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Is it time to rethink the Bladedancer Class? (Destiny)
by Durandal, Friday, September 25, 2015, 09:56 (3443 days ago)
With the introduction of the Taken King, we have several new subclasses that have changed things up both in PVE and PVP. In addition the game has added new modes, and new levels of customization.
The downside of course is that old weapons and equipment have not kept pace, and perhaps the Bladedancer subclass as well.
The Bladedancer class has always been good at wiping out large groups of low level mobs with a Arc blade and Showstopper, but the risk has been that the class requires you to get up close and personal. This makes yellow bar enemies a major stopping point because they take the whole super or more to take out, and the bladedancer will take hits while fighting. Of course there wasn't much incentive for those match ups because Bladedancers were limited to a max of four orbs.
The other mechanic, stealth, is very useful for emergency nightfall resurrection and sneaking through certain challenges, most notably in CE.
In PVP, Blinking shotgunning blade dancers were second only to Ram using Void warlocks.
TTK has changed all of that. Blink, and to a lesser extent blink strike, are now much reduced in potency. Also, the introduction of the Warlock Stormcaller has really outclassed the Bladedancer.
Stormcallers super generates more orbs, they don't need to get close to mobs, and they have a longer range, lower risk melee. They can even burn down majors without nearly as much risk since they don't even have to enter shotgun range.
In PVP, the same applies. The chain effect makes stormcallers much safer and easier to use, and the longer reach on the stormcaller melee gives that class a large advantage over a comparably equipped bladedancer.
There really needs to be a rethink of the class or it will become a distant third to the Nightstalker/Gunslingers in all aspects of the game.
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Is it time to rethink the Bladedancer Class?
by bluerunner , Music City, Friday, September 25, 2015, 10:18 (3443 days ago) @ Durandal
I ran it just long enough to complete the Bladedancer quest. It did feel incredibly weak. Each hit needs a huge buff in PVE. Plus making 25 orbs for the quest took way too long. If I went through a crowd of red health enemies in a strike I made 2 orbs tops. There was no point in going after majors since it took my entire super to maybe bring it down, and I would probably die while trying.
If they made it a 2 hit kill for majors and increased the orb prodution, then it might be worth using. Right now, I have no desire to use it.
I've tried four times to finish that quest!
by Oholiab , Friday, September 25, 2015, 13:02 (3443 days ago) @ bluerunner
No dice. I can get the 15 kills, but not the three major kills. I think it's mostly because of the up close and personal thing that you alluded to: by the time I can get up close either my teammates have killed the yellow bar, I'm dead from being in the fray, or I simply can't take them down in one super charge. Frustrating!
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I've tried four times to finish that quest!
by bluerunner , Music City, Friday, September 25, 2015, 13:14 (3443 days ago) @ Oholiab
edited by bluerunner, Friday, September 25, 2015, 13:17
Load up Winters Run. There's several, including at the Vex waves in the Cinders. I went after the hobgoblins that spawn in the cave while the randoms were busy with the main crowd. Plus there are the two hydras before the final area that most people just run by. Shoot them until they're almost dead and then super them. There are also yellow bar servitors that spawn during the Archon Priest fight. The randoms are usually shooting the priest, so just shoot the servitor then super it.
Don't do like I did on the gunslinger quest and try it on all those majors in Undying Mind. They don't count. :(
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Omnigal is a good one for that Bladedancer quest
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, September 25, 2015, 13:59 (3443 days ago) @ bluerunner
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Omnigal is a good one for that Bladedancer quest
by bluerunner , Music City, Friday, September 25, 2015, 14:12 (3443 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
That one is good too. I liked Winters Run because there are majors that the randoms usually ignore.
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Pro-tip: Take a Nightstalker with you...
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, September 25, 2015, 15:11 (3443 days ago) @ bluerunner
Load up Winters Run. There's several, including at the Vex waves in the Cinders. I went after the hobgoblins that spawn in the cave while the randoms were busy with the main crowd. Plus there are the two hydras before the final area that most people just run by. Shoot them until they're almost dead and then super them. There are also yellow bar servitors that spawn during the Archon Priest fight. The randoms are usually shooting the priest, so just shoot the servitor then super it.
Don't do like I did on the gunslinger quest and try it on all those majors in Undying Mind. They don't count. :(
Undying Mind (Boss fight has four groups of Majors that spawn), that's how I did my Voidwalker orb portion.
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Yup, undying mind is great for orb generation.
by slycrel , Friday, September 25, 2015, 19:58 (3443 days ago) @ Korny
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Is it time to rethink the Bladedancer Class?
by Funkmon , Friday, September 25, 2015, 10:49 (3443 days ago) @ Durandal
It has always sucked. I used it for 2 things: nightfalls to go invisible to revive people, no wait. That's it. I was never good at blink shotguns.
Is it time to rethink the Bladedancer Class?
by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Friday, September 25, 2015, 10:50 (3443 days ago) @ Durandal
TTK has changed all of that. Blink, and to a lesser extent blink strike, are now much reduced in potency.
I refute that. Blink is no longer an insta-win when paired with a shotgun, but it still makes an excellent panic button and/or distance closer. With the meta still being very shotgun heavy (because Shot Package shotguns were barely nerfed at all - kill distance is essentially the same) it's still incredibly easy to close the gap. The weapon-ready delay makes it easier to counter if you already have your own shotgun ready, but if you were using your primary (god forbid) or a sniper it doesn't help much.
PvE bladedancer still has it's advantage in plentiful, long lasting invisibility. You were never really using it to clear adds because it was so dangerous before, and you're not using it now because of the same fact.
PvP bladedancer remains tremendously powerful for a handful of reasons:
1) Instantly ready any weapon. One of the most underrated perks in the game.
2) Blink. Best PvP mobility tool there is. Combo with sword and shotgun. So good.
3) Fast Twitch. You almost always have your melee ready.
4) Hungering Blade. Health regen during your super is super effective!
That being said, I think that, because of Stormcaller and Sunbreaker, there's now more value to being a Golden Gunner in PvP as a hard counter to those two supers. Rather than finding Bladedancer to be insanely brokenly powerful, I now feel like it's been brought in line with the other specs.
I have not noticed any difference in with the instant ready perk. Likewise the faster run/slide in rift really doesn't seem to be a huge factor. I was outrun by a sunbreaker the other day, much to my confusion.
Compare to the Nightstalker tree: Courage of the Pack, Light of the Pack, Lockdown. All of those perks significantly change up the Nightstalker game play and give noticeable feedback on the performance.
Stormcaller's only dubious ability is Rain check, where upon res they can blind nearby enemies.
I admit, stealth is pretty useful in PVE, and I've used it to some success in PVP, but is that enough utility to make you chose it over the Nightstalker orb factories or the ranged damage from a gunslinger with a nighthawk helmet?
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Tried the insta ready perk
by Blackt1g3r , Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Friday, September 25, 2015, 14:29 (3443 days ago) @ Durandal
I have not noticed any difference in with the instant ready perk. Likewise the faster run/slide in rift really doesn't seem to be a huge factor. I was outrun by a sunbreaker the other day, much to my confusion.
Did they outrun you or did they Titan skate? Using the Titan's Catapult ability allows a Titan to outrun a bladedancer when their super is active.
I have not noticed any difference in with the instant ready perk. Likewise the faster run/slide in rift really doesn't seem to be a huge factor. I was outrun by a sunbreaker the other day, much to my confusion.
Compare to the Nightstalker tree: Courage of the Pack, Light of the Pack, Lockdown. All of those perks significantly change up the Nightstalker game play and give noticeable feedback on the performance.
Stormcaller's only dubious ability is Rain check, where upon res they can blind nearby enemies.
I admit, stealth is pretty useful in PVE, and I've used it to some success in PVP, but is that enough utility to make you chose it over the Nightstalker orb factories or the ranged damage from a gunslinger with a nighthawk helmet?
What guns were you using? Insta-ready is awesome for heavy machine guns, snipers, etc. If you have any "this weapon readies unbelievably quickly" perks turned on in your guns, you can (and should) turn those off if you're using bladedancer. If you're PvPing with something that already readies quickly, like MIDA, you probably won't notice the change. This perk also mitigates the delay for blink/shotgun.
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Bladedancers rock!
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, September 25, 2015, 13:57 (3443 days ago) @ Durandal
I'm a huge fan of the Bladedancer subclass. For me, super abilities are not the most important thing to consider when choosing a subclass. They absolutely matter, but it's the rest of the talent tree that dictates how you will be fighting between supers, which is the majority of combat.
Bladedancer's strengths lie in the little details. Their speed and maneuverability combined with blink strike make them ideal for hit-and-run ambushes. Come flying in, unleash a few quick shotgun blasts, melee + escape artist to cloak and retreat. The quick draw ability is one of my favorites in the game, and often overlooked. It's not a flashy ability, but being able to ready weapons instantly makes the Bladedancer the best class for transitioning between combat ranges. One of my favorite tactics in PvP is to engage enemies on the very edge of shotgun range and use my speed to pull back, push forward, pull back again, switching weapons as I move to keep them off balance. I'm often able to trick the enemy into trying to keep up with my weapon switching, which they simply can't do, meaning I can shoot them more than they can shoot me.
Before 2.0, I would have said that arc-bolt grenades were the best PvP grenade in the game. They're no longer as deadly as they used to be, but still very effective.
And when it comes to their Super ability, Bladedancers are still extremely effective, if perhaps a bit more situational than some other supers. With Showstopper and Encore, the Bladedancer can clear a room of low-level mobs like no other subclass. For example: in the first room of the Omnigal strike, I'll start my super just as all the Thrall begin to pour into the room, and my super won't end until the final thrall is dead. That's close to 30 kills with a single super. In PvP, the Stormcaller wins in terms of raw damage output, but the Bladedancer is far more agile during their super. A Bladedancer has a better chance of moving between enemies or escaping a crossfire, closing the distance, and scoring the kill.
I do agree that Bladedancers are at a disadvantage against major enemies. But even so, I feel they have a place within the sandbox thanks to their unique combination of stealth and agility.
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I just think StormCaller is a joke.
by BeardFade , Portland, OR, Friday, September 25, 2015, 14:10 (3443 days ago) @ Durandal
I got so tired of dying from it last night that I started sitting down when I heard one use their super and I was too close to run away; because running is all you can do and you need a pretty significant head start if they are chasing you.
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You can definitely kill them, though
by ZackDark , Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, September 25, 2015, 15:03 (3443 days ago) @ BeardFade
Throw a grenade before you see them and shotgun their faces off. You'll die, almost surely, but chances are you'll take them with you. Nothing like those Hammer-Times. I scramble the hell out of dodge when I hear the hammer chime.
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Also, 2 Chaperone headshots kills them.
by Xenos , Shores of Time, Friday, September 25, 2015, 15:07 (3443 days ago) @ ZackDark
As well as Bladedancers and revived Sunsingers, and Sunbreakers.
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Also, 2 Chaperone headshots kills them.
by Chewbaccawakka , The Great Green Pacific Northwest!, Friday, September 25, 2015, 18:31 (3443 days ago) @ Xenos
It's dangerous to go alone, here take a Chaperone.