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The division (Gaming)

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Wednesday, December 09, 2015, 19:37 (3069 days ago)

Did anyone else get an email about being in the Alpha for the division (on Xbox). I don't remember signing up for that, but I'd like to check it out.

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The division

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Wednesday, December 09, 2015, 20:05 (3069 days ago) @ Vortech

Who made the game? did you buy one of their other games?

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The division

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Wednesday, December 09, 2015, 22:26 (3069 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

I'm willing to assume it's from a long time of playing Tom Clancy Games. That would also explain why I got it for Xbox, not PS.

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It's Ubisoft...

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Wednesday, December 09, 2015, 23:51 (3069 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

- No text -

is this Destiny meets Splinter Cell?

by Oholiab @, Thursday, December 10, 2015, 04:17 (3069 days ago) @ Vortech

I've always been a huge fan of the Splinter Cell franchise, despite it's ups and downs.

I'd be interested in trying the Beta if you get another code. That said, I'm not sure I can handle another "persistent and dynamic open world environment" that requires me to "loot fallen enemies and customize and level up weapons, gear, and skills". I can barely keep up with one such game...

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Doesn't look much like Splinter Cell

by Kahzgul, Thursday, December 10, 2015, 07:28 (3069 days ago) @ Oholiab

I've seen zero stealth elements in the game and I've been following it pretty religiously. It looks like a sweet FPS in a gorgeous game engine (bullets actually shoot holes in things that light and objects can pass through, for example), but the actual abilities seem suspiciously similar to WoW or (if I'm being brutally honest) the Matrix Online. And the enemies seem to - like destiny - have arbitrarily large health bars simply to make fighting them take longer, rather than having interesting mechanics or intelligent AI. To be fair, they haven't shown much of the actual gameplay, but that's a red flag to me these days. If you don't show the game, you're basically admitting that the game isn't something worth showing.

Still, I'm really curious to see this when it comes out, and if it's half as good to play as it is to look at, I'll be all over it. Except No Man's Sky comes out around the same time...

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Doesn't look much like Splinter Cell

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, December 11, 2015, 16:44 (3067 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Yeah, it looks more like GRAW and Destiny mixed, If we are looking for a Clancy mash up. It's not even the Beta, just the alpha, but i'll let you know if they give me more codes.

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I'm not that excited . . .

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, December 10, 2015, 13:02 (3069 days ago) @ Vortech

While I think the game looks interesting and probably fun, I can't handle another persistent, open world, always online, looting game. Destiny has me covered, there.

Plus, maybe I'm just cynical, I'm just not expecting it to actually be that good. They hype train started way to fast way too soon for this game, and with it's delays and basically seeing the same demo two years in a row . . . I dunno. I'm just not getting a good feeling from this game.

So there's my downer post for the day. I hope I'm wrong, if only for everyone else's sake. I doubt I'll really invest it in either way, unless it just happens to be the best thing we've ever seen and everyone abandons Destiny for it or something.

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I'm not that excited . . .

by Kahzgul, Thursday, December 10, 2015, 22:32 (3068 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I agree with you. The tech for the engine looks amazing, but the actual gameplay I've seen is bullet sponge bosses and not a lot of "fun" moments or interesting mechanics. The class on the fly system has potential, but we've also seen zero about how loot will work, ammo, weapons, etc.., nor have we really gotten into the designed "flow" of a gameplay session and what their ideal scenarios are for players who hop in. Touchpad integration is... weird. I don't like it.

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Me either, and I played a little.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, December 10, 2015, 23:35 (3068 days ago) @ cheapLEY

The mechanics felt complicated. Just wasn't fun, but it was only about ten minutes or less.

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Me either, and I played a little.

by Funkmon @, Thursday, December 10, 2015, 23:43 (3068 days ago) @ Kermit

That is usually my limit on playing a game now. Within 10 seconds of shooting the first gun in Destiny I knew it was going to control my life. The first time I shot elites in the mess hall on PoA I knew I'd like Halo even if it was a corridor shooter. In the first 10 minutes of BioShock, I was hooked.

The only games I liked that didn't grab me in the first ten minutes are TLOU, which I powered through for mad.max, and Life is Strange, which I only came back to when I was bored and realised I downloaded the demo.

This may mean that I have to rethink my game testing policy, since those two games were probably in my top 5 of all time life changing games, but still.

Now, I download a lot of demos, play, decide I don't like em, and quit. Life's too short to play games that aren't fun.

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Me either, and I played a little.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, December 11, 2015, 00:00 (3068 days ago) @ Funkmon

Now, I download a lot of demos, play, decide I don't like em, and quit. Life's too short to play games that aren't fun.

Yep. That's become my policy, too. My problem is that it sometimes takes longer than it should for me to realize I'm not having fun.

For instance, I got all the way to the twist in the first Bioshock before I realized I absolutely hated it and quit. I almost powered through because the twist was interesting, but I didn't. I only played about two hours of Infinite before I quit that one, so guess I'm getting better.

More recently, I only played about an hour of Pillars of Eternity before I abandoned it. It's probably a good game, but it didn't draw me in like I felt it should, and screw playing a 50+ hour game that doesn't do that.

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Me either, and I played a little.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, December 11, 2015, 00:54 (3068 days ago) @ Funkmon

That is usually my limit on playing a game now. Within 10 seconds of shooting the first gun in Destiny I knew it was going to control my life. The first time I shot elites in the mess hall on PoA I knew I'd like Halo even if it was a corridor shooter. In the first 10 minutes of BioShock, I was hooked.

The only games I liked that didn't grab me in the first ten minutes are TLOU, which I powered through for mad.max, and Life is Strange, which I only came back to when I was bored and realised I downloaded the demo.

This may mean that I have to rethink my game testing policy, since those two games were probably in my top 5 of all time life changing games, but still.

Now, I download a lot of demos, play, decide I don't like em, and quit. Life's too short to play games that aren't fun.

I dunno. Playing a game for such a short amount of time, and passing judgement on that is a pretty lame thing to do. I try to play a game as long as I can before I decide for sure that I don't like it, since you have to get used to the game, and the ways in which it differs from your comfort zones. Especially in this day and age of progression systems, where games take a while to pick up and open up for players.

I bought Dark Souls, and played about five hours of it since everyone apparently loves it, and I absolutely hated the game every step of the way. The gameplay was stiff, the mechanics dull, the enemies cheap... But so many people loved it that I had to make sure that I wasn't missing something. Ultimately I gave up on it, since it never got better. I went on to play Dragon's Dogma, which is a similar game, but a million times more fun.

I also played Resident Evil 5, which I would give a 2/5 review-wise, but as a co-op game, it was really fun. If I had judged it on the demo alone, I never would have gotten it.

I'm having a similar experience right now with Fable Legends. Fable 2 and 3 were pretty lousy games, so my standards were low, especially since Legends has a pretty weak start, but the more I play, the more the charm is winning me over.

Imagine if everyone started playing Mass Effect, and gave up on it since the first two hours of it are mostly just walking around the Citadel and talking to people, and they found it boring... Think of all that they would miss...

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Me either, and I played a little.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, December 11, 2015, 01:14 (3068 days ago) @ Korny

I dunno. Playing a game for such a short amount of time, and passing judgement on that is a pretty lame thing to do. I try to play a game as long as I can before I decide for sure that I don't like it, since you have to get used to the game, and the ways in which it differs from your comfort zones. Especially in this day and age of progression systems, where games take a while to pick up and open up for players.

I actually pretty strongly disagree with this. I get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree that it's possible to miss out on great experiences by giving up too soon, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to give games extended periods to hook me.

If it takes thirty minutes or more for your game to become fun, you designed it wrong.

It's like when I tried to watch Breaking Bad and found it incredibly boring. Everyone told me, "Oh but it really gets good in season 2!" Screw that. I'm not giving a show an entire season to catch my interest.

Granted, I do try to give games a bit of time to teach me its systems, but seriously, an hour tops. If I find absolutely no enjoyment in an hour, it's not worth it.

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Me either, and I played a little.

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, December 11, 2015, 03:22 (3068 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I dunno. Playing a game for such a short amount of time, and passing judgement on that is a pretty lame thing to do. I try to play a game as long as I can before I decide for sure that I don't like it, since you have to get used to the game, and the ways in which it differs from your comfort zones. Especially in this day and age of progression systems, where games take a while to pick up and open up for players.


I actually pretty strongly disagree with this. I get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree that it's possible to miss out on great experiences by giving up too soon, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to give games extended periods to hook me.

That's really unfortunate, but it's a reality for many folks.


If it takes thirty minutes or more for your game to become fun, you designed it wrong.

No, it's about pacing, and not overwhelming the player.
The "big reveal" in Bioshock? It's at the halfway point of the game. The story doesn't center around it.
The Last of Us? It's two hours into the game before you see your first Clicker.
Mass Effect, Gone Home, Borderlands, Tomb Raider, Journey, Shadow of the Colossus; all landmark games, many of them masterpieces, and all of them have very slow starts.
Heck, the fantastic Assassin's Creed 2 starts you out as a baby, and takes a while before you see your first wrist-blade (Abstergo escape notwithstanding).
Imagine if you hopped into a game, and they threw all of the freedom, mechanics, and complexities at you the minute you hit the ground? Warframe did that, and people complained about its ridiculously steep learning curve (they have since added an extended tutorial quest). Developers just can't win.

So if a game takes thirty minutes or more to open up, then the developer is doing something neither unwise, nor wise. It all comes down to each player, but the majority need to be eased into a game.


It's like when I tried to watch Breaking Bad and found it incredibly boring. Everyone told me, "Oh but it really gets good in season 2!" Screw that. I'm not giving a show an entire season to catch my interest.

And you seriously missed out. Breaking Bad is one of those few shows that only got better and better, and ended on its own terms with a very satisfying conclusion.

I think it's unfair to ask developers (and showrunners) to cater to the give-me-now audience. They have Michael Bay movies for that (not that I'm limping you into that category of consumer). Sometimes things take time. Others, like Gears of War and Call of Duty, throw you into the fray faster, but good storytelling takes time, and good games sometimes need to establish the world that you're in before unleashing you into it.


Granted, I do try to give games a bit of time to teach me its systems, but seriously, an hour tops. If I find absolutely no enjoyment in an hour, it's not worth it.

And that's fair. If an hour in the game's mechanics haven't developed, or the story hasn't started going somewhere, it's fine to step away. We don't all have time to let things grow on us, but because of that, we often miss out on greatness.

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Me either, and I played a little.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, December 11, 2015, 03:57 (3068 days ago) @ Korny

I dunno. Playing a game for such a short amount of time, and passing judgement on that is a pretty lame thing to do. I try to play a game as long as I can before I decide for sure that I don't like it, since you have to get used to the game, and the ways in which it differs from your comfort zones. Especially in this day and age of progression systems, where games take a while to pick up and open up for players.


I actually pretty strongly disagree with this. I get where you're coming from, and I don't disagree that it's possible to miss out on great experiences by giving up too soon, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to give games extended periods to hook me.


That's really unfortunate, but it's a reality for many folks.


If it takes thirty minutes or more for your game to become fun, you designed it wrong.


No, it's about pacing, and not overwhelming the player.
The "big reveal" in Bioshock? It's at the halfway point of the game. The story doesn't center around it.
The Last of Us? It's two hours into the game before you see your first Clicker.
Mass Effect, Gone Home, Borderlands, Tomb Raider, Journey, Shadow of the Colossus; all landmark games, many of them masterpieces, and all of them have very slow starts.
Heck, the fantastic Assassin's Creed 2 starts you out as a baby, and takes a while before you see your first wrist-blade (Abstergo escape notwithstanding).
Imagine if you hopped into a game, and they threw all of the freedom, mechanics, and complexities at you the minute you hit the ground? Warframe did that, and people complained about its ridiculously steep learning curve (they have since added an extended tutorial quest). Developers just can't win.

I'm not really saying they should just start you with everything. But those games were arguably still fun without every single ability or mechanic in play. Assassin's Creed 2 still has the free running before you get to other mechanics. The Last of Us introduces new elements as time goes, but the basic gameplay doesn't change drastically. Mass Effect throws you straight into the shooting action immediately. Halo doesn't even you give you grenades until the end of the first level, but it's still damn fun without them.

It's like when I tried to watch Breaking Bad and found it incredibly boring. Everyone told me, "Oh but it really gets good in season 2!" Screw that. I'm not giving a show an entire season to catch my interest.


And you seriously missed out. Breaking Bad is one of those few shows that only got better and better, and ended on its own terms with a very satisfying conclusion.

I don't doubt that at all. I gave it three or four episodes and I was bored. Maybe I would enjoy it if I watched it longer, but after three hours, I deemed it a lost cause and a waste of my time.

I think it's unfair to ask developers (and showrunners) to cater to the give-me-now audience. They have Michael Bay movies for that (not that I'm limping you into that category of consumer). Sometimes things take time. Others, like Gears of War and Call of Duty, throw you into the fray faster, but good storytelling takes time, and good games sometimes need to establish the world that you're in before unleashing you into it.

I do too, but they do need to remember that first impressions do mean a great deal to many people. You have to give me something to work with. If you can't teach your mechanics pretty quickly, maybe you need to reevaluate your game's systems and see how important they all are. Some games do have a lot of complex mechanics and are better for it. Some are needlessly complex and suffer for it. If it's going to take three hours to prove that it needs and benefits from that complexity, you've probably lost me as a consumer, because I very likely won't make it that far. Every mechanic needs to be fun, I think, that way the experience isn't only enjoyable once they're all in play.

Granted, I do try to give games a bit of time to teach me its systems, but seriously, an hour tops. If I find absolutely no enjoyment in an hour, it's not worth it.


And that's fair. If an hour in the game's mechanics haven't developed, or the story hasn't started going somewhere, it's fine to step away. We don't all have time to let things grow on us, but because of that, we often miss out on greatness.

And I do recognize that. But that's a price I'm willing to pay. I have better things to do than play a game I'm not currently having fun with. I'm sure I missed a lot of good games over the years because of it. I'm okay with that. Because I've also wasted a lot of time playing shit games, hoping they would get better, or that I'd see what everyone else was seeing.

The Dark Souks example is perfect. I personally loved it, but I sure wouldn't have given it five hours of I hadn't loved it. The opening did suck a lot, insofar as its not fun. But it quickly teaches you the base mechanics then let's you go, and let's you figure out the high level mechanics on your own.

Morrowind comes to mind as well. It throws you into the world and the game very quickly and explained absolutely nothing. This worked extremely well for me, and is one of the large reasons I fell in love with it. It also turned off every one of my then friends that I tried to get to play it.

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Me either, and I played a little.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, December 11, 2015, 17:12 (3067 days ago) @ Korny


It's like when I tried to watch Breaking Bad and found it incredibly boring. Everyone told me, "Oh but it really gets good in season 2!" Screw that. I'm not giving a show an entire season to catch my interest.


And you seriously missed out. Breaking Bad is one of those few shows that only got better and better, and ended on its own terms with a very satisfying conclusion.

Very true. It's a long arc, and three hours is barely starting up the incline. I didn't love the first season. I think it was the weakest. There are some pivotal episodes in the second season where you realize what the show is capable of. It really did become better.

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