Update's soon! (Next week)

-All Titan classes to be tweaked (more info tomorrow).

-339,900 people have completed the Worm challenge.

-Did I mention the Sunbreaker nerf?

I assume it'll be just the Warpriest, Golgoroth and sisters, then. Also, a single challenge per boss. Shame, I expected more. Still, nice to have guaranteed 320 drops each week.

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The challenges as activities can be seen in the database, they are Warpriest, Golgoroth, and Oryx.

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It's different if you have a group that plays together all the time... but I've found that the Sisters are consistently the HARDEST part of the raid, bar none, for groups with folks who don't normally play as a unit.

The reason is simple: running the spark is the most complicated part of the section (whether you think that's very complicated or not very complicated is not really relevant; it's MORE complicated than any other job), and not everyone is good at it... and the Sisters force the job on a random member of the team every single run. No other section is like this - Warpriest lets you pick your aura-holders (at least the starting ones), Golgoroth lets you pick your gazers, Oryx lets you pick your runner. Only the sisters force this not-everyone-is-good-at-it job on a random member of the team, at least twice and often up to 4 times per raid. (Not including the wipes. :) )

It's different if you have a group that plays together all the time... but I've found that the Sisters are consistently the HARDEST part of the raid, bar none, for groups with folks who don't normally play as a unit.

The reason is simple: running the spark is the most complicated part of the section (whether you think that's very complicated or not very complicated is not really relevant; it's MORE complicated than any other job), and not everyone is good at it... and the Sisters force the job on a random member of the team every single run. No other section is like this - Warpriest lets you pick your aura-holders (at least the starting ones), Golgoroth lets you pick your gazers, Oryx lets you pick your runner. Only the sisters force this not-everyone-is-good-at-it job on a random member of the team, at least twice and often up to 4 times per raid. (Not including the wipes. :) )

I've found the door/totem section before the Warpriest can a challenge for similar reasons: every player is forced to perform every role over the course of the encounter. It's quite a bit to learn all at once, which can make it tricky.

I honestly think the totems are the hardest part of the Raid as a group. I have no idea why, but I rarely have it go smoothly, even though my blind run with DBO folks went smooth as a well-made french omelet. I do concede Oryx is really hard as well, but that's mostly due to gear check than actual strategy. Confluxes are very similar to Oryx in difficulty, IMO.

Still, Wu makes a great point. Randomly forcing someone to run the relic makes it very complex to reliably plan around.

I fully disagree on the difficulty of this section even with 5 other total strangers who have never played with each other. Hell, why not bring back the Bungie's sexist fun for this? It's so tough that Bungie won't allow three of coins to work on them. Meanwhile, Oryx's dinky shadow does. So tough.

I honestly think the totems are the hardest part of the Raid as a group. I have no idea why, but I rarely have it go smoothly, even though my blind run with DBO folks went smooth as a well-made french omelet. I do concede Oryx is really hard as well, but that's mostly due to gear check than actual strategy. Confluxes are very similar to Oryx in difficulty, IMO.

I have never had Totems go as well as the very first time we did them in our blind raid. It's never been a huge problem, but the first time was absolutely the best and easiest I've seen it done.

I assume it'll be just the Warpriest, Golgoroth and sisters, then. Also, a single challenge per boss. Shame, I expected more. Still, nice to have guaranteed 320 drops each week.

There has to be more. Before the challenge mode, Luke said we'd seen 5/13ths of the raid.

https://twitter.com/DestinyNews_net/status/659110345148125184

Unless it is:

1-2 Prove your worth Normal and Heroic
3-4 Warpiest normal and Heroic
5-6 Golgoroth Normal and Heoric
7-8 Daughters normal and Heoric
9-10 Oryx Normal and Heoric
11-13 Challenge modes

I would be… dissapointed if that's the case. Sorry Korny, but I expected more based on this and other statements.

-Did I mention the Sunbreaker nerf?

"We've heard complaints about the Sunbreakers, so we have decided to reduce the titan melee range by 50%".

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Didn't he? So Im pretty sure that HM brings us up to 10/13

I think that is what Cody tried to say in a pretty confusing way.

-Did I mention the Sunbreaker nerf?

"We've heard complaints about the Sunbreakers, so we have decided to reduce the titan melee range by 50%".

"We're also patching this problem with Titans by removing them from the game. Our initial feedback from the internal team was positive."

From a PVP perspective hammer of sol outclasses every other super in the game by a fair margin. In PVE, why would you ever choose golden gun, nova bomb, fist or arc blade over hammers?

The only downside to Solar titans is their relatively short ranged punch.

This is a situation that cannot continue if you want meaningful contributions from other classes.

First of all, this title is just down right offensive. I have played Titans since the beginning, and I'm not that great at PvP, but there is no reason to bash on Titan players because one of their supers is slightly overpowered.

From a PVP perspective hammer of sol outclasses every other super in the game by a fair margin. In PVE, why would you ever choose golden gun, nova bomb, fist or arc blade over hammers?

I would use Golden gun because I'm pretty sure I would actually get more kills with it. The key reason is because it's more silent than Hammer. Also, Nova bomb and Fist because they both can kill a hammer.

[Edit] Sorry, I thought you said PvP in your second sentence. In that case I would say that I think most of those have better orb generation. Otherwise hammer is great in PvE :-)

The only downside to Solar titans is their relatively short ranged punch.

Also, their melee abilities in general.

This is a situation that cannot continue if you want meaningful contributions from other classes.

Welcome to the life of a titan before TTK.

From a PVP perspective hammer of sol outclasses every other super in the game by a fair margin. In PVE, why would you ever choose golden gun, nova bomb, fist or arc blade over hammers?
[...]
This is a situation that cannot continue if you want meaningful contributions from other classes.

Welcome to the life of a titan before TTK.

This. Pre TTK I would reliably get around 0.75 better KDR with my Hunter than my Titan, about 0.3 better KDR with my Warlock than my Titan. I main a Titan in PvE, but I've left my first love & moved over to a Hunter in PvP because they just plain out class the Titans there, all except for the super which is just one piece of a class that's typically only used a couple times in a match.

Yes, the hammer is OP, but IMHO absolutely everything else regarding a Titan in PvP is under powered. I'm excited and scared to see what Bungie will be doing to Titans.

From a PVP perspective hammer of sol outclasses every other super in the game by a fair margin. In PVE, why would you ever choose golden gun, nova bomb, fist or arc blade over hammers?

I'mma start this by saying that I've never played more than one character, and that character has been a Titan from day one of Destiny. Before I had my solardoomhammer class, I was stomping people into oblivion as a Titan constantly. It's about time the Titans were given something that could handle the obnoxiousness of bladedancers. Warlock melees in general are also pretty jacked as far as range and overshielding abilities go. All this crying about hammers is sad.

The only downside to Solar titans is their relatively short ranged punch.

This is a situation that cannot continue if you want meaningful contributions from other classes.

So much salt. Do you play Trials? Shadowshot people shut down my hammer in about two seconds, and then their buddies proceed to waste us with whatever they have. Regular Crucible? I'm generally the only person in my crew or at any given time with randoms who runs the hammer. Meanwhile, it seems like 2-3 hammers pop on the other team back-to-back-to-back, and we still end up beating them. Use your own supers strategically, and get your BR up? :D

Prior to TTK, the fist of panic/shoulder charge combo was very good at cheapshotting people. Arc Titans are the fastest class and still has one of the best grenade selections. They were not as bad as people think, but because they were not optimal for trials we got lots of complaints.

Void titans were always welcome in PVE and often mandatory in raids. The only time my hunter was mandatory was using the sword on Crota. All the other times people wanted my titan for the bubble or the warlock for hard mode res.

Prior to TTK, the fist of panic/shoulder charge combo was very good at cheapshotting people. Arc Titans are the fastest class and still has one of the best grenade selections. They were not as bad as people think, but because they were not optimal for trials we got lots of complaints.

The problem with both of these skills is that they aren't that great if people know you are coming. That could be said of a lot of skills, but the fact that you have to be pretty close to use them means you need a little element of surprise.

Should charge is great in 6v6 if they don't know you are coming and there is no one else around. Which rarely happens in my experience. And FoH rarely compares to the kill count that most supers have. So basically it was a super that countered others.

I agree that I like the stun and lightning grenades. And fastest class? Do you mean mobility of shoulder charge? Because that doesn't actually make you run from one side of the map faster...

Void titans were always welcome in PVE and often mandatory in raids. The only time my hunter was mandatory was using the sword on Crota. All the other times people wanted my titan for the bubble or the warlock for hard mode res.

I totally understand. I think one of the reasons I don't like PvP much is because I chose to be a Titan from day one.

I have every class and subclass unlocked. I have all the exotics. I can, and have, tried every build. I have wrecked face with a void titan, NBPs and Chaperone. I've taken my blade dancer into Mayhem rumble and beat solar titans by a fair margin. My statement on class balance is based on a careful consideration of the abilities in total informed by my experience with them.

Perhaps instead of telling me to "get gud" you could discuss how you doing so well with arc titans means that your just a poor slob laboring under an unfair oppression by void warlocks.

Did I strike a nerve by telling the person who told all Titans to lern2plehgud that they should get gud themselves?

I don't personally have a Warlock or a Hunter. I've played both. The rampages I've gone on with those characters are hilarious. Granted, I also go on rampages with my Titan, so maybe it's just my own level of skill and not the supers! Getting a hammer finally evened out the scales a bit for Titans when dealing with the likes of Bladedancers and that cheap golden gun. Either way, when I get beat by someone with a hammer or any other type of class and super, I don't go making excuses about how they're bad or how they need to get good and learn to play. I go out there and stomp them into the ground with actual skill.

If you're telling me that Titans with hammers are causing you to lose games endlessly, maybe you need to find better skill for yourself, better teammates, or a different gametype.

"She'll put the contents in some bags that you can buy for silver, but the results will be less direct and less predictable"

So I'm reading this as they're taking the "you can buy these emotes" and turning them into "you can buy a spin on this wheel of emotes and hope you get one you don't already own."

If that's the case, god help those of you who can't stop throwing money at something.

I'm excited and scared to see what Bungie will be doing to Titans.

Very much this. I actually do well with my Defender in both PvP and PvE. Really well for PvE, even. But for the Crucible I think of all Titans as a gun platform with zero abilities or advantages. My shooting has to be spot on because I don't get fancy auto targeting grenades or special abilities and I sure as heck am not going to try and punch an enemy because as a Striker my melee is canceled by so many other classes shields, as a Sunbreaker my burn damaged is negated by the range of Hunters and Warlocks, and as a Defender even if I punch first and win by punching 3rd I only get like 25% shield boost while having already taken 50-75% damage from the enemy melee. I did not even consider Force Barrier a PvP ability until the Y2 No Backup Plans...

My dream updates for Titan melds would be:

Striker's charged Stormfist is a one hit kill to unshielded low and medium armor enemies.
Defender's Force Barrier activates briefly (just for one second) upon a charged melee hit (and would grant things like fast reloading via war machine during that time allowing for interesting strategyerying)
Sunbreaker charged melee only activates on 2nd punch (within a shortish window) meaning if you start and then win a melee battle in PvP you get your health regen / recharged melee from the kill instead of it being wasted.

I really think if the Cauterize ability only activated on grenade and melee kills most people would immediately think Bungie had nerfed the heck out of Sunbreakers. Maybe they're too damage resistant during their super, but if so its by a few hit points. Make them kill able by Golden gun and make it so they don't throw ranged tracking hammers that seem to instantly bring them back to full health and things would feel much much better even if relatively little actually changed.

I really think if the Cauterize ability only activated on grenade and melee kills most people would immediately think Bungie had nerfed the heck out of Sunbreakers. Maybe they're too damage resistant during their super, but if so its by a few hit points. Make them kill able by Golden gun and make it so they don't throw ranged tracking hammers that seem to instantly bring them back to full health and things would feel much much better even if relatively little actually changed.

There is not much that would have to change for people to feel better about them. I mean, they can be beat if you use the right super. But the fact that you can't just swarm them with players and kill them like all of the other supers that last for a set time. Sunbreakers actually like when more people come.

Reading the entire quote:

The December Update will refresh the inventory available from Tess. She’ll put the stuff you see now in some bags you can still acquire with some Silver, but their contents will be less direct and predictable.

I think it means she'll have a whole new set of directly purchased emotes then a grab bag for the older ones.

Reading the entire quote:

The December Update will refresh the inventory available from Tess. She’ll put the stuff you see now in some bags you can still acquire with some Silver, but their contents will be less direct and predictable.

I think it means she'll have a whole new set of directly purchased emotes then a grab bag for the older ones.

Yet, I don't know why you would need to make more room for new stuff, I mean she doesn't have THAT much inventory. She should be able to hold as much as the shader kiosk.

The problem is that they are going to destroy them in both PvP and PvE just to appease people that only play the worst part of the game and take it too seriously.

Unless you honestly think they figured out how to 'balance' something without completely ruining in it. In which case you are ignoring a year of evidence proving otherwise.

But whatever, I don't care. Turn Destiny into a PvP game when CoD already owns that market.

Counterpoint to that is I don't believe they are actually as tough as they appear. I took one down solo with a pulse rifle across Skyshock when he was traveling away from me. He was a good bit tougher than normal but I got him in one clip, I think. The trouble comes when they jump back to 100% after every kill. It means that unless you can kill them in the span of one hammer throw you basically have to start over. Take away Cauterize and it should be much more similar to staring down a Golden Gun. Very risky but doable.

Counterpoint to that is I don't believe they are actually as tough as they appear. I took one down solo with a pulse rifle across Skyshock when he was traveling away from me. He was a good bit tougher than normal but I got him in one clip, I think. The trouble comes when they jump back to 100% after every kill. It means that unless you can kill them in the span of one hammer throw you basically have to start over. Take away Cauterize and it should be much more similar to staring down a Golden Gun. Very risky but doable.

What they could do is make it so cauterize doesn't regen your health absurdly fast, or have it stop regen when you take damage.

Is it just me or does the bubble on the weekly update look bigger than normal? I'm talking about this one:

Is it just me or does the bubble on the weekly update look bigger than normal? I'm talking about this one:

Yeah, it does. It's mostly the height! It's almost twice the height of a standing titan. I thought they were normally more like 1.5 the height.

In game art maybe, but it looks too staged to be an actual in game clip to me.

In game art maybe, but it looks too staged to be an actual in game clip to me.

It looks in game to me. Maybe a little embellished after the fact, but the base picture looks like it was taken in game.

Perspective and zoom (like the dolly zoom effect), could explain the seemingly large bubble.

Changes are up. I think they largely got it right. A long cool down on Cauterize plus less damage resistance should help immensely without ruining the class.

You can assume all you want about my skill. Bungie's data doesn't support your opinions.

I would like to see numbers on average kills per super, grenade and melee, per game type, and if there is a difference in distance with ability kills. The nth level of detail is sometimes revealing, if you can clear away the noise.

Reducing armor, hammer speed, and explosion radius will make sunbreakers have to think more, and make matchups less one sided. Sunbreakers will have to think, just like hunters, on when to pop their supers and what proximity.

I'm not sure if the Defender buffs will make any difference. It will be interesting to see how strikers will feel with the new changes.

You can assume all you want about my skill. Bungie's data doesn't support your opinions.

What opinions did I state at all involving numbers? Hell, in the actual thread about the changes, I even agreed with Ragashingo that the changes are all well and good. I never claimed that Sunbreakers weren't OP. I even called the golden gun cheap as hell because, gasp, it, too, is OP! Don't care. I adapt. I survive. I win.

I only took issue with the fact that you seem to think that Titans don't know how to play and are somehow reliant upon being Sunbreakers. I, as a Titan, am damn good at this game with or without my hammer. I'm damn good at this game even when Bungie flips the car 20 times with every horrible weapon nerf. I adapt to whatever weapons, damage changes, or anything else Bungie throws at me with actual skill and gameplay prowess in Destiny. And Bungie's data, and their changes, were justified. Your entire premise about the people who play as Titans is the only thing that's bullshit. Get your BR up.

It's not very fun.

I mean, that's super subjective, but I got sick of playing as a Sunbreaker during Iron Banner. Their neutral game is boring as sin, and their super isn't all that fun to use either. I switched over to an NBP Defender build and had a million times more fun.

"Hey, remember how mich money we made selling random Halloween items? We should do that with emotes too! We can fleece those idiots for even more money"

I agree and will readily admit I was wrong, assuming it plays out how it reads. Auto rifles were barely touched percentage wise and went from great to irrelevant.

That being said, I'm looking forward to playing around with the Striker subclass again after the update.

I agree and will readily admit I was wrong, assuming it plays out how it reads. Auto rifles were barely touched percentage wise and went from great to irrelevant.

Eh. I was never an Auto Rifle fan, but I've played a bunch of PvP matches with them recently, because of quests/bounties. Suros Regime ROCKS. (I don't have a lot to compare it to - I didn't play with it Y1. But I was outgunning Nirwen's Mercy 1v1 regularly.)

I was referring to the 7-8 month period after they nerfed auto rifles. The recent buff has made them decent again, which is a good thing.