Halo 5 is growing on me (Destiny)
by petetheduck, Saturday, October 31, 2015, 15:06 (3406 days ago)
edited by petetheduck, Saturday, October 31, 2015, 15:15
The opening moments of Halo 5 are bad and I feel like they are the weakest of any Halo game so far. The game does NOT look like a AAA title when you first pick up the controller. It is a disservice, because the game actually begins to improve. I'm about half way through the campaign, and when you have a moment like arriving at Genesis, you wish that level of environmental quality was present when you first picked up the controller.
This is literally the first time I have played Halo 5 -- I skipped the beta and basically the entire marketing campaign, so this is all new to me. The new moment abilities -- climb, thrust, and even the ground pound -- all feel good. I was extremely skeptical of ground pound from the media, but having hands on with it, I'm good. Yes, I miss my Warlock jump, but Halo 5 has a much greater sense of gravity being a thing while still allowing you to defy it.
You can make a high jump in Destiny easily, but in Halo 5 you actually have to put some effort and thought into when to trigger your abilities, and it feels more rewarding to just reach that far ledge.
Vehicular combat is something Destiny just hasn't bothered with, and Halo has always excelled at. No comparison.
I'm still working through the campaign and I haven't touched multiplayer, but I think when Forge releases in December, Halo 5 custom games on Forge maps may triumph over Destiny, or at least deserve equal time.
Halo 5, I'm playing and I'm thinking about using this new vehicle in Forge, or maybe a Flaming Ninja Challenge map that uses thruster to make nearly impossible platforming challenges, and how cool it would be to play on the end result. Destiny, I'm thinking I played 11 games of Trials last night but never got the scout rifle because Bungie didn't make it clear you still got a weapon at 7 wins and I was just playing for bounties, and now I have to grind that out again just to get a freaking gun.
In other words, Halo 5 might just be the reminder to some of us that games can be played for fun.
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Halo 5 is growing on me
by cheapLEY , Saturday, October 31, 2015, 16:30 (3406 days ago) @ petetheduck
The opening moments of Halo 5 are bad and I feel like they are the weakest of any Halo game so far. The game does NOT look like a AAA title when you first pick up the controller. It is a disservice, because the game actually begins to improve. I'm about half way through the campaign, and when you have a moment like arriving at Genesis, you wish that level of environmental quality was present when you first picked up the controller.
I didn't really have that feeling, I guess. I do agree that Halo 5 isn't as immediately impressive as some games (even Destiny), but Halo never has been except for maybe the first one. It's never been top of the line as far as being amazed by the sheer detail. It's always been much more about being aesthetically beautiful and running smoothing with tons of things going on. Halo 5 excels at this more than any game I've ever played. It runs at a buttery smooth 60fps, and I didn't notice a single dropped frame throughout the entire game. Not one stutter, and there are absurd amounts of enemies on screen at once in Halo 5.
Vehicular combat is something Destiny just hasn't bothered with, and Halo has always excelled at. No comparison.
Yeah, obviously no comparison to Destiny. The vehicle segments of Halo 5 are fun, but probably the biggest disappointment of Halo 5 for me. They still just don't live up to all the great segments in Halo 3, or the level Halo.
In other words, Halo 5 might just be the reminder to some of us that games can be played for fun.
It's definitely a breath of fresh air for me, and I'm loving it.
I didn't really have that feeling, I guess. I do agree that Halo 5 isn't as immediately impressive as some games (even Destiny), but Halo never has been except for maybe the first one.
Did we play the same games?
Halo didn't get cool until the second level, likely by design. Until then, it was a standard space shooter. You are a cyborg on a ship full of bobs...er, marines that got boarded by aliens, being guided by an AI. You go through corridors and small rooms, and there's nothing special.
Then the Flawless Cowboy section happens.
Halo 2 also starts in a ship that's boring. Halo 3 puts you in a beautiful jungle, so that's nice. Halo 4 was back to the boring beginning. Reach and ODST had decent starts as well. I mean, I agree with you in principle, but not in the particulars there.
Sorry, I don't think I was clear about exactly what I was talking about.
By immediately impressive, I wasn't talking about gameplay or anything like that. I meant graphically. Halo games have always looked good, great even, but they accomplish that through great designs and a visual cohesiveness, rather than most games trying to just jam as much high-res detail as possible on screen. With Halo, the impressiveness of the graphics aren't necessarily immediately apparent. The first Halo is the only exception to that I think, as it had the best graphics on the Xbox when it was released, and that was immediately apparent.
All of the other Halo games had more competition; you could always point to another game and say it had better graphics, but it was something like Gears which only had to render gray corridors rather than the huge battles of Halo. So they weren't as immediately impressive graphically; you had to play them and encounter those big battles and overall design language before you could really appreciate how good they looked.
Halo 5 is the biggest example of this with its large enemy count and constant 60fps. Sure, you can point to other games that have technically better graphics, but not many are running at 60fps with zero stuttering with so much going on.
I hope that makes sense; I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts right now.
Nah. Makes sense. Halo 5 even seems to run out shit to render since they decided to put so much detail into the floor. Every yard there's a fucking protrusion or an open sewer in the pathway. I'd twist my ankle if I was a forerunner.
Halo 5 is growing on me
by Avateur , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 01:21 (3406 days ago) @ petetheduck
Just wait until you finish the story! It gets so much worse than the intro. Also, that thing where you see hope for the future with Forge even though they couldn't even include it at launch? Along with BTB? Along with whatever else? MCC sells completely broken, H5 sells unfinished. I guess that's a step up. Good for you being optimistic. :P
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Why do you think it's worse at the end?
by Funkmon , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 01:37 (3406 days ago) @ Avateur
- No text -
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haven't played it yet but...
by Durandal, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 12:05 (3405 days ago) @ Funkmon
I've been down on 343's story arc since halo 4, which seemed to discard all of the tone and intelligent military SF vibe for the usual hollywood stupid commanders and a villain who's motives are moronic at best. The lackluster guns in 4 didn't help, even though I felt the basic mechanics were good. So rather then preordering or anything, I figured I would check out the game after launch. I won't spoil the wikipedia synopsis of the plot, but the face heel turn in halo 5 is just mind bogglingly dumb and out of character. I may still pick it up for the larger battles with my friends, but it no longer holds the special place in my heart that Halo 1- Reach and Marathon did.
Under Bungie's care, the Halo universe had highly competent commanders and human forces that lost due to the technological and numerical superiority of the Covenant. Every success was hard fought and stolen from the jaws of defeat via cunning and heroism. The undercurrent of guilt that humanity had spent years focusing this same cunning against themselves served to highlight how in humanity's darkest hour they could pull together and show greatness.
Halo 4 drops in with grotesquely incompetent commanders, betrayal, and rank unprofessional behavior from the Spartan 4s. Top it off with the Didact who's actions are barely comprehensible, even with the big rewrite of the Halo backstory to make the Forruner jealous of humanity's magical birthright. Now Halo 5 takes one of the series best characters the villain for no reason but shock value. Halo 4's paltry plot couldn't really give the series a new galactic level threat to face, so it feels like the authors have just gone for some cheesy pro wrestling plot in Halo 5.
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+7
by Korny , Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 13:14 (3405 days ago) @ Durandal
I've been down on 343's story arc since halo 4, which seemed to discard all of the tone and intelligent military SF vibe for the usual hollywood stupid commanders and a villain who's motives are moronic at best. The lackluster guns in 4 didn't help, even though I felt the basic mechanics were good. So rather then preordering or anything, I figured I would check out the game after launch. I won't spoil the wikipedia synopsis of the plot, but the face heel turn in halo 5 is just mind bogglingly dumb and out of character. I may still pick it up for the larger battles with my friends, but it no longer holds the special place in my heart that Halo 1- Reach and Marathon did.
Under Bungie's care, the Halo universe had highly competent commanders and human forces that lost due to the technological and numerical superiority of the Covenant. Every success was hard fought and stolen from the jaws of defeat via cunning and heroism. The undercurrent of guilt that humanity had spent years focusing this same cunning against themselves served to highlight how in humanity's darkest hour they could pull together and show greatness.
Halo 4 drops in with grotesquely incompetent commanders, betrayal, and rank unprofessional behavior from the Spartan 4s. Top it off with the Didact who's actions are barely comprehensible, even with the big rewrite of the Halo backstory to make the Forruner jealous of humanity's magical birthright. Now Halo 5 takes one of the series best characters the villain for no reason but shock value. Halo 4's paltry plot couldn't really give the series a new galactic level threat to face, so it feels like the authors have just gone for some cheesy pro wrestling plot in Halo 5.
Every word.
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This is what happens when you don't have a Keyes in charge..
by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 16:24 (3405 days ago) @ Durandal
But yes, totally agree. Having the captain of the Infinity and Palmer be morons in Halo 4 was bad enough. Having the Didact, the tragic hero of the Forerunner's final age, basically say...
"I believe in the strong protecting the weak, thus since you haven't conquered these seven creatures in front of me I am going to go to your homeworld and kill all of your civilians in order to make mindless robot warriors to fight the Flood threat that you yourself already defeated."
...is why I this is the first Halo I've waited to purchase.
This is a ridiculous comment.
by yakaman, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 12:13 (3405 days ago) @ Avateur
MCC sells completely broken, H5 sells unfinished. I guess that's a step up. Good for you being optimistic. :P
Unfinished?
Also, nice back-handed way of calling someone a dumbass in the most condescending way possible.
This is a ridiculous comment.
by TheGhostBrigade, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 12:49 (3405 days ago) @ yakaman
Not that I don't have problems with Halo 5, but this is the best the series has ever been. This is what Halo 4 wanted to be. This is what Bungie was too afraid to be. Best, most fluid game mechanics I've ever played with, one of the most investing stories I've ever experienced in the Halo Universe (though I will complain that they made Locke the main character). I'm having the most fun with this game then I've had in a long time. Since Halo 3, actually.
You might think "You're not a real Halo fan." I've been a member of HBO since 2006 or 2007, my first Halo game was Halo 2, and I immediately delved into the expanded universe. And have been absorbed ever since.
I've always maintained that you should just enjoy what you love, and for people who enjoy things that you don't, just leave them alone. But of course, that's not how the internet works.
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This is a ridiculous comment.
by Funkmon , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 13:08 (3405 days ago) @ TheGhostBrigade
edited by Funkmon, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 13:13
You might think "You're not a real Halo fan."
Didn't think that.
I've been a member of HBO since 2006 or 2007, my first Halo game was Halo 2.
Now I do. Noob.
But for srs, I agree with you in some ways. The story in itself is very cool. Not unique, but classic Bungie. If Marathon 4 came out and Halo 5's major plot strokes were the story there, we'd be praising Bingle at a return to storytelling greatness.
That said, Halo seems like a young adult universe now. Everyone is on a first name basis and everyone does everything. There appears to be no discernible ranks in the 343 Halo universe. The forerunners are dumb. The didact is dumb. The current universe is dumb...but the story they told in Halo 5 is great within the framework, and the game is a fantastic one. Really good. Best Halo game since Halo to me. ODST and Halo 2 are comparable.
I'm not invested in the characters, though. These are not MY characters. That is not Cortana. That isn't Halsey. In my head, they're crappy fan fiction of the characters I know. I do feel attached to the Chief. I think his complete lack of discernible personality has kept him safe from 343's sweeping universe changes.
But, again, as itself, on its own, this game is easily one of my favourites ever.
This is a ridiculous comment.
by TheGhostBrigade, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 16:32 (3405 days ago) @ Funkmon
That said, Halo seems like a young adult universe now. Everyone is on a first name basis and everyone does everything. There appears to be no discernible ranks in the 343 Halo universe. The forerunners are dumb. The didact is dumb. The current universe is dumb...
Yeah, don't get me wrong I have a ton of issues with the direction they've taken the story. In retrospect I think the "humans are forerunners" aspect of the Bungie era was a better plan, but the Forerunner trilogy (well, besides maybe Primordium..) are extremely interesting to me.
343 seems like they want to put out more EU content then ever before, which I love, but it also increases the amount of filler content. You get more good (Last Light) and more bad (Hunters in the Dark), whereas it used to be one turkey came out (The Cole Protocol) and that was it for a year or so.
I'm not invested in the characters, though. These are not MY characters. That is not Cortana. That isn't Halsey. In my head, they're crappy fan fiction of the characters I know. I do feel attached to the Chief. I think his complete lack of discernible personality has kept him safe from 343's sweeping universe changes.
But, again, as itself, on its own, this game is easily one of my favourites ever.
Heh, I don't necessarily feel that way. I think they nailed Halsey in this game more than in any fiction since Ghosts of Onyx, but then again such is the subjectivity of things. In a very real sense, I think that Cortana is literally not the one we know and love, not the one that sacrificed herself to save us, but intentionally (from a storytelling standpoint) a twisted version of herself being manipulated by forces she may not even understand. So Halo 6 will be The Winter Soldier, basically.
But again, I was disappointed they brought her back, and that Arbiter didn't get much screen time, so yeah, their character development still needs work.
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This is a ridiculous comment.
by Leviathan , Hotel Zanzibar, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 13:31 (3405 days ago) @ yakaman
MCC sells completely broken, H5 sells unfinished. I guess that's a step up. Good for you being optimistic. :P
Unfinished?Also, nice back-handed way of calling someone a dumbass in the most condescending way possible.
I may be way off but I thought he was referring to the game being released with some features missing-but-on-the-way, like Forge, not that what IS there feels unfinished. It sounds like Halo 5 is intentionally 'incomplete' in its full offerings at the moment - that might make some people frustrated, while others may not mind at all waiting for the additional features. :)
This is a ridiculous comment.
by Avateur , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 20:56 (3405 days ago) @ Leviathan
This. Good call Levi.
This is a ridiculous comment.
by petetheduck, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 13:33 (3405 days ago) @ yakaman
MCC sells completely broken, H5 sells unfinished. I guess that's a step up. Good for you being optimistic. :P
Unfinished?Also, nice back-handed way of calling someone a dumbass in the most condescending way possible.
I think Avateur would say that outright to me if that was what he meant. If not here, then in party chat. I play Trials with the guy, there's no filter :D
This is a ridiculous comment.
by Avateur , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 20:56 (3405 days ago) @ petetheduck
Yep. I was genuinely saying way to be optimistic while also being super sarcastic about the concept of optimism with 343 after the H4 and MCC situation.
Speaking of Trials, I scrapped the card at 5 wins when you guys did. Who knew 7 would pay out? I wish you told me beforehand! I got a good laugh when I saw what you said. Oh well, we dominated some really good people pretty well!
Just finished the campaign
by petetheduck, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 15:20 (3405 days ago) @ Avateur
Just wait until you finish the story! It gets so much worse than the intro. Also, that thing where you see hope for the future with Forge even though they couldn't even include it at launch? Along with BTB? Along with whatever else? MCC sells completely broken, H5 sells unfinished. I guess that's a step up. Good for you being optimistic. :P
Ending is better than the intro.
I don't mind what they're using Cortana for, but I think her conversation with the Chief should have done a much better job of delivering a strong, clear motivation. I mean, it's freaking Cortana -- she could use Master Chief as the sole excuse for taking the Mantle.
Also not sure why the Infinity AI specifically stayed loyal.
There is so much Forerunner, I'm hoping they use Cortana to introduce some new tech and not just more borrowed Forerunner tech. Forerunner stuff used to be special, now it is eeevvveeeryyywhheerreee. Let's see the AI collective create some new enemies and ships, like a technology-based version of the Flood.
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Just finished the campaign
by cheapLEY , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 15:33 (3405 days ago) @ petetheduck
Ending is better than the intro.
Totally agreed.
I don't mind what they're using Cortana for, but I think her conversation with the Chief should have done a much better job of delivering a strong, clear motivation. I mean, it's freaking Cortana -- she could use Master Chief as the sole excuse for taking the Mantle.
I wish there was more explanation; the fact that there isn't seems very intentional. They're leaving it open as another reveal in Halo 6 probably. I'm hoping it doesn't happen, but I'm predicting there will be some sort of redemption for Cortana, rather than having to outright kill her.
I like the conversation with Cortana at the end, though, but because of the Chief. His, "It's not too late. Come home with me," (don't remember the exact quote) was absolutely spot on perfect. The delivery was so, so great. There was just enough of a waiver that, coming from the Chief, was super powerful, almost like he was begging, and at the same time, there's just enough of a threat there to know that he was basically giving her an ultimatum of "Come home or I'm going to have to destroy you."
Also not sure why the Infinity AI specifically stayed loyal.
I don't know exactly why, either, but I've always gotten then impression (maybe just an assumption), that of any other AI, Roland is the one that could be Cortana's equal. He is the AI on the Infinity, so he'd have to be the best AI ever, pretty much.
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Just finished the campaign
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 16:34 (3405 days ago) @ cheapLEY
So I read this yesterday:
http://www.gamesradar.com/why-halo-5s-story-fails-completely/
Much as I love the campaign, it's tough to argue with the points brought up here.
The big one for me is that you could remove both main protagonists from the game, and the overall story would turn out exactly the same. Nobody achieves, changes, or accomplishes anything at all. The only time the main characters appear to have any impact is when Locke helps the Arbiter, but that entire plot line is a bit of a side story, with no real relation to Chief/Cortana/Forerunner narrative.
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Just finished the campaign
by cheapLEY , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 16:56 (3405 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
So I read this yesterday:
http://www.gamesradar.com/why-halo-5s-story-fails-completely/
Much as I love the campaign, it's tough to argue with the points brought up here.
The big one for me is that you could remove both main protagonists from the game, and the overall story would turn out exactly the same. Nobody achieves, changes, or accomplishes anything at all. The only time the main characters appear to have any impact is when Locke helps the Arbiter, but that entire plot line is a bit of a side story, with no real relation to Chief/Cortana/Forerunner narrative.
I can't argue with that at all.
I also don't really mind. We got to see a lot of interesting things and places, and that's good enough for me.
I think I'm pretty lax compared to a lot of folks in that regard, though. I don't really need my Halo to tell an intricate, tight story. I just need to go to cool locations and do cool things, and have it make some sort of sense within the universe. Halo 5 has that in spades.
When it comes right down to it, yes, the player (as Locke or Chief) doesn't really do anything other than react to the situation (a criticism that has been leveled against almost every Halo game), and that is unfortunate. It's definitely something 343i should work on.
I have a bigger issue with the character of Locke in general. He's boring. He has no personality. While the same could definitely be said about the Master Chief, that's his character. And, in all actuality, the Master Chief showed more character and emotion in that one scene with Cortana than Locke showed in the whole game.
I can't remember if it was an article I read, or something you guys talked about in the RUL podcast, be there was so much potential with Locke. Buck set up some good conversations ("Everyone is going to hate us for this") that could have shed some light on Locke's character, but they get brought up and then dropped immediately after. We never see any tension for Locke in trying to bring in Blue Team. Maybe that is his character, the way he is, but if so, that's extremely disappointing, as we already had that for fifteen years with the Master Chief.
It seems pretty likely to me that Locke is being put forward as a new hero to possibly replace the Master Chief as the main protagonists. If that's the case, I though maybe they would bring in someone with more personality. As it stands, we've just gotten a black slate like the Chief, but one that no one gives a shit about, and Halo 5 certainly didn't make me feel invested in him. He could have been killed at the end of Halo 5 and it wouldn't have affected me at all. Buck was easily the only thing that made Fireteam Osiris interesting. But hell, even Vale and Tanaka are better characters than Locke at this point.
(a criticism that has been leveled against almost every Halo game)
Has it?
(a criticism that has been leveled against almost every Halo game)
Has it?
I do believe so. I've seen plenty of complaints about the fact that Master Chief doesn't make any decisions or have any agency in the games; he just does whatever Cortana (or Keyes or Hood or whoever) says he needs to do.
Which isn't exactly that same as the player not being responsible for things happening in the story, but it basically is. How much was Chief really responsible for in any Halo? He destroyed Halo, killed Regret, destroyed another Halo . . . all because Cortana told him to. Cortana has more agency in any of the games than the Chief does. It's not the Chief (or the player) deciding to do things, it's the Chief (and the player) following instructions.
EDIT: By the way, this isn't a complaint I have, just one I have frequently seen.
(a criticism that has been leveled against almost every Halo game)
Has it?
I do believe so. I've seen plenty of complaints about the fact that Master Chief doesn't make any decisions or have any agency in the games; he just does whatever Cortana (or Keyes or Hood or whoever) says he needs to do.Which isn't exactly that same as the player not being responsible for things happening in the story, but it basically is. How much was Chief really responsible for in any Halo? He destroyed Halo, killed Regret, destroyed another Halo . . . all because Cortana told him to. Cortana has more agency in any of the games than the Chief does. It's not the Chief (or the player) deciding to do things, it's the Chief (and the player) following instructions.
EDIT: By the way, this isn't a complaint I have, just one I have frequently seen.
Oh yeah, the agency thing. No, you're right there. I haven't seen the "the character doesn't do anything to advance the story" complaint.
I do believe so. I've seen plenty of complaints about the fact that Master Chief doesn't make any decisions or have any agency in the games; he just does whatever Cortana (or Keyes or Hood or whoever) says he needs to do.
First of all, the chief is a good soldier that doesn't question the mission (unless it's complete and utter BS like in Halo 4). Secondly, Chief does whatever is needed to fulfill the mission, even improvising when Cortana or others don't know what to do.
Cortana: "there's nothing i can do"
Chief: "How much firepower would it take to crack the engine's shields?"
***
Chief: "Sir, Permission to leave the station"
Lord Hood: "why?"
Chief: "To give the covenant back their bomb."
***
Saving Cortana in Halo 3 (no higher ranking personnel on the Ark to tell him yes or no)
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Just finished the campaign
by uberfoop , Seattle-ish, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 19:18 (3405 days ago) @ Funkmon
Has it?
Of course. And the statement of how the player character behaves is pretty hard to dispute.
The question is whether it's actually a problem.
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What game doesn't? I'm confused...
by Revenant1988
, How do I forum?, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 20:38 (3405 days ago) @ cheapLEY
When it comes right down to it, yes, the player (as Locke or Chief) doesn't really do anything other than react to the situation (a criticism that has been leveled against almost every Halo game), and that is unfortunate. It's definitely something 343i should work on.
Um.... everything I do as a player (in any game*) is based on reacting to a situation (gameplay and story).
(Halo, Arkham series, Bioshock, Doom, Bloodborne)
So...I... am I just being nit picky here? I'm genuinely confused by this line.
In Destiny's light-weight campaign, everything my Guardian does is a reaction to a given situation, usually what Ghost tells me to do. By the end of the game, I'm not really sure what I've accomplished by blowing up the black garden.
I got a gun out of it, I guess.
The rest of the DLC doesn't offer much closure to a greater story arc either. I guess now that Oryx is dead it's hinted that the Cabal are the next threat... but I still don't know what all this 'darkness' hulla-buloo' is.
So while TTK improved upon story telling and character development compared to year 1 Desitny, Destiny's campaign is still incredibly unsatisfactory to me, and leaves me wanting more in a bad way.
There is being mysterious to build tension in the plot and then there is being mysterious because there is no plot. For better or worse, Halo 5 has a plot. We learned that Destiny's plot was scuttled in the 11th and reshaped to what we have before us.
I guess maybe it's a wash both ways because it only matters if the viewer\reader\player likes it anyway.
[*The only exception to this in my mind is Patrol mode, where I do what I want when I want, but now that I think about THAT I'm not even sure my time spent in patrol counts towards my Destiny head canon.]
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What game doesn't? I'm confused...
by cheapLEY , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 21:31 (3405 days ago) @ Revenant1988
When it comes right down to it, yes, the player (as Locke or Chief) doesn't really do anything other than react to the situation (a criticism that has been leveled against almost every Halo game), and that is unfortunate. It's definitely something 343i should work on.
Um.... everything I do as a player (in any game*) is based on reacting to a situation (gameplay and story).(Halo, Arkham series, Bioshock, Doom, Bloodborne)
So...I... am I just being nit picky here? I'm genuinely confused by this line.
As I said, that's not a complaint I have with Halo (or any game), but one I have seen voiced in multiple instances in Halo conversations. I have actually quite often argued the same thing you are: at the end of the day, every game is just you doing what you're told.
I think the argument stems from the fact that in a lot of games, the character you are playing is making decisions to do things. They're not just taking orders like the Master Chief is, which is what a lot people take issue with in Halo.
Basically, the players (us) are just following directions in every game, but in most games, the characters we are playing as aren't; they're actually making decisions.
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Just finished the campaign
by Funkmon , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 19:14 (3405 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by Funkmon, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 19:18
I'm not sure it matters. In the new Mad Max movie, he didn't do anything either. It was still good. And I know video games aren't movies.
I read it, and they are correct at almost every point. I am still happy with the story. What does that mean?
It means it didn't fail. It means the story was just not what they expected.
Chief and Locke were not the main characters of the story. They were just the observers. The dudes the camera was following. This framework has worked for a looooong time. Gamesradar just can't think outside their "I just took Creative Writing 151" box.
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Just finished the campaign
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 22:04 (3405 days ago) @ Funkmon
I'm not sure it matters. In the new Mad Max movie, he didn't do anything either. It was still good. And I know video games aren't movies.
I read it, and they are correct at almost every point. I am still happy with the story. What does that mean?
It means it didn't fail. It means the story was just not what they expected.
Chief and Locke were not the main characters of the story. They were just the observers. The dudes the camera was following. This framework has worked for a looooong time. Gamesradar just can't think outside their "I just took Creative Writing 151" box.
I'm not totally with you there. Mad Max wasn't the driving force of the movie, but he absolutely shaped and affected the outcome. Chief and Locke had literally no impact on the outcome of Halo 5.
In the past, I'd be the first to argue that Chief (like Mad Max) was not what the story was about. But 343 has changed that. Chief isn't just a cypher anymore. We're supposed to be invested in him as the main character now.
For me, I found Halo 5's story enjoyable because we got to see some amazing places, took part in significant battles, and had some fantastic character moments along the way.
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Just finished the campaign
by Funkmon , Monday, November 02, 2015, 01:00 (3405 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
I'm not sure it matters. In the new Mad Max movie, he didn't do anything either. It was still good. And I know video games aren't movies.
I read it, and they are correct at almost every point. I am still happy with the story. What does that mean?
It means it didn't fail. It means the story was just not what they expected.
Chief and Locke were not the main characters of the story. They were just the observers. The dudes the camera was following. This framework has worked for a looooong time. Gamesradar just can't think outside their "I just took Creative Writing 151" box.
I'm not totally with you there. Mad Max wasn't the driving force of the movie, but he absolutely shaped and affected the outcome. Chief and Locke had literally no impact on the outcome of Halo 5.
He didn't really do anything, but even then, there are plenty of other films and stories like this. Look at Raiders of the Lost Ark, for example. He had even less effect than Locke and the Chief. It's a really well established thing.
In the past, I'd be the first to argue that Chief (like Mad Max) was not what the story was about. But 343 has changed that. Chief isn't just a cypher anymore. We're supposed to be invested in him as the main character now.
I don't think we are. It is clear to me from the Halo 5 story that we AREN'T. The Chief doesn't really have any moments of character. He chooses to go get Cortana (a moment of agency) but we don't know what really motivated him. To me, it was Cole protocol and/or valuable intel. To others, it may have been some emotional thing. The point is, he is vague so he is an everyman.
For me, I found Halo 5's story enjoyable because we got to see some amazing places, took part in significant battles, and had some fantastic character moments along the way.
I agree, but I also liked the actual story.
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Just finished the campaign
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, November 02, 2015, 03:47 (3405 days ago) @ Funkmon
I'm not sure it matters. In the new Mad Max movie, he didn't do anything either. It was still good. And I know video games aren't movies.
I read it, and they are correct at almost every point. I am still happy with the story. What does that mean?
It means it didn't fail. It means the story was just not what they expected.
Chief and Locke were not the main characters of the story. They were just the observers. The dudes the camera was following. This framework has worked for a looooong time. Gamesradar just can't think outside their "I just took Creative Writing 151" box.
I'm not totally with you there. Mad Max wasn't the driving force of the movie, but he absolutely shaped and affected the outcome. Chief and Locke had literally no impact on the outcome of Halo 5.
He didn't really do anything, but even then, there are plenty of other films and stories like this. Look at Raiders of the Lost Ark, for example. He had even less effect than Locke and the Chief. It's a really well established thing.
Mad Max made a big difference to the outcome of the film; they wouldn't have made it to the "green land" without him, he convinced them to go back, and he helped make their return possible. Chief and Locke on the other hand change literally nothing about the outcome of Halo 5.
In the past, I'd be the first to argue that Chief (like Mad Max) was not what the story was about. But 343 has changed that. Chief isn't just a cypher anymore. We're supposed to be invested in him as the main character now.
I don't think we are. It is clear to me from the Halo 5 story that we AREN'T. The Chief doesn't really have any moments of character. He chooses to go get Cortana (a moment of agency) but we don't know what really motivated him. To me, it was Cole protocol and/or valuable intel. To others, it may have been some emotional thing. The point is, he is vague so he is an everyman.
343 has talked explicitly about how Chief is supposed to be the star of this new trilogy, with his growth as a hero being the driving force behind everything. They've made entire ViDocs about how they're trying to explore who chief is and make us care about him more than ever. To me, he sure seems to be the star of the show.
I'm not totally with you there. Mad Max wasn't the driving force of the movie, but he absolutely shaped and affected the outcome. Chief and Locke had literally no impact on the outcome of Halo 5.
He didn't really do anything, but even then, there are plenty of other films and stories like this. Look at Raiders of the Lost Ark, for example. He had even less effect than Locke and the Chief. It's a really well established thing.
No it's not.
If Indiana Jones hadn't been on the hunt for the Ark of the Covenant, the Nazis would likely have found Marion Ravenwood and tortured her to death for the amulet. She lived only because Indiana Jones returned to save her... well, get the amulet too, but saving her was likely #1 on the Things To Do List.
But that's not all! Remember that nifty airplane that was parked at the dig site? The one that pureed Heinrich the Hefty shortly before it caught fire and exploded? It doesn't exist. But look at it! It's a flying-wing design years before such aircraft were developed in earnest! There's no reason for it to be at an archaeological dig site in Egypt, unless, you know, the Nazis planned to fly the Ark back to Germany.
So, Indiana Jones foiled that plan. And the backup plan to either drive the Ark up to Germany or fly it out of Cairo. And then he arranged for the Ark to be smuggled to America. He was hardly doing nothing.
Of course, there's people who say that without Indy mucking up every stage of the Nazi's plans, the Ark would have been taken to Germany to be opened in front of Hitler and a bunch of other Nazi high officials. That assertion doesn't hold water. The Nazis wanted a weapon, but Rene Belloq wanted to talk to personally talk to God, and that's hard to do with Adolf Hitler standing right behind you. Doubtlessly, he would have staged that exact same ceremony and got himself and everyone around him killed for their trouble. Pretty much the same ending as Raiders of the Lost Ark, except the Ark is smack-dab in the middle of Nazi territory. It's either a weapon for the Nazi regime, or a filthy Jewish icon that must be destroyed.
The Ark is much better off in a forgotten warehouse than it is in Nazi Germany.
+1
by Avateur , Sunday, November 08, 2015, 06:36 (3399 days ago) @ Quirel
I was so proud of myself when I didn't respond to the ridiculousness that was implied about Indiana Jones or film/writing in general, but I definitely must thank you.
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Just finished the campaign
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, November 02, 2015, 16:37 (3404 days ago) @ Funkmon
I'm not sure it matters. In the new Mad Max movie, he didn't do anything either. It was still good.
You didn't pay much attention to the movie then if you think he didn't do anything. He was the one who told them to turn around! They wouldn't have won without that.
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Just finished the campaign
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, November 02, 2015, 12:19 (3404 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
It's pretty obvious to me it's a bridge narrative to Halo 6.
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Just finished the campaign
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, November 02, 2015, 13:13 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
It's pretty obvious to me it's a bridge narrative to Halo 6.
Oh, totally. It reminds me of "Empire Strikes Back" in a few ways. I thought the story worked just fine within the context of a videogame. I got to go to amazing locations and fight a bunch of bad guys, and I always knew why I was doing what I was doing. But I also understand why some people would say the story doesn't hold up on its own terms.
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Just finished the campaign
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, November 02, 2015, 14:14 (3404 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
It's pretty obvious to me it's a bridge narrative to Halo 6.
Oh, totally. It reminds me of "Empire Strikes Back" in a few ways. I thought the story worked just fine within the context of a videogame. I got to go to amazing locations and fight a bunch of bad guys, and I always knew why I was doing what I was doing. But I also understand why some people would say the story doesn't hold up on its own terms.
I actually think the writing stands up to the best of the series, without the almost predictable clunker lines present in most entries--"To War," "Were it so easy," "TWSS." At least nothing jumped out at me in one playthrough.
I do have a joke, though, about Halsey telling a Knock Knock joke.
Knock, Knock
Who's there?
It took you long enough.
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Agree so hard
by kidtsunami , Atlanta, GA, Monday, November 02, 2015, 15:28 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
It's pretty obvious to me it's a bridge narrative to Halo 6.
Oh, totally. It reminds me of "Empire Strikes Back" in a few ways. I thought the story worked just fine within the context of a videogame. I got to go to amazing locations and fight a bunch of bad guys, and I always knew why I was doing what I was doing. But I also understand why some people would say the story doesn't hold up on its own terms.
I actually think the writing stands up to the best of the series, without the almost predictable clunker lines present in most entries--"To War," "Were it so easy," "TWSS." At least nothing jumped out at me in one playthrough.I do have a joke, though, about Halsey telling a Knock Knock joke.
Knock, Knock
Who's there?
It took you long enough.
While my party of 4 was having a great time Tuesday laughing about whatever we could fine, there was nothing nearly as cringe worthy as those clunkers you speak of.
I'm actually much more interested in playing through this game multiple times, re-inspecting each data pad and exploring spaces that felt much more like "places" rather than corridors. The narrative was interesting to me, making me think about loyalties to king, country, and each other.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, November 02, 2015, 15:35 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
It's pretty obvious to me it's a bridge narrative to Halo 6.
Oh, totally. It reminds me of "Empire Strikes Back" in a few ways. I thought the story worked just fine within the context of a videogame. I got to go to amazing locations and fight a bunch of bad guys, and I always knew why I was doing what I was doing. But I also understand why some people would say the story doesn't hold up on its own terms.
I actually think the writing stands up to the best of the series, without the almost predictable clunker lines present in most entries--"To War," "Were it so easy," "TWSS." At least nothing jumped out at me in one playthrough.I do have a joke, though, about Halsey telling a Knock Knock joke.
Knock, Knock
Who's there?
It took you long enough.
I think the moment-to-moment writing is mostly great. My favorite moment is the cutscene on the Infinity where Halsey reveals that Cortana is a threat, and Roland loses his temper in the process of defending Cortana. There's a lot of subtle character motivations and reflections going on there. It's a level of writing that Halo has never really dipped in to before.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 16:20 (3404 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
I think the moment-to-moment writing is mostly great. My favorite moment is the cutscene on the Infinity where Halsey reveals that Cortana is a threat, and Roland loses his temper in the process of defending Cortana. There's a lot of subtle character motivations and reflections going on there. It's a level of writing that Halo has never really dipped in to before.
My favorite is still the scene with Chief asking Cortana to come home, but the scene with Roland is a close second.
I'm really interested to see where this story goes, particularly in Roland's motivations for sticking with the Infinity and humanity in general.
I also want to know the status of all the other AI. We obviously get the impression that quite a few of them join up with Cortana, but I don't think it was ALL of them, so I'd like to see how that plays out.
The story also makes me disappointed there is no Spartan Ops, as it seems like it could be a good way to pick up some of the pieces immediately after Halo 5, with the Infinity sending out Spartan strike teams as they jump around the galaxy trying to figure out exactly what's going down.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, November 02, 2015, 17:00 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
I think the moment-to-moment writing is mostly great. My favorite moment is the cutscene on the Infinity where Halsey reveals that Cortana is a threat, and Roland loses his temper in the process of defending Cortana. There's a lot of subtle character motivations and reflections going on there. It's a level of writing that Halo has never really dipped in to before.
My favorite is still the scene with Chief asking Cortana to come home, but the scene with Roland is a close second.I'm really interested to see where this story goes, particularly in Roland's motivations for sticking with the Infinity and humanity in general.
I also want to know the status of all the other AI. We obviously get the impression that quite a few of them join up with Cortana, but I don't think it was ALL of them, so I'd like to see how that plays out.
Exuberant Witness doesn't.
The story also makes me disappointed there is no Spartan Ops, as it seems like it could be a good way to pick up some of the pieces immediately after Halo 5, with the Infinity sending out Spartan strike teams as they jump around the galaxy trying to figure out exactly what's going down.
I'm not really missing Spartan Ops, frankly, but I'd welcome a Spartan Ops that was less dude broish, to use a technical term. A firefight mode of some sort would be cool. We kind of have it with Warzone, I guess.
Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Claude Errera , Monday, November 02, 2015, 17:45 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
I also want to know the status of all the other AI. We obviously get the impression that quite a few of them join up with Cortana, but I don't think it was ALL of them, so I'd like to see how that plays out.
Exuberant Witness doesn't.
Neither does Roland.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, November 02, 2015, 18:17 (3404 days ago) @ Claude Errera
I also want to know the status of all the other AI. We obviously get the impression that quite a few of them join up with Cortana, but I don't think it was ALL of them, so I'd like to see how that plays out.
Exuberant Witness doesn't.
Neither does Roland.
Something about this has my spidey sense tingling. Considering how emotional Roland was while defending Cortana, I find it a bit strange that he is one of the few who didn't join her... or did he? ;)
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by uberfoop , Seattle-ish, Monday, November 02, 2015, 18:34 (3404 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
Something about this has my spidey sense tingling. Considering how emotional Roland was while defending Cortana, I find it a bit strange that he is one of the few who didn't join her... or did he? ;)
That Cortana seems to have been looking for Infinity suggests otherwise.
One possibility is that he wasn't contacted when others were.
Another possibility is that although Roland sympathizes with Cortana's situation, he's also too proud a warrior. Certainly seemed like he wanted to give the Guardian a taste of Infinity's guns.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 18:39 (3404 days ago) @ uberfoop
Something about this has my spidey sense tingling. Considering how emotional Roland was while defending Cortana, I find it a bit strange that he is one of the few who didn't join her... or did he? ;)
That Cortana seems to have been looking for Infinity suggests otherwise.One possibility is that he wasn't contacted when others were.
Another possibility is that although Roland sympathizes with Cortana's situation, he's also too proud a warrior. Certainly seemed like he wanted to give the Guardian a taste of Infinity's guns.
Or that's what he wanted Lasky and Co. to think so they would turn around. (:
I can't reconcile Cortana looking for the Infinity if Roland was in any way on her side, though.
I certainly didn't get the feeling that Cruel seems to have about Roland being a double agent of sorts. I firmly believe that he is truly on the side of humanity, although I don't really have anything to back that up.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, November 02, 2015, 19:44 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Something about this has my spidey sense tingling. Considering how emotional Roland was while defending Cortana, I find it a bit strange that he is one of the few who didn't join her... or did he? ;)
That Cortana seems to have been looking for Infinity suggests otherwise.One possibility is that he wasn't contacted when others were.
Another possibility is that although Roland sympathizes with Cortana's situation, he's also too proud a warrior. Certainly seemed like he wanted to give the Guardian a taste of Infinity's guns.
Or that's what he wanted Lasky and Co. to think so they would turn around. (:I can't reconcile Cortana looking for the Infinity if Roland was in any way on her side, though.
I certainly didn't get the feeling that Cruel seems to have about Roland being a double agent of sorts. I firmly believe that he is truly on the side of humanity, although I don't really have anything to back that up.
Also consider that he wasn't exactly Mr. Reliable in Halo 4.
The best ideas I've read regarding the Halo 5 story were in Lionheart's post on DBO, but you already know about that one. :)
This thread really should not be in the Destiny category.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 20:32 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
Also consider that he wasn't exactly Mr. Reliable in Halo 4.
How so? I played through Halo 4 a month or so ago, but I already don't recall the particulars, and I definitely don't remember anything that would make you characterize Roland that way. There probably is something, but I just honestly don't remember.
The best ideas I've read regarding the Halo 5 story were in Lionheart's post on DBO, but you already know about that one. :)
Yeah, that's a great post, and definitely stuff I wouldn't have put together. I haven't read any of the Forerunner trilogy since they were released, so I definitely didn't recall pretty much any of that.
This thread really should not be in the Destiny category.
Heh, no it shouldn't. I can't blame him, though; I forget that DBO has categories more often than not.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, November 02, 2015, 18:51 (3404 days ago) @ uberfoop
Something about this has my spidey sense tingling. Considering how emotional Roland was while defending Cortana, I find it a bit strange that he is one of the few who didn't join her... or did he? ;)
That Cortana seems to have been looking for Infinity suggests otherwise.
Not necessarily. The thing that struck me about it all is that we got no reaction from Roland to the events at the end of the game. We didn't see him turn her down, or react in any way. This surprised me since 343 went out of their way to establish the fact that Roland sympathizes with Cortana's situation. So I asked myself "why didn't we see any reaction?". We assume Roland didn't join her because he doesn't pledge his loyalty to her, and he seems to continue his usual duties on board the Infinity. But what if that's not actually the case?
*We know that Cortana wants to find John.
*We know that John and the Infinity will undoubtedly try to find each other.
*What if Roland agrees to play "double agent" until Lasky and Co. locate John?
Seems plausible to me, at least.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by uberfoop , Seattle-ish, Monday, November 02, 2015, 19:06 (3404 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
Seems plausible to me, at least.
Oh, definitely. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I just don't think that other possibilities are particularly unlikely.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 18:20 (3404 days ago) @ Claude Errera
I also want to know the status of all the other AI. We obviously get the impression that quite a few of them join up with Cortana, but I don't think it was ALL of them, so I'd like to see how that plays out.
Exuberant Witness doesn't.
Neither does Roland.
Well, yes, those two are given to us. I hadn't actually given much consideration to the Forerunner AIs and was really just thinking about the Human created AIs, but I'm not actually sure the story of Halo 5 makes that distinction by referring to them as the Created. I suppose Forerunner AIs would be included there, too.
I just think they've created a potentially interesting dynamic regarding humanity's AIs. Will we trust the ones that didn't turn? Do we even know if a specific AI joined Cortana or not? Could they theoretically have joined Cortana on Genesis while also retaining control of the ships, orbital platforms, defense stations, ONI bases, etc that they are assigned to?
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 18:23 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
I'm not really missing Spartan Ops, frankly, but I'd welcome a Spartan Ops that was less dude broish, to use a technical term. A firefight mode of some sort would be cool. We kind of have it with Warzone, I guess.
From what it was in Halo 4, I'm not really missing it either. But I think this is sort of a missed opportunity. They could have revitalized it, making the gameplay more interesting in some way, but it definitely seems like it could be a great format following Halo 5's campaign for continuing the story, which is really what I'm missing. I want more story, and I think Spartan Ops was pretty decent in that regard in Halo 4.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, November 02, 2015, 19:36 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
I'm not really missing Spartan Ops, frankly, but I'd welcome a Spartan Ops that was less dude broish, to use a technical term. A firefight mode of some sort would be cool. We kind of have it with Warzone, I guess.
From what it was in Halo 4, I'm not really missing it either. But I think this is sort of a missed opportunity. They could have revitalized it, making the gameplay more interesting in some way, but it definitely seems like it could be a great format following Halo 5's campaign for continuing the story, which is really what I'm missing. I want more story, and I think Spartan Ops was pretty decent in that regard in Halo 4.
The more I think about it, the more I think that if Spartan Ops had Halo 5's squad mechanics, I'd be there.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 20:28 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
The more I think about it, the more I think that if Spartan Ops had Halo 5's squad mechanics, I'd be there.
I saw your post at HBO; you seem to really like the squad mechanics. Care to enlighten me?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see anything in those mechanics that is particularly noteworthy. I don't recall actually using them much, other than calling for revives which may or may not happen (I somehow usually find myself on some ledge or something that the AI has a hard time getting to). I didn't tell them to shoot anything more than a handful of times. I'm not saying they're bad (or that you're wrong) by any means.
I mean, they seem more competent than the normal Halo ally AI, I just feel like maybe I'm missing something from the way you talk about it.
Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Claude Errera , Monday, November 02, 2015, 20:33 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
The more I think about it, the more I think that if Spartan Ops had Halo 5's squad mechanics, I'd be there.
I saw your post at HBO; you seem to really like the squad mechanics. Care to enlighten me?Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see anything in those mechanics that is particularly noteworthy. I don't recall actually using them much, other than calling for revives which may or may not happen (I somehow usually find myself on some ledge or something that the AI has a hard time getting to). I didn't tell them to shoot anything more than a handful of times. I'm not saying they're bad (or that you're wrong) by any means.
I mean, they seem more competent than the normal Halo ally AI, I just feel like maybe I'm missing something from the way you talk about it.
Yeah, I'm with you on this; I used them only once, really - the battle against the three wardens on the second-to-last level. After beating my head against the wall of those wardens, I went back and scavenged larger weapons (Binary Rifles and Incineration Cannons) from the previous room, and armed them properly - then set them up against a wall where they could help me take the wardens down one at a time.
It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
Otherwise, though, they were just revive suppliers. :)
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, November 02, 2015, 20:38 (3404 days ago) @ Claude Errera
The more I think about it, the more I think that if Spartan Ops had Halo 5's squad mechanics, I'd be there.
I saw your post at HBO; you seem to really like the squad mechanics. Care to enlighten me?Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see anything in those mechanics that is particularly noteworthy. I don't recall actually using them much, other than calling for revives which may or may not happen (I somehow usually find myself on some ledge or something that the AI has a hard time getting to). I didn't tell them to shoot anything more than a handful of times. I'm not saying they're bad (or that you're wrong) by any means.
I mean, they seem more competent than the normal Halo ally AI, I just feel like maybe I'm missing something from the way you talk about it.
Yeah, I'm with you on this; I used them only once, really - the battle against the three wardens on the second-to-last level. After beating my head against the wall of those wardens, I went back and scavenged larger weapons (Binary Rifles and Incineration Cannons) from the previous room, and armed them properly - then set them up against a wall where they could help me take the wardens down one at a time.It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
Otherwise, though, they were just revive suppliers. :)
Playing on Heroic and Legendary, I found focus-firing on specific targets to be quite helpful. Especially heavily shielded enemies (knights, zealots, etc). Bringing them down solo can take quite a bit of ammo and time, but get 3 or 4 spartans firing together and most foes will drop fairly quickly.
Of course, this backfired almost as often as it helped, since the AI would often bite off more than it could chew and get taken down by whatever enemy I'd ordered them to fire at.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 20:57 (3404 days ago) @ Claude Errera
It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
Otherwise, though, they were just revive suppliers. :)
I absolutely HATED that fight.
But after about six tries, I finally got through it with little difficulty. I didn't even notice at first, but the two pillars that sort of flank the center of the room have platforms that you can get on. When you're up there, the Wardens can't hit you with their swords, so you can just sort of run circles around the pillar to hide from them when they shoot and take potshots at them.
It's not exactly fun, but I was having a lot of trouble otherwise. It was the one part where I definitely felt like the companion AI was insufficient. I couldn't even get them to stay alive, much less doing anything helpful.
Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Claude Errera , Monday, November 02, 2015, 21:06 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
Otherwise, though, they were just revive suppliers. :)
I absolutely HATED that fight.But after about six tries, I finally got through it with little difficulty. I didn't even notice at first, but the two pillars that sort of flank the center of the room have platforms that you can get on. When you're up there, the Wardens can't hit you with their swords, so you can just sort of run circles around the pillar to hide from them when they shoot and take potshots at them.
Heh - I figured that out, too... but did a crappy job of running around the top - I'd either miss one of those nasty balls as they came in, or I'd fall off. ;)
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Schedonnardus, Texas, Tuesday, November 03, 2015, 13:07 (3403 days ago) @ cheapLEY
It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
Otherwise, though, they were just revive suppliers. :)
I absolutely HATED that fight.But after about six tries, I finally got through it with little difficulty. I didn't even notice at first, but the two pillars that sort of flank the center of the room have platforms that you can get on. When you're up there, the Wardens can't hit you with their swords, so you can just sort of run circles around the pillar to hide from them when they shoot and take potshots at them.
Where are you talking about? I got on top of one of the two tall pillars in the middle and it said "return to battlefield." Is there a different pillar you are talking about?
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Tuesday, November 03, 2015, 17:48 (3403 days ago) @ Schedonnardus
It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
Otherwise, though, they were just revive suppliers. :)
I absolutely HATED that fight.But after about six tries, I finally got through it with little difficulty. I didn't even notice at first, but the two pillars that sort of flank the center of the room have platforms that you can get on. When you're up there, the Wardens can't hit you with their swords, so you can just sort of run circles around the pillar to hide from them when they shoot and take potshots at them.
Where are you talking about? I got on top of one of the two tall pillars in the middle and it said "return to battlefield." Is there a different pillar you are talking about?
They're the first two you see when you enter the room. And you don't get on top of them, there is a platform that's just taller than a Spartan that rings the pillars. You're clearly meant to be there, as there are Forerunner gun racks on the platforms, but it's just high enough to be out of reach of the Warden's melee.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by uberfoop , Seattle-ish, Monday, November 02, 2015, 21:19 (3404 days ago) @ Claude Errera
It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
When I played through by myself, the Warden fights were all janky and/or frustrating. I figured that maybe they were designed for coop.
When I played the 3-warden fight in coop, it was pointlessly easy.
There doesn't really seem to be a sweet spot.
...In addition to the conceptual oddity of the idea, given how Halo 2's bosses were I was surprised that a lot of people wanted a Gravemind boss fight in Halo 3. Halo 5 hasn't really changed my outlook on the matter.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 22:26 (3404 days ago) @ uberfoop
It was STILL frustrating (I think this would ALL be easier in coop), but it worked. ;)
When I played through by myself, the Warden fights were all janky and/or frustrating. I figured that maybe they were designed for coop.When I played the 3-warden fight in coop, it was pointlessly easy.
There doesn't really seem to be a sweet spot.
...In addition to the conceptual oddity of the idea, given how Halo 2's bosses were I was surprised that a lot of people wanted a Gravemind boss fight in Halo 3. Halo 5 hasn't really changed my outlook on the matter.
Yeah, it seems pretty clearly designed for co-op (at least on the two higher difficulties). It kinda sucks. Right now it's just that one thing, so it's not a huge deal, but I don't really want Halo to go that route, and even that one thing is just frustrating enough to be annoying. It just doesn't seem like good design to me.
I'm not looking forward to those fights on Legendary, that's for sure. It's the only part where I might pressure some friends into jumping in with me to get through.
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Wardens....Legendary....
by Mid7night
, Rocket BSCHSHCSHSHCCHGGH!!!!!!, Tuesday, November 03, 2015, 04:28 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
I'm not looking forward to those fights on Legendary, that's for sure. It's the only part where I might pressure some friends into jumping in with me to get through.
Or you could, y'know, not fight them at all apparently....
I will definitely remember that!
Yeah, I gotta do this for my legendary run before they patch it out!
- MacGyver10
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I kinda want prove to myself I can do it for real.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, November 03, 2015, 18:10 (3403 days ago) @ MacGyver10
- No text -
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I kinda want prove to myself I can do it for real.
by MacGyver10 , Tennessee, Wednesday, November 04, 2015, 12:33 (3402 days ago) @ Kermit
You're more of a man than I! Solo wrecked me on Heroic.
- MacGyver10
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I kinda want prove to myself I can do it for real.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, November 04, 2015, 13:42 (3402 days ago) @ MacGyver10
It was definitely a struggle, but once I realized you got a checkpoint after each kill, I took heart. :)
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, November 02, 2015, 20:49 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
The more I think about it, the more I think that if Spartan Ops had Halo 5's squad mechanics, I'd be there.
I saw your post at HBO; you seem to really like the squad mechanics. Care to enlighten me?Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see anything in those mechanics that is particularly noteworthy. I don't recall actually using them much, other than calling for revives which may or may not happen (I somehow usually find myself on some ledge or something that the AI has a hard time getting to). I didn't tell them to shoot anything more than a handful of times. I'm not saying they're bad (or that you're wrong) by any means.
I mean, they seem more competent than the normal Halo ally AI, I just feel like maybe I'm missing something from the way you talk about it.
First of all, it's far from perfect and it's easy to screw up, but I've found myself doing new things, like sending them to the left when I'm right, just to get the hunter to turn. Learning when it's smart to target an enemy, how far apart is too far, etc. has been fun. Also, they can revive each other, so I'll direct one to do that and I'll cover them. I used to try to protect marines in Halo, which was nearly impossible before. Now it seems possible, and I find that a cool dynamic. Loading them all up with heavies, while not quite the Death Blossom of Halo 3 days, is fun and helpful in later levels, when you need to focus fire on a warden. It's a new wrinkle to Halo weapon juggling.
Being able to direct more than myself on the battlefield brings a new kind of fun to Halo for me. It adds more options for experimentation at least.
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Just finished the campaign *Halo 5 Spoilers*
by cheapLEY , Monday, November 02, 2015, 20:54 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
First of all, it's far from perfect and it's easy to screw up, but I've found myself doing new things, like sending them to the left when I'm right, just to get the hunter to turn. Learning when it's smart to target an enemy, how far apart is too far, etc. has been fun. Also, they can revive each other, so I'll direct one to do that and I'll cover them. I used to try to protect marines in Halo, which was nearly impossible before. Now it seems possible, and I find that a cool dynamic. Loading them all up with heavies, while not quite the Death Blossom of Halo 3 days, is fun and helpful in later levels, when you need to focus fire on a warden. It's a new wrinkle to Halo weapon juggling.
Being able to direct more than myself on the battlefield brings a new kind of fun to Halo for me. It adds more options for experimentation at least.
You definitely make it sound interesting. I guess maybe I need to experiment more. I found myself falling back into my old Halo playstyle routine, which basically amounts to ignoring ally AI and shooting bad guys. I guess when approached in that manner, the squad mechanics wouldn't stand out . . .
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Exuberant Witness ....
by Mid7night
, Rocket BSCHSHCSHSHCCHGGH!!!!!!, Monday, November 02, 2015, 19:36 (3404 days ago) @ Kermit
....Totally reminds me of ORF (X-Ray & Vav). That's all I could think of as soon as we met EW. Anyone else?
....Totally reminds me of ORF (X-Ray & Vav). That's all I could think of as soon as we met EW. Anyone else?
I had to google what that is, so I can't say. (:
I will say that Exuberant Witness might be my favorite thing in Halo 5, though. She's just a little ball of special cuteness.
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Exuberant Witness ....
by narcogen
, Andover, Massachusetts, Monday, November 02, 2015, 23:38 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
....Totally reminds me of ORF (X-Ray & Vav). That's all I could think of as soon as we met EW. Anyone else?
I had to google what that is, so I can't say. (:I will say that Exuberant Witness might be my favorite thing in Halo 5, though. She's just a little ball of special cuteness.
Also a bit on the nose, though.
Was Guilty Spark guilty?
Not really.
Did Penitent Tangent act penitent?
No, not really.
Is Exuberant Witness exuberant?
You bet.
Also a bit on the nose, though.
Is Exuberant Witness exuberant?
You bet.
Oh, don't get me wrong, she is extremely ridiculous, and obviously a bit literal in her naming, but damnit if I don't love her anyway.
Like everything in Halo 5 (I think), it's a borderline asinine idea pulled off spectacularly well.
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Exuberant Witness ....
by narcogen
, Andover, Massachusetts, Tuesday, November 03, 2015, 00:53 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Also a bit on the nose, though.
Is Exuberant Witness exuberant?
You bet.
Oh, don't get me wrong, she is extremely ridiculous, and obviously a bit literal in her naming, but damnit if I don't love her anyway.Like everything in Halo 5 (I think), it's a borderline asinine idea pulled off spectacularly well.
You're half right.
I do have to say, the only point I actually had any interest was when the Arbiter showed up... and then went away again after about thirty seconds.
The next interesting part was when EW showed up.
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A ball of special cuteness...
by Mid7night
, Rocket BSCHSHCSHSHCCHGGH!!!!!!, Tuesday, November 03, 2015, 01:14 (3404 days ago) @ cheapLEY
She's just a little ball of special cuteness.
LOL, which is exactly why I thought of Orf. Seriously, look up some X-Ray & Vav episode with Orf (voiced by Barbara Dunkleman), it's hilariously awesome. :D
Just finished the campaign
by Avateur , Sunday, November 01, 2015, 20:47 (3405 days ago) @ petetheduck
edited by Avateur, Sunday, November 01, 2015, 21:02
Hey to each their own. Dumbass111 lol j/k
But when the intro sucks, and the story itself still sucks, the ending being better than the bad intro is still not hard to hit when the bar was super low. But if you have fun playing, do the thing. Not like you paid for it, so you win no matter what. :D