I'll say up front: I play way more than the average Destiny player. My experience with the game is probably a bit different than most other guardians out there. I'm writing this because I'm curious if others are running in to the same issue I am, or if it is just a result of the amount I play. I also spend 99% of my time with Destiny doing high-level activities; raids, trials, Iron Banner, heroic strikes... activities where having a high light level is crucial, so keep that in mind as well.

One of the things that I love about TTK on paper is the vast selection of fun, diverse weaponry and armor that is now in the game. Unfortunately, I've hit a point where I feel like I can't take advantage of most of it.

As it stands now, most new legendary gear drops at roughly 280. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower, but most of what I see comes in around there. As someone who is focusing on gearing up for Trials and hard-mode Oryx, level 280 gear is a long way from usable for me.

Let's say I get a new weapon, either through a drop or arms day. Here's my thought process due to the current system:

1) Does it have base-stats I like?

if yes...

2) Awesome! Does it have perks that I like to use?

if yes...

3) No way! Is it worth spending weeks or even months dumping weapon parts and materials into upgrading it, and then even more parts and materials into infusing its light level upwards, assuming I happen to get multiple other weapons from the raid and/or trials that are high enough level to get this beauty up to the 310 neighbourhood?

So you see where my problem is. At this point, the primary way to get gear above level 300 is the raid (and now Trials). I've run the raid every week since it launched, often on multiple characters, and I can count on 1 hand the number of weapons I've got that dropped higher than 300. To this day, I still only have 1 legendary heavy weapon higher than 300 (a 302 raid rocket launcher). So if I want my character to reach level 310 or higher (which is generally considered critical when it comes to defeating hard-mode Oryx), the rest of my gear needs to be even higher to make up for the gear slots where I can barely crack the 300 mark. Making things even worse is the fact that infusing gear only gives you an 80% bump. If I'm lucky enough to get a 308 heavy weapon from the raid, It will only get my current highest heavy up to 305 or 306... which doesn't even raise my overall light level a single notch. I'm better off using the raid weapon that drops (rather than infusing it) and living with the fact that aside from light level, it's nowhere near as good as the other weapons in my collection.

What this means is that I find myself getting some really cool looking weapons and armor through drops or arms day packages, but I scrap them because infusing them up to usable level is just too massive an investment in time and materials. I've reached the point where I buy arms day packages purely as a way to farm legendary marks and weapon parts, since I'm always short on both.

I can't imagine that this is the play-loop Bungie had in mind when they designed the end game. Again, this is only an issue for players who focus on the absolute top-level activities (280 gear is fine for 95% of the content in the game). But I can't help thinking there has got to be a better way for end-game players to raise their light level AND continue using gear they enjoy that doesn't involve weeks or months of waiting for tiny incremental increases. After all, isn't that exactly what Bungie has said they wanted to avoid this time around?

Anyone else finding themselves in a similar loop? Just me?

I avoid it by not caring about Trials or hard mode raiding. It does sound like a legitimate and frustrating (if 1%) problem though. Maybe Etheric Light or some such thing should be a very top tier reward that instantly pushes items above 300 to whatever the max Light Level is?

Remember, the new expansion removed the grinding activities, and Bungie designed it so we could try out our new weapons and have multiple viable options, not just rely on a few powerful weapons dropped from the raid.

I'm sorry, but your scenario is actually impossible.

I avoid it by not caring about Trials or hard mode raiding. It does sound like a legitimate and frustrating (if 1%) problem though.

Yeah, it feels like a "Destiny year 1" kind of problem to me: I have a blast with my absolute favorite activities, but getting to those activities is a major headache.

Maybe Etheric Light or some such thing should be a very top tier reward that instantly pushes items above 300 to whatever the max Light Level is?

That's an interesting idea. Some other suggestions I've heard include changing infusion so that you get 100% of the value of the infused gear, rather than an 80% gain. Also raising the frequency and/or minimum light level of raid & trials drops.

Remember, the new expansion removed the grinding activities, and Bungie designed it so we could try out our new weapons and have multiple viable options, not just rely on a few powerful weapons dropped from the raid.

I'm sorry, but your scenario is actually impossible.

*insert Fry from futirama sceptical squinty-face meme*

Remember, the new expansion removed the grinding activities, and Bungie designed it so we could try out our new weapons and have multiple viable options, not just rely on a few powerful weapons dropped from the raid.

I'm sorry, but your scenario is actually impossible.

**

I got you covered

Right? At least now you don't have to pray to RNG in order to be an acceptable level for Hard Mode raid boss like at launch.

Not from the start, mind you, but I've consistently struggled with not having the time or resources to upgrade all the weapons I'd like to.

Then there's the issue of starting to upgrade, and then a better drop comes along. This is one reason I wish all exotics still had standard perks.

I can push myself to 308 I think if I use just the right combination of things.

I bet I can count on 1 hand the number of items I've gotten from the raid (outside of ghosts) that are > 305 light. Nah, that's drastic, but let me spell it out. According to destinytracker.com I've completed kings fall 8 times with my warlock, 1 time with my titan. Seems about right.

Note that If it weren't for 3 of coins I'd be sunk, and I've never farmed with 3oC, just tried to keep the buff up when I'm doing things.

3 chest pieces, 309, 306 and 304.
2 boots, 300 and 304.
2 gauntlets, 302, 307.
3 helms, 302, 302, 304.

1 raid HC, 306.
2 raid pulse rifles, 304 & 302.
4 raid shotguns, 310, 300, 302, 307.
2 raid snipers, 304, 307.
2 raid HMG's, 300, 302.
2 raid rocket launchers, 300, 304.
7 raid fusion rifles. 310 and 307 are notable, the rest < 305.
5 ghosts, 300, 303, 306, 307, 309
No raid scout rifle. Boo!

Combined with my quested 310 artifact this gets me to a solid 307, 308 if I juggle exotic 310s just right. I cross-infused a bunch of these where I could to get the most benefit.

hardest slots to progress seem to be helms, boots and heavy weapons. Really looking forward to that 310 exotic sword for this reason.

I remember us doing partial runs of Hard Mode Crota for weeks just to get enough gear to try to beat the final encounter on all 3 characters! That doesn't happen now.

The other option is using Three of Coins. When you're under 311 the chances aren't great for 310 exotics, but when they drop you can infuse the gear you like to get above 300 and closer to 310.

Yes, and actually it doesn't JUST exist for the absolute top-level stuff. It also exists for any light-level requirement that a person is trying to reach. I've been having the same issue myself trying to get above 290. There simply isn't enough stuff dropping that's high enough to make progress with. Almost everything I see is 280 or lower.

Compounding this is the way decoding engrams works. Because I want to keep my highest-light items available to equip when decoding, I'll only use something to infuse when I have more than one high-light item available for that slot. So, for example, if all my legendary gloves are around 280-285, and I get a blue glove that drops at 295, I am NOT going to use that blue to infuse. Instead, I'm going to keep it around for use when decoding. I'll only get to infuse those legendary gloves once I get a second high-light blue to drop.

Yeah, I hated getting those boots after finally beating the bridge just to find out that they were only level 30. Brutal.

Good thing they fixed that.

the TTK economy was built to slow down Year 1 people that have amassed huge amounts of materials and various currencies. Someone starting from scratch (I'm talking about brand new to destiny, not creating a alt and having access to a shared inventory) is going to have a major uphill battle.

They have no weapons/armor parts

They have no exotic shards to level up or infuse the exotics that drop.

Bounties are worth less EXP/Rep (although easier to complete)

Takes longer to level up factions/vanguard, and you don't get reward packages until after rank 3.

They don't have a stash of motes of light to boost gear/faction

they don't have ascendant materials to trade for motes

they don't have legendary marks, and will take some time to get prepared for the activities that grant them

Ranking up queen's rep to get the Taken War: Petra quest will take months with the current state of the weekly bounties

I remember us doing partial runs of Hard Mode Crota for weeks just to get enough gear to try to beat the final encounter on all 3 characters! That doesn't happen now.

Slycrel, dog cow and I are literally in that exact scenario. We're nowhere close to being levelled high enough to beat hard-mode Oryx, so we're planning a bunch of partial hard-mode runs with the hope of getting enough drops to bring us up to final-boss level.

the TTK economy was built to slow down Year 1 people that have amassed huge amounts of materials and various currencies. Someone starting from scratch (I'm talking about brand new to destiny, not creating a alt and having access to a shared inventory) is going to have a major uphill battle.

They have no weapons/armor parts

They have no exotic shards to level up or infuse the exotics that drop.

Bounties are worth less EXP/Rep (although easier to complete)

Takes longer to level up factions/vanguard, and you don't get reward packages until after rank 3.

They don't have a stash of motes of light to boost gear/faction

they don't have ascendant materials to trade for motes

they don't have legendary marks, and will take some time to get prepared for the activities that grant them

Ranking up queen's rep to get the Taken War: Petra quest will take months with the current state of the weekly bounties

Normally I would agree with you, except I have a buddy that just recently started after TTK and has a higher light level than me. And he only has one character. And now he hasn't put more hours in than me. Maybe more hours in TTK than me but not overall. That alone speaks to the fact that TTK is easier to level in.

Anyone else finding themselves in a similar loop? Just me?

No, it's not just you. I don't play nearly as much, and I remember joking about how I was a higher light level than you somehow. Which is strange because I certainly don't FEEL like I'm getting lucky drops.

First of all, the majority of the infusion I have done is infusing exotics into other items, and infusing raid gear into other items. It was weird at first, since I'm used to holding on to raid weapons and exotics, but it became clear that guns are supposed to be disposable in this game. So while you have tons of options, you kind of have to pick one and stick with it, which kind of negates having options does it not?

So how do we fix this mess? Simple:

You could restructure the way infusion works. Here is what I would do. You can either infuse for free, or use resources. Using resources gets you 100% of the light, and doing it for free gets you 80% or whatever the current amount is. Congrats to me, I've also just alleviated the weapon part shortage as well. It's absurd that you need THREE to FOUR 320 weapons to bring a 280 weapon up to 320.

This isn't all that you'd need though since you still have to get that higher drop to begin with. You simply need to add a way to add light to any given weapon. Perhaps via motes of light. 10 motes raises the light value by 1. There. I'm a fucking genius.

Now you've got a much better system.

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Sarcasm hasn't been smuggled into Canada yet.

I'm sorry.

Ha, sorry about that. I only got 2 hours of sleep last night, so I guess my sarcasm detector isn't functioning ;)

Most of my infusion, like Cody mentioned, are 310 exotics. But I RARELY infuse if I am going to lose any attack/defense from the transfer. Another thing I have started doing, since I am max marks alot of the time and my materials are fine, is infusing lower level things around 280ish. Basically if I get 280 ish legendary, regardless of the roll (obviously I may use the good ones) I infuse it with other useless gear. I have several 295+ pieces, waiting to be infused higher. I call it my infusion bank. Eventually, I will start getting useless 305 peices, but dont want to lose anything. So I will infuse one of my infusion bank pieces to bring it up before throwing my higher level on there. This sounds rather common sense, but I don't think alot of people are doing it. Essentially don't throw away anything over 290, infuse it. save it. You will eventually need it.

Most of my infusion, like Cody mentioned, are 310 exotics. But I RARELY infuse if I am going to lose any attack/defense from the transfer. Another thing I have started doing, since I am max marks alot of the time and my materials are fine, is infusing lower level things around 280ish. Basically if I get 280 ish legendary, regardless of the roll (obviously I may use the good ones) I infuse it with other useless gear. I have several 295+ pieces, waiting to be infused higher. I call it my infusion bank. Eventually, I will start getting useless 305 peices, but dont want to lose anything. So I will infuse one of my infusion bank pieces to bring it up before throwing my higher level on there. This sounds rather common sense, but I don't think alot of people are doing it. Essentially don't throw away anything over 290, infuse it. save it. You will eventually need it.

This is great advice, but it kinda requires having a bunch of weapons above 290 that you don't need. I've only got 5 primaries above 295, and those are the ones I use all the time.

It felt like everyone in HoW was 34 which made the levels nearly pointless in the competitive PvP modes. I think it's cool how we have a variety of levels even though they make only minor differences. That minor difference may be enough to save your life though. It is tricky how most of the high light gear is only obtained through the toughest content, but that makes sense doesn't it? I can see how the RNG nature of it can be frustrating for the truly hardcore. You may put in more time than some of your other friends, but still not be able to surpass them in Light.

I like that if I get a crappy gun that I would normally shard, I can get some use out of it if it does have a higher light than my current gun. I know in some cases, we feel the need to use the higher light gear because of the 80% infusion rate, but I think the only thing in the game that really requires max light is the Hard Mode Oryx battle.

I will say that I do play with fewer guns and armor pieces though. I have 2 primaries I run consistently, Hung Jury and Nirwens. They are my highest light, but are also outstanding guns. There is something about the TTK system that has really made me focus on building a great setup, rather than being experimental and keeping lots of viable options around. I guess I am getting funneled into a set. Huh, never really thought of it that way. I like it though because it has allowed me to build a great No Backup Plans roll for my Defender that works great in both PvE and PvP.

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Just had one of those restless nights were I couldn't fall asleep, and I when I did I didn't stay asleep. Then my daughter woke up an hour early because apparently nobody told her about daylight savings time lol

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The last few Raid runs I've been in have been fairly unspectacular.

The randomized light level loot drop system isn't a bad one. I was able to get some good weapons going and hang on to them in leu of vendor drops. And once I was able to afford vendor gear, I wasn't required to switch over completely. I was able to form a bond with my favorite gear and be able to carry gear as long as I wanted.

The problem is using that system in the Raid itself.

Because its the goddamned Raid. Nevermind the once-a-week per character thing, its a serious investment in order to get a group together and commit for that period of time and intensity. It ought to give rewards proportional to that.

So like i said last night, we now got two problems with the raid loot system:

1) We have to be lucky enough to get the gear we want. RNG doesn't seem to be as bad as year one in that account, but I can't make that an empirical statement, obviously. I've gotten a copy of all the titan armor pieces, but I really need more guns.

2) We have to be lucky enough to get it at a light level that we can use. The last few times, I've gotten pieces I can't even use in infusions anymore they're so low. At best, I can keep them around in case I find some lower light gear with okay perks later.

A solution, or part of a solution, I feel ought to simply raise the light level of all raid specific drops to 310.

I could make an argument for raising the chance for ghost shells and class items to drop as well. Especially since we have no exotic engrams we can infuse from like with weapons and armor.

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Yeah. i've been MIA for most of TTK and I still feel like my light level is only 1-6 points lower than all of you. That's pretty absurd.

Though, I will say you guys seem to have more variety in how to stay at that level as soon as I change even one piece i'm down to the 290s and even less if I change 2. It's really forcing me to play with the same gear that I really don't like that much.

Anyway, it sure seems like there is a soft cap around 305. Personally, I think they should make it so you can infuse lower level items to raise the level of something to a hard coded max light level. It should take WAY more than using a higher level thing, but I think it would help immensely if I could scrap 20 trash 280+ level decodes to raise a 290ish thing 2-3 points.

Or hell, just to serve the cruel streak in Bungie, make it require 10 legendary engrams (of any gear type - I'm not insane) to raise 1 light level. You can't use this unless you play a LOT, so it's still slowing people down a bit, and you give up a lot of chances for new gear that might be higher level, but you get in trade a certainty and guaranteed reward for effort.

What this means is that I find myself getting some really cool looking weapons and armor through drops or arms day packages, but I scrap them because infusing them up to usable level is just too massive an investment in time and materials. I've reached the point where I buy arms day packages purely as a way to farm legendary marks and weapon parts, since I'm always short on both.

I can't imagine that this is the play-loop Bungie had in mind when they designed the end game.

I think they play loop Bungie had in mind was you scrapping weapons that you might think are cool in order to save only the ones you KNOW are cool. I think Bungie wants variety. I think Bungie is against weapons that are so OP that everyone has to have them (like Gjallarhorn became) not because they make the game too easy but because they make it monotonous when everyone has the same weapons.

What this means is that I find myself getting some really cool looking weapons and armor through drops or arms day packages, but I scrap them because infusing them up to usable level is just too massive an investment in time and materials. I've reached the point where I buy arms day packages purely as a way to farm legendary marks and weapon parts, since I'm always short on both.

I can't imagine that this is the play-loop Bungie had in mind when they designed the end game.

I think they play loop Bungie had in mind was you scrapping weapons that you might think are cool in order to save only the ones you KNOW are cool. I think Bungie wants variety.

But isn't that a direct contradiction? I'm scrapping interesting looking weapons (variety) in favor of pumping resources into my Hung Jury (Fatebringer 2.0?). If the desire was to encourage greater weapon variety, wouldn't that involve a system where I order arms day weapons and actually keep/use them instead of scrapping them instantly?

I think Bungie is against weapons that are so OP that everyone has to have them (like Gjallarhorn became) not because they make the game too easy but because they make it monotonous when everyone has the same weapons.

I agree with this completely, but I'm not sure how minimizing our ability to upgrade gear to endgame levels accomplishes that.

What this means is that I find myself getting some really cool looking weapons and armor through drops or arms day packages, but I scrap them because infusing them up to usable level is just too massive an investment in time and materials. I've reached the point where I buy arms day packages purely as a way to farm legendary marks and weapon parts, since I'm always short on both.

I can't imagine that this is the play-loop Bungie had in mind when they designed the end game.

I think they play loop Bungie had in mind was you scrapping weapons that you might think are cool in order to save only the ones you KNOW are cool. I think Bungie wants variety. I think Bungie is against weapons that are so OP that everyone has to have them (like Gjallarhorn became) not because they make the game too easy but because they make it monotonous when everyone has the same weapons.

What other people have makes it no less monotonous for me when I can afford to use only the same few weapons.

What this means is that I find myself getting some really cool looking weapons and armor through drops or arms day packages, but I scrap them because infusing them up to usable level is just too massive an investment in time and materials. I've reached the point where I buy arms day packages purely as a way to farm legendary marks and weapon parts, since I'm always short on both.

I can't imagine that this is the play-loop Bungie had in mind when they designed the end game.

I think they play loop Bungie had in mind was you scrapping weapons that you might think are cool in order to save only the ones you KNOW are cool. I think Bungie wants variety. I think Bungie is against weapons that are so OP that everyone has to have them (like Gjallarhorn became) not because they make the game too easy but because they make it monotonous when everyone has the same weapons.

And this is the direct opposite of what you just said. Right now, I'm going to pick a weapon I KNOW is good and keep using it, because it's so hard to level up your guns, that experimentation is difficult. Want to try a gun in high level content in HoW? Slap some etheric light on it and have a go. In TTK? Keep Raiding until you get enough drops to infuse it! And since your light level can go down when using weaker guns, you are fucked if it drops you below a threshold where your effectiveness drops.

Tying your level even more tightly to gear is not the way to increase variety.

Preface: I have not done the raid, nor have I done an Antiquated Rune in the Court (I hear that's a good way to get high level artifacts?). I'm probably as "filthy casual" as they get, but I have the pleasure of surrounding myself with a great group of DBOers who enjoy the game as much as I do and don't mine sherpa-ing me along.

Yet even though I'm at the opposite end of the player spectrum as you, I have a similar feeling: when I decode engrams, they are rarely anything I can use to infuse. Very, very rarely. Even exotic engrams are a letdown because they automatically become my weakest item in their particular slot. If I want to infuse them, I have to delete something I actually use and value (having only a limited time to upgrade) - only to wind up with an exotic that is STILL less than the weapon I used to infuse it (due to the law of averaging).

As a result, I'm Forever 29x.

It's disappointing to feel like all my engrams are worthless. That said, 29x works for me at this point. The only reason I'd like to hit 300 is so my exotics will decode into something work using (or using to infuse) - and not be a burden to everyone I play with!

Because to get your other gear up to 310, you need lots and lots and lots of exotics to drop at 310 for you to infuse into your other gear. My current play loop is 1 pvp match, 1 gatelord, repeat ad nauseum.

What this means is that I find myself getting some really cool looking weapons and armor through drops or arms day packages, but I scrap them because infusing them up to usable level is just too massive an investment in time and materials. I've reached the point where I buy arms day packages purely as a way to farm legendary marks and weapon parts, since I'm always short on both.

I can't imagine that this is the play-loop Bungie had in mind when they designed the end game.

I think they play loop Bungie had in mind was you scrapping weapons that you might think are cool in order to save only the ones you KNOW are cool. I think Bungie wants variety.

But isn't that a direct contradiction? I'm scrapping interesting looking weapons (variety) in favor of pumping resources into my Hung Jury (Fatebringer 2.0?). If the desire was to encourage greater weapon variety, wouldn't that involve a system where I order arms day weapons and actually keep/use them instead of scrapping them instantly?

I think what Bungie is struggling with is a social problem rather than a technical one. They are looking for a technical solution, but there may not be one.

The question is-- why are you upgrading the Hung Jury if these other guns are interesting?

I think what Bungie wants is enough weapon parity, or the appearance of it, so that everyone is not just keeping and upgrading the same weapons.

The problem is that social network effects are getting in the way. Even if, say, Hung Jury isn't the new Fatebringer, or Sleeper Simulant isn't the new Gjallarhorn, all that needs to happen is for enough people to think this is true (even if they also believe the new versions are worse!) and the same behavior repeats itself.

I think Bungie is against weapons that are so OP that everyone has to have them (like Gjallarhorn became) not because they make the game too easy but because they make it monotonous when everyone has the same weapons.

I agree with this completely, but I'm not sure how minimizing our ability to upgrade gear to endgame levels accomplishes that.

I think they are hoping that the weapon pool is diverse enough, and there is enough parity, that when people are pushed to choose one weapon over another, not everyone will make the same choice, leading to greater variety in the field and amongst fireteam members.

All these cool new weapons that get sharded for parts and marks just so I can update a handful of high light weapons that I need to raid, while weapons I enjoy using get stuck on the back burner.

Plus the raid gives you mouldering shards instead of drops so many times. When you do get drops, it's your 5th 300 fusion rifle or cape, never the next armor piece you need to advance your light.

I've been stuck at <310 light for a while now just due to zero helmet drops and weapons that drop at 300 light.

And sefinitely something I would have done at one point. I kind of find myself just demoralised by it though. I've done my Hard Raid, I've gone to the Lighthouse and got my mediocre reward. All that's left is the perpetual gear grind. I like the variety this expansion brings in theory, but it comes at the cost of even more grind.

It feels like instead of Using my Fatebringer 'cause it's awesome and I enjoy it, I'm using my Anguish of Drystan - which I hate - because it's the strongest. Same lack of variety, but I'm enjoying it less.

The question is-- why are you upgrading the Hung Jury if these other guns are interesting?

Because you have to have 300+ weapons for end game activities, and every little bit helps, and weapon parts are at a premium. So you face the choice between making the weapon you love and know is good (and fun!) better, or potentially wasting very precious resources into a low light weapon that COULD be good, but might not be.

I think they are hoping that the weapon pool is diverse enough, and there is enough parity, that when people are pushed to choose one weapon over another, not everyone will make the same choice, leading to greater variety in the field and amongst fireteam members.

I feel like that is probably true, but it's very easy to get shoehorned in to using a single weapon just because of the sheer cost of upgrading weapons. If you already have a relatively high level weapon, it often makes sense to just keep using that one.

I don't think it's a problem for most people, as 280 weapons are more than enough for almost every activity, barring Trials and the Hard Mode Raid, so if you want to upgrade a vendor bought weapon or a fun looking dropped weapon, you can just switch to it and run strikes for upgrade fuel.

The problem Cruel seems to be having is that the activities he likes require the highest level weapons, and don't drop enough crap for dismantling like Strikes do. It's a real problem, I think, because you shouldn't be FORCED to run strikes in order to upgrade things, but it's one of the few options available. Just raiding by itself definitely isn't going to give you enough to upgrade anything.

And sefinitely something I would have done at one point. I kind of find myself just demoralised by it though. I've done my Hard Raid, I've gone to the Lighthouse and got my mediocre reward. All that's left is the perpetual gear grind. I like the variety this expansion brings in theory, but it comes at the cost of even more grind.

It seemed so promising at the beginning, but it's worse now than it ever was in Year 1 in that regard. I'm not a super high level player, so it doesn't affect me as much. I hover around 299 to 302 depending on loadout, and that's enough to do everything I want to, so switching to a few 280 weapons doesn't bring me down enough to matter, but even so it's a little disheartening.

I am very thankful for Halo 5 (and Divinity Original Sin which is amazing!) and possibly Fallout 4 or Tomb Raider if I feel like adding something else to the list. They've given me a good reason to take a break from Destiny, and it's great.

I'm pretty sure Destiny will remain on the shelf for a bit for me. I've done the things I want to do. I'm sure I'll jump in for the occasional raid or just run some strikes every now then, but I'm definitely done playing relentlessly to upgrade gear or grind out an exotic sword or whatever.

Anyone who plays with me will tell you I'm a bit of a Destiny addict. I play far too much. But I havent played since Sunday now - there's just no reason to log in.

And it's been great! I finished Tales from the Borderlands (best Borderlands game by a long shot. Get it), played some Magicka 2 (fun in small doses, but its no Helldivers), tinkered with Dragon Fin Soup (meh), caught up on some TV, rekindled my love for Mercenary Kings and had a great evening out with my long-suffering SO. I'll probably grab my Armsday stuff today, and grab my reset gift from Variks, but I'm quite enjoying my little Destiny break.

What this means is that I find myself getting some really cool looking weapons and armor through drops or arms day packages, but I scrap them because infusing them up to usable level is just too massive an investment in time and materials. I've reached the point where I buy arms day packages purely as a way to farm legendary marks and weapon parts, since I'm always short on both.

I can't imagine that this is the play-loop Bungie had in mind when they designed the end game.

I think they play loop Bungie had in mind was you scrapping weapons that you might think are cool in order to save only the ones you KNOW are cool. I think Bungie wants variety.

But isn't that a direct contradiction? I'm scrapping interesting looking weapons (variety) in favor of pumping resources into my Hung Jury (Fatebringer 2.0?). If the desire was to encourage greater weapon variety, wouldn't that involve a system where I order arms day weapons and actually keep/use them instead of scrapping them instantly?

I think what Bungie is struggling with is a social problem rather than a technical one. They are looking for a technical solution, but there may not be one.

The question is-- why are you upgrading the Hung Jury if these other guns are interesting?

Because I need to upgrade something in order to do the activities that I enjoy. So I picked my favorite primary (not based on popular opinion... after trying many weapons in the early days of TTK I quickly came to favor Hung Jury). I got a couple high level primaries from the raid, but didn't like them nearly as much. So in order to play the content I enjoy, I need to either stick with the raid weapons that I don't like purely because of their light level, or sacrifice 2 or 3 into infusing my Hung Jury up in level. I chose the latter because I'd rather use a weapon I enjoy, but the process of leveling it up to 307 has taken 6 or 7 raids over several weeks. It is such a tedious process that the idea of leveling up any other primaries is simply not appealing. So instead of weapon variety, I'm confined to using the 1 primary I've invested in.

I think Bungie is against weapons that are so OP that everyone has to have them (like Gjallarhorn became) not because they make the game too easy but because they make it monotonous when everyone has the same weapons.

I agree with this completely, but I'm not sure how minimizing our ability to upgrade gear to endgame levels accomplishes that.

I think they are hoping that the weapon pool is diverse enough, and there is enough parity, that when people are pushed to choose one weapon over another, not everyone will make the same choice, leading to greater variety in the field and amongst fireteam members.

But what I'm saying is that parity is an extreme chore at the high levels, because bringing just 1 primary up to 310+ is such a huge undertaking. I have a diverse weapon pool down in the 280s and 290s, but I can't use any of those weapons for my favorite activities; namely Trials and the Raid (especially hard mode). So I look at my inventory and see all this gear that I can't use, then I get new gear that looks really interesting but it's level 275 or something like that and I just say to myself "It will be months before I can level this up to the point where it is useful to me, I'm better off just scrapping it for parts". And that sucks, IMO.

All these cool new weapons that get sharded for parts and marks just so I can update a handful of high light weapons that I need to raid, while weapons I enjoy using get stuck on the back burner.

Plus the raid gives you mouldering shards instead of drops so many times. When you do get drops, it's your 5th 300 fusion rifle or cape, never the next armor piece you need to advance your light.

I've been stuck at <310 light for a while now just due to zero helmet drops and weapons that drop at 300 light.

You just summed up my experience in far fewer words than I could :)

I think they are hoping that the weapon pool is diverse enough, and there is enough parity, that when people are pushed to choose one weapon over another, not everyone will make the same choice, leading to greater variety in the field and amongst fireteam members.

I'll say it again a different way: how does greater variety in the field and amongst fireteam members give ME greater variety, if I still feel obliged to use the same few weapons to even participate in the field.

I really don't get why they haven't made it so that the initial light level on new drops (almost always being 1-10 points higher than you equipped gear) persists past 290. Heck, even armsday weapons should appear at or above your current light level instead of at 280. The grind for me now consists of 20 minute sessions of "mote of light leveling" of crappy blue items I used to just dismantle purely because I may get an extra weapon part out of a few of them. My vault is flooded with 290+ items I could dismantle for more weapon parts, but don't dare touch because god forbid I get a good roll on a 260 light gun and need to infuse it 4 times to make it useful (bye bye, 40 weapon parts).

On top of that, I'm now farming the gatelord every chance I get because I need the 310s in order to infuse weapons to the point where they're remotely useful.

The grind is certainly real. It's less frustrating than the RNG grind was for me, but it's also much more of a chore, too.

The fact that Crucible drop rates suck doesn't help.

Preface: I have not done the raid, nor have I done an Antiquated Rune in the Court (I hear that's a good way to get high level artifacts?). I'm probably as "filthy casual" as they get, but I have the pleasure of surrounding myself with a great group of DBOers who enjoy the game as much as I do and don't mine sherpa-ing me along.

Yet even though I'm at the opposite end of the player spectrum as you, I have a similar feeling: when I decode engrams, they are rarely anything I can use to infuse. Very, very rarely. Even exotic engrams are a letdown because they automatically become my weakest item in their particular slot. If I want to infuse them, I have to delete something I actually use and value (having only a limited time to upgrade) - only to wind up with an exotic that is STILL less than the weapon I used to infuse it (due to the law of averaging).

As a result, I'm Forever 29x.

It's disappointing to feel like all my engrams are worthless. That said, 29x works for me at this point. The only reason I'd like to hit 300 is so my exotics will decode into something work using (or using to infuse) - and not be a burden to everyone I play with!

Pretty sure the only way to break 300 without running the raid or trials would be to get the 310 sword and all very nearly 300 gear elsewhere. Doable, but very unlikely.

I'd really recommend running the raid at least once. It's really well done (though the final fight is, imo, too unforgiving in some places). The gear you get from it will help you break 300, plus it's really fun.

I think this is a losing battle that Bungie will never win.

My suggestion to fix this would be to allow for weapons to get up to max before armor does. That way you actually do have more options when it comes to weapons.

But then that simply brings out the problem that armor doesn't work "as well as" weapons and people would complain about that.

And so on.

The linear curve is there because it gives people a reason to play. I think upgrades and incentive are great. But at the extreme end-game they become so important that it gets ridiculous.

As an example... Yesterday I did the court of oryx with some randoms. We easily 10 of the 3rd tier runes on mini-crota. There was a guy there that was light level 316, and his exotic sword was 314. He was able to down the mini-crota guy in ONE SWORD multiple times. True he was very good at the game, and he knew exactly what he was doing... but the power that his exotic sword gave him at that light level was insane. He could pretty much 3-shot the major holding the sword.

The problem is that there really is a lvl 29 vs lvl 30 difference between 300 and 320. And many of us find that we are sitting between 305-310, with literally no way to proceed other than the hard mode raid and lighthouse drops. The time investment for that is insane, and unfortunately, I think it's as designed.

Destiny is a MMO and this is how MMOs work. Sometimes it's easy to forget that. I wish that there was a larger balance at the end-game of "play, have fun, and get good rewards". But it seems, by design, that the rewards become the end game. And those rewards are, by design, time-gated, mediocre and RNG.

I think there is room for getting "capped" and then using what you've got in interesting ways once at the cap. But the cap itself is a carrot that bungie is putting out there right now, rather than a realistic obtainable goal for the vast majority of players. (basically wah, there is no closure. ;) )

The grind is certainly real. It's less frustrating than the RNG grind was for me, but it's also much more of a chore, too.

It's as if they don't trust their own solutions and don't actually believe what they are saying.

Before TTK released, Luke said multiple times that the forever 29 meme was heartbreaking and they wouldn't let that happen again. They said that not being able to progress because you don't get boot drops from the vault was terrible and they'd change that.

Yet here they, despite having fixed the grind in everything up to and including the normal mode raid, have a situation with TTKs end game that is WORSE than what was before. Not only do you need specific drops, but if you get them, they might be worthless because their light level is too low!

The system would have worked like gangbusters if:

1. Being a higher light level than an enemy in PvE conferred you an advantage. Right now it works the same way as it always has, and being overleveled does nothing. Raising my light level does not cause me to do more damage, unless the attack of my weapon goes up.

2. Hard Mode Oryx was the same light level as normal mode, just more challenging, as we were falsely led to believe it would be.

3. 310 was max light.

4. My infusion system were implemented.

Now we have a system where gaining points towards 310 does confer you small advantages, yet is wholly unnecessary. It would just be gravy for the raid and trials. We would have gotten a raid that was more or less a completely new experience forcing us to really change it up, as opposed to now where you just have to level up.

At the end game, you should always be progressing, albeit possibly slowly. You should never play the game and make no progress. If you could infuse motes into weapons and armor to increase your light, you might not get that raid drop, but at east you earned a few motes and are closer to being able to infuse that gun. I don't understand after years and years of analysis on these types of games that the very simple idea of the player always feeling like they've accomplished something wasn't at the heart of the design.

I think this is a losing battle that Bungie will never win.

My suggestion to fix this would be to allow for weapons to get up to max before armor does. That way you actually do have more options when it comes to weapons.

But then that simply brings out the problem that armor doesn't work "as well as" weapons and people would complain about that.

And so on.

The linear curve is there because it gives people a reason to play. I think upgrades and incentive are great. But at the extreme end-game they become so important that it gets ridiculous.

As an example... Yesterday I did the court of oryx with some randoms. We easily 10 of the 3rd tier runes on mini-crota. There was a guy there that was light level 316, and his exotic sword was 314. He was able to down the mini-crota guy in ONE SWORD multiple times. True he was very good at the game, and he knew exactly what he was doing... but the power that his exotic sword gave him at that light level was insane. He could pretty much 3-shot the major holding the sword.

The problem is that there really is a lvl 29 vs lvl 30 difference between 300 and 320. And many of us find that we are sitting between 305-310, with literally no way to proceed other than the hard mode raid and lighthouse drops. The time investment for that is insane, and unfortunately, I think it's as designed.

Destiny is a MMO and this is how MMOs work. Sometimes it's easy to forget that. I wish that there was a larger balance at the end-game of "play, have fun, and get good rewards". But it seems, by design, that the rewards become the end game. And those rewards are, by design, time-gated, mediocre and RNG.

I think there is room for getting "capped" and then using what you've got in interesting ways once at the cap. But the cap itself is a carrot that bungie is putting out there right now, rather than a realistic obtainable goal for the vast majority of players. (basically wah, there is no closure. ;) )

I think you're spot on in a lot of ways, but I still feel there are ways the situation could be improved. Without overhauling the entire economy, I feel like tweaking some of the existing gear would help out a bit. The primary reason I've resorted to infusing my Hung Jury and a few other weapons is that the Raid and Trials guns aren't particularly good or exciting. I'd be far more likely to keep and use raid & trials drops if they were as good as my other gear, but they just aren't. So instead I treat them as infusion fodder, which means I'm constantly sacrificing light levels here and there.

Now a lot of this does come down to personal preference, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that overall, the current batch of Raid and Trials weapons are the worst set of end-game rewards we've had in Destiny. They certainly aren't the lust-worthy trophies they should be, if you ask me.

There is also something fundamentally off about the way leveling is worked into the end game. In year 1, playing normal VOG a bunch of times prepared you for hard mode. In year 2, you need to play the some of the hard mode raid to get the gear required to finish the hard mode raid.

It just seems completely backwards to me. If the hard mode raid is all but impossible with a lower level than 310, then playing the normal raid should be enough to get you there. Yes, it is conceivably possible to hit 310 by playing the normal raid, but far less likely than hitting 30 by playing VoG normal. You would need a 310 drop in every single gear slot. How many of us have that kind of luck?

It just seems completely backwards to me. If the hard mode raid is all but impossible with a lower level than 310, then playing the normal raid should be enough to get you there. Yes, it is conceivably possible to hit 310 by playing the normal raid, but far less likely than hitting 30 by playing VoG normal. You would need a 310 drop in every single gear slot. How many of us have that kind of luck?

I don't think it's impossible; I have heard groups defeating Oryx with everybody under 310 light. They simply had to resort to interesting strategies. I don't know a ton about how they do it (I'd rather figure it out myself), but I do know that there is room to get creative.

Now a lot of this does come down to personal preference, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that overall, the current batch of Raid and Trials weapons are the worst set of end-game rewards we've had in Destiny. They certainly aren't the lust-worthy trophies they should be, if you ask me.

I think that's very intentional. They knew infusion is going to be important to getting that light level up, and they didn't want people to be afraid of dumping their high attack raid weapons into lower level weapons.

I definitely don't feel like I'm losing anything by dumping a 307 raid auto rifle into my Hung Jury, whereas there is no way in hell I would infuse a Fatebringer into anything unless I got really lucking and had a few of them.

I'll probably grab my Armsday stuff today, and grab my reset gift from Variks, but I'm quite enjoying my little Destiny break.

Heh, that's literally the only reason I've logged in since Halo 5 dropped. I grabbed my Armsday weapons and jumped back into Halo. I didn't even order Armsday weapons for this week. I'm sure I'll be back into full on Destiny mode again at some point, but right now it's really nice to feel like I've just done what I've wanted to do and put it down for a bit.

Now a lot of this does come down to personal preference, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that overall, the current batch of Raid and Trials weapons are the worst set of end-game rewards we've had in Destiny. They certainly aren't the lust-worthy trophies they should be, if you ask me.

I agree, but I also think guns in general aren't as fun/good as they were in year one.

Except swords, which I'm sure will be nerfed soon.

I think they are called a thesaurus :)

I think you're spot on in a lot of ways, but I still feel there are ways the situation could be improved. Without overhauling the entire economy, I feel like tweaking some of the existing gear would help out a bit. The primary reason I've resorted to infusing my Hung Jury and a few other weapons is that the Raid and Trials guns aren't particularly good or exciting. I'd be far more likely to keep and use raid & trials drops if they were as good as my other gear, but they just aren't. So instead I treat them as infusion fodder, which means I'm constantly sacrificing light levels here and there.

So, other than a mistake with my red death due to the differing infusion on exotics (going to 309 instead of 310 as expected), I have actually not lost any light levels due to infusion. I've been very cautious to use the highest light level I've attained until I can infuse up to that level with what I want. It's been a little tedious, but I've for the most part gotten there.

And I'm still 307. Notably my heavy is 304, boots are 304 and my class item is 302. My helm is 308 (thank you 3 of coins!) but all other slots can be 310. I can try to farm 3oC, but they won't help much in my boot or class item slots. (Hmm maybe I can farm for boots on my titan, get some 310 ones and infuse them for my warlock? Stoopid no exotic boots for warlocks thing...)

So I'm looking at exotic sword at 310 (silly for the raid, except for maybe golgoroth), a 3 of coins drop for my helm and boots, and dumb luck in the raid for my class item. Pretty much at the mercy of RNG at this point.

This won't change with hard mode, other than I'll progress from where I am up to 315ish (3-4 full hard mode runs) then repeat what we've been talking about up to 320.

Now a lot of this does come down to personal preference, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that overall, the current batch of Raid and Trials weapons are the worst set of end-game rewards we've had in Destiny. They certainly aren't the lust-worthy trophies they should be, if you ask me.

I agree re: trials adept weapons. They don't seem ideal and the shared perk isn't fantastic. (I love cocoon! Though it looked not great at first.)

However, most of the crota weapons were pretty lackluster. it was the VoG weapons that really shone, and I don't expect those to come back anytime soon, at least in that form.

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I'd really recommend running the raid at least once. It's really well done (though the final fight is, imo, too unforgiving in some places). The gear you get from it will help you break 300, plus it's really fun.

Yeah, so... the raid is actually a bottleneck for me.

I played with a group on the 360 that got all the way to Oryx, but we couldn't execute well enough to finish. We made one final push (it was going to be over two days, but I could only play the first day), we failed day one (got him to 25% once), I couldn't play day 2, they finished. At the same time, I finally migrated to the Xbox One (long story).

Most of the Xbox One raid parties I see are either full or running on days I can't play. So I don't have any way to get back into it - so at least 6 quests are actually frozen for me right now. (Plus all the other stuff that's dependent on running raids - ToM, for example).

::shrug:: I guess at some point my schedule will line up with other people's schedules (and a non-full fireteam will be available on that particular day), and I'll finish up... but for the past few weeks, it's been one disappointment after another.

Now a lot of this does come down to personal preference, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that overall, the current batch of Raid and Trials weapons are the worst set of end-game rewards we've had in Destiny. They certainly aren't the lust-worthy trophies they should be, if you ask me.

I think that's very intentional. They knew infusion is going to be important to getting that light level up, and they didn't want people to be afraid of dumping their high attack raid weapons into lower level weapons.

I definitely don't feel like I'm losing anything by dumping a 307 raid auto rifle into my Hung Jury, whereas there is no way in hell I would infuse a Fatebringer into anything unless I got really lucking and had a few of them.

I definitely lost some light by infusing: it took 3 raid primaries to get my Hung Jury up to 307. So I've sacrificed light level AND variety.

As far as the quality of the raid weapons, making the guns so underwhelming is a poor way to encourage infusing, IMO. If they'd made the raid guns inherently exciting, all of us raiders would have some cool new guns to use. Infusion-fodder would be the consolation prize. "I got my 3rd raid scout rifle, but that's cool because I can still use it for infusion".

Yeah, so... the raid is actually a bottleneck for me.

I played with a group on the 360 that got all the way to Oryx, but we couldn't execute well enough to finish. We made one final push (it was going to be over two days, but I could only play the first day), we failed day one (got him to 25% once), I couldn't play day 2, they finished. At the same time, I finally migrated to the Xbox One (long story).

Most of the Xbox One raid parties I see are either full or running on days I can't play. So I don't have any way to get back into it - so at least 6 quests are actually frozen for me right now. (Plus all the other stuff that's dependent on running raids - ToM, for example).

::shrug:: I guess at some point my schedule will line up with other people's schedules (and a non-full fireteam will be available on that particular day), and I'll finish up... but for the past few weeks, it's been one disappointment after another.

Yeah, that's the downside of having such a large, complex raid. It really is a beast of a commitment for 6 people to make it through, especially if some members of the group are still inexperienced with it. A group who has all the encounters down can burn through in 60-90 minutes, but if even 1 person is new to the raid it can easily stretch out to the 3 hour mark. That's a steep commitment for a group activity.

It just seems completely backwards to me. If the hard mode raid is all but impossible with a lower level than 310, then playing the normal raid should be enough to get you there. Yes, it is conceivably possible to hit 310 by playing the normal raid, but far less likely than hitting 30 by playing VoG normal. You would need a 310 drop in every single gear slot. How many of us have that kind of luck?

I don't think it's impossible; I have heard groups defeating Oryx with everybody under 310 light. They simply had to resort to interesting strategies. I don't know a ton about how they do it (I'd rather figure it out myself), but I do know that there is room to get creative.

That's encouraging to hear :)

Yeah, so... the raid is actually a bottleneck for me.

Most of the Xbox One raid parties I see are either full or running on days I can't play. So I don't have any way to get back into it - so at least 6 quests are actually frozen for me right now. (Plus all the other stuff that's dependent on running raids - ToM, for example).

::shrug:: I guess at some point my schedule will line up with other people's schedules (and a non-full fireteam will be available on that particular day), and I'll finish up... but for the past few weeks, it's been one disappointment after another.

Something I learned from my wife when we moved to a new city is that you gotta take the initiative to make friends in your neighborhood. To this day she's got many more friends in the area than I do, I just tag along like lame-o green salad with her awesome pizza. :)

The Destiny/DBO equivalent is to take the initiative and, 4-5 days ahead of time, schedule a FTB for a time that works for you. If you build it, they will (probably) come.

Something I learned from my wife when we moved to a new city is that you gotta take the initiative to make friends in your neighborhood. To this day she's got many more friends in the area than I do, I just tag along like lame-o green salad with her awesome pizza. :)

My wife (who moved here when she was 14) has way more friends than I do and I've lived here my whole damn life :p

Something I learned from my wife when we moved to a new city is that you gotta take the initiative to make friends in your neighborhood. To this day she's got many more friends in the area than I do, I just tag along like lame-o green salad with her awesome pizza. :)

My wife (who moved here when she was 14) has way more friends than I do and I've lived here my whole damn life :p

My wife shares her friends with me. No, that doesn't sound horrible.

I don't think it's impossible; I have heard groups defeating Oryx with everybody under 310 light. They simply had to resort to interesting strategies. I don't know a ton about how they do it (I'd rather figure it out myself), but I do know that there is room to get creative.

Everything up to Oryx on Heroic can be done by a fireteam between 300 and 310, but the Oryx fight has 320 enemies and I'd say that 306 is an absolute minimum, with things getting markedly better over 310.

This is the Oryx strategy the XBox One Wednesday raiders are refining for the Oryx kill (a spoiler if you don't want to know strategies):
http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=97528

Start your own event :-)

Something I learned from my wife when we moved to a new city is that you gotta take the initiative to make friends in your neighborhood. To this day she's got many more friends in the area than I do, I just tag along like lame-o green salad with her awesome pizza. :)

The Destiny/DBO equivalent is to take the initiative and, 4-5 days ahead of time, schedule a FTB for a time that works for you. If you build it, they will (probably) come.

Absolutely - this is the best way.

Except... I usually don't know if I'm available for this stuff until an hour or two before I'm available. Which means jumping into non-full existing groups... or skipping it altogether.

One of these days. :)

Yeah, that's the downside of having such a large, complex raid. It really is a beast of a commitment for 6 people to make it through, especially if some members of the group [MARMOT] are still inexperienced with it. A group who has all the encounters down can burn through in 60-90 minutes, but if even 1 person [MARMOT] is new to the raid it can easily stretch out to the 3 hour mark. That's a steep commitment for a group activity.

Yeah I get it man! Those freakin' wall jumps...

Of the nearly 10 times I've played the new raid, I think I've only run with the same group of 6 people twice. Almost every week we have a new guy, don't sweat it. =)

Now, if on your 3rd or 4th run that's still happening we might give you a hard time about it. :D

Except... I usually don't know if I'm available for this stuff until an hour or two before I'm available. Which means jumping into non-full existing groups... or skipping it altogether.

One of these days. :)

Yeah, that can be difficult. :(

Yeah, that's the downside of having such a large, complex raid. It really is a beast of a commitment for 6 people to make it through, especially if some members of the group [MARMOT] are still inexperienced with it. A group who has all the encounters down can burn through in 60-90 minutes, but if even 1 person [MARMOT] is new to the raid it can easily stretch out to the 3 hour mark. That's a steep commitment for a group activity.

Yeah I get it man! Those freakin' wall jumps...

Lol! I wasn't actually directing this comment towards you at all :)

We've all been there. I got totally hung up on the first jumping puzzle a couple weeks ago; the rest of the team had to sit and watch me for like 15 minutes. It's all part of the fun :)

All I was saying is that this raid is a bigger time commitment than the previous 2.

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As far as the quality of the raid weapons, making the guns so underwhelming is a poor way to encourage infusing, IMO. If they'd made the raid guns inherently exciting, all of us raiders would have some cool new guns to use. Infusion-fodder would be the consolation prize. "I got my 3rd raid scout rifle, but that's cool because I can still use it for infusion".

Oh, I don't disagree with that at all, but I feel like they wanted to make sure people weren't unwilling to infuse raid gear. They just took it too far.

I do like that all of the Raid weapons have Cocoon, and it would make the Raid a neat experience to roll with all Cocoon weapons and never reload, just switch between primary and secondary as needed. But that one perk isn't good enough to make the weapons actually good or fun to use, so I'll never have that experience.

It was a neat concept and thought, though.

Most of the Xbox One raid parties I see are either full or running on days I can't play.

Hmm. Meet too. So are you switching to PS4 or do I need to buy the expansion to XBONE?

Most of the Xbox One raid parties I see are either full or running on days I can't play.

Hmm. Meet too. So are you switching to PS4 or do I need to buy the expansion to XBONE?

Heh. The problem with switching is building up my character(s). (Yes, I know Korny did it in 2 weeks. Korny also plays a LOT more than me - and more efficiently than I do.)

My friends list on Xbone is actually extensive; you'd think it would be EASY to get a group together. Reality, though, has proven to be... somewhat different than I expected.

The Destiny/DBO equivalent is to take the initiative and, 4-5 days ahead of time, schedule a FTB for a time that works for you. If you build it, they will (probably) come.

Well, or just Guardian513. P)

I was kidding. (And I have a lvl 34 on Xbox so obviously I should be the one to switch over.)

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Aww man, if you were on PS4 I'd offer to bring you with my group :(

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Seriously though, don't feel like you must beat Oryx to get enough raid gear to level to 300. Qullim's Terminus from Warpriest and the armor drops from Gologoroth are probably the best raid drops. Ghost shell is also a must have, but that can drop from literally every encounter or chest.

Is teaching the new guy how to jump.

I'm seriously shocked at how many people I've run the raid with who don't believe their class can physically complete the jumping puzzles simply because they have no idea whatsoever how to jump.

Please, learn how to jump everyone. It will improve your enjoyment of the game and increase your raid speeds.

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you guys running a raid anytime soon?

Aww man, if you were on PS4 I'd offer to bring you with my group :(

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Seriously though, don't feel like you must beat Oryx to get enough raid gear to level to 300. Qullim's Terminus from Warpriest and the armor drops from Gologoroth are probably the best raid drops. Ghost shell is also a must have, but that can drop from literally every encounter or chest.

I got QT from Warpriest and a Ghost shell (also from WP) - never gotten any armor. (Warpriest I've done almost half a dozen times - Golgoroth, only once. Daughters twice, Oryx never.)

It's not really about the drops - it's about finishing up the raid. Both Old Hunger and Road to Kings Fall require an Oryx kill - and I have both of those quests on three separate characters.

Shut your mouth. ;) Red rover red rover, send Claude on over.

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Give Rellekh and I a few weeks and we'll be on again organizing raids. We may even do them on the XBONE going into the future.

Iconic and I had a conversation about doing a 360 on the XBONE raid. Just for old time's sake.

As an occasional guest on the 360 raids, I'm all for raiding with that crew again.

Regarding the Xbone raids.

I'm all for more people converting to the XBone. Give in to the awesomeness of more than 7 people on the 360!