Looks like Steel is out for tonight and we'll need a 6th, anybody up for it? We'll be starting around 6est or 3pst.

Aw, damn. ):

I'll join in if you still need someone. What time are you guys getting started?

-Disciple

6 was the plan, but I didn't get into the FTB until right now, so I had to make to make it 6:15.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?mode=fireteambuilder&test=1&event=1121

OK, cool. I'll make sure I'm online. Where are you guys at now?

-Disciple

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?mode=fireteambuilder&test=1&event=1121

Ogre.

We'd like to remain spoiler free, though.

Ogre.

We'd like to remain spoiler free, though.

Absolutely.

We have got to figure out what the deal with this guy is. I know we were having a rough time with the Warpriest the first night, but we had it figured out when we signed off, we just couldn't execute.

I feel like we're still a way from even figuring this Ogre out.

Ogre.

We'd like to remain spoiler free, though.

Absolutely.

We have got to figure out what the deal with this guy is. I know we were having a rough time with the Warpriest the first night, but we had it figured out when we signed off, we just couldn't execute.

I feel like we're still a way from even figuring this Ogre out.

Yeah, I think we've got the pieces of the puzzle but haven't figured out how to put it together.

Ogre.

We'd like to remain spoiler free, though.

Oh, yeah. Definitely! I would normally offer to throw up the same suggestions (good or bad) that I provided when I first ran it, but I don't think I contributed much to this one anyway. Well, aside from one bad idea right off the bat that you guys probably already tried anyway :p My lips are sealed.

-Disciple

- No text -

http://www.twitch.tv/cheapLEY

I gotta say, I'm impressed you are willing to go back to the Cellar for a blind run. I've certainly had enough of Uncle Disgusting's Basement of Torment.

I gotta say, I'm impressed you are willing to go back to the Cellar for a blind run. I've certainly had enough of Uncle Disgusting's Basement of Torment.

It was actually pretty fun! They tried a lot of things I haven't seen anyone try yet. I still think there's one piece of that puzzle missing that will either unlock some kind of secret, or just make the encounter doable with less than 5 people. I'm going to have to watch more blind runs to see if anyone stumbles across it before everyone just starts following the method that has already worked for everyone else.

-Disciple

I still think there's one piece of that puzzle missing that will either unlock some kind of secret, or just make the encounter doable with less than 5 people.

That would be really amazing.

Seriously, though, thanks for last night! You handled it incredibly well. As much as I love helping folks out to accomplish things, I'm not sure I could participate in that encounter and watch five others stumble around for hours like you did. You were great!

I still think there's one piece of that puzzle missing that will either unlock some kind of secret, or just make the encounter doable with less than 5 people.

That would be really amazing.

Seriously, though, thanks for last night! You handled it incredibly well. As much as I love helping folks out to accomplish things, I'm not sure I could participate in that encounter and watch five others stumble around for hours like you did. You were great!

I want to apologize to you, cheapLEY. I'm pretty sure you suggested we're missing something with the adds, and I started pontificating based on my narrow vision as the add guy (and even misremembered knights!).

Disciple deftly steered us in the direction of discovering the secret without giving away the secret.

It's easy to just start fighting and not be methodical. Ideally, we

• identify the elements--enemies, buffs, debuffs, etc.
  
• experiment to identify their characteristics--when do they start and stop. How do they affect each other.
  
• Formulate a strategy.
  
• Iterate and adjust

Disciple reminded all of us that it's worthwhile just to focus on a few of these at a time.

Another observation I got from watching streams of ourselves and others. Sometimes it's easy to jump in without really noticing or remembering what the stated objective is on the screen.

Thanks for playing with us, Disciple.

Kermit

It was actually pretty fun! They tried a lot of things I haven't seen anyone try yet.

Beorn's group did it slightly differently than we did as well, although with the same basic concept. There's actually a lot of slight modifications that seem possible. However, as Avateur pointed out last night, Black Spindle is a huge help and can loosen up some of the time constraints.

I also was watching this group's Warpriest strategy, and noticed they discovered something neither group I've been in figured out. It's not necessary to use to beat the encounter, but it removes one of the big hurdles that occurs during the fight.

In all honesty, I might have been a little extra motivated to make sure you guys got the true blind experience. After half of my original "no spoilers" crew flaked on me so that someone could hold their hands for the last half of the raid, I had to piece together another group who wanted to figure things out for themselves.

We had a group of five willing to give it a go and one who had done everything already, but was willing to let us figure things out ourselves. Unfortunately, this person's idea of letting us figure it out was going "Hey, look! I've been given the important role this time and am doing exactly what needs to be done. Did you see what I did there? Did you see what happened when I did this? What do you think will happen when you do this? No, that is incorrect. It's actually this," essentially doing everything short of giving us a handwritten guide.

Post-Ogre spoils:
And since the mechanics of the Deathsinger battle are a key part of the Oryx battle, that took away my chance to get to figure out most of the last half of the raid.

I might still be a little pissed.

-Disciple

Things didn't really work out for us all that well. I think a lot of the people who tried to go blind that first Friday ended up getting burned out when the raid was so difficult, especially since they had spent all week grinding to be ready. The groups that took their time seem to have faired much better. I'll be trying that approach next time.

Disciple deftly steered us in the direction of discovering the secret without giving away the secret.

Heh. To be honest, a part of that was genuine curiosity. Our group just went in, guns blazing, and murdered everything right off the bat. The upper adds were never a hazard, but did become one more chore that we had to knock out every round while the clock was ticking. I liked your idea of leaving one alive from the first round to try and prevent another group of adds spawning in during the next round!

-Disciple

Being on top duty with JediMattFoley when it "clicked" was one of the best experiences I've had with Destiny.

It was actually pretty fun! They tried a lot of things I haven't seen anyone try yet.

Beorn's group did it slightly differently than we did as well, although with the same basic concept. There's actually a lot of slight modifications that seem possible. However, as Avateur pointed out last night, Black Spindle is a huge help and can loosen up some of the time constraints.

I also was watching this group's Warpriest strategy, and noticed they discovered something neither group I've been in figured out. It's not necessary to use to beat the encounter, but it removes one of the big hurdles that occurs during the fight.

What was that? Use spoiler tags, of course.

- No text -

You guys figured out that:

You don't need to be at the top left to hide behind the left pillar. You can hide on a ledge at the bottom left of the middle. The three times I've done it we just made everyone jump up to the left, not a particular easy jump to make in a pressure situation.

You guys figured out that:

You don't need to be at the top left to hide behind the left pillar. You can hide on a ledge at the bottom left of the middle. The three times I've done it we just made everyone jump up to the left, not a particular easy jump to make in a pressure situation.

Heh - we figured that out, too - and it was critical on the last round of damage. (I was the only one left alive, and I was STARTING to try and make the jump when North reminded me that the ledge was safe. I would have missed the jump, we would have wiped. Instead, I stayed alive, revived the rest of the team, and we finished him before enrage.)

(Spoiler tag added just in case)

You guys figured out that:

You don't need to be at the top left to hide behind the left pillar. You can hide on a ledge at the bottom left of the middle. The three times I've done it we just made everyone jump up to the left, not a particular easy jump to make in a pressure situation.

Geez, you guys jumped up to hide! Don't think we would have pulled that off regardless. Necessity is the mother of invention.

You guys figured out that:

You don't need to be at the top left to hide behind the left pillar. You can hide on a ledge at the bottom left of the middle. The three times I've done it we just made everyone jump up to the left, not a particular easy jump to make in a pressure situation.

Geez, you guys jumped up to hide! Don't think we would have pulled that off regardless. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Oh, god. If that was necessary, we'd have been screwed. We had a hard enough time hiding as it was!

I still think there's one piece of that puzzle missing that will either unlock some kind of secret, or just make the encounter doable with less than 5 people.

That would be really amazing.

Seriously, though, thanks for last night! You handled it incredibly well. As much as I love helping folks out to accomplish things, I'm not sure I could participate in that encounter and watch five others stumble around for hours like you did. You were great!

...It was totally worth it to get to see someone else do this:

-Disciple

- No text -

I was rooting for you guys to beat Golgoroth just so I could witness that moment.

That's great!

I missed it. :(

I was too busy on the right side of the platform staring off into the abyss. Glad you recorded it! The wave is a nice touch.

I still think there's one piece of that puzzle missing that will either unlock some kind of secret, or just make the encounter doable with less than 5 people.

That would be really amazing.

Seriously, though, thanks for last night! You handled it incredibly well. As much as I love helping folks out to accomplish things, I'm not sure I could participate in that encounter and watch five others stumble around for hours like you did. You were great!

I want to apologize to you, cheapLEY. I'm pretty sure you suggested we're missing something with the adds, and I started pontificating based on my narrow vision as the add guy (and even misremembered knights!).

Hey, it's all good. I trusted you, and agreed with you from what my limited perspective offered as well. Whatever we were doing made the adds seem basically constant, so we missed it.

Disciple deftly steered us in the direction of discovering the secret without giving away the secret.

Again, Disciple was absolutely perfect. His experience with a fill-in sound absolutely awful. I probably wouldn't react well in that situation had I been put into it, to the point of probably just dropping out if he wouldn't stop after a few warnings about it.

It's easy to just start fighting and not be methodical. Ideally, we

• identify the elements--enemies, buffs, debuffs, etc.
  
• experiment to identify their characteristics--when do they start and stop. How do they affect each other.
  
• Formulate a strategy.
  
• Iterate and adjust

I think we were doing a good job of discovering mechanics, buffs, and stuff like that. We just missed that one. We had some good strategies going based on what we knew, but without that key piece of information, it would have been total brute force to get through, and I don't know about you guys, but I'm definitely not skilled enough to execute like that.

Disciple reminded all of us that it's worthwhile just to focus on a few of these at a time.

Another observation I got from watching streams of ourselves and others. Sometimes it's easy to jump in without really noticing or remembering what the stated objective is on the screen.

I still haven't really checked out much of my stream, other than just a few minutes scrolling through. I might watch some of that later tonight before bed if I have a chance. I'm bummed it doesn't have our chatter after the first night, just my dumb voice with no one else.

Thanks for playing with us, Disciple.

Yes, absolutely!