No matter how you say it exploting this bug is unsportsmanlike. Personally, I think intentional unsportsmanlike actions should result in punishments after a fair warning.

No. The rules for Supers are obviously that you activate and use your Super and then have to wait until it recharges.

Clearly that is not true, otherwise this exploit wouldn't be possible. That's the way it's supposed to work, but that's not the way it's coded to work in this case.

So you're saying when your game crashes, that's the intended behavior because it's in the code? This is a silly argument. Actual code and design intentions are two very different things.

Personally, I see a big difference between pressing buttons on the controller and yanking a cable out of your wall :)

And I understand there is a big difference between them. But ultimately I see it as an intent to cheat.

I don't consider this "cheating". A glitch, a bug, sure. But it is not the players who are "breaking the game". This isn't like yanking your ethernet cable out of the wall or lag-switching. This is players using a button combination to achieve results that Bungie didn't intend. It should absolutely be fixed, but I don't blame players for using it.

Technically, yanking your Ethernet cable or lag-switching isn't "breaking the game" either. all three cases are players giving Destiny and its servers input that Destiny tries to interpret and fails to do so. These are just cases where Destiny failing to correctly handle it results in the player getting an advantage.

You are manipulating your network stream. That's cheating. If you need something more than just a controller, it's cheating.

They're both cheating. If you do something the software doesn't expect which results in you gaining an advantage, that's cheating. Pulling the network cable and accessing your menu mid-super with a specific perk active both result in situations the code wasn't designed to handle. Bungie should fix them both, but in the mean time, they are both still cheating.

I don't consider this "cheating". A glitch, a bug, sure. But it is not the players who are "breaking the game". This isn't like yanking your ethernet cable out of the wall or lag-switching. This is players using a button combination to achieve results that Bungie didn't intend. It should absolutely be fixed, but I don't blame players for using it.

Putting all the blame on the game developer is just silly. Who exactly, but the player, pressed the buttons? I think players absolutely should be held accountable for intentional unsportsmanlike actions. Don't want a ban? Don't do the thing you know is wrong.

The developers allowed this glitch through. The onus is on them to ensure that everything functions as intended. By your logic, Quake players should have been banned for rocket jumping (a developer-confirmed "bug" that players stumbled on to). I'm not saying "it's ok" for players to do it. I'm just saying Bungie let this slip through the cracks and they should fix it ASAP (as I'm sure they will). I don't think players need to be banned over it.

I do think players need to be banned over it.

The quake example is a terrible one because rocket jumping was a thing every player could do and it didn't provide a clear advantage to anyone when it was used (didn't make you invulnerable or do more damage, just let you jump somewhere a little higher). Plus I'm a little sketchy on rocket jumping even being a bug, because rocket jumping was a thing in Marathon which you needed to use to reach certain secret areas, and that came out 2 years before quake.

But I still think it's clearly cheating.

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Hitting the baseball and dunking the basketball are well within the spirit of the game and even your examples don't require the player to act in an unsportsmanlike manner. The shadowshot glitch DOES require the players to act in an unsportsmanlike way, over and over, many times a match. That's the difference. And that, like backing out of Trials matches or not participating in a Strike you are part of, neither of which exploit game bugs, is why gross repeat offenders should face the possibility of punishment.

It is actually exactly like doing anything that causes the game to behave in a way other than intended in order to give you an advantage. That's called cheating. It doesn't matter if the game is a buggy mess, if you exploit that bug, that's cheating. Getting outside the map to snipe people through walls where they can't see you? Cheating. Untethering your damage dealing avatar from your damage receiving avatar? Cheating. Infinite Hammers? Cheating. Infinite Shadow Shots? Cheating. Lag-switching? Cheating. It's all cheating.

You appear to be drawing a distinction from a guy who actually got a piece of hardware installed in order to cheat vs. a guy who is able to cheat without needing hardware. That's a false distinction. The lag switch is a hardware device which takes advantage of a lapse in code fidelity by allowing you to disable upstream packets while still registering kills and receiving downstream packets. A truly robust PvP code that wasn't exploitable would prevent this behavior. But because it's not prevented in Destiny, it's technically a bug that's being exploited, just like the refilling of the super bar for Quiver Shadow Shot by going to the inventory menu - that, too, is a bug that's being exploited.

Using exploits of any kind for personal gain is... wait for it... cheating.

If I'm a baseball player, and I notice the outfield wall has a whole in it, am I cheating if I manage to hit a ball straight through the hole for an automatic ground-rule double? No. I'm exploiting a flaw, but that is not actually the same as cheating. Modifying my bat with illegal materials? THAT is cheating.

Unless it was in the rules, I would call it cheating yeah. Why? Because baseball stadiums are built a certain way to play baseball in a fair way for both teams. Now, both teams use the field and thus have the same chance to "exploit" the weakness in the baseball stadium, which would be fine until it was fixed. And you might say the same thing could be true of Destiny, however exploiting the weakness in Destiny isn't based on Skill, it's based on whether you have a Hunter with shadow shot. Again, I bring up my point, cheating in my mind is exploiting the game to the disadvantage of those you play against. If everyone had Hunters and were using this, I wouldn't call it cheating, because everyone would be on the same playing field. Which would just be Mayhem with hunters.

If I'm a basketball player and I notice the rim of the net is slanted to one side, making it easier to dunk from the left, am I "cheating" for dunking from the left? No.

Like I brought up above. It's cheating if only one of the rims is slanted, thus making it easier to dunk. If both rims, and thus both team's rims were bent, it wouldn't be cheating.

If I'm a baseball player, and I notice the outfield wall has a whole in it, am I cheating if I manage to hit a ball straight through the hole for an automatic ground-rule double? No. I'm exploiting a flaw, but that is not actually the same as cheating. Modifying my bat with illegal materials? THAT is cheating.

If I'm a basketball player and I notice the rim of the net is slanted to one side, making it easier to dunk from the left, am I "cheating" for dunking from the left? No.

If bungie ships a subclass that has infinite super abilities simply by hitting the menu button, then the player is not "cheating" for exploiting that. Not playing the game "as intended" does not automatically mean cheating. That's where my rocket-jump example came in. Rocket jumps were not originally designed in to Quake. It lead to players reaching ledges in ways the designers didn't expect. But those players weren't "cheating". They were working with the tools that the game presented them.

There is a distinct difference between using outside hardware (or other methods) to screw with the game, vs exploiting a design flaw. Should the flaw be fixed? Absolutely. Should the players be punished? Absolutely not.

Your examples are bad because the playspace geometry is an equal "cheat" for all players and does not actually present an unfair advantage to anyone involved. Take the basketball "cheat" for example. To make that relate to this shadow shot cheat, it would be to figure out that, after slam dunking, you could just pick up the ball and slam dunk it again, over and over and over, forever, as long as you waved to the bench after every two slams. It would also be only asian players who could do this, for some reason. Then it's similar to the shadow shot cheat. They're taking a game mechanic with very clear intended rules and doing something, on purpose, to play outside of those rules. That's cheating.

Read the earlier post that contains the definition of cheating again. The intention to circumvent the rules in order to gain an advantage is very clear with infinite shadow shot. To be clear: I do not think being a sunbreaker is cheating even though I do think being a sunbreaker is a distinct advantage, because the sunbreaker was designed to be game breakingly overpowered. I DO think - nay, I know - that infinite shadow shot is cheating, for the many reasons I have enumerated. You're supposed to only get 3 shots, you trick the game into giving you more, that's cheating.

But imagine this. We are in trials (tomorrow FINALLY). We are 8-0. Our mercy is gone. We are having a completely fair game. Then a nightstalker starts spamming arrows Legolas style. We lose, no lighthouse. You cannot tell me that the person doing that doesn't deserve some sort of punishment. I think you would probably be pretty upset. (I will probably already be upset from hammerbros, but thats a different story)

Imagine if you will, I am Bill Belichick, the New England Patriots coach. All of a sudden I can hear the opposing teams chatter through my headset because of an audio problem. Then I win a game, because I knew every play that the team was going to do. SHOULD I do it, absolutely not. CAN I do it, obviously. Obviously people are split on this decision, and I can certainly see both sides of the story. Personally I think there should be penalties. Nothing too crazy. A week ban from crucible would be OK by me.

Another way to put it, I could go around yelling vulgar language at kids. Can I do it? most definitely. Is it Legal? i suppose it is. Do I deserve to have my ass beat? Undoubtedly

I am not really upset by anyones views on this. I see what you are saying, and you are entitled to your opinion as everyone else is. These are just my thoughts.

Nevertheless, I am ready to play some trials with you and Cody tomorrow.

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