Trials 2.0 is nearly perfect.

I'm really loving the subtle changes to the matchmaking in new trials. Earlier rounds feel much more relaxed and fitting of a tournament style play. Most of the games in general feel more competitive. Fewer blowouts and more 5-4, 5-3 matches. When you get to that 6th win though, things really get tougher. You can feel that the stakes are higher, the tension is rising, and your competition is much better organized than the noobs you swatted in game 1 :).

I also think the new weapon balance for 2.0 has affected this as well. The harsh metagame of Thorn at every turn has now disappeared, and most fights feel more varied and down to true gun skills. While pulse rifles seem to be king, the other primary classes are equally viable. Depending on your playstyle and map, you may have better success with a HC or Scout or even an autorifle. I think PR's have the best all around fit and that is why we see them more. Ar's and HC's are really only good up close, Scouts obviously at range. PR's do well in many situations and can be paired with either a shotty or sniper. Regardless of what you choose, if you put yourself in your weapons best role, you can easily come out on top.

The only weapon that really feels lost, is the fusion rifle. In the right hands, they can be deadly, no doubt. But in trials, you mostly need that quick response you only get from the other specials. As much as I hated them in Vanilla Destiny, I'd love to see them back in the mix.

The bounty system is wonderful and easy. Play 10 games and you'll generally get all of them. Rewards are usually pretty decent too. I think I nabbed 3 or 4 items tonight of 300+ light. Some you have to get from wins, but still a good haul for a reasonable amount of play time. I will say that the lighthouse rewards are pretty blah. Same gun as the regular reward, but with 310+ light. I don't think elementals should be included because I personally prefer having to use specials and heavy for elemental damage. But they could offer some perks that are unique or highly preferred to other PvP weapons. Raid weapons come with some cool perks like Cocoon and they do extra damage to Taken. Perhaps they could have a 4th perk slot.

Lastly the new Light system is much much better for Trials. In HoW after week 2, everyone was 34 and it was pretty much pointless to make level matter. Now we have a wide variety of levels, and they only give you a slight edge, but still an edge nonetheless. You have to make tough gear choices, "Do I choose my preferred gun and lose a light point or two?". Yeah RNG blows and may not be "fair", but I like seeing a range of levels and having that variability in play.

The other two things I would change would be to add in map rotation, and spawn rotation between rounds. This weeks map is Firebase Delphi and it really felt like the A spawn had the advantage. I'm glad they went with an old school map though. It was a nice change of pace.

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The bounty system is wonderful and easy. Play 10 games and you'll generally get all of them. Rewards are usually pretty decent too. I think I nabbed 3 or 4 items tonight of 300+ light. Some you have to get from wins, but still a good haul for a reasonable amount of play time.

That's actually pretty good to hear, and may give me a reason to jump into Trials. I have never done it, as I'm a very casual PvP player. I've always wanted to, but the competitive nature kept me away. I didn't want to saddle a team with trying to drag me through. It feels like so many teams go in with the attitude of "Lighthouse or bust," and I don't want to hold someone back from that. When I stop playing Fallout 4 and jump back into Destiny, I'd love to find a team to do a few relaxed runs with, with the understanding that hitting the Lighthouse isn't a reasonable goal for me. It does sound like it has the potential to be very fun.

What sort of Light requirement is really necessary for Trials? I'm only sitting at 301 or 302, and those are with not great PvP weapons, so I may have to hit up the Raid a few times for some infusion materials, or get some lucky 310 drops from the Three of Coins.

As much as I've been lamenting the fall release schedule and limited game time, I'm really glad for it, because an extended break from Destiny has made me actually start to look forward to when I can jump back in again. Taking a break from it really makes me appreciate all the things it has going for it, and gives a little perspective to how little the grind actually matters to enjoyment, and I feel like I'll really be able to avoid that mindset going back in.

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It feels like so many teams go in with the attitude of "Lighthouse or bust," and I don't want to hold someone back from that.

I think most of the people still playing Trials on Xbox are pretty relaxed about it now. There are still some moments of anguish and frustration, but mostly out of sense of competition rather than missing out on anything really special. I'd say a general attitude of, "we're playing to win, but we understand that is not always going to happen," is a good one to take.

What sort of Light requirement is really necessary for Trials? I'm only sitting at 301 or 302, and those are with not great PvP weapons, so I may have to hit up the Raid a few times for some infusion materials, or get some lucky 310 drops from the Three of Coins.

I'd say you would probably want to be 300+ with comfortable PvP weapons to not feel frustrated. If you can get a 310 quick revive exotic for whatever class, that's a solid choice, but you can be okay if you have something else and your teammates have quick revives instead. Invective is a good place to start with weapon load-outs, as it's excellent for when things get hectic, as they often do in Trials.

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If you can get a 310 quick revive exotic for whatever class, that's a solid choice,

How would one do that, exactly?

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I got my 310 Crest of Alpha Lupi's for my Hunter and Titan from Xur Engrams. Still don't have a 310 Light Beyond Nemesis. As long as you are 300+ there's a solid shot at 310, and if you are greater than 310 they are almost always 310. So Raid+Strange Coins+Decrypt? I don't know, I think I've gotten really lucky with drops this expansion.

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I took the Fusion Rifle, but I think it's a Conspiracy Theory-D? So longish range, high impact, low firing rate and reload, probably a good choice if you liked using Felwinter's. If you are good with timing shotguns, that archetype certainly works. I like Invective for the spam-ability.

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I took the Fusion Rifle, but I think it's a Conspiracy Theory-D? So longish range, high impact, low firing rate and reload, probably a good choice if you liked using Felwinter's. If you are good with timing shotguns, that archetype certainly works. I like Invective for the spam-ability.

Conspiracy Theory-D is a great "I've never shotgunned before in PvP but want to kill people in one shot" shotgun, but it simply doesn't fire quickly enough to be a top tier PvP shotgun. I like it more than felwinter's, so if you like felwinter, you're probably going to love the CSD. I use the Chaperone, but my #2 choice would be a Party Crasher +1 or Patch-A with rangefinder and crowd control. I need a shotgun that can kill all 3 people on the other team, standing next to each other, without reloading. While they're shooting at me.

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I don't use it much, but I got a CSD that has full auto and it makes it worth using.

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I played with Speed and Beorn last night and wile I can't say our experience matched yours at all in regards to matchmaking I do agree that the bounty system made the whole thing not have the frustrating feel of futility that Year 1 Trials could have if you got matched against a steamroller.

Most of the time I was just under 300 light so that I could have PVP friendly weapons and I was still able to kill people. If people survived a shot it seemed to me that it was due to me not having a feel for the new damage range falloffs not level imbalance, but I can't be sure.

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Vortech was wrecking with the Fusion Rifles last night! Almost made me wish I had one for that map since it lends itself to medium/short-range encounters.

And I definitely agree about the bounties making things better. Even when you're losing, you're making progress! Somewhere in the middle of a 5-game losing streak, I finished the Gold Package bounty and nabbed a 310 Int/Dis Blind Jackal Mask.

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Vortech was wrecking with the Fusion Rifles last night! Almost made me wish I had one for that map since it lends itself to medium/short-range encounters.

And I definitely agree about the bounties making things better. Even when you're losing, you're making progress! Somewhere in the middle of a 5-game losing streak, I finished the Gold Package bounty and nabbed a 310 Int/Dis Blind Jackal Mask.

When I played with Chaos and Cruel, we encountered a team that just suicided the entire match to end it quickly. Guess why? You need 10 games played for the bounty, and your ticket can be over in as few as 7. So, go and get three games out of the way super quickly.

I am still of the opinion that crucible bounties are bad ideas.

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You poor thing getting a free win from a team harming no one but themselves :p

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You poor thing getting a free win from a team harming no one but themselves :p

They harmed me. I wanted to you know, play another team of three in fierce crucible combat. What's the fun in winning if the opposing team isn't even trying?

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I just started playing trials again. Is this something we are seeing a lot?

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Not that it doesn't happen, obviously, but I don't think it's an epidemic.

"...ticket can be over in as few as 7 games..."

7 is not the fewest number of games that can end your ticket, just FYI.

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Not that it doesn't happen, obviously, but I don't think it's an epidemic.

"...ticket can be over in as few as 7 games..."

7 is not the fewest number of games that can end your ticket, just FYI.

He meant that's the least number of games that can get you to the Lighthouse, so if you want that bounty you have to do at least two tickets. So some folks will intentionally lose three games right away, then start their "real" ticket.

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I hate those pompous assholes who lose deliberately at first because they know they won't need it later.

One of my best moments encountering one was when I was playing soccer with my friends and a few randoms from the youth hostel in Luxembourg.

We decided it was over at one point and we had to have a shoot out thing to determine the winner. I was on goal during the game since I'm American and don't understand soccer, and had to stay in goal during the shoot out.

The guy from Portugal who was a complete jerk was doing their kicking. Our guy only scored once out of the five shots we allotted for some reason, so they only needed two goals to win. The stakes were high. The losers had to drink cider and not beer. The Portuguese asshole kicked to the side of the goal slowly three times.

"I'll only need two for the American," I was told he said later.

You see, I had been scored on every time they got a good shot, but my team was good enough that it didn't happen often (it was perceived as a fair matchup since I don't know the game).

I resolved that this time, I'd block the shots because he was a douchnozzle. I would show the Portuguese, the two Ukrainians, and my Luxembourgish friends what BEING AMERICAN IS ALL ABOUT. Winning!

He moved back, he ran forward, he kicked, and scored on me twice, so they won.

Four hours later, I got to second base with his girlfriend in an alley and she bought me a hamburger.

Possibly the greatest victory of my life.

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There's a chain from Belgium called Quick. They make burgers with a cardboard circle guide on them so they always look vaguely like the commercials. Very clean. Also they go heavy on the cheese and their mayo is superior. Whenever I am in a Quick area, I stop and eat there. Despite claiming they're the largest European fast food chain, I really only see them in France and Benelux, though I did see one in Barcelona once, and I think in Saarbrücken.

McDonald's does the best curly fries in the business though, and supposedly their beer isn't bad in the countries where they serve it, but I don't drink and never had any.

Avoid European Burger King at all costs.

A less looked for, but perfectly good option is Subway. You can order with two beef patties on a footlong, and have them put on hamburger toppings. They have it all. Did this once.

EDIT: Now I really really want a hamburger.

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I found the burgers in europe were often heavily seasoned. It was like eating a meatloaf sandwich instead of a burger.

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Radioactive lettuce is their secret ingredient.

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I would read it.

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You poor thing getting a free win from a team harming no one but themselves :p

They harmed me. I wanted to you know, play another team of three in fierce crucible combat. What's the fun in winning if the opposing team isn't even trying?

I think it's great fun.

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Not getting what you want isn't the same as being "harmed". At worst they wasted a few minutes of your time, and you were rewarded for it.

Blueberries focussing on bounties instead of winning I agree is a problem. But a free win on your ticket on what is guaranteed to be a minimum of an hour and a half of playing (longer if you like) is hardly a good example.

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You poor thing getting a free win from a team harming no one but themselves :p

They harmed me. I wanted to you know, play another team of three in fierce crucible combat. What's the fun in winning if the opposing team isn't even trying?

I take it you don't use any of the Trials buffs, then, since they specifically make it easier to get to the lighthouse without having to play as many people...

Cody's Lighthouse Purity Crew or bust, huh?

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I take it you don't use any of the Trials buffs, then, since they specifically make it easier to get to the lighthouse without having to play as many people...

Cody's Lighthouse Purity Crew or bust, huh?

I use all the buffs. It's very challenging with them. Maybe if I get good enough one day to steamroll everybody, I'll play buffless. But right now the buffs provide help while still keeping things tough. Basically, it's the right amount of challenge. If there were some combination of buffs that let you get to the lighthouse in say, only one win, then Trials night would be considerably less fun because it would be too easy.

The goldilocks principle man.

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I take it you don't use any of the Trials buffs, then, since they specifically make it easier to get to the lighthouse without having to play as many people...

Cody's Lighthouse Purity Crew or bust, huh?

I use all the buffs. It's very challenging with them. Maybe if I get good enough one day to steamroll everybody, I'll play buffless. But right now the buffs provide help while still keeping things tough. Basically, it's the right amount of challenge. If there were some combination of buffs that let you get to the lighthouse in say, only one win, then Trials night would be considerably less fun because it would be too easy.

The goldilocks principle man.

But...

You were complaining about ONE team that suicided to give you an easy win ONCE. You didn't suggest that it was happening all the time (and other evidence suggests it's not), you complained about the ONE win you got out of it.

When Korny called you out on that, you said that if 9 of your 10 wins were easy it wouldn't be fun. (I could even buy that.) But you complained about ONE cheap win, not nine.

How about considering the way you phrase your complaints so that we understand you're worried about the abstract problem that MIGHT happen if everyone does this, rather than the real situation you found yourself in?

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I take it you don't use any of the Trials buffs, then, since they specifically make it easier to get to the lighthouse without having to play as many people...

Cody's Lighthouse Purity Crew or bust, huh?

I use all the buffs. It's very challenging with them. Maybe if I get good enough one day to steamroll everybody, I'll play buffless. But right now the buffs provide help while still keeping things tough. Basically, it's the right amount of challenge. If there were some combination of buffs that let you get to the lighthouse in say, only one win, then Trials night would be considerably less fun because it would be too easy.

The goldilocks principle man.

But...

You were complaining about ONE team that suicided to give you an easy win ONCE. You didn't suggest that it was happening all the time (and other evidence suggests it's not), you complained about the ONE win you got out of it.

When Korny called you out on that, you said that if 9 of your 10 wins were easy it wouldn't be fun. (I could even buy that.) But you complained about ONE cheap win, not nine.

How about considering the way you phrase your complaints so that we understand you're worried about the abstract problem that MIGHT happen if everyone does this, rather than the real situation you found yourself in?

What exactly do you want? It happened to me, and I thought it sucked. It doesn't matter how prevalent it is. When it happens it sucks. The fact that it happens at all, because of the bounties, is a bad thing. No bounties (or different ones) mean no incentive for that behavior.

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I still don't believe that it happening to you once "sucked" all that hard. I find it very hard to believe you were sat there raring to go, realised you were getting a free win and said "Man, this sucks! I really wanted an even fight. Now I won't get to play any Trials at all because I was only going to play one game and this has filled my quota. The humanity!"

It's also pretty unlikely you got this at 8 and 0. Anyone throwing the game intentionally can't be far into their ticket. Considering you wanted a challenge they basically let you skip ahead to more worthy opponents, thanks to the new matchmaking system. Hooray!

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I still don't believe that it happening to you once "sucked" all that hard. I find it very hard to believe you were sat there raring to go, realised you were getting a free win and said "Man, this sucks! I really wanted an even fight. Now I won't get to play any Trials at all because I was only going to play one game and this has filled my quota. The humanity!"

It's also pretty unlikely you got this at 8 and 0. Anyone throwing the game intentionally can't be far into their ticket. Considering you wanted a challenge they basically let you skip ahead to more worthy opponents, thanks to the new matchmaking system. Hooray!

You've actually got that last part a bit backwards. The people most likely to throw a few games have already gone to the lighthouse (completing 7 games in the process) and are just throwing the final 3 games to complete the "Play 10 games" bounty. So you are increasingly likely to run into them later in your own ticket.

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You've actually got that last part a bit backwards. The people most likely to throw a few games have already gone to the lighthouse (completing 7 games in the process) and are just throwing the final 3 games to complete the "Play 10 games" bounty. So you are increasingly likely to run into them later in your own ticket.

I don't think that's how it works. If they've already been to Lighthouse, they'd be on q brand new ticket with zero wins, so they wouldn't be matched with somebody with seven or eight wins, so it'd be much LESS likely to run into them late in your ticket.

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You've actually got that last part a bit backwards. The people most likely to throw a few games have already gone to the lighthouse (completing 7 games in the process) and are just throwing the final 3 games to complete the "Play 10 games" bounty. So you are increasingly likely to run into them later in your own ticket.

I don't think that's how it works. If they've already been to Lighthouse, they'd be on q brand new ticket with zero wins, so they wouldn't be matched with somebody with seven or eight wins, so it'd be much LESS likely to run into them late in your ticket.

Not really. You can keep playing on your same ticket even after reaching 9 wins. Most of the streamers that I watch while working on Friday afternoons when Trials goes live, upon getting their 9-0, they go ahead and play those extra three games on that same ticket before swapping characters to do it again.

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Considering the new matchmaking system though, you'd still be unlikely to run into them, right?

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Considering the new matchmaking system though, you'd still be unlikely to run into them, right?

It makes it more likely you'll run into them when you're at 8 wins, since their card "stays" at 9 wins. (In fact, the game might even count it as 8 wins on their card... if you keep your card and win a "10th" game, you'll notice that the animation will show the 9th yellow circle popping again each time).

That said, I have not seen people throw matches at the end of their tickets to get those last three games played - but I have seen them throw matches on a fresh throwaway ticket just to farm for passage coins, as has been mentioned already in this thread.

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Not really. You can keep playing on your same ticket even after reaching 9 wins. Most of the streamers that I watch while working on Friday afternoons when Trials goes live, upon getting their 9-0, they go ahead and play those extra three games on that same ticket before swapping characters to do it again.

Ah, okay. I just thought if you made it to the Lighthouse, you're card was done.

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Not really. You can keep playing on your same ticket even after reaching 9 wins. Most of the streamers that I watch while working on Friday afternoons when Trials goes live, upon getting their 9-0, they go ahead and play those extra three games on that same ticket before swapping characters to do it again.

Ah, okay. I just thought if you made it to the Lighthouse, you're card was done.

Yeah, it used to work that way - but that was one of the changes for Y2 Trials. It seemed like a good change... but hindsight might be showing otherwise.

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Not really. You can keep playing on your same ticket even after reaching 9 wins. Most of the streamers that I watch while working on Friday afternoons when Trials goes live, upon getting their 9-0, they go ahead and play those extra three games on that same ticket before swapping characters to do it again.

Ah, okay. I just thought if you made it to the Lighthouse, you're card was done.

Yeah, it used to work that way - but that was one of the changes for Y2 Trials. It seemed like a good change... but hindsight might be showing otherwise.

I've never played Trials, but it seems like a bad change regardless. If you've already made it to the Lighthouse, why would you keep playing on the same ticket? Seems like you're ticket should be over, since you won, and if you want to keep playing, you get another ticket. I guess it doesn't really change anything whether you keep playing on that ticket or a new one, but it just seems like if you're going to be in the competition pool, it shouldn't be on the ticket you've "won".

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Not really. You can keep playing on your same ticket even after reaching 9 wins. Most of the streamers that I watch while working on Friday afternoons when Trials goes live, upon getting their 9-0, they go ahead and play those extra three games on that same ticket before swapping characters to do it again.

Ah, okay. I just thought if you made it to the Lighthouse, you're card was done.

Yeah, it used to work that way - but that was one of the changes for Y2 Trials. It seemed like a good change... but hindsight might be showing otherwise.

I've never played Trials, but it seems like a bad change regardless. If you've already made it to the Lighthouse, why would you keep playing on the same ticket? Seems like you're ticket should be over, since you won, and if you want to keep playing, you get another ticket. I guess it doesn't really change anything whether you keep playing on that ticket or a new one, but it just seems like if you're going to be in the competition pool, it shouldn't be on the ticket you've "won".

So there are a few camps on this. By all accounts, it appears people who keep playing their ticket after going to the lighthouse maintain their "8 wins" ranking as far as matchmaking is concerned, which means they are consistently matched up with other "8 win" teams. I've heard some players say they enjoy playing at such a competitive level against highly skilled teams. In some ways, it's the closest Destiny has to ranked play or skill-based matchmaking. However, this means that those top-level teams who keep playing after going to the lighthouse spend their time denying other teams their chance at a 9-0 record, which is kinda rough.

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On the other hand, it keeps the lighthouse teams from bumping into a more calls team that both just started a card, so it's not all sadness on that side of the matchup.

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I take it you don't use any of the Trials buffs, then, since they specifically make it easier to get to the lighthouse without having to play as many people...

Cody's Lighthouse Purity Crew or bust, huh?

I use all the buffs. It's very challenging with them. Maybe if I get good enough one day to steamroll everybody, I'll play buffless. But right now the buffs provide help while still keeping things tough. Basically, it's the right amount of challenge. If there were some combination of buffs that let you get to the lighthouse in say, only one win, then Trials night would be considerably less fun because it would be too easy.

The goldilocks principle man.

But...

You were complaining about ONE team that suicided to give you an easy win ONCE. You didn't suggest that it was happening all the time (and other evidence suggests it's not), you complained about the ONE win you got out of it.

When Korny called you out on that, you said that if 9 of your 10 wins were easy it wouldn't be fun. (I could even buy that.) But you complained about ONE cheap win, not nine.

How about considering the way you phrase your complaints so that we understand you're worried about the abstract problem that MIGHT happen if everyone does this, rather than the real situation you found yourself in?

What exactly do you want? It happened to me, and I thought it sucked. It doesn't matter how prevalent it is. When it happens it sucks. The fact that it happens at all, because of the bounties, is a bad thing. No bounties (or different ones) mean no incentive for that behavior.

So if there was no bounty that encouraged that behavior, but you encountered it anyway (don't tell me you never encountered people fucking around like this in Halo, because I did, lots of times), would it still suck? You get a free win on an acknowledged hard journey - one that costs you only a few minutes, and one that doesn't come around very often. It doesn't happen on every run, and it probably doesn't ever happen more than once a run - how is it different from a boon (except that it was an unexpected one)?

And if that's okay - how are you sure that this one was specifically caused by the bounty? If there was a team that just decided to fuck around like this, and you happened to encounter them... how can you know what their motivation REALLY is?

I guess what I'm asking is... WHY does it suck? If you tell me that it sucks because you think that crucible bounties are bad and this is evidence, we'll just have to agree to disagree here - because I don't think you can know what their motivation really was, and I think it's silly to complain about something that, given different circumstances than the ones you THINK occurred, you'd be okay with.

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And if that's okay - how are you sure that this one was specifically caused by the bounty? If there was a team that just decided to fuck around like this, and you happened to encounter them... how can you know what their motivation REALLY is?

You're right, I can't say for certain, but it's extremely likely given the nature of their suicides (they immediately ran to the edge and jumped off as quickly as possible). If they wanted to fuck around, they wouldn't have killed themselves as quickly as possible?

If this happened in Halo… well there's not much you can do. But at least there was no encouragement or incentive from the game itself.

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If this happened in Halo… well there's not much you can do. But at least there was no encouragement or incentive from the game itself.

It was quite common in Halo 3. Players would de-rank to lower their TrueSkill so they could beat up on worse players, or just for the challenge of going from 50 to 1 to 50 again. It was annoying when a full other team would do it, since it took a while, but it was way, way worse when a random on your team was doing it. Thankfully Bungie learned to decouple progression from skill-based matching systems after that. Trials is their magnum opus in this regard.

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I take it you don't use any of the Trials buffs, then, since they specifically make it easier to get to the lighthouse without having to play as many people...

Cody's Lighthouse Purity Crew or bust, huh?

I use all the buffs. It's very challenging with them. Maybe if I get good enough one day to steamroll everybody, I'll play buffless. But right now the buffs provide help while still keeping things tough. Basically, it's the right amount of challenge. If there were some combination of buffs that let you get to the lighthouse in say, only one win, then Trials night would be considerably less fun because it would be too easy.

The goldilocks principle man.

But...

You were complaining about ONE team that suicided to give you an easy win ONCE. You didn't suggest that it was happening all the time (and other evidence suggests it's not), you complained about the ONE win you got out of it.

When Korny called you out on that, you said that if 9 of your 10 wins were easy it wouldn't be fun. (I could even buy that.) But you complained about ONE cheap win, not nine.

How about considering the way you phrase your complaints so that we understand you're worried about the abstract problem that MIGHT happen if everyone does this, rather than the real situation you found yourself in?

What exactly do you want? It happened to me, and I thought it sucked. It doesn't matter how prevalent it is. When it happens it sucks. The fact that it happens at all, because of the bounties, is a bad thing. No bounties (or different ones) mean no incentive for that behavior.

So if there was no bounty that encouraged that behavior, but you encountered it anyway (don't tell me you never encountered people fucking around like this in Halo, because I did, lots of times), would it still suck? You get a free win on an acknowledged hard journey - one that costs you only a few minutes, and one that doesn't come around very often. It doesn't happen on every run, and it probably doesn't ever happen more than once a run - how is it different from a boon (except that it was an unexpected one)?

And if that's okay - how are you sure that this one was specifically caused by the bounty? If there was a team that just decided to fuck around like this, and you happened to encounter them... how can you know what their motivation REALLY is?

I've run in to this several times (3 or 4). I have no proof that the bounty is the reason the teams were instantly-suiciding to end the rounds as fast as possible, but it seems like the most likely and logical explanation given the circumstances.

I guess what I'm asking is... WHY does it suck? If you tell me that it sucks because you think that crucible bounties are bad and this is evidence, we'll just have to agree to disagree here - because I don't think you can know what their motivation really was, and I think it's silly to complain about something that, given different circumstances than the ones you THINK occurred, you'd be okay with.

I can't speak for Cody here, but multiplayer bounties have always bothered me back to the Halo Reach days because they add motivators that affect the way people play, and not necessarily in a way that helps the team. Same goes for many of the quests that involve crucible goals. It drives me crazy when I get stuck with teammates who are just camping around corners with their empty sword hilt, desperately trying to complete that portion of their sword quest. Thing is, I don't blame them either because that quest is such a pain in the butt otherwise. Most bounties have a similar effect: people don't do what is best for their team, they do what they need to do to complete bounties. Sometimes those goals line up, but they often don't.

Aside from Iron Banner or Trials, I've stopped collecting Crucible bounties for this exact reason. The only time I'll take bounties is if I know I can unlock them without thinking about them. That's why the Trials bounties don't bother me at all: you don't need to think about them. Just play 10 games and you'll have them all done, almost guaranteed.

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And if that's okay - how are you sure that this one was specifically caused by the bounty? If there was a team that just decided to fuck around like this, and you happened to encounter them... how can you know what their motivation REALLY is?

I've run in to this several times (3 or 4). I have no proof that the bounty is the reason the teams were instantly-suiciding to end the rounds as fast as possible, but it seems like the most likely and logical explanation given the circumstances.

I've seen this once, after messaging with the other team I found out it was because they were farming for passage coins. I didn't mind it at the time because I was playing to try & get that messenger, but if I were playing solely for the fun of competition I can see how this would detract from that. So I guess it depends upon what you want from the trials.

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And if that's okay - how are you sure that this one was specifically caused by the bounty? If there was a team that just decided to fuck around like this, and you happened to encounter them... how can you know what their motivation REALLY is?

I've run in to this several times (3 or 4). I have no proof that the bounty is the reason the teams were instantly-suiciding to end the rounds as fast as possible, but it seems like the most likely and logical explanation given the circumstances.

I've seen this once, after messaging with the other team I found out it was because they were farming for passage coins. I didn't mind it at the time because I was playing to try & get that messenger, but if I were playing solely for the fun of competition I can see how this would detract from that. So I guess it depends upon what you want from the trials.

Ahh, that's another interesting "reason" for people to do this. I've never run into it before Trials 2.0, so my brain naturally reached for an answer in the "what has changed to encourage this" department. But yeah, farming coins makes perfect sense as well.

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I've seen this once, after messaging with the other team I found out it was because they were farming for passage coins.

That is a viable alternative explanation.

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I agree that the balance is decent, with the exception of Hammer Bros being grossly insanely absurdly overpowered.

Also hand cannons need a buff (sorry, but they do). Just make them shoot where I'm aiming.

Maps need to either swap spawns every round (or every 2 rounds), or need to be designed better because there are clearly more favorable spawns on some maps (point A or "inside" spawn is the stronger one this week). On the whole, the crucible maps are not well balanced for gametypes with fixed spawn locations.

Lag and lagswitching are still issues. Need fixing badly.

And then there's my real problem, which is that I can only play after 10 pm PST, so I only ever play against lighthousers. I think of the 20 matches I played tonight, only 1 team had zero lighthouse players. This isn't Bungie's problem at all, but it totally sucks that this late at night every single game i play is a bunch of super good tryhard players. /sadface.

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I agree that Trials 2.0 is almost perfect. I think all the changes they've made are for the better. In most cases, I think multiplayer bounties cause problems. But the Trials bounties don't affect the way people play at all. Just play as you normally would and you'll complete the bounties, which is great.

My 1 complaint is an issue I've brought up before: the rewards suck. The way awards are earned is far better, but what you actually get out of Trials is a dissapointment, IMO. The new guns really are nothing special. The extra perk given to the adept weapons is so limited that it's barely a perk. Much like the raid gear, Trials gear is better used as infusion fodder than gear to actually use, which kinda sucks. In Trials 1.0 I fought tooth and nail to get to the Lighthouse. In 2.0, I don't really care.

I still love the gameplay experience that Trials brings, I just wish the rewards were worth the effort.

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I agree that Trials 2.0 is almost perfect. I think all the changes they've made are for the better. In most cases, I think multiplayer bounties cause problems. But the Trials bounties don't affect the way people play at all. Just play as you normally would and you'll complete the bounties, which is great.

Agreed. I don't really care for the weekly bounties for Shaxx because they require you to play/do certain things. The Trials bounties are great. You don't have to win or be a pro, just play, you will get them. The rewards from the bounties are OK. If nothing else you are going to get a 300 plus item, and 50 marks.

My 1 complaint is an issue I've brought up before: the rewards suck. The way awards are earned is far better, but what you actually get out of Trials is a dissapointment, IMO. The new guns really are nothing special. The extra perk given to the adept weapons is so limited that it's barely a perk. Much like the raid gear, Trials gear is better used as infusion fodder than gear to actually use, which kinda sucks. In Trials 1.0 I fought tooth and nail to get to the Lighthouse. In 2.0, I don't really care.

Disagree partially here. The new rewards aren't as good as year 1. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I remember when everyone else had the messenger, and I had been to the lighthouse about 8 times before I got one ( I missed the days he was selling it due to drill). It was very disheartening because that gun was such a game changer because it was overpowered. Now the weapons are not as good, but still viable. I think the problem was just that year ones were so good/overpowered, that is what we set our expectation to. The armor is better, because it has PVP specific perks (super on revives? YES PLEASE). The random reward drops are pretty bad, but so was the watchers gear in trials 1.0. So for me the gear is acceptable, they could have made it more unique though.

All in all, 2.0 was definitely an improvement. With the class balancing it feels right (minus sunbreakers). The lack of stand out overpowered guns makes it alot more fun. Year 1 there were a total of like 5 primaries people used. Hawkmoon, TLW, Messenger, Hopscotch, and Red Death are the ones that came to mind. Now I have seen people use a vast difference in guns, which is nice. It adds alot of versatility to the game. The change in maps has been great. I thought exodus Blue was going to be a terrible map, but turned out to be alot of fun.

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I agree that Trials 2.0 is almost perfect. I think all the changes they've made are for the better. In most cases, I think multiplayer bounties cause problems. But the Trials bounties don't affect the way people play at all. Just play as you normally would and you'll complete the bounties, which is great.

Agreed. I don't really care for the weekly bounties for Shaxx because they require you to play/do certain things. The Trials bounties are great. You don't have to win or be a pro, just play, you will get them. The rewards from the bounties are OK. If nothing else you are going to get a 300 plus item, and 50 marks.

My 1 complaint is an issue I've brought up before: the rewards suck. The way awards are earned is far better, but what you actually get out of Trials is a dissapointment, IMO. The new guns really are nothing special. The extra perk given to the adept weapons is so limited that it's barely a perk. Much like the raid gear, Trials gear is better used as infusion fodder than gear to actually use, which kinda sucks. In Trials 1.0 I fought tooth and nail to get to the Lighthouse. In 2.0, I don't really care.

Disagree partially here. The new rewards aren't as good as year 1. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I remember when everyone else had the messenger, and I had been to the lighthouse about 8 times before I got one ( I missed the days he was selling it due to drill). It was very disheartening because that gun was such a game changer because it was overpowered. Now the weapons are not as good, but still viable. I think the problem was just that year ones were so good/overpowered, that is what we set our expectation to. The armor is better, because it has PVP specific perks (super on revives? YES PLEASE). The random reward drops are pretty bad, but so was the watchers gear in trials 1.0. So for me the gear is acceptable, they could have made it more unique though.

To me, most of what you're describing here is 1 imbalanced gun: the messenger. It was insanely good for PvP. Too good. But that 1 gun aside, the year 1 Trials weapons were a fantastic set of rewards. Great specs and percs for PvP without being overpowered, and the Adept versions had the distinction of being great for PvE as well thanks to the elemental damage. So you had these guns that felt like they were a special reward, they were fantastic in PvE and PvP without being overpowered (except for the messenger). Now, the 2.0 weapons feel completely unremarkable.

All in all, 2.0 was definitely an improvement. With the class balancing it feels right (minus sunbreakers). The lack of stand out overpowered guns makes it alot more fun. Year 1 there were a total of like 5 primaries people used. Hawkmoon, TLW, Messenger, Hopscotch, and Red Death are the ones that came to mind. Now I have seen people use a vast difference in guns, which is nice. It adds alot of versatility to the game. The change in maps has been great. I thought exodus Blue was going to be a terrible map, but turned out to be alot of fun.

I'm enjoying the diversity as well, although I do wonder if some of what we're seeing is artificial diversity for the sake of maximizing light level. I've seen a surprising amount of raid gear in Trials, which makes me think people are using their max-level gear rather than their best PvP gear. I suspect that as each week goes by, and people have more time to infuse their favorite guns up in level, we'll see a short list of favorites domination Trials. Even so, it's better than the old Thorn/Last Word/Messenger days.

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I have no real incentive to play except for the fun of it. Normally that would be fine, but Destiny itself has trained me to focus on the most reqarding activities.

The fact that the armour is literally just a pallette swap annoys me especially. I'm now playing an activity I've already played a lot to get the same rewards I already have, but with bigger numbers. That's not interesting, that's just grind. The weapons are a little more interesting at least.

On the plus side I do like the bounty system. And Trials in general. But Im much less inclined to play every weekend like I did in Y1.

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I have no real incentive to play except for the fun of it.

I personally like it better this way. Before, if I didn't play I felt like I was missing out on chances for rewards. So not playing actually had an opportunity cost that felt significant. But now? When it's primarily for fun, I don't feel that when I don't play. I've been playing Destiny much less, and been happier for it, both because I can do other things, but also because the time I DO choose to spend with the game now is much much better.

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It just turns out it was mostly that opportunity cost that kept me playing. I'm much more likely to play an hour or so of ultra-casual Clash than anything else now. I don't know if that's a good thing or not though. Probably, I guess.

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I have no real incentive to play except for the fun of it. Normally that would be fine, but Destiny itself has trained me to focus on the most reqarding activities.

I don't care about the loot, and when thinking about which game was built to be pure fun, I played Halo.

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Instead of Destiny, I've played Magicka, Binary Domain, Dragon Fin Soup, Towerfall Ascension, Rayman Legends, Mercenary Kings, Tales from the Borderlands and FFXIII over the last fortnight.

Turns out when I'm not playing the one game over and over and over I have a lot more variety. Imagine that.

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I thought it was OK. I hate Hope. There are some good songs in that game.

I thought xiii-2 was better in some ways; particularly the combat system.

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I last played 13 in 2011. I got about 15-20 hours in, went out for a pack of cugarettes and never came home. I've been meaning to finish it up but never got around to it. Now that there's a convenient Destiny-sized hole in my calendar I thought I'd start over. I'm only about 6 hours in but I'm enjoying it.

I'd forgotten how much I like the fight system, which is a bit controversial be ause I know a lot of people disliked it. But it feels a lot more about timing and directing the flow of battle, rather than the traditional approach of issuing individual commands one at a time. I'm arguably doing less (though I dont really see the difference between me pressing Attack 3 times and the computer doing it because I told it to) but it all happens so much faster that it's still engaging.

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I'd forgotten how much I like the fight system, which is a bit controversial be ause I know a lot of people disliked it. But it feels a lot more about timing and directing the flow of battle, rather than the traditional approach of issuing individual commands one at a time. I'm arguably doing less (though I dont really see the difference between me pressing Attack 3 times and the computer doing it because I told it to) but it all happens so much faster that it's still engaging.

15 hours in might not even be enough to really start to get the gist of the battle system. The game is SO SLOW to open up.

Ultimately, the combat system is more fast paced, but just as simple as previous games. You do pretty much the same thing in every boss battle:

1. Buff everyone and debuff the boss
2. Use Relentless Assault or Mystic Tower to build the boss's chain gauge
3. Switch to combat clinic and heal as needed.
4. When staggered, use Army of One or Cold blood to get the chain gauge to 999% or as close as possible (if you don't have these, use Tri-Disaster).
5. Launch the enemy and attack with Cerberus or Aggression until the stagger wears off.
6. Repeat.

Every boss. It's really that simple. Things get more tricky in the post game quests, but I never did those because you have to grind to get strong enough.

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Mostly agreed. I actually liked the paradigm system a lot.

There was a Penny arcade comic or video back close to when the game came out, and someone said, "Oh man, that game gets awesome after 24 hours!" At the time I thought, that's absurd--but it's true. It takes about 24 hours before all the combat options are available to you.

And yeah, FF13 had a lot of grindy bits after the final boss battle. I never did them. FF13-2 pissed me off because I played through the entire game, got to the final boss, and could not win. I had trounced every other boss in the game no problem, but then I couldn't beat the final boss without grinding. So I said forget it--I didn't want to grind; I quit and never played it again.

Edit: Relevant comic. It's cool he's wearing a N7 hoodie.

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And yeah, FF13 had a lot of grindy bits after the final boss battle. I never did them. FF13-2 pissed me off because I played through the entire game, got to the final boss, and could not win. I had trounced every other boss in the game no problem, but then I couldn't beat the final boss without grinding. So I said forget it--I didn't want to grind; I quit and never played it again.

I gave up with XIII-2 even earlier, mostly because I just wasn't feeling the story, and because there is a bunch of DLC stuff that I feel like I'd be missing out on. Honestly, JRPGs suck as games, so the story is really the only reason I'd ever play them.

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And yeah, FF13 had a lot of grindy bits after the final boss battle. I never did them. FF13-2 pissed me off because I played through the entire game, got to the final boss, and could not win. I had trounced every other boss in the game no problem, but then I couldn't beat the final boss without grinding. So I said forget it--I didn't want to grind; I quit and never played it again.

I gave up with XIII-2 even earlier, mostly because I just wasn't feeling the story, and because there is a bunch of DLC stuff that I feel like I'd be missing out on. Honestly, JRPGs suck as games, so the story is really the only reason I'd ever play them.

FF8. The combat required brains, and the story was pretty neat. Only FFX came close to requiring some thought with combat and such, but that's because it took the R/P/S combat to an almost absurd level (which the summons entirely negated).

FF13-2 was one of my favorite Pokemon games, though... Story in the FF13 series sucks worse than Halo 5's, so I would ignore it completely if you ever plan to play through the whole thing.

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FF8. The combat required brains, and the story was pretty neat.

Story yes. However the combat itself was dull, because it was all about just hoarding spells, either via draw or refining, and maxing out your STR so your attacks did a ton of damage. Your physical attack is basically the most powerful thing in the game if you get the junctioning right. The 'brains' aspect happens before the battles even start, and the actual fight is just a formality.

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Trials 2.0 is nearly perfect. (Destiny)