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What I'm Worried About (Destiny)
by Morpheus , High Charity, Friday, September 18, 2015, 04:08 (3450 days ago)
Bungie's almost forcing me to get rid of my Year 1 stuff. And to be honest, I'm not up for it. I've gotten some beautiful weapons with some amazing lucky perks, and I don't want to give that up. Especially for Blues with "critical health" perks as their only bonus. I haven't gotten any Legendary items yet--I have so many quests now I can't even keep them straight--but here's my problems:
1. These new weapons peeling out--they DO have higher light and whatnot, but they still behave like their Year 1 counterparts: One perk or less, low stats on a most of their qualities, and near worthless dismantles. So they're still awesome, but they still suck. I'm getting rid of a Blue or Green that dwarfs my Legendaries/Exotics, but I'm still getting literally just one Weapon Part/Armor Piece. It's confusing and taking my brain for a loop.
2. This new Light system isn't as awesome as people think. Having high Light levels is great, but the main problem is that's with a near-genetic level of specifics in order to make that work. To get Light level X, you HAVE to have this exact weapon on, despite its useless perk in a certain situation; you HAVE to wear this exact armor, despite it drastically lowering your Intellect and Strength. You HAVE to be using this exact Ghost, even though it's detecting Spinmetal...on the Dreadnaught. You HAVE to wear this exact class item, even though it's ugly as all unholy hot garbage pizza hole.
Armor may have been a more unflinching compromise in Year 1--with Etheric Light and all, you may have had to sacrifice your personal preference in appearance for the power you needed to make it through a Prison or a Nightfall more easily, but in terms of weapons, you were free to make whatever choices you wanted. You could go into Crota's End with a Bad Juju and a Hunger of Crota, or a Fatebringer/Gjallarhorn, or whatever combo you felt comfortable with and it didn't matter because you were level Thirty-X; regardless of what your armor held, your weapons still did damage independently. Now you HAVE to go into battle with this extremely specific weapon, armor, and even personalizaton set just so you can be strong enough for this and that.
3. And finally, floodgates. Again, I don't want to get rid of (most of) my Year 1 weapons. They're great, they're special, they're rare, and not to be selfish, but they're mine. But I am getting non-stop engrams and pieces from everywhere--again, all greens and blues. How I'd love for something like this beforehand--where I could actually throw something away. But now, they're all stronger than everything I've got! And it's forcing me to keep more and more of the Year Two items in order to finish quests and missions! Which of course, immediately puts my space at jeopardy. Every time--and I say this without exaggeration--literally every time I do a new mission or quest or even a Dreadnaught Patrol--I come back home and my Postmaster is overflowing! Drowning in engrams and blues I can't pick up because of all the OTHER blues and engrams I already picked up out in space--again, the most common Y2 low level stuff is making my Y1 treasures falling to their knees. Right now I have an Axiom Coven--the green boot--with not a single perk--easily outclassing my maxed out Deathsinger's Herald--Heavy Weapon Ammo and Swordbearer's Touch. So I have to put more of my Legendaries in the Vault, and delete any Blues that aren't a single light level higher. And I don't have room for all that! I was fighting against some Taken earlier today, and right in the middle of shooting, I said "And my Fatebringer's in the Vault." So I'm shooting with this Blue Auto Rifle and my 2nd favorite primary weapon is gathering dust. And I can't sit still while waiting for my companion app to STILL load, so I'm in a quandary.
Is getting rid of everything I've grown to love and excel with the only way to improve?
Agree with a lot - I think
by Oholiab , Friday, September 18, 2015, 04:28 (3450 days ago) @ Morpheus
I'm not sure I'm allowed to have an opinion yet because I haven't played more than a couple hours; I haven't even completed the next campaign story - er - quest - where I'm supposed to get intel from a Cabal ship on the Dreadnaught (yeah, I'm that far behind).
Even so, I agree with your points, although my engram pick-up has not been nearly as much as yours. I found myself having to put several favorite Y1 weapons in the vault just to make room for green engrams I might find along the way.
For better or worse (probably worse), I refuse to equip armor with perks I won't benefit from - like anything that involves auto rifles, scout rifles or pulse rifles. Am I wrong to choose perks over a better light level?
I refuse to stop using Fatebringer, and at this point in my campaign - dang - quest progress, it's still seems more powerful than other handcannons of higher light. I don't have time to try and understand what I don't understand.
Like I said at the outset, I'm not that far along, and I hope that the system improves so that I can enjoy the perks I want while also being able to tackle higher level content. Maybe I'm just really confused and overwhelmed by the newness that is TTK.
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What I'm Worried About
by stabbim , Des Moines, IA, USA, Friday, September 18, 2015, 04:50 (3450 days ago) @ Morpheus
This is part of the reason I haven't picked up TTK yet (the other part is that I just don't want to spend any money right now).
All that time, all that effort, just gone. It's crap. I understand why they do it, but I'm not sure I'm interested in continuing to pour money in when all my effort just gets reset every few months. Part of the fun of RPGs for me is putting together a perfect gear set, and I'm not too excited about just having to give it up. House of Wolves made me feel like Bungie understood that. Then they like... forgot, or something. Argh. I mean, what was the point of etheric light in the long term?
The really unfortunate thing is that, other than this gear issue, it sounds like most of the other changes are things I'd really enjoy. The new subclasses sure look like fun.
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It's a very good point...
by nico, Friday, September 18, 2015, 05:21 (3450 days ago) @ Morpheus
edited by nico, Friday, September 18, 2015, 05:28
…and I agree with you.
It's possible a player can build an emotional investment with that one first gen Timur's that got rerolled to the tune of dozens of motes until it got the perks and became the faithful friend…
Now some people would say "why would you get attached to a bunch of pixels," but for some players, emotional investment in pixels is pretty much what these sorts of games are all about.
I'm sure there are valid pragmatic reasons why Y1 weapons and armor can't be upgraded to be Y2 equivalents, I'm not sure what they are, but they probably involve balance, and the desire to not have everyone using a Fatebringer or Gally across the board.
A thought comes to mind if actually upgrading Y1 to Y2 specs is out of the question:
As someone who played WoW back in the day, the introduction of transmogrification a few years back was the last most fun feature that franchise introduced.
If you're not familiar, transmogrification allows you to take item A, say a Y2 legendary helmet, and apply the model of another helmet, say a VoG raid helmet for example, or in the previous example, to take your Fatebringer model and apply it to a Y2 legendary pistol.
I'm sure transmogrification has been discussed ad nauseam in the past and Bungie has valid reasons for not implementing it, but I think it is one way to give those of us with an eye for nostalgia some satisfaction, and you could actually end up seeing some "faction" uniforms (FWC, DO, NM), which might be kind of fun, not to mention a great glimmer / resource sink.
For my part, I'm saddened that class items (cloaks especially) now serve an armor function. I saved almost all of my green cloaks while leveling because I thought some of those models were really pretty, but aside from sitting in the vault, they can't be worn without losing quite a bit of armor.
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It's a very good point...
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Friday, September 18, 2015, 12:47 (3449 days ago) @ nico
For my part, I'm saddened that class items (cloaks especially) now serve an armor function. I saved almost all of my green cloaks while leveling because I thought some of those models were really pretty, but aside from sitting in the vault, they can't be worn without losing quite a bit of armor.
Yep. Totally agree.
In regards to weapons, I have a nearly full vault, so it's a struggle. I keep telling myself I haven't used and will never have enough time to use most of them, but my Depression-era parents instilled a strong hoarding impulse in me. :)
One idea:
- Give the Gunsmith a long-term off-site storage vault where you can store older unused guns.
- To retrieve a gun you must submit a requisition to Banshee. Because of logistics and security, they can only be delivered on Armsday.
- No more than three requisitions can be submitted during any week, and if not retrieved before the next Armsday the guns go back in the vault.
I refuse to get rid of a lot of gear
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Friday, September 18, 2015, 07:37 (3450 days ago) @ Morpheus
edited by someotherguy, Friday, September 18, 2015, 07:42
My Vault is literally at bursting point. I can fit maybe 5 more guns, and zero armour. I've been deleting Exotics because I know I can get those back more easily than Raid gear. Next up will be Wolf weapons, because they're simple to reacquire. After that, who knows?
I know that in MMOs you have to move on and use new gear, but does that require that I delete mt progress? I might as well have just waited until TTK and started from there if I get rid of all my old prizes.
I'm hoping (and fully expect) that I'll be able to carry less blue junk around with me oncw I find some Legendaries I actually like.that'll free up some space on my character at least.
That all said though, I think the new weapon system (and makjng old gear redundant) is probably the best move for the circumstance. I've had a tonne of fun playing with the new gear because I haven't been able to fall back on my old favourites.
I just wish there was more storage space (or a trophy cabinet!).
Edit: Wow I hate touchscreens. Too many typos to even deal with.
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Full vault? Why?
by ZackDark , Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, September 18, 2015, 10:50 (3449 days ago) @ someotherguy
I've been keeping only a single set of new stuff, just what gets my Light Level to the highest point. Everything else from Year 1 is safely vaulted and the extra space is for smoother decrypting.
I know it is frustrating right now to not be able to choose your perks (unless you're ok with falling behind, that is). However, as with Year 1, I'm sure there will come a time when we're all drowning in good enough gear and will be able to choose quite easily the exact mix and match we want.
Full vault? Why?
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Friday, September 18, 2015, 11:12 (3449 days ago) @ ZackDark
10 VoG weapons, 10 CE weapons, 9 IB weapons, 9 PoE weapons, 9 ToO weapons, 20+ Exotic weapons = 57+ weapons. Plus a few other favourites I still like for Crucible, and a couple new guns I like, and I'm at 71/72.
15 VoG Armour, 15 CE armours, 15 IB, ToO and PoE armours and I'm already up to 60. Variks Class Items is 69, plus another 15 Faction Aours and I'm already overflowing into my characters slots. Add Exotics and I'm drowning.
I will NOT get rid of my Raid gear. I'm sure I'll replace my IB and ToO stuff, so that's a wash, but the Raid gear is now literally worthless. Let me put it on a mannequin and be done with it.
Again - I'm loving the new content, and I feel like this was the right choice. It just hurts, ya know?
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Full vault? Why?
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Friday, September 18, 2015, 11:24 (3449 days ago) @ someotherguy
10 VoG weapons, 10 CE weapons, 9 IB weapons, 9 PoE weapons, 9 ToO weapons, 20+ Exotic weapons = 57+ weapons. Plus a few other favourites I still like for Crucible, and a couple new guns I like, and I'm at 71/72.
15 VoG Armour, 15 CE armours, 15 IB, ToO and PoE armours and I'm already up to 60. Variks Class Items is 69, plus another 15 Faction Aours and I'm already overflowing into my characters slots. Add Exotics and I'm drowning.
I will NOT get rid of my Raid gear. I'm sure I'll replace my IB and ToO stuff, so that's a wash, but the Raid gear is now literally worthless. Let me put it on a mannequin and be done with it.
Again - I'm loving the new content, and I feel like this was the right choice. It just hurts, ya know?
Wait... There is that much VoG and CE Armor!? Oh, that's full armor + butt towel and then the same for every class. Holy shit man! I would say congrats, but apparently that's also what is causing this turmoil :-)
What can I say? I'm a hoarder ^_^
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Friday, September 18, 2015, 11:43 (3449 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
- No text -
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What can I say? I'm a hoarder ^_^
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Friday, September 18, 2015, 11:45 (3449 days ago) @ someotherguy
I want to be one too, but it's hard to find all the stuff :-)
Full vault? Why?
by TheGhostBrigade, Friday, September 18, 2015, 12:10 (3449 days ago) @ someotherguy
Perhaps for the non raid/exotic guns, you can narrow it down to one of any given archetype? For instance, I have four or five year one HMG's all in the same archetype, low ROf with high impact. I'll probably pick my favorite of the group and dismantle the rest, same with Rocket Launchers, Shotguns, Snipers, ect. It'll hurt but it will ultimately be for the better, and there might be even better weapons to replace them soon.
One other thing, do year one exotics cost anything more than a shard and some glimmer? Can't check at work but I thought that's all you need to pick them back up. They stay fully levelled too so there shouldn't be a worry about that. Consider it throwing them in the bank, you dismantle and get a shard, but you can use that same shard to pick it back up when you want to.
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Full vault? Why?
by MacAddictXIV , Seattle WA, Friday, September 18, 2015, 12:14 (3449 days ago) @ TheGhostBrigade
One other thing, do year one exotics cost anything more than a shard and some glimmer? Can't check at work but I thought that's all you need to pick them back up. They stay fully levelled too so there shouldn't be a worry about that. Consider it throwing them in the bank, you dismantle and get a shard, but you can use that same shard to pick it back up when you want to.
I was under the impression that when you remade them they started off unlevelled.
Me too. Will test when I get home.
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Friday, September 18, 2015, 15:03 (3449 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
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Full vault? Why?
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, September 18, 2015, 18:20 (3449 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV
for Year 2, if you rebuy a weapon from a blue print it starts off unleveled. I picked up a second Boolean Gemini and that was the case.
My recommendation
by petetheduck, Friday, September 18, 2015, 11:14 (3449 days ago) @ Morpheus
Is getting rid of everything I've grown to love and excel with the only way to improve?
Here is what I recommend: Embrace it during these early days of year 2.
When I realized how much new gear the game was throwing at me, I basically turned in all my year 1 gear to the Vault. I kept a couple key pieces--my go-to scout rifle and Gjallarhorn, which I used as needed, but I was free to pick up and experiment with the new gear.
You don't have to dismantle anything, so there's nothing lost if you put your favorite guns on the shelf for while.
Let it go... EDIT: I'm with Pete
by yakaman, Friday, September 18, 2015, 11:20 (3449 days ago) @ Morpheus
...embrace the now. Forget the old stuff - except for Crucible, I think it all still rocks in non-Iron Banner Crucible.
I've got nothing original in my inventory. I'm using sidearms and weird fusion rifles and inefficient shotguns and test weapons for the gunsmith.
It makes it trickier, although way less efficient with can wear on a perfectionist. But I try to remind myself to kill with skill, not leverage. Although your point about light level holds in that regard.
"ugly as all unholy hot garbage pizza hole"
LOL. This is my bane - the best chest or helmet I have at any given time is going to be the ugliest of the 4 I am holding.
In general, understand what you are saying. You can't change it - so maybe try jumping in with both feet?
My buddy still runs with Ghallerhorn...just seems like a waste to me.
Speaking of the gunsmith...
by yakaman, Friday, September 18, 2015, 11:23 (3449 days ago) @ yakaman
I've got nothing original in my inventory. I'm using sidearms and weird fusion rifles and inefficient shotguns and test weapons for the gunsmith.
Yeah, replying to AND referencing my own comment.
I love the look of the gunsmith test guns, but none of the "real" weapons are like them. Does anyone know if the ones we can order will look like these?
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Speaking of the gunsmith...
by SIX min WHISTLE , Michigan, Friday, September 18, 2015, 12:47 (3449 days ago) @ yakaman
I had a legendary shotgun drop somewhere and it was the new square style, though different colors. the couple of handcannons I've got look like the stuff Banshee has had.
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What I'm Worried About
by SIX min WHISTLE , Michigan, Friday, September 18, 2015, 12:42 (3449 days ago) @ Morpheus
2. This new Light system isn't as awesome as people think. Having high Light levels is great, but the main problem is that's with a near-genetic level of specifics in order to make that work. To get Light level X, you HAVE to have this exact weapon on, despite its useless perk in a certain situation; you HAVE to wear this exact armor, despite it drastically lowering your Intellect and Strength. You HAVE to be using this exact Ghost, even though it's detecting Spinmetal...on the Dreadnaught. You HAVE to wear this exact class item, even though it's ugly as all unholy hot garbage pizza hole.
Armor may have been a more unflinching compromise in Year 1--with Etheric Light and all, you may have had to sacrifice your personal preference in appearance for the power you needed to make it through a Prison or a Nightfall more easily, but in terms of weapons, you were free to make whatever choices you wanted. You could go into Crota's End with a Bad Juju and a Hunger of Crota, or a Fatebringer/Gjallarhorn, or whatever combo you felt comfortable with and it didn't matter because you were level Thirty-X; regardless of what your armor held, your weapons still did damage independently. Now you HAVE to go into battle with this extremely specific weapon, armor, and even personalizaton set just so you can be strong enough for this and that.
This is true at the moment but is exactly what the new option to sacrifice higher damage/defense items is for. You are stuck with legendaries, but the idea is to find the gear whose stats/appearance you like and level them up with stuff you don't care about. I think this is a great addition.
The only issue is that it's year 2 only, they really want us to move on to new stuff. But they've said before that they want the experience to change over time, and for us to have different periods of time feel different. I'm not sure if I like this entirely, but I get it and it's better for the hardcore that play a lot. It just sucks if you are a late comer and missed things like wolfpack hunting, Reef bounty hunting, and those kinds of limited time games. The way the game is set up now also leaves anyone not buying Taken King in the dust, with a gutted experience. No Vanguard Playlists, no Nightfall, no Daily mission, Eris and Petra bounties gone, only 3 Crucible playlists.
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What I'm Worried About (slight *SP*)
by slycrel , Friday, September 18, 2015, 15:36 (3449 days ago) @ SIX min WHISTLE
It just sucks if you are a late comer and missed things like wolfpack hunting, Reef bounty hunting, and those kinds of limited time games. The way the game is set up now also leaves anyone not buying Taken King in the dust, with a gutted experience. No Vanguard Playlists, no Nightfall, no Daily mission, Eris and Petra bounties gone, only 3 Crucible playlists.
Note that one of the quests variks has you do involves going to mars, finding some prowling wolves, and taking out a mini-boss. So it's not all gone forever.
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Light needs unlockable Tiers
by Schedonnardus, Texas, Friday, September 18, 2015, 13:24 (3449 days ago) @ Morpheus
Once you hit a Tier, you can equip anything you want, and not have it go down.
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Light needs unlockable Tiers
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, September 18, 2015, 13:39 (3449 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
Guessing this would cause major problems with events such as Iron Banner. If I'm at 290 light and can't go down, then what would stop me from using Felwinters, Jolders Hammer, Mida, etc...
I still hate losing my old weapons, but I think this is their way of forcing us to year 2 gear.
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Light needs unlockable Tiers
by Schedonnardus, Texas, Friday, September 18, 2015, 14:27 (3449 days ago) @ unoudid
Guessing this would cause major problems with events such as Iron Banner. If I'm at 290 light and can't go down, then what would stop me from using Felwinters, Jolders Hammer, Mida, etc...
I still hate losing my old weapons, but I think this is their way of forcing us to year 2 gear.
your feltwinters would be at 170 damage, while everyone else is running 300 damage/defense.
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Light needs unlockable Tiers
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, September 18, 2015, 14:34 (3449 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
your feltwinters would be at 170 damage, while everyone else is running 300 damage/defense.
Would that just mean that your light tier is essentially an equivalent to your character level then?
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All of those items still rock in the Crucible
by Kahzgul, Friday, September 18, 2015, 14:39 (3449 days ago) @ Morpheus
Bungie's almost forcing me to get rid of my Year 1 stuff. And to be honest, I'm not up for it. I've gotten some beautiful weapons with some amazing lucky perks, and I don't want to give that up. Especially for Blues with "critical health" perks as their only bonus. I haven't gotten any Legendary items yet--I have so many quests now I can't even keep them straight--but here's my problems:
1. These new weapons peeling out--they DO have higher light and whatnot, but they still behave like their Year 1 counterparts: One perk or less, low stats on a most of their qualities, and near worthless dismantles. So they're still awesome, but they still suck. I'm getting rid of a Blue or Green that dwarfs my Legendaries/Exotics, but I'm still getting literally just one Weapon Part/Armor Piece. It's confusing and taking my brain for a loop.
2. This new Light system isn't as awesome as people think. Having high Light levels is great, but the main problem is that's with a near-genetic level of specifics in order to make that work. To get Light level X, you HAVE to have this exact weapon on, despite its useless perk in a certain situation; you HAVE to wear this exact armor, despite it drastically lowering your Intellect and Strength. You HAVE to be using this exact Ghost, even though it's detecting Spinmetal...on the Dreadnaught. You HAVE to wear this exact class item, even though it's ugly as all unholy hot garbage pizza hole.
Armor may have been a more unflinching compromise in Year 1--with Etheric Light and all, you may have had to sacrifice your personal preference in appearance for the power you needed to make it through a Prison or a Nightfall more easily, but in terms of weapons, you were free to make whatever choices you wanted. You could go into Crota's End with a Bad Juju and a Hunger of Crota, or a Fatebringer/Gjallarhorn, or whatever combo you felt comfortable with and it didn't matter because you were level Thirty-X; regardless of what your armor held, your weapons still did damage independently. Now you HAVE to go into battle with this extremely specific weapon, armor, and even personalizaton set just so you can be strong enough for this and that.
3. And finally, floodgates. Again, I don't want to get rid of (most of) my Year 1 weapons. They're great, they're special, they're rare, and not to be selfish, but they're mine. But I am getting non-stop engrams and pieces from everywhere--again, all greens and blues. How I'd love for something like this beforehand--where I could actually throw something away. But now, they're all stronger than everything I've got! And it's forcing me to keep more and more of the Year Two items in order to finish quests and missions! Which of course, immediately puts my space at jeopardy. Every time--and I say this without exaggeration--literally every time I do a new mission or quest or even a Dreadnaught Patrol--I come back home and my Postmaster is overflowing! Drowning in engrams and blues I can't pick up because of all the OTHER blues and engrams I already picked up out in space--again, the most common Y2 low level stuff is making my Y1 treasures falling to their knees. Right now I have an Axiom Coven--the green boot--with not a single perk--easily outclassing my maxed out Deathsinger's Herald--Heavy Weapon Ammo and Swordbearer's Touch. So I have to put more of my Legendaries in the Vault, and delete any Blues that aren't a single light level higher. And I don't have room for all that! I was fighting against some Taken earlier today, and right in the middle of shooting, I said "And my Fatebringer's in the Vault." So I'm shooting with this Blue Auto Rifle and my 2nd favorite primary weapon is gathering dust. And I can't sit still while waiting for my companion app to STILL load, so I'm in a quandary.
Is getting rid of everything I've grown to love and excel with the only way to improve?
Don't trash them yet; your perfect perk and feel weapons are just as effective in the crucible as they ever were. The armor is *almost* as effective (because of lower stat values on them and the fact that you will eventually reach level 40 and want the higher stat armors).
As for your points with regards to PvE:
1) You will be replacing gear at a prodigious rate as you level up and explore TTK. Don't fret. Also, for the main TTK story, everything is such low level for most of it that your year 1 weapons are still the superior option as far as what to use. That being said, please be sure to always keep your highest light level gear handy to equip as you decrypt engrams (I'm going to post a how-to guide elsewhere).
2) The new light system doesn't actually work that way at all, I'm happy to report. If you have legendary armor X - which you love - with light 255 on it, but get a new rare armor Y - which kinda sucks balls - with light 264 on it, you can imbue your legendary armor with the new armor (consuming the new armor and a small number of materials in the process) to raise the light level on your old armor, keeping it relevant. Yes, your year 1 armors are no longer good for endgame PvE. Frankly, that's how progression works in any game. There are items aplenty for you to get that have equally interesting perks, better stats, and cool art, so don't panic.
3) As I mentioned above, your crucible favorite weapons are still valuable. For PvE, your light 170 weapons are great through the story missions. The exotics still perform really well (I'm now light 261 and still use my 170 icebreaker fairly often). Obviously if you do the "abandoned quests" those are all from years 1 and 2, so your old weapons and armor are fully effective. For the new endgame content, you'll want higher light level items, but there's enough leeway that you can totally get away with using a lower light level weapon in one slot. Remember, it's not the value of that single weapon that determines its effectiveness anymore, but rather your personal light level. If all of your gear is 260 and you want to equip a 170 fatebringer, it may knock you down to, say 256 total light. Slightly lower, but not at all ineffective.
You don't need to get rid of everything in order to improve, but you also will need to cull the herd a little. Don't be a hoarder - you can always buy back ships, shaders, and emblems for free, and year 1 exotics are pretty cheap to buy as well. The legendaries will, most likely, be replaced down the line, but I'd hang on to the ones you like until you find a new one you like just as much.