NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far? (Destiny)
by yakaman, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:20 (3447 days ago)
Still blind, so please no spoilers.
In general, how is it? Interesting? More of the same? Difficult? Not-so-difficult? Better than VoG? Etc.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Schedonnardus, Texas, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:27 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
I've only played half of it, but i have really enjoyed it.
The first major encounter was a lot of fun. The second, well, still working on it. I think once a good system is ironed out, it will go a lot more smoothly.
They definitely spent a lot of time polishing this one. So far, i would venture to say it's better than Crota's End. I think just getting to (and through) the halfway point is nearly as long and covers as much ground as the Crota raid.
I have a lot of VoG nostalgia, so I can't really say if it's better or not. From what i have seen so far, i think this Raid stands the chance to be bigger. Others that have made it through can comment on whether that is true or not.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:33 (3447 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
I have a lot of VoG nostalgia, so I can't really say if it's better or not. From what i have seen so far, i think this Raid stands the chance to be bigger. Others that have made it through can comment on whether that is true or not.
It certainly feels bigger than the VoG to me, but that could be because of all the time it's taken to iron out how to handle these encounters. Like I said, I'm excited to see how it compares to the VoG once we've got the mechanics down pat. Certainly feels like there could be more hidden things to find in it.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:30 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
Still blind, so please no spoilers.
In general, how is it? Interesting? More of the same? Difficult? Not-so-difficult? Better than VoG? Etc.
Lots of fun. Big, long, vast. Similar but quite different mechanics. I'd say not so difficult, unless you're blind, then its harder. It's very much on par with the VoG. There's more to it though.
I'll be interested to see how I think it compares after we've all got the mechanics down pat like we do w/ the VoG or Crota's End. Especially the length of it.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:34 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
Half way through so far and I have enjoyed it for the most part. The mechanics are interesting and challenging when doing this blind. Hopefully we can make it to Oryx still going in to it blind.
I think Bungie has made this raid in a way that will really force people to work as a team and that's awesome (and frustrating). from the get go it's obvious this was designed in a way that you can't solo the raid anymore.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:39 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
Still blind, so please no spoilers.
In general, how is it? Interesting? More of the same? Difficult? Not-so-difficult? Better than VoG? Etc.
I think it's the best raid yet by far. Mechanically it makes the Vault of Glass look like child's play, and there are no bullet sponge mobs like Crota's end. It is way more team and coordination focused than either previous raid. There's one boss fight in particular that has you and your team synchronizing like 3 things at once.
There is no soloing this one.
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I did not enjoy my experience.
by Funkmon , Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:43 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
edited by Funkmon, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:48
Still blind, so please no spoilers.
In general, how is it? Interesting? More of the same? Difficult? Not-so-difficult? Better than VoG? Etc.
I don't like it from what I've done so far. From what I've seen of the rest, I don't anticipate liking it.
Interesting? No.
More of the same? No.
Difficult? Yes.
Better than VoG? I don't think so.
I think this raid was built with the mechanics in mind first, then a framework on top of them, with only a couple exceptions. It seems like they said "all right, what will be hard?" then threw in the actual content of the raid. There are a couple of really really cool sections, cooler than anything in VoG in my opinion, but it's not a "oh, cool!" thing every time you go to a new area.
To me, each encounter I experienced seemed like it was made not to challenging and rewarding upon finishing, but created to make sure 6 people are there doing it, and make it very difficult.
It feels like a bunch of people were in a room planning this raid. Very vaaaaague hints at mechanics follow. You'll be fine to read them, I think.
One said "hey, let's have the guys fight a boss here!"
"All right, but to damage him, they have to get a buff."
"Great! But to get the buff they have to kill a ton of enemies."
"No, no, kill a ton of enemies, then solve a puzzle!"
"Oh, I like it. Seems too easy, though. What if the buff goes away unless they do some other stuff?"
"Good! But they will become too good at that eventually. Let's make it so they are forced to do it on a very set schedule."
"Can we throw adds at them as well?"
"Obviously. But we're going to need to make sure they can't run from the adds. Let's arrange something so they have to say in one specific place to do it."
"This is sounding good. Let's throw a timer on it."
"How about a death limit, so if someone fucks up, it screws the whole team?"
"YES."
Then they built the raid on these encounters. Vault felt more like an experience with challenging bosses. Crota felt similar, like a really new experience. With only a couple exceptions, this raid feels like Bungie just tried to make something hard.
I don't like hard stuff. I like my games to be fun, not 6 hour odysseys of figuratively slamming my head against a wall only to figure out we missed a fundamental step, then slowly learning to hate my raid partners for no fault of their own, particularly when I like all of them. Screw that. I'm going to wait to do this raid until later when everyone knows how it works.
EDIT: I think I will enjoy the raid more when it's easier, but probably not much more. I'd prefer a simple mechanic and a hard boss over an easy boss and a hard mechanic any day.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:48 (3447 days ago) @ Funkmon
I don't like hard stuff. I like my games to be fun, not 6 hour odysseys of figuratively slamming my head against a wall only to figure out we missed a fundamental step, then slowly learning to hate my raid partners for no fault of their own, particularly when I like all of them. Screw that. I'm going to wait to do this raid until later when everyone knows how it works.
It's hard because you don't know the best strategies, and you have shit gear. Remember when I said on here after doing Vault of Glass for the first time it was ultra hardcore and only a minority would finish? That flawless raider was impossible? Look how that turned out. Vault felt this hard from the get go as well, but we all know that once things are figured out and you have the perfect gear and strategy for each encounter it goes much more smoothly.
It's only a matter of time before DBO people are running it weekly in under 90 minutes. But that's just the nature of shared knowledge. If that's when you want to start, that's fine. I myself enjoyed figuring it all out, because some of it is crazy tough. I still don't exactly know how we pieced together how to do Oryx's Daughters. The lows of being stumped are more than made up for by the highs of success.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Funkmon , Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:52 (3447 days ago) @ Cody Miller
I think we'll be blasting through it in 45 minutes or less by November. I know I'll like it more when it's easier. But, I don't like HOW it's hard. Too complicated for me to really enjoy. It's one of the things I didn't like about Skolas or hard crota when we were 32. You don't have as much room for a fuckup on the team.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:54 (3447 days ago) @ Funkmon
I think we'll be blasting through it in 45 minutes or less by November. I know I'll like it more when it's easier. But, I don't like HOW it's hard. Too complicated for me to really enjoy. It's one of the things I didn't like about Skolas or hard crota when we were 32. You don't have as much room for a fuckup on the team.
That's funny, because I felt like it was hard in the best way. Crota was hard in the worst way. Lots of big tough bullet sponges who were a level above you. This is tough because you have to coordinate and execute.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by unoudid , Somewhere over the rainbow, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:59 (3447 days ago) @ Cody Miller
That's funny, because I felt like it was hard in the best way. Crota was hard in the worst way. Lots of big tough bullet sponges who were a level above you. This is tough because you have to coordinate and execute.
Agreed on the artificial difficulty of the Crota raid. But even with coordination, they still felt like bullet sponges somewhat.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Funkmon , Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:16 (3447 days ago) @ Cody Miller
I think we'll be blasting through it in 45 minutes or less by November. I know I'll like it more when it's easier. But, I don't like HOW it's hard. Too complicated for me to really enjoy. It's one of the things I didn't like about Skolas or hard crota when we were 32. You don't have as much room for a fuckup on the team.
That's funny, because I felt like it was hard in the best way. Crota was hard in the worst way. Lots of big tough bullet sponges who were a level above you. This is tough because you have to coordinate and execute.
I agree with you there. But I DON'T think normal Crota was hard in a bad way. It was perfectly fine. Hard crota DID feel unfair, though.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:54 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
Still blind, so please no spoilers.
In general, how is it? Interesting? More of the same? Difficult? Not-so-difficult? Better than VoG? Etc.
Love love love it. Every encounter feels challenging and demanding without feeling overly punishing. Great mechanics that build in complexity as you go.
The pacing is really well done, too. Plenty of intense action, but nice stretches without gunfire as well. And the encounters themselves seem well paced. Nothing as long or drawn out as the Templar's Well in VoG, nor is there anything like the "standing around waiting for the boss to to move" that plagued the end of Crota.
In terms of the overall feel of the raid, I think it is closer to VoG than Crota. It feels vast in a way that Crota doesn't. I'm pretty sure it is substantially larger than VoG as well. You really get the sense that your fireteam is on an epic journey of Tolkein-proportions. The environment feels vast and ancient.
I do have a soft spot for VoG. Particularly the environment. Something about delving deeper and deeper into those caves really clicked with me. I'm not really a fan of the Hive aesthetic in general. I got tired of the dreadnought quite quickly (love all the activities to do in there, just don't like the playspace itself). That being said, I think Bungie has done a great job of creating a raid that takes place within a Hive ship without sending us down endless gross, gooey hallways. There is a lot of variety to the locations as you play through them.
My 1 complaint (if you can even call it that) is that many of the environments in King's End feel extremely "gamey" compared to VoG or even Crota. I kept thinking back to that moment in Galaxy Quest where they need to run down the hallway with the fire traps and pieces of wall slamming together and one of the characters starts complaining "why does this place even exist in a starship? What purpose does any of this serve?!" So in that sense it's not as immersive as the old raids (VoG in particular), and I could see that bothering some players who like to dive a little more deeply into the "role playing" side of things. But it didn't bother me at all because I found it all so mechanically fun and rewarding :)
TL;DR It's awesome :D
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, September 21, 2015, 17:57 (3447 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
My 1 complaint (if you can even call it that) is that many of the environments in King's End feel extremely "gamey" compared to VoG or even Crota. I kept thinking back to that moment in Galaxy Quest where they need to run down the hallway with the fire traps and pieces of wall slamming together and one of the characters starts complaining "why does this place even exist in a starship? What purpose does any of this serve?!" So in that sense it's not as immersive as the old raids (VoG in particular), and I could see that bothering some players who like to dive a little more deeply into the "role playing" side of things. But it didn't bother me at all because I found it all so mechanically fun and rewarding :)
This worries me--I like explanations that fit the story. Regardless, I'm still excited.
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by cheapLEY , Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:01 (3447 days ago) @ Kermit
My 1 complaint (if you can even call it that) is that many of the environments in King's End feel extremely "gamey" compared to VoG or even Crota. I kept thinking back to that moment in Galaxy Quest where they need to run down the hallway with the fire traps and pieces of wall slamming together and one of the characters starts complaining "why does this place even exist in a starship? What purpose does any of this serve?!" So in that sense it's not as immersive as the old raids (VoG in particular), and I could see that bothering some players who like to dive a little more deeply into the "role playing" side of things. But it didn't bother me at all because I found it all so mechanically fun and rewarding :)
This worries me--I like explanations that fit the story. Regardless, I'm still excited.
I'm in the same boat there, Kermit.
But this makes me ridiculously excited for it:
In terms of the overall feel of the raid, I think it is closer to VoG than Crota. It feels vast in a way that Crota doesn't. I'm pretty sure it is substantially larger than VoG as well. You really get the sense that your fireteam is on an epic journey of Tolkein-proportions. The environment feels vast and ancient.
It sounds great!
I can't wait for Friday!
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:04 (3447 days ago) @ Kermit
My 1 complaint (if you can even call it that) is that many of the environments in King's End feel extremely "gamey" compared to VoG or even Crota. I kept thinking back to that moment in Galaxy Quest where they need to run down the hallway with the fire traps and pieces of wall slamming together and one of the characters starts complaining "why does this place even exist in a starship? What purpose does any of this serve?!" So in that sense it's not as immersive as the old raids (VoG in particular), and I could see that bothering some players who like to dive a little more deeply into the "role playing" side of things. But it didn't bother me at all because I found it all so mechanically fun and rewarding :)
This worries me--I like explanations that fit the story. Regardless, I'm still excited.
It would bother me more in a single-player story mission, where's its just me and the game and immersion is everything. But in the context of a raid, where we're all laughing and joking and talking about a bunch of random stuff, I don't mind content that sacrifices a bit of in-universe believably in service of fun activities for your group.
It really is a testament to the VoG team that they were able to nail both sides :)
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:01 (3447 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
My 1 complaint (if you can even call it that) is that many of the environments in King's End feel extremely "gamey" compared to VoG or even Crota.
What? it totally makes sense that the ship would have moving pistons on dangerously narrow walkways. Every evil villain ever has unsafe shit in his hideout!
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NO SPOILERS PLEASE - how do people like the Raid so far?
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:04 (3447 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
The pacing is really well done, too. Plenty of intense action, but nice stretches without gunfire as well. And the encounters themselves seem well paced. Nothing as long or drawn out as the Templar's Well in VoG, nor is there anything like the "standing around waiting for the boss to to move" that plagued the end of Crota.
I've been very impressed with the pacing of it. It is certainly nice to have a break from the hardcore mechanics and do some more exploratory type stuff. I think Bungie did great with that aspect of it.
I do have a soft spot for VoG. Particularly the environment. Something about delving deeper and deeper into those caves really clicked with me. I'm not really a fan of the Hive aesthetic in general. I got tired of the dreadnought quite quickly (love all the activities to do in there, just don't like the playspace itself). That being said, I think Bungie has done a great job of creating a raid that takes place within a Hive ship without sending us down endless gross, gooey hallways. There is a lot of variety to the locations as you play through them.
Yes. The VoG is just... prettier & less depressing. VoG = Lush, Cave Exploring, fascinating architecture, CE = Gray-Blue Necrotic Cathedral, KF = Gray-Tan/Gold Gothic Cathedral (with a little outer space). While I've been surprised at how warm it feels, it's still off-putting. I wish there were more outer-space vistas in this raid. I like outerspace. :)
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On that note... *spoilers*
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:11 (3447 days ago) @ dogcow
I wish there were more outer-space vistas in this raid. I like outerspace. :)
If we group up tonight, make sure you run to the very end of the final boss room and look out over the edge before Oryx shows up. You get a great view of what appears to be the large crossing where we rode the ships :)
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On that note... *spoilers*
by Funkmon , Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:18 (3447 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
I must say, the ship crossing thing was probably the coolest thing I have ever done in a video game. It makes me want Destiny as a PC game and an HTC Vive to do that in VR.
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On that note... *spoilers*
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:25 (3447 days ago) @ Funkmon
I must say, the ship crossing thing was probably the coolest thing I have ever done in a video game. It makes me want Destiny as a PC game and an HTC Vive to do that in VR.
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On that note... *spoilers*
by Funkmon , Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:30 (3447 days ago) @ Cody Miller
My experience was slightly different. I used an early Oculus my friend had to play Half-Life 2. Normal PC controls but my head moved around and the mouse did the gun. I thought it worked fine. I agree with the other stuff you said though.
The Vive demo I did for being an HTC Elevate member on the other hand was like future bullshit. Like I FELT IN THE FUTURE. Totally different experience from the Oculus.
I am concerned that some areas, once done 3-4 times, will become tedious. Time will tell. Everyone does have to be on their game and that can sometimes cause grief as funkmon points out. If you have a consistent group this likely won't be an issue. Pickups will be much less forgiving.
I am the opposite of some I think -- I don't like jumping puzzles much. Others hate some of the complex boss mechanics where I love figuring out that stuff. There are things in here that will appeal to everyone.
Make sure to watch the humorous video I'm sure Cruel has/will post about the section after the second boss. That may have been the best surprise of it all. =)
Overall a very fun experience. 8/10 thus far, and I'm sure that will change as things progress and secrets are found.
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I really like it. *link to video w/ spoiler*
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:07 (3447 days ago) @ slycrel
edited by CruelLEGACEY, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:33
Make sure to watch the humorous video I'm sure Cruel has/will post about the section after the second boss. That may have been the best surprise of it all. =)
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^Spoiler^
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:35 (3447 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
Well slycrel was talking about a video of a moment in the raid, and I didn't embed the video, so I figured anyone trying to avoid spoilers was safe. I edited the post title just to be extra clear, though :)
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Bungie has mastered comedic timing.
by Funkmon , Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:32 (3447 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
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Bungie has mastered comedic timing.
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:36 (3447 days ago) @ Funkmon
I WISH I'd been recording our party chat... the shouts of surprise followed by laughter were the best part :)
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Ask and ye shall receive. *vid contains spoilers*
by CyberKN
, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Monday, September 21, 2015, 20:27 (3447 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
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Surprisingly underwhelming reaction.
by Funkmon , Monday, September 21, 2015, 22:40 (3447 days ago) @ CyberKN
An Xbone crew would have reacted differently.
Chris: (yelling) What the ****** was that?!
Zero: (yelling louder) What the fuck?!
Probablylast: *laughing*
Funkmon: You dumb son of a bitch you walked right into it! *laugh*
Chappy: *laughing*
Narcogen: What happened? I'm still back in the boss room.
Then we'd go on about it, making no progress, for about 3 straight minutes.
The PS4 guys take wipeout style traps in stride.
ProbablyLast: Wha...*weasel error*
Favourite part of the Raid
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, September 21, 2015, 20:36 (3447 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
Wish I'd thought to record it.
Thanks all - exactly what I was looking for....
by yakaman, Monday, September 21, 2015, 18:38 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
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For those that finished it . . .
by cheapLEY , Monday, September 21, 2015, 23:11 (3447 days ago) @ yakaman
Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you all?
Kermit's squad is going in on Friday night, and I'm trying to get just some sort of general idea to work my weekend around.
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For those that finished it . . .
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, September 21, 2015, 23:48 (3447 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you all?
Kermit's squad is going in on Friday night, and I'm trying to get just some sort of general idea to work my weekend around.
We took 6 hours total to get to Oryx.
About 12-13 hours
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Tuesday, September 22, 2015, 00:06 (3447 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Second run clocked in around 4(?) hours, but you'll be running blind I assume.
Second run clocked in around 4(?) hours, but you'll be running blind I assume.
Yeah, sure will. Thanks! I was going to double Cody's time because they're all super good. This pretty much confirms it.
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About 12-13 hours
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, September 22, 2015, 05:07 (3447 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Second run clocked in around 4(?) hours, but you'll be running blind I assume.
Yeah, sure will. Thanks! I was going to double Cody's time because they're all super good. This pretty much confirms it.
6 Hours to get to Oryx, and 2 to kill him. So 8 total for the PS4 group.
About 12-13 hours
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Tuesday, September 22, 2015, 08:09 (3447 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Wow, you took way less time than us. We really struggled dealing enough damage with our low light levels.
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About 12-13 hours
by dogcow , Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Tuesday, September 22, 2015, 13:00 (3447 days ago) @ someotherguy
Wow, you took way less time than us. We really struggled dealing enough damage with our low light levels.
I think I was the only one lower than 290 light.
About 12-13 hours
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Tuesday, September 22, 2015, 13:30 (3447 days ago) @ dogcow
Yeah, when we started not even one of us was above 290. Much easier now that we've got some raid drops.