidal. I'm sure a lot of people leave a movie on while they're cooking in a kitchen adjacent to their living room, for example, and the rumored functionality would prohibit that.

Bottom line for me: If the Kinect's functionality is going to center just around targeted advertisements, I can see the Person-In-FOV requirement to be false. It's not the end of the world if ads are just a little less targeted. But if the Kinect's functionality extends to restricting content like the movie audience example, I give it more credence.

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Yeah. I'm basing most of my soothsaying on the requirement that the Kinect sensor be connected for the console to operate at all. tarehart (in IRC) believes this requirement is just an attempt to "push" the technology on the user base. I think that's reasonable, but my Schooly Senses tell me to not ignore the usefulness of such a requirement in a grander scheme involving monitoring who is playing/watching what, and using that information to target advertisements and in some cases restrict content (both of which can be found in Microsoft's patent filings).

This is why I find the rather lackluster attitude with regard to ads on the current Xbox 360 dashboard so offensive. If there had been an outcry with regard to that, then MS would not even consider being in a position to push that further. I remember bringing up how much I hated the ads, and Claude said something to the effect of "Why does it matter? They are small, and you can ignore them". THIS IS WHY IT MATTERS. The public's tacit acceptance of ads on their gaming console has opened the door to further invasion of your leisure time by advertisers, in ways you might NOT find easy to ignore.

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Nice work, Wu - you F'd everything up.

Kidding aside, it's the whole damn landscape. Everything has moved to free(ish) content with ad revenue. Every person that uses an internet browser - be it PC, tablet, smartphone, or otherwise is complicit with this arrangement. This isn't the future, it is the now. Our data is already mined, and will continue to be. Our online presence has begun to eclipse our "real" presence.

It was already decided by a population far greater than us. I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe there was ever anything the gaming community could have done about it.

It's not Microsoft. It's not Facebook. It's not Google. It's us, all of us.

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Kidding aside, it's the whole damn landscape. Everything has moved to free(ish) content with ad revenue. Every person that uses an internet browser - be it PC, tablet, smartphone, or otherwise is complicit with this arrangement. This isn't the future, it is the now. Our data is already mined, and will continue to be. Our online presence has begun to eclipse our "real" presence.

Safari. Safari Adblock. Block 3rd party cookies.

It was already decided by a population far greater than us. I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe there was ever anything the gaming community could have done about it.

You don't need to DO anything about it. Either you play or don't. More than likely I won't, seeing as how there are other games / game systems and other activities that don't treat me like a product.

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Wait, what is wrong with ads? They are unobtrusive, and I'd rather not pay and be mildly inconvenienced (at worst) then to pay for something. I do use Adblock, but only on certain sites; most places haven't earned my ire and I'm happy to support them.

seeing as how there are other games / game systems and other activities that don't treat me like a product.

Wait, what? The anti-console thing I get, although I don't agree with, but tell me I'm misinterpreting you. The way I'm reading this, you're complaining the game is tracking your information to provide ads. Where the heck did that come from? Again, correct me if I'm wrong; this seems out of nowhere. It's just, last time I played a game, I didn't get any commercials doing it. Heck, the extent of the data mining of the Dash is it gives me ads I actually care about. Well, about games I care about; I don't really ever click ads.

THIS IS WHY IT MATTERS. The public's tacit acceptance of ads on their gaming console has opened the door to further invasion of your leisure time by advertisers, in ways you might NOT find easy to ignore.

I've always hated this; You don't have to oppose something that is mildly annoying just because it could lead to something worse. Accepting something doesn't make you implicit in them taking it overboard. And what exactly are they doing that is overboard? Because I highly doubt they are tying your face to ads; if they are, I'd stand against that. But can we wait to actually hear some facts before arranging a boycott? There are certainly data mining and ad practices that are despicable, but just tailoring ads to what you've played is really not that big a deal. You should be able to disable that, but it isn't worth a boycott. Of course, I'm fairly certain you're looking for reasons to dislike this thing, but that's fine by me. Just to clarify, if they ARE doing despicable things, I'm out and consider this retracted. I just doubt they are because of how monumentally stupid it would be to do most of these things.

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Wait, what? The anti-console thing I get, although I don't agree with, but tell me I'm misinterpreting you. The way I'm reading this, you're complaining the game is tracking your information to provide ads. Where the heck did that come from? Again, correct me if I'm wrong; this seems out of nowhere. It's just, last time I played a game, I didn't get any commercials doing it. Heck, the extent of the data mining of the Dash is it gives me ads I actually care about. Well, about games I care about; I don't really ever click ads.

This is our new reality. We do not rely entirely on applications to filter, we learn to filter ourselves. When ads first started appearing they bugged the hell out of me because they kept grabbing my attention. Now, they're nothing but background noise. I have never clicked on an ad purposefully.

I've always hated this; You don't have to oppose something that is mildly annoying just because it could lead to something worse. Accepting something doesn't make you implicit in them taking it overboard. And what exactly are they doing that is overboard? Because I highly doubt they are tying your face to ads; if they are, I'd stand against that. But can we wait to actually hear some facts before arranging a boycott? There are certainly data mining and ad practices that are despicable, but just tailoring ads to what you've played is really not that big a deal. You should be able to disable that, but it isn't worth a boycott. Of course, I'm fairly certain you're looking for reasons to dislike this thing, but that's fine by me. Just to clarify, if they ARE doing despicable things, I'm out and consider this retracted. I just doubt they are because of how monumentally stupid it would be to do most of these things.

Manipulation of us is bad, but has been going on for a long time. TV is a horrible manipulator, but so are magazine advertisements and even signage coloring. Why is the M on a McDonald's yellowy-orange? Because that color makes humans think food. I find all of it a bit slimy, but it is our reality.

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I read this post, and your other one further below, and then read the following.

“In the forest, there was a crooked tree and a straight tree. Every day, the straight tree would say to the crooked tree, “Look at me…I’m tall, and I’m straight, and I’m handsome. Look at you…you’re all crooked and bent over. No one wants to look at you.” And they grew up in that forest together. And then one day the loggers came, and they saw the crooked tree and the straight tree, and they said, “Just cut the straight trees and leave the rest.” So the loggers turned all the straight trees into lumber and toothpicks and paper. And the crooked tree is still there, growing stronger and stranger every day.” - Tom Waits (Wristcutters, A Love Story)

I felt it was related to the discussion. Your post had a crooked-tree-ness to it. Cheers.

EDIT: Cody might be the most crooked tree of all time. :P

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Kidding aside, it's the whole damn landscape. Everything has moved to free(ish) content with ad revenue. Every person that uses an internet browser - be it PC, tablet, smartphone, or otherwise is complicit with this arrangement. This isn't the future, it is the now. Our data is already mined, and will continue to be. Our online presence has begun to eclipse our "real" presence.

Safari. Safari Adblock. Block 3rd party cookies.

If it weren't for the horrendous memory leaks, I'd still be using it.

Blocking 3rd party cookies is always a good idea.

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Safari. Safari Adblock. Block 3rd party cookies.

Yes, understood. But what percentage of the population is savvy enough to get this? I play my online presence close to the vest, but that ship has sailed for the vast majority of the population. Mom and Pop aren't going to be as savvy as you, and they vastly outnumber you.

It was already decided by a population far greater than us. I think we're fooling ourselves if we believe there was ever anything the gaming community could have done about it.

You don't need to DO anything about it. Either you play or don't. More than likely I won't, seeing as how there are other games / game systems and other activities that don't treat me like a product.

Understood, again. I agree with your principle. I'm saying that battle is already lost. They (they!) won't even notice you're missing.

Edited for grammar

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You probably already know, but DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou is region free. (Don't know if you have a JP box or not.)

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The information/patents/rumors that keep coming out regarding the X1 has already made me decide to not get it, irrespective of what happens at E3.

- the Xbox must connect to the internet for at least five minutes a day

- the Kinect sensor will always be "on" to some degree even when the console is off (to listen for voice commands at the very least)

- the Kinect sensor MUST be connected to the console for it to function

- the Kinect sensor will be able to recognize peoples' faces and link them with Xbox accounts

- at least one recognizable face must be in the Kinect's field of vision to watch movies/TV or play games

- Microsoft has pitched the ideas to investors of (1) stopping playback of a movie if the Kinect sensor detects more viewers than a certain amount, at which point it could require paying for additional viewing licenses, and (2) identifying things like the jerseys being worn by viewers for more targeted advertisements

- the Kinect sensor will be able to monitor heart rate and facial expression and, correlating this with what's being shown on screen, can use this information to produce more targeted advertisements

- the Kinect sensor's IR camera can see even in total darkness

At this point, whatever happens with used games is the least of my concerns with the console. And, even though Sony hasn't said definitively one way or the other, rumor has it they'll also be implementing some form of used-game DRM.

I hooked back up my Dreamcast yesterday (playing through Starlancer at the moment), and I'm considering picking up a Gamecube since those two were the last pure gaming consoles made and I'm quite frankly pining for such an era. But beyond that, I think my future is in PC gaming.

I'm glad I wasn't the first to list these.
I'll be sticking with the PC for this - if at all possible. Otherwise, I'll likely be falling back on my olde 360.

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A mandatory camera/mic connected to a mandatory internet connection that ships with a privacy policy to reassure users is not coming in my house. Why would anyone willingly do that?

I am currently likely to get a PS4 because of the independent/Japanese game scene. Zero interest in AAA games right now, sadly including Destiny. The things that will affect whether I get a PS4: is Eye mandatory (apparently no) and is it region locked. Until PCs get more acceptance/decent ports for fighters I will need a console of some sort (next Guilty Gear looks hawt). I do see myself building out a small form factor PC to stick in my cab for PC fighters (skullgirls), platformers and doujin shmups. Most of what I play is lower priced digital stuff (which is fine, I get fewer rights but pay less money).

Most of my gaming for the foreseeable future is going to be on this gen's consoles (including Wii U for platinum/nintendo stuff). I am not planning on renewing live when it runs out this year, though. Migrating my online play over to PS3.

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A mandatory camera/mic connected to a mandatory internet connection that ships with a privacy policy to reassure users is not coming in my house. Why would anyone willingly do that?

I would do it because I simply can't find anything of real harm to me being done through it. Of course, I obviously do not prize my privacy as much as most of you.

I'd like to know why, though. Why do you place your own privacy with that high of a value? I'm honestly curious. If anyone else could also chip in, I'd appreciate it too.

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Off the top of my head - cultural reasons. In America, there's a pretty strong thread of individualism and privacy. Lots of folks have championed it, so it's just kind of a default mode. Heck, lots of folks immigrated here because they were tired of folks screwing around with their lives, and continue to do so today.

Take Mal Reynolds in Firefly - what else is the point of government (Microsoft) than to get in a man's way?

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Off the top of my head - cultural reasons. In America, there's a pretty strong thread of individualism and privacy. Lots of folks have championed it, so it's just kind of a default mode. Heck, lots of folks immigrated here because they were tired of folks screwing around with their lives, and continue to do so today.

Take Mal Reynolds in Firefly - what else is the point of government (Microsoft) than to get in a man's way?

A young River Tam said it best in the first few minutes of Serenity, but I should probably leave it at that.

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The information/patents/rumors that keep coming out regarding the X1 has already made me decide to not get it, irrespective of what happens at E3.

- the Xbox must connect to the internet for at least five minutes a day

- the Kinect sensor will always be "on" to some degree even when the console is off (to listen for voice commands at the very least)

- the Kinect sensor MUST be connected to the console for it to function

- the Kinect sensor will be able to recognize peoples' faces and link them with Xbox accounts

- at least one recognizable face must be in the Kinect's field of vision to watch movies/TV or play games

- Microsoft has pitched the ideas to investors of (1) stopping playback of a movie if the Kinect sensor detects more viewers than a certain amount, at which point it could require paying for additional viewing licenses, and (2) identifying things like the jerseys being worn by viewers for more targeted advertisements

- the Kinect sensor will be able to monitor heart rate and facial expression and, correlating this with what's being shown on screen, can use this information to produce more targeted advertisements

- the Kinect sensor's IR camera can see even in total darkness

At this point, whatever happens with used games is the least of my concerns with the console. And, even though Sony hasn't said definitively one way or the other, rumor has it they'll also be implementing some form of used-game DRM.

I hooked back up my Dreamcast yesterday (playing through Starlancer at the moment), and I'm considering picking up a Gamecube since those two were the last pure gaming consoles made and I'm quite frankly pining for such an era. But beyond that, I think my future is in PC gaming.

Put a post-it note in front of the Kinect camera--problem solved! Or point it backwards and save yourself $0.005

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Put a post-it note in front of the Kinect camera--problem solved!

Won't work. It's got IR sensors. It can see you in the dark. It can see you through walls! It know when you are sleeping. It knows when you're awake. It knows if you've been bad or good, so a post-it note won't work for goodness sake!

And lets not even start about the microphone array. Remember what Batman did with the cellphones in The Dark Knight? Yeah. That.

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...but just to point out again, according to Microsoft the Kinect will be able to be turned off:

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...but just to point out again, according to Microsoft the Kinect will be able to be turned off:

From the article:

"If you want privacy, we'll give you modes that ensure your privacy."

Modes? Like off I hope?

Microsoft's new Xbox meets the definition of a surveillance device under some Australian laws

Uh oh!

Berlin's federal data protection commissioner Peter Schaar has also expressed concerns, via the same piece. "The Xbox One continuously records all sorts of personal information about me. My reaction rates, my learning or emotional states. These are then processed on an external server, and possibly even passed on to third parties. The fact that Microsoft could potentially spy on my living room is merely a twisted nightmare.

Double oh oh!

"We aren't using Kinect to snoop on anybody at all. We listen for the word 'Xbox on' and then switch on the machine, but we don't transmit personal data in any way, shape or form…

Oh good!

…that could be personally identifiable to you, unless you explicitly opt into that."

Wait a minute!

Really I'm just having fun with it.

The biggest threat an always on spy camera in my living room poses to me is causing me to hit my bandwidth cap.

Don't get me wrong. I don't particularly want a Kinect. They didn't really prove that they could make it useful with the 360 and I'm somewhat doubtful that they can make it useful with the Xbone. I'd suffer without being able to talk to my console if they'd knock $50 - $100 off the price. But the privacy issues don't concern me. Microsoft isn't that stupid. And on the off chance they are some kid with a packet sniffer will call them on it one week into launch and it will be fixed.

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The biggest threat an always on spy camera in my living room poses to me is causing me to hit my bandwidth cap. I don't particularly want a Kinect. They didn't really prove that they could make it useful with the 360 and I'm somewhat doubtful that they can make it useful with the Xbone. I'd suffer without being able to talk to my console if they'd knock $50 - $100 off the price. But the privacy issues don't concern me. Microsoft isn't that stupid. And on the off chance they are some kid with a packet sniffer will call them on it one week into launch and it will be fixed.

Haha, the bandwidth issue is one I did not consider. But yeah I don't expect Microsoft to be stupid enough to break certain boundaries with privacy.

As far as them including Kinect with every XBO, I am pretty sure it's to try and get REAL developers to do something worthwhile with it. "Look it's connect to EVERY XBO! Now develop for it! Please?"

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What I don't get is if I can turn it off, and the game I'm playing doesn't require it, then why does it have to be plugged in? What if I'm at a LAN and we're all set up in close quarters to play Halo 5? Why do I have to have my kinect with me and have it sitting 10 inches from my face when I don't need it? What if my kids knock it over and break it? Am I stuck not playing Destiny or Halo 5 because my kinect is broke? I think they could have saved a lot of this mess from happening if they just made it optional to plug in.

I'm just really shaking my head at this whole thing. How did nobody in their marketing department not speak up and say that people are going to have a problem with this? Now, instead of going out and building more hype, they're having to go out and try to put out the fires they've started.

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Because the fires are temporary. And because they hope that the results will be cool enough that nobody remembers them. All I'm expecting is a few well reviewed dance games and some Star Wars games that don't quite sync up to what you're doing. Maybe they'll prove me wrong…

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So you cover the IR sensor as well. IR is not magic and it doesn't go through walls, or post-it notes. It's exactly the same as visible light, just a different wavelength.

Pretty sure Pete's talking about this being a temporary thing for when you're not using it, by the way. Obviously, it may require being uncovered for the console to operate - a device which can 3D-map an entire room right down to the occupant's faces, limb positions, and heart rates, can surely tell that it has been placed right up against a flat surface. :)

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If PS4 gets better performance and/or image quality in multiplats than Durango, that's a significant plus.

Durango's potential legacy support problems concern me a bit. It's highly unlikely that they'll shut down support any time in the remotely near future if this becomes a successful console (and especially if it becomes a successful platform outside of the traditional console space), but who knows what happens if it doesn't catch on, and Microsoft's game division's legacy support history does them approximately 0 favours here. This isn't like the oXbox where dropping support just killed online play; with Durango, dropping support could wind up bricking everything everywhere forever.

As controllers go, I would formerly have said that the Xbox franchise has a strong hold on me, but the dualshock 4 is finally looking like a reasonable, cohesive design. I think Durango's controller is still looking a bit more attractive than PS4's, but not to the extent of being a hugely significant selling point.

One area where Durango can make itself attractive is with Microsoft's "infinite power of the cloud" bullshlapskie. Their hyperbolic language is bullshlapskie, but the servers aren't, and if that turns into better support for stuff like dedicated servers on Durango, that's a plus.

As Destiny goes in particular, supposedly it might have a slight content advantage on PS4 over Durango, but who knows.

//=================

Right now is wait and see time, though. Not much is known.

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From a pure game standpoint Sony's pitch was WAY better. They seemed more open and interested in developer support (the indy presence was reassuring.)

I don't watch TV or the NFL so the Xbox One reveal lost me. At the end of the day I'll get the console that allows me to play with the people on my friends list (so most likely XBO.)

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From a pure game standpoint Sony's pitch was WAY better. They seemed more open and interested in developer support (the indy presence was reassuring.)

I don't watch TV or the NFL so the Xbox One reveal lost me. At the end of the day I'll get the console that allows me to play with the people on my friends list (so most likely XBO.)

Agree 100%. Currently clinging to my pipe dream of one homogenous player community. I wouldn't mind switching brand loyalty over to PS4 (I don't have enough time to split between consoles.), but if the player base is segmented by platform it will probably mean XBO for me. Good thing it's a 360 release. I'm assuming that may mean the possibility of a holiday release this year (based on recent comments by Urk.)

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From a pure game standpoint Sony's pitch was WAY better. They seemed more open and interested in developer support (the indy presence was reassuring.)

I don't watch TV or the NFL so the Xbox One reveal lost me. At the end of the day I'll get the console that allows me to play with the people on my friends list (so most likely XBO.)

Agree 100%. Currently clinging to my pipe dream of one homogenous player community. I wouldn't mind switching brand loyalty over to PS4 (I don't have enough time to split between consoles.), but if the player base is segmented by platform it will probably mean XBO for me. Good thing it's a 360 release. I'm assuming that may mean the possibility of a holiday release this year (base on recent comments by Urk.)

~M

Thank you for mentioning time. That can't be stressed enough. I've got other things to do, man!

I'm already mourning the fact that I inevitably won't be able to play with some friends.

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I'm not in a rush to buy the PS4 or Xbox One. The technology behind the two looks fantastic, no doubt about that. It's the functionality that kills my potential ownership. I don't see where Microsoft gets off on calling backwards compability "backwards" (shut up) when the Xbox One probably won't have an extensive library of gems for months. Region locking is also a real bummer. Most of my PS3 game library are Japanese games. I was convinced to buy that console just for an international game. A good chunk of my Blu-ray collection are also international releases.

When I hook up my Xbox One, I will still need to keep my 360 and PS3 at the ready. That's bullshit. Pardon my ignorance, but this functionality seems like easy work for an essential bulletpoint for consumers to appreciate. So right now the PS4 is in my good graces. More worrisome than that are the games. I'm not going to buy either until I can buy enough great exclusive games that equal the amount I paid for the console itself. The Xbox 360 still has plenty of exciting games coming out. It has Netflix, YouTube, and Crunchyroll accessibility. I don't need another "all-in-one box."

Destiny alone won't sell a console for me. All of my gamer friends are on Xbox Live and I don't expect them to buy Xbox One anytime soon. It'll be an Xbox 360 buy for me initially and I won't rule out buying it for PS4 or Xbox One later on.

Also, why does the new Kinect have to be so fucking creepy?

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[image]

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If I get it, I'm naming mine Sovereign. I'll feed it human smoothies when it gets grumpy.

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Lol, nice.

If I ever get one, WALL-E comes to mind. But, if they ever add a voice to the Kinect, I'm totally getting a GLaDOS voice.

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It's unnerving seeing my name used like that. Well done :)

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If I get it, I'm naming mine Sovereign. I'll feed it human smoothies when it gets grumpy.

I'm naming mine Jarvis. Just think all of the cool stuff you could do with the infinite power of the cloud, including but not limited to building your own powered armor suit.

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I'm naming mine Jarvis. Just think all of the cool stuff you could do with the infinite power of the cloud, including but not limited to building your own powered armor suit.

Jarvis is a great guy. He didn't even charge Rhodey a pre-owned fee for stealing the Mark II suit.

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I don't see where Microsoft gets off on calling backwards compability "backwards"

I feel like you're taking that statement as an insult against your (and everyone else's) desire to have backwards compatibility. It isn't meant that way. It's a statement about whether that step would make sense from Microsoft's perspective. Unfortunately Mattrick didn't go into detail, but I assume he meant that because of the totally different architecture between 360 and XBOne that it would be a significant investment in engineering and support, and all they'd accomplish is emulation which has historically been crap. Think the 360's half-assed original XBox support, or the better-but-still-not-perfect PS2 support after they took the PS2 hardware out of the PS3. He was just trying to say that including backwards compatibility would drag the console down in other ways, and MS doesn't feel it's worth it.

When I hook up my Xbox One, I will still need to keep my 360 and PS3 at the ready. That's bullshit. Pardon my ignorance, but this functionality seems like easy work for an essential bulletpoint for consumers to appreciate.

Eh, I don't think it's really very easy. If it was, the 360's original XBox support would have been good and I would be able to play RalliSport Challenge 2 right now. :( The sad face is to indicate that although I disagree, I am sympathetic. ;)

So right now the PS4 is in my good graces. More worrisome than that are the games. I'm not going to buy either until I can buy enough great exclusive games that equal the amount I paid for the console itself. The Xbox 360 still has plenty of exciting games coming out. It has Netflix, YouTube, and Crunchyroll accessibility. I don't need another "all-in-one box."

Can't argue with the games thing. For me, getting Forza 5 is worth it, but YMMV, as they say. Also on the all-in-one thing. I'm getting an XBOne purely because of a game. I couldn't care less about the TV functionality, although I do like the multi-tasking idea a lot.

Destiny alone won't sell a console for me. All of my gamer friends are on Xbox Live and I don't expect them to buy Xbox One anytime soon. It'll be an Xbox 360 buy for me initially and I won't rule out buying it for PS4 or Xbox One later on.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Also, why does the new Kinect have to be so fucking creepy?

I dunno. The crux of this for me is going to be, what is it doing when the console's off? Microsoft has said that all it does is listen for the phrase "XBox - on." IF that turns out to be true, then I don't mind it. The thing about computers, and machines in general, is they do what they're programmed to do, and nothing else. If, in its low-power state, Kinect isn't capable of doing anything beyond listening for two words, then that's all it does. Kinect isn't going to randomly decide one day to post naked pictures of me to Twitter just because it decides it hates me. And frankly, if it does anything else when it's off, I'll figure out a way around it.

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Eh, I don't think it's really very easy. If it was, the 360's original XBox support would have been good and I would be able to play RalliSport Challenge 2 right now. :( The sad face is to indicate that although I disagree, I am sympathetic. ;)

I never had any problems playing original Xbox games on my 360. Only the software update to allow it to play older games was a bummer.

Can't argue with the games thing. For me, getting Forza 5 is worth it, but YMMV, as they say. Also on the all-in-one thing. I'm getting an XBOne purely because of a game. I couldn't care less about the TV functionality, although I do like the multi-tasking idea a lot.

I'm a Forza junkie so that game is a definite buy, but like Destiny, it's not a console seller for me. Truthfully I spenf far more time watching film, television, and other videos on my 360 than playing video games. There are still tons of games I own that I've yet to play. Maybe it's just that I'm growing up or they were impulse buys that I have no real excitement for. So I guess the only selling point for the Xbox One is the media functionality. It looks fantastic. But I won't buy it just for that alone.

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I dunno. The crux of this for me is going to be, what is it doing when the console's off? Microsoft has said that all it does is listen for the phrase "XBox - on." IF that turns out to be true, then I don't mind it. The thing about computers, and machines in general, is they do what they're programmed to do, and nothing else. If, in its low-power state, Kinect isn't capable of doing anything beyond listening for two words, then that's all it does. Kinect isn't going to randomly decide one day to post naked pictures of me to Twitter just because it decides it hates me. And frankly, if it does anything else when it's off, I'll figure out a way around it.

Actually, while your statement about computers doing only what they're programmed for is true, one has to take into consideration that firmware updates are commonplace even within the 360's environment. So there is always the potential for the XBO to do just what you described, even if it, originally, was only programmed to listen for "Xbox - on".

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I'm likely going to be an early adopter of one of the two forthcoming next-gen systems, as if I'm going to play Destiny, I'm going to want to do so with the full power of next-gen at my disposal. I still haven't finalized my decision on which one I'll get first. For me, my decision will all depend on three things:

1) How the consoles deal with used games. While neither system will block used games, it's unclear what the exact caveats, if any, are. I'm someone who finds tremendous benefit in the ability to borrow from friends or buy from the second-hand market. For one, there is less risk, as not only do used games cost less than MSRP (sometimes by a lot, sometimes only by a little bit), if I buy used from Gamestop I can return it within a week for a full refund. Also there's the fact that even if a game goes out of print, it's still possible to buy a pre-owned copy. Needless to say, anyone who makes it a hassle to buy (such as through prohibitive fees) will not find themselves in my good graces. I can always take my money elsewhere. Given the brutally negative reaction to even the possibility that used games could be hampered in any way, I honestly don't see either Sony or MS actually going through with any sort of plan that deviates with business is usual. They have more to lose from customers ditching them than from publishers going through their "Oh, woe is me! People are buying my games used instead of new" crap.

2) Whether the consoles require any sort of internet connection. The only thing I even get online to do is play the occasional bit of Halo matchmaking. The idea that my console would be become useless if I decided to disconnect it from the internet for more than some arbitrary amount of time (or if I took my system somewhere where there isn't internet, like, say, my parent's house) doesn't sit well with me. While Sony did say we could play our games offline, they weren't 100% clear if that entailed there would be no online requirements at all (though given that they said they realize that not everybody has good internet or even any internet at all, that leads me to think the PS4 will not require an internet connection). Meanwhile, at this point it seems that the XBO will require some sort of online connection, which would discourage me from being an early adopter (not to mention that it would hurt the system's prospects greatly).

3) What their game libraries for the first few months look like. Exclusives are very, very important. By definition I can play a multi-platform game on any system. If someone wants me to adopt their system, they need to offer me experiences that I can't get anywhere else. Sony has already announced new Killzone and Infamous games as well as Knack, and there's the possibility that other Sony IPs (e.g., Gran Turismo, Uncharted, Resistance, LittleBigPlanet) may carry over the the PS4. Meanwhile, MS's exclusives have pretty much dwindled to Halo, Gears, Forza, and Fable. While Forza will be present at launch, it's unlikely (though not impossible) that we'll be getting new Halo and Gears games considering that we just recently got new entries in the series. So, MS will have to either develop completely new IPs or resurrect older IPs (e.g., Crackdown, all the Rare IPs they have) that have been left collecting dust. They said they'll have 15 exclusives for the XBO to show off at E3, but we don't yet know if all of those are full retail games.

As of now, I've been leaning towards the PS4. Sony just seems to be focusing on the gamer first and foremost. Meanwhile, MS disappointed me by focusing on the XBO being a general media/social networking device, with games being treated as ancillary. I honestly couldn't care less about the features that were the main focus of the XBO presentation; I have a DVR, a Blu-ray player, a computer, and a smart TV, and thus have no need for yet another device that does those things. I'm interested in a game console, and right now Sony appears to be the one whose target audience is the core gamer. Still, that could all change come E3 when we see all the launch window games and (hopefully) have the situations regarding online requirements and used games completely cleared up.

Of course, right now I'm honestly more interested in what Nintendo has in store for the Wii U than anything else. I've been Playing With Power since 1987, and I plan on doing so for as long as the Big N keeps making games and systems.

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I'll be going Next Gen for Destiny so if Bungie's obviously supporting one console more than the other then there's no question. Bungie has been making some bold moves getting all lovey dovey with Sony lately but we'll see how things unfold in the months to come. I probably won't pickup a new console until Destiny's release anyhow.

Destiny aside, the XBone reveal was a disaster. Television, sports, Call of Duty dog, fish AI, the infinite power of the cloud, Big Brother Kinect, complete confusion about the used games issue, etc.

But the controller looks great, for whatever that's worth.

If I had to choose now: PS4, no question.

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Fish ai....

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Deej mentioned on the forums that it is actually the other way around. The reason Bungie has been showing stuff with Sony so much is not because Bungie has been asking for that attention, but because Sony has been inviting Bungie. I don't know why Microsoft hasn't been inviting Bungie, but Bungie is definitely not going out of their way to show favoritism.

EDIT: Here is the post DeeJ made about it.

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Makes sense, really. Sony is doubtless very excited to have Bungie making a game for their system, and eager to make everyone who liked Halo (and bought an XBox) aware that the developer of that series is now making a PlayStation game. Microsoft, on the other hand, is at best ambivalent, and at worst possibly a little butthurt about Bungie becoming independent.

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(I know, I know; I've just found it's a lot easier to put gamer factionalism aside when you own all the major platforms; for example, owning a PS3 showed me that it was easily the worst console of the previous generation).

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PS4 at the moment, but that could change.

The controller looks enough like the old one (ergonomically) that I still think I'll hate that aspect.

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The controller looks enough like the old one (ergonomically) that I still think I'll hate that aspect.

I've grown very fond of the 360 controller, and share the same aversion to the PS controllers. However, I was reading the most recent Gameinformer, and they had some developer quotes regarding the DualShock 4 that may help take away a bit of that aversion. Ultimately, I'm gonna have to feel the controller before I decide if I like it or not. Here's those quotes:

DriveClub game director Col Rogers
"We have very high framerate on the analog controllers and things like that, so we get much more accurate steering response. All the items like the touchpad and the lips on the control sticks make the new controller much better to use than the previous iterations."

Killzone: Shadow Fall game director Steven ter Heide
"We were less worried about new features and more concerned with things like reducing lag and having a good feel to the controller. We've seen some pretty wild experiments over the years where we were experimenting with various things, but we're very happy with the new things like the touchpad and the light bar and how they can be used for gameplay."

Infamous Second Son producer Brian Fleming
"We've been working with Sony for 15 years, and this time is different. That's just fact. It's crazy the level of involvement relative to prior generations. The head of the hardware team has visited us multiple times. It's not like Sucker Punch is magical. It speaks to their process this time around, and it's helped us be in a position to where we're really excited for the platform."

And finally
Bungie COO Pete Parsons
"Sony's hardware design team was great. They contacted us early in the process to get feedback on the DualShock 4. We make action games, and our feedback was simple. We wanted to make sure that the DS4 really paired up well with Destiny's gameplay. For us, that meant the controller needed to feel more substantial, and the triggers needed to be concave."

Things like this, Sony's deeper involvement with developers and reaching out to them for feedback, or the Indie-friendly approach they're taking, make me more excited for the PS4 right now. For me, if it all boils down to "I like everything about the PS4 except the controller" then I'm just gonna get a PS4. If I really need an Xbox controller, then I'm sure someone will figure that problem out, like these guys did.

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The controller looks enough like the old one (ergonomically) that I still think I'll hate that aspect.

Really? It looks like an extreme ergonomic redesign to me. The old dualshock asks that you sort of rest it across your fingers. The new one looks like it's handles are actually meant to be gripped.

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The controller looks enough like the old one (ergonomically) that I still think I'll hate that aspect.

Really? It looks like an extreme ergonomic redesign to me. The old dualshock asks that you sort of rest it across your fingers. The new one looks like it's handles are actually meant to be gripped.

[image]
The handles still don't look tapered enough for my tastes.

[image]
They are also closer to being parallel, which means that your wrists bend slightly. I'm hoping for a dongle of some sort that will allow the use of an Xbox controller, but I fear that with the new bells and whistles, that will prove more difficult.

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I can't seem to comfortably play using that left analog stick for long.

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I can't seem to comfortably play using that left analog stick for long.

If I end up getting a PS4 for Destiny, which there is a significant chance of, I just want to be sure I can use a 360 controller with it. I'm not even going to bother Googling hax for it. I'm sure they exist for the PS3, let's just hope it's a simple-ish process for the PS4. I've never, ever liked the PS controller. This new design doesn't fill me with too much hope, either.

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To allay at least a few concerns about the XBO and the Kinect:

XBO Kinect Won't Be Used to Spy On You, Camera Can Be Switched Off

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I'm going to be purchasing a PS4 at launch. As the next Halo game gets released is when I will be happy to pick up an Xbox One.

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Sony's president confirmed that all games that don't require use of the camera or other specific hardware will be playable through remote play on the PS Vita. This all but guarantees that I will be getting Destiny for the PS4 since I will be able to play Destiny on a portable.

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Seems to me that Sony is giving both Nintendo and Microsoft a run for their money in the peripheral department too. Does it do remote play as well as the WiiU? Is it's camera as capable (and creepy) as the Kinect? Maybe, maybe not; but if it does both of those things well enough in its own right, that may not matter. In my opinion, and based on what (little) we know right now, the Xbox One will be carried largely by its exclusive titles and the remaining brand loyalty among gamers. And I could be totally wrong :) Either way, I'm very curious to see what E3 brings, apart from the Destiny part of the show.

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I got a Vita for my girlfriend for her birthday next month. This news makes me sway a little more towards the PS4 side. Though I'm sure I'll get an Xbox one eventually- I love my Halo, after all.

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I got a Vita for my girlfriend for her birthday next month. This news makes me sway a little more towards the PS4 side. Though I'm sure I'll get an Xbox one eventually- I love my Halo, after all.

Yeah... I'm still going to get an XBO, but now I'm going to have to save up for two systems.

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This may have just convinced me to buy a Vita, after being on the fence about buying one for a few months.

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It seems to be the common trend for some right now. There is just too much on the table to go right in an pick on of the future consoles. E3 leading up to Bungie Day will be the deciding time for me. I've read many articles on both sides of the equation, but I've been an Xbox fan since Halo CE came out, not to mention that nearly all of my online friends are on Xbox as well.

We'll see what happens!

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Oculus Rift

#vomitousmass

Listen to this man

Listen to this man

Oculus Rift

I'm hoping for the Xbox One

I'm hoping for the Xbox One

I'm hoping for the Xbox One

REAL LIFE - The Game

XBO

XBO

XBO

Haha

XBO - agreed

XBO - agreed

XBO - agreed

Yep.

XBO - agreed

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

XBO: IT'S ALL CLAUDE'S FAULT

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

They came with ads, and I said nothing...

PSA: SDOJ

PS4 vs XBO?

We are aligned in this, more or less

We are aligned in this, more or less

We are aligned in this, more or less

We are aligned in this, more or less

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

I'm not sure how serious you guys are...

I'm not sure how serious you guys are...

I'm not sure how serious you guys are...

I'm not sure how serious you guys are...

I'm not sure how serious you guys are...

PS4 vs XBO?

Right now I'm inclined toward PS4.

Dreamcast 2

Dreamcast 2

PS4 for now

PS4 for now

PS4 for now

I hate being a gamer :(

Kinect

Kinect

Kinect

Kinect

Very creepy.

Kinect

Kinect

*Spit-take*

I hate being a gamer :(

I hate being a gamer :(

I hate being a gamer :(

I'll decide in two weeks.

PS4

Which has Bungie's support?

Fish AI

Actually it's the other way around...

Actually it's the other way around...

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

DualShock 4

PS4 vs XBO?

PS4 vs XBO?

Spit-take