Raid impressions *spoilers*

After 10 hours, the brave Guardians of the Phantom Pikes finally reached Oryx in their blind run, and then promptly noped the duck out of the Dreadnought and returned to the Tower.

The Raid starts out well enough--up until Gorgoroth, I would say it is a good Raid and it is fun, I could see myself enjoying running it often. Gorgoroth and beyond? Yikes.

This Raid is very demanding on jumping ability, to the point where a single person missing a single jump can result in a wipe. Jeez.

Every encounter also has a lot of stuff to sort out, and going in blind means a LOT of trial and error. Going back, these encounters should take a fraction of the time they did, but I feel like that learning process is what this experience was about. Yeah, we could've made much faster time just reading how to do an encounter online, but that feels a little empty. I'm glad to have gone blind up to Oryx.

Finding the hidden chest in the maze was a nice change of pace. I really enjoyed how you could count on a breather in between bosses.

Loot seems sparse, but then again we haven't taken down the King. That will have to happen another time. In the mean time, I no longer have to hide from Raid spoilers, which is nice!

Glad to have done it with this group of players--we've done each Raid blind, and this one especially tested but also demonstrated our teamwork.

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So, the ps4 crew took something like 8 hours the first time through. Second time through was a little over 2 hours. I expect we'll get it closer to 90-105 minutes next time. That first time through blind was a beast. It gets easier.

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Kings Fall was the first time I've gone into a raid blind, with a fully blind group. It was an interesting experience. Definitely lead to a few standout moments (such as the collective "oooo"s and "aaaah"s as we entered the ship-jumping section, and a few hilarious surprises :)

It was also an exhausting experience. Our group starts late at night, so fatigue is an issue after about 90 minutes or so. I had a great time, but I will say I enjoyed our 2nd run a lot more. To me, the real thrill of the raids is in refining our group tactics more than figuring out the basics behind each encounter.

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I really enjoyed the experience overall. Love that video. I wish I would have recorded it from my perspective. I remember looking out at the platforms, then suddenly watching my body (very distantly) fall into the chasm and was like... "Wha...!!!"

I really liked figuring out the mechanics of each fight. That's a draw for me. Execution is fun too, but nothing like doing it because you understand it vs doing it because "you're supposed to".

I do wish that there were some shortcuts through some of the jumping puzzles, and maybe there still are. I wouldn't want to be without those sections, but after 5-10 times I think they'll get a bit stale.

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I took a 'shortcut' from the exotic chest across to the other side. I should have recorded it. I doubt a hunter could make it, it's questionable if a warlock could. I also put 'shortcut' in quotes because if you miss the jump more than once it'll take longer. ;)

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. . . I love it.

The folks here were amazing in guiding me through the Vault of Glass and Crota's End, and they were sure to let me encounter things on my own (jumping puzzle). However, being the only one in the dark so to say, I declined to really try to explore and figure things out on my own.

Even being led through, the Raids are still easily the best experiences in Destiny.

Going through King's Fall with a fully blind group has been a whole other level of amazing. Our group just finished for the evening at the Deathsinger encounter, which we didn't really explore much. It's been a long evening already.

King's Fall seems to hit all the right notes so far. Figuring out how to begin with the Relics is simple but fun. It's a great little warm up, as is the Tombship jumping puzzle. The first real test is the Warpriest, but looking back on it, it's a pretty straight forward encounter.

Golgoroth, however, is when I started to hate my life. We banged our heads against that ogre for hours last night. To the point that I was actually starting to ask myself why the hell I was putting myself through it. Today, we started with a few different ideas, and came up with a solid plan, and finally figured it out. Then we spent a few more attempts actually getting our roles down and hitting our marks. Again, looking back, it's not all that crazy. I was really frustrated at the beginning of the encounter, we thought we knew what we needed to do, but we were still missing key pieces of the puzzle! It's hard to know if you're even on the right track sometimes. But figuring it out is one of the most rewarding videogame experiences I've ever encountered. It's the perfect combination of figuring out the puzzle, then having the skill to execute on what you know.

I still really feel like I missed out by not being able to blind raid the VoG, but King's Fall seems to be at least its equal. I will say that so far I feel like VoG does have the better environment and atmosphere. I think the legend of Praedyth and Kabr add a lot to that raid, and King's Fall is missing a bit in that regard.

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Golgoroth, however, is when I started to hate my life. We banged our heads against that ogre for hours last night. To the point that I was actually starting to ask myself why the hell I was putting myself through it. Today, we started with a few different ideas, and came up with a solid plan, and finally figured it out. Then we spent a few more attempts actually getting our roles down and hitting our marks. Again, looking back, it's not all that crazy. I was really frustrated at the beginning of the encounter, we thought we knew what we needed to do, but we were still missing key pieces of the puzzle! It's hard to know if you're even on the right track sometimes. But figuring it out is one of the most rewarding videogame experiences I've ever encountered. It's the perfect combination of figuring out the puzzle, then having the skill to execute on what you know.

I still really feel like I missed out by not being able to blind raid the VoG, but King's Fall seems to be at least its equal. I will say that so far I feel like VoG does have the better environment and atmosphere. I think the legend of Praedyth and Kabr add a lot to that raid, and King's Fall is missing a bit in that regard.

Generally speaking, the encounters in Kings Fall are, IMHO, more complex and require more perfect execution by the fireteam as a whole than the encounters in the VoG.

I blind raided the VoG up to the Gorgons, at which point someone looked up how to get through the labyrinth, then we worked on Atheon with a little knowledge but not spoiled. VoG seemed harder in that it was easier to be overwhelmed by adds, KF was harder in that the mechanics of the encounters were more difficult and required more coordination.

Golgoroth was hard. Remembering to look at countdown timers was the harder (for me) ;).

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Generally speaking, the encounters in Kings Fall are, IMHO, more complex and require more perfect execution by the fireteam as a whole than the encounters in the VoG.

I blind raided the VoG up to the Gorgons, at which point someone looked up how to get through the labyrinth, then we worked on Atheon with a little knowledge but not spoiled. VoG seemed harder in that it was easier to be overwhelmed by adds, KF was harder in that the mechanics of the encounters were more difficult and required more coordination.

Golgoroth was hard. Remembering to look at countdown timers was the harder (for me) ;).

Crota's End is a brawl, Vault of Glass is a barn dance, King's End is like ballet. Your team's coordination needs to be totally spot-on if you want to have any hope of making it through.

I remember a moment during one of our last VoG runs before TTK launched; we were at the conflux section, a couple members of our fireteam died right near the beginning. A couple minutes later another 2 died, leaving just me and Thee Chaos standing as we went into the 3rd wave (defend all 3 confluxes). We went ahead and 2-manned it, no problem.

Those kinds of things really don't seem possible in King's End, not without major exploits of some kind.

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I remember a moment during one of our last VoG runs before TTK launched; we were at the conflux section, a couple members of our fireteam died right near the beginning. A couple minutes later another 2 died, leaving just me and Thee Chaos standing as we went into the 3rd wave (defend all 3 confluxes). We went ahead and 2-manned it, no problem.

Those kinds of things really don't seem possible in King's End, not without major exploits of some kind.

King's Fall had the light and heavy elements down, but lacked something in the middle. I think the ultimate raid will combine both sections that are mechanically complex and unforgiving like King's fall, and those that are more open ended like the Gatekeeper section of VoG.

There is something to be said for elements that require teamwork, but are open and improvisational.

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I remember a moment during one of our last VoG runs before TTK launched; we were at the conflux section, a couple members of our fireteam died right near the beginning. A couple minutes later another 2 died, leaving just me and Thee Chaos standing as we went into the 3rd wave (defend all 3 confluxes). We went ahead and 2-manned it, no problem.

I remember doing something similar with Cody(?). Ruin Wings, when they work, are a life saver.

Those kinds of things really don't seem possible in King's End, not without major exploits of some kind.

I think you could probably do most of the raid with 5, but 4 could get real interesting, and 3 would be impossible.

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I think you could probably do most of the raid with 5, but 4 could get real interesting, and 3 would be impossible.

Right now, the big hurdle that I don't see a smaller group getting past is the sheer DPS requirements during some of the encounters. During the final battle, we would fail to stagger Oryx if even 1 of us out of sniper ammo or missed a few shots. Of course, this will get easier over time as we all continue to level up and find better gear, but our group was all close to 300 using decent sniper rifles. I can't imagine a group of 4 could pull that battle off without some majorly powerful weaponry.

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Opening the door to the Warpriest is guaranteed to need at least 5 people. A friend of mine even said you absolutely need two people at a time to open the door itself.

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I think it could be done, if you didn't stand on the plate for the full period. I don't know if you can even get the Brand if you still have Deathsinger Power though.

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I think it could be done, if you didn't stand on the plate for the full period. I don't know if you can even get the Brand if you still have Deathsinger Power though.

You can't. If you have the deathsinger power, you cannot get the buff to stay alive in the totem rooms.

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Celestial Nighthawk. 'nuff said.

But for the most part, I think the DpS issue will disappear as we all get access to better weapons. With the Spindle our team took down both the Warpriest and Golgoroth in just two phases each. Along the same lines, we killed the sisters in just two phases (one each).

I think the hardest part of having less players would be reduced add control (and not having enough players to stand on plates)

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Throughout our run, we kept saying things like "boy, would a Hunter be useful right now..."

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We didn't even have enough DpS with Weapons of Light to stagger him consistently on our first run. Turned our Titans into Orb Machines just to keep our Nightjawk fed. It was... Interesting.

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Celestial Nighthawk. 'nuff said.

Gunslinger with the Nighthawk is definitely the way to go for the Oryx fight. The ads are very light and ineffective, while the ogres need to be killed quickly. A single golden gun shot that takes away 2/3 of your ogre's health is more useful than a snare on the ads in my opinion. Add in a tripmine, and the ogre is at maybe 5% health. You can also use it to stagger Oryx if you get in a bind.

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A Weapons of Light bubble will deal with Ogres in no time. 4 rounds from a decent sniper (plus support fire from the appropriate plate) and they're gone. Save the Nighthawk for the Vessel, Echo or Oryx.

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A Weapons of Light bubble will deal with Ogres in no time. 4 rounds from a decent sniper (plus support fire from the appropriate plate) and they're gone. Save the Nighthawk for the Vessel, Echo or Oryx.

Now why didn't I think of dropping a WoL bubble for our floaters? I found that Cyber or TalkingOrange (almost) always had their bubble up and I bet if I dropped some extra orbs they'd have theirs charged for when we dps Oryx.

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The ads are very light and ineffective

Only because I was tethering the shit out of them ;)

Jokes aside, I'm gonna go nighthawk/gunslinger next time around, too. At least for Oryx.

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The ads are very light and ineffective

Only because I was tethering the shit out of them ;)

Jokes aside, I'm gonna go nighthawk/gunslinger next time around, too. At least for Oryx.

I would say night stalker everywhere in the raid except for Oryx, and for when you prove your worth to fight the Warpriest. That encounter has light enemies, but a few high value targets like the Knights up top and the Wizards in the middle.

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I think that Nightstalker would be a better option, assuming you have some gunslingers. The amount of orbs they create is insane, ability to tether the knight/orgres is great too. Sometimes that Knight just doesnt want to go down.

I guess I would say at least 1 nightstalker, then the rest celestial nighthawkin slingers. yeehaw

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. . . I love it.

The folks here were amazing in guiding me through the Vault of Glass and Crota's End, and they were sure to let me encounter things on my own (jumping puzzle). However, being the only one in the dark so to say, I declined to really try to explore and figure things out on my own.

Even being led through, the Raids are still easily the best experiences in Destiny.

Going through King's Fall with a fully blind group has been a whole other level of amazing. Our group just finished for the evening at the Deathsinger encounter, which we didn't really explore much. It's been a long evening already.

King's Fall seems to hit all the right notes so far. Figuring out how to begin with the Relics is simple but fun. It's a great little warm up, as is the Tombship jumping puzzle. The first real test is the Warpriest, but looking back on it, it's a pretty straight forward encounter.

Golgoroth, however, is when I started to hate my life. We banged our heads against that ogre for hours last night. To the point that I was actually starting to ask myself why the hell I was putting myself through it. Today, we started with a few different ideas, and came up with a solid plan, and finally figured it out. Then we spent a few more attempts actually getting our roles down and hitting our marks. Again, looking back, it's not all that crazy. I was really frustrated at the beginning of the encounter, we thought we knew what we needed to do, but we were still missing key pieces of the puzzle! It's hard to know if you're even on the right track sometimes. But figuring it out is one of the most rewarding videogame experiences I've ever encountered. It's the perfect combination of figuring out the puzzle, then having the skill to execute on what you know.

I still really feel like I missed out by not being able to blind raid the VoG, but King's Fall seems to be at least its equal. I will say that so far I feel like VoG does have the better environment and atmosphere. I think the legend of Praedyth and Kabr add a lot to that raid, and King's Fall is missing a bit in that regard.

Yep. Agree on most counts. I thought VoG was epic. King's Fall redefines that word for me. I'm just stunned by the environments and the mechanics are great. I've got a friend who hated VoG because of the jumping puzzle. Can't imagine him liking King's Fall.

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Is it Blackstar? He reeeeaally hated those jumping puzzles. His streak of being the relic grabber during the Deathsingers was amusing.

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Not a DBOer.

What relic? Shut your mouth!

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Oh yeah. I'm awful on my best day with jumping puzzles; but with an "A" button sticking on me too... just makes me want to chew glass.

One trick I did find that helps is using the sword to give me a third person camera. Helps out a lot in some circumstances.

Bungie's random number generator really had it in for me that night.

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is the best part of the raid. I *love* the downtime areas between bosses.

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