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THAB 02/11/2016 (Destiny)

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:39 (3026 days ago)
edited by CyberKN, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:43

https://www.bungie.net/7_This-Week-At-Bungie--02112016/en/News/News?aid=44353

  • Update in spring will feature new PvE "Challenges", as well as Light Level increase.
  • "Large" expansion expected later this year.
  • "Full Destiny Sequel" in 2017
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What’s a THAB?

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:43 (3026 days ago) @ CyberKN

;)

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It's just this thing, ya know?

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:44 (3026 days ago) @ Beorn

- No text -

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It's an acronym, duh.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:52 (3026 days ago) @ Beorn

- No text -

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you zany kids!

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:53 (3026 days ago) @ Xenos

meaning what?!

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you zany kids!

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:58 (3026 days ago) @ Kermit

meaning what?!

Tabs Handled After Bungie, obviously

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you zany kids!

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:59 (3026 days ago) @ ZackDark

After all the complaining they receive I would have thought it would be "This Hell at Bungie"

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you zany kids!

by breitzen @, Kansas, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 20:16 (3026 days ago) @ ZackDark

Titans, Hunters And... Bears?

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you zany kids!

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 19:59 (3026 days ago) @ Kermit

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THAB 02/11/2016

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 20:27 (3026 days ago) @ CyberKN

[*]Update in spring will feature new PvE "Challenges", as well as Light Level increase.

Yes, because raid challenges were so good and awesome. Not.

[*]"Large" expansion expected later this year.
[*]"Full Destiny Sequel" in 2017

Good news. See you all later in the year!

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THAB 02/11/2016

by breitzen @, Kansas, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 20:32 (3026 days ago) @ Cody Miller

[*]Update in spring will feature new PvE "Challenges", as well as Light Level increase.


Yes, because raid challenges were so good and awesome. Not.

Just because it's the same word they used before doesn't mean it's the same thing. I would doubt it's more "raid challenges" based on negitive feedback they got. Better to wait and see than assume the worst! :)

[*]"Large" expansion expected later this year.
[*]"Full Destiny Sequel" in 2017


Good news. See you all later in the year!

Super excited for another large expansion!

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I don't wanna grow up.

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 22:45 (3026 days ago) @ breitzen

Super excited for another large expansion!

TWSS

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lol

by breitzen @, Kansas, Friday, February 12, 2016, 01:01 (3026 days ago) @ Vortech

- No text -

I'm going to complain in this post

by petetheduck, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 21:21 (3026 days ago) @ CyberKN

"A significant Light increase, a bunch of new gear to earn and equip, and new challenges for PvE players seeking some more fun experiences and replayability."

Let's break this down..

"A significant Light increase" - An arbitrary increase in a stat that Bungie uses to give the illusion that there is more content than there actually is by forcing players to repeat content over and over again.

"a bunch of new gear to earn and equip" - More weapons and armor just for the sake of more weapons and armor. These weapons will tend to be worse than the original weapons that were in the game and you probably won't be able to acquire most of them anyway because acquisition will be tied to RNG. This is another way Bungie tries to stretch out limited content.

"and new challenges for PvE players seeking some more fun experiences and replayability." - Content! Given the previous two sentences, I'm concerned what Bungie considers "replayability" - so far, they haven't given us anything that lasts for PvE. Their last attempt at this was Prison of Elders, which really didn't deliver.

I'll be excited when Bungie drops the treadmill act and gives us custom games and Grognok. In the mean time, I guess I'll suffer through this future expansion, because everyone knows I'll be playing it and will probably enjoy it despite Bungie's best efforts.

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I just had a horrible thought.

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Thursday, February 11, 2016, 21:43 (3026 days ago) @ petetheduck

I'll be excited when Bungie drops the treadmill act and gives us custom games and Grognok. In the mean time, I guess I'll suffer through this future expansion, because everyone knows I'll be playing it and will probably enjoy it despite Bungie's best efforts.

I just had a horrible thought concerning custom games & forge. Perhaps Bungie hasn't/won't allow them because doing so would interfere with their ability to give us the carrot of timed / bungie customized PvP events. Perhaps it's not a technical reason, perhaps it's all about player investment, and that sucks.

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I just had a horrible thought.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 21:59 (3026 days ago) @ dogcow

I'll be excited when Bungie drops the treadmill act and gives us custom games and Grognok. In the mean time, I guess I'll suffer through this future expansion, because everyone knows I'll be playing it and will probably enjoy it despite Bungie's best efforts.


I just had a horrible thought concerning custom games & forge. Perhaps Bungie hasn't/won't allow them because doing so would interfere with their ability to give us the carrot of timed / bungie customized PvP events. Perhaps it's not a technical reason, perhaps it's all about player investment, and that sucks.

I doubt that's the case... If nothing else, that logic goes against the tried and true formula of micro-transaction based success (as far as I understand it). Even if Bungie's motivations were 100% purely profit driven, it would make sense to keep as many people playing as possible, however possible. An active and dedicated player base is way more likely to drop steady money on silly little in-game purchases (like emotes). Plus those players would still spend money on major expansions whenever Bungie releases them.

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I hope you're right. :)

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Thursday, February 11, 2016, 22:17 (3026 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

- No text -

I just had a horrible thought.

by petetheduck, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 22:46 (3026 days ago) @ dogcow

I'll be excited when Bungie drops the treadmill act and gives us custom games and Grognok. In the mean time, I guess I'll suffer through this future expansion, because everyone knows I'll be playing it and will probably enjoy it despite Bungie's best efforts.


I just had a horrible thought concerning custom games & forge. Perhaps Bungie hasn't/won't allow them because doing so would interfere with their ability to give us the carrot of timed / bungie customized PvP events. Perhaps it's not a technical reason, perhaps it's all about player investment, and that sucks.

I think the best reason Bungie could give for not providing custom games at the moment is that as soon as they do, people will organize tournaments. If Destiny isn't ready for competitive play, due to issues like weapon balance, then those tournaments will eventually fail.. and when those balance problems are eventually fixed, it will be hard to regain the momentum and excitement to get Destiny on the competitive scene again.

If I wanted Destiny to succeed as a competitive game that features tournaments and the like, I would hold back custom games until I was confident it was ready. Bungie really still doesn't know what it is doing with Destiny.

But yes, like you said, Bungie isn't telling us that Destiny should be played because it is fun. They are telling us to play it for loot and progression. And custom games and Forge are at odds with Destiny's design.

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Friday, February 12, 2016, 00:04 (3026 days ago) @ petetheduck

I'll be excited when Bungie drops the treadmill act and gives us custom games and Grognok. In the mean time, I guess I'll suffer through this future expansion, because everyone knows I'll be playing it and will probably enjoy it despite Bungie's best efforts.


I just had a horrible thought concerning custom games & forge. Perhaps Bungie hasn't/won't allow them because doing so would interfere with their ability to give us the carrot of timed / bungie customized PvP events. Perhaps it's not a technical reason, perhaps it's all about player investment, and that sucks.


I think the best reason Bungie could give for not providing custom games at the moment is that as soon as they do, people will organize tournaments. If Destiny isn't ready for competitive play, due to issues like weapon balance, then those tournaments will eventually fail.. and when those balance problems are eventually fixed, it will be hard to regain the momentum and excitement to get Destiny on the competitive scene again.

If I wanted Destiny to succeed as a competitive game that features tournaments and the like, I would hold back custom games until I was confident it was ready. Bungie really still doesn't know what it is doing with Destiny.

I disagree that this would be the reason there are no custom games.

I've posted about it before, but basically I can't see Destiny having competitive play like that because they would have to strip SO MUCH out of armor and weapons and classes to make it viable.

There are so many variables.

For it to work in my mind, you'd have to have something like this:

  • Introduce a set of armor with -zero- perks or the exact same perks regardless of class.
  • Or let people wear whatever armor they want but strip the perks and normalize the stats across the board.
  • Introduce a set of weapons with -zero- perks that are the same, and all players start with them (A BR is a BR for example. Your shotgun can't be different than mine, it must behave EXACTLY the same)
  • Or maybe offer choice (one standard HC, SR, PR AR or SG, SR, FR) to choose from, but one model each.
  • Disable all class abilities and perks. No hunters get 3 jumps, no titans shoulder charge etc unless you're somehow forcing people to only play against the class they are
  • Better remove grenades or somehow make those the same with some 4th type only for this playlist
  • Need more symmetrical arena maps. A few asymmetrical maps are ok (think lockout) but need to be balanced by....... idk

At that point Destiny isn't really Destiny anymore.

Theoretically, you could possibly make these "MLG" weapons and armor stats separate and unaffected by changes to the general sandbox when they nerf shotguns for the 999th time, but would this be a playlist that comes around every so often, or is it there all the time?


To be competitive, Destiny would need to be SuperSmashBros-Final Destination map-Fox only.

Which is boring. But then again, Smash does have custom games soooooooo...

......

Fuck.

But yes, like you said, Bungie isn't telling us that Destiny should be played because it is fun. They are telling us to play it for loot and progression. And custom games and Forge are at odds with Destiny's design.

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Friday, February 12, 2016, 17:23 (3025 days ago) @ Revenant1988
edited by General Vagueness, Friday, February 12, 2016, 17:27

I disagree that this would be the reason there are no custom games.

[snip]

At that point Destiny isn't really Destiny anymore.

You said it better than I could.

Theoretically, you could possibly make these "MLG" weapons and armor stats separate and unaffected by changes to the general sandbox when they nerf shotguns for the 999th time, but would this be a playlist that comes around every so often, or is it there all the time?


To be competitive, Destiny would need to be SuperSmashBros-Final Destination map-Fox only.

Which is boring.

I think maybe they could do something like that and have it be a different kind of fun, in the same way that Halo or other shooters are a different kind of fun. I especially think there's a lot to the suggestion of having everyone on the same class, maybe the same subclass too. Maybe they could disable exotics, but some of the Vault of Glass armor and even some old blue-tier armor are still pretty strong without leveled damage, and I think turning that on makes things more unbalanced and less fair because it's down to RNG, although probably less now with how the current hard mode raid is.

But then again, Smash does have custom games soooooooo...

......

Fuck.

yeah

[image]

Just checking that last box would mean a guaranteed purchase from me, and it's the only thing I can think of that would do that.

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Friday, February 12, 2016, 17:46 (3025 days ago) @ Revenant1988

What about instead of having specific weapons for the MLG style playlist they just override the stats of all weapons. So you have a balanced pulse rifle that has the same RoF, Magazine, etc.. no matter the archetype. This way you your currently equipped weapon becomes the skin for the MLG pulse rifle. I'd hate having to worry about storing yet another weapon in my vault just for ranked playlists. Same could go for armor stats. Just normalize stats acrossed all pieces and make your current armor vanity only. Also, eliminate supers all together, get rid of radar, etc.... try to keep some stuff fun, but make it about skill instead of whatever currently is the best option.

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, February 13, 2016, 17:08 (3024 days ago) @ unoudid

Also, eliminate supers all together,

I don't care what anyone says or how much they whine, supers are not simple guaranteed kills and it can be very hard to maximize how many kills you get with them

get rid of radar,

no, it's borderline useless as it is, and the game was designed with it in mind

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by Kahzgul, Monday, February 15, 2016, 15:26 (3022 days ago) @ General Vagueness

Also, eliminate supers all together,


I don't care what anyone says or how much they whine, supers are not simple guaranteed kills and it can be very hard to maximize how many kills you get with them

get rid of radar,


no, it's borderline useless as it is, and the game was designed with it in mind

You must not PvP much. The radar game is half of PvP. Where are they, how many blips do you have, oh shit they went invis, okay I found the guy... Radar is HUGE in this game.

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Monday, February 15, 2016, 19:18 (3022 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Also, eliminate supers all together,


I don't care what anyone says or how much they whine, supers are not simple guaranteed kills and it can be very hard to maximize how many kills you get with them

get rid of radar,


no, it's borderline useless as it is, and the game was designed with it in mind


You must not PvP much. The radar game is half of PvP. Where are they, how many blips do you have, oh shit they went invis, okay I found the guy... Radar is HUGE in this game.

did you miss the second half of what I said? the game was designed with it in mind
how many blips? 90% of the time it's either one section or two sections, which only tells you vague direction
I still think it's a travesty how it does nothing at close range even with the upgraded radar, it's ridiculous to have people chasing each other in a circle or just moving around randomly because they know someone's there but they can't see each other

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Monday, February 15, 2016, 20:20 (3022 days ago) @ General Vagueness

did you miss the second half of what I said? the game was designed with it in mind
how many blips? 90% of the time it's either one section or two sections, which only tells you vague direction
I still think it's a travesty how it does nothing at close range even with the upgraded radar, it's ridiculous to have people chasing each other in a circle or just moving around randomly because they know someone's there but they can't see each other

I wouldn't say it's worthless at all. you get directional awareness + proximity + level awareness. When you combine this with general map knowledge it's pretty easy to know where someone is at. you don't get pinpoint accuracy, but it's HUGE for PvP. Take that away with like in the Inferno playlists and you end up getting much harder games. Almost every PvP primary I use has third eye for a reason.

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Destiny MLG? I don't think it can happen

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Tuesday, February 16, 2016, 22:20 (3021 days ago) @ unoudid

I wouldn't say it's worthless at all. you get directional awareness + proximity + level awareness.

you get basically the minimum possible level of each of those

When you combine this with general map knowledge it's pretty easy to know where someone is at. you don't get pinpoint accuracy, but it's HUGE for PvP.

again, the game is designed around it, it has a use, that does not mean it's extremely useful
the enhanced version is noticeably better, but still kind of weak

Take that away with like in the Inferno playlists and you end up getting much harder games. Almost every PvP primary I use has third eye for a reason.

I said in the first place that it shouldn't be taken away

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I just had a horrible thought.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:04 (3026 days ago) @ dogcow

I'll be excited when Bungie drops the treadmill act and gives us custom games and Grognok. In the mean time, I guess I'll suffer through this future expansion, because everyone knows I'll be playing it and will probably enjoy it despite Bungie's best efforts.


I just had a horrible thought concerning custom games & forge. Perhaps Bungie hasn't/won't allow them because doing so would interfere with their ability to give us the carrot of timed / bungie customized PvP events. Perhaps it's not a technical reason, perhaps it's all about player investment, and that sucks.

Custom games and films are features that Destiny 2 really should have. There are expectations at this point from basically every other FPS game out there which have both.

I just had a horrible thought.

by petetheduck, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:06 (3026 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I'll be excited when Bungie drops the treadmill act and gives us custom games and Grognok. In the mean time, I guess I'll suffer through this future expansion, because everyone knows I'll be playing it and will probably enjoy it despite Bungie's best efforts.


I just had a horrible thought concerning custom games & forge. Perhaps Bungie hasn't/won't allow them because doing so would interfere with their ability to give us the carrot of timed / bungie customized PvP events. Perhaps it's not a technical reason, perhaps it's all about player investment, and that sucks.


Custom games and films are features that Destiny 2 really should have. There are expectations at this point from basically every other FPS game out there which have both.

Not to mention Bungie's previous game..

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:19 (3026 days ago) @ petetheduck

Custom games and films are features that Destiny 2 really should have. There are expectations at this point from basically every other FPS game out there which have both.


Not to mention Bungie's previous game..

I'm not saying this in a "booo Destiny" way, just wondering if even the biggest Halo fans didn't really appreciate how good we had it with Reach at the time. Here we are over 5 years later and no game has even come close to matching the range and quality of custom/creation tools, gameplay modes, etc. Things have clearly moved forward in some ways. H5 forge mode has some more advanced tools than Reach had... but they come at the cost of split screen play (making machining like playtime wouldn't be possible in Halo 5 without involving way more people).
This goes back to that "concentrated coolness" factor I was ranting about last week. Reach was technically a smaller game than many AAA titles to come out since... but it feels bigger than any of them because every single feature added SO MUCH to the breadth and longevity of the game.

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Reach is the culmination of the Halo series

by Durandal, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:26 (3026 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

From a technical standpoint, Reach's development was mostly done. Bungie really could focus on tool, asset and gameplay polish, and it showed. Few other developers have the longevity with a series to focus on it that intently. I guess COD could do it, but even with the two studios and the extra development time they seem to put very little effort into it, almost like it's just a paint by numbers experience with whatever they can steal from other competing games.

On the plus side, if Bungie gets their way and can do the 10 year plan, Destiny 3 will be one heck of a game.

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Reach is the culmination of the Halo series

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, February 12, 2016, 03:41 (3025 days ago) @ Durandal

From a technical standpoint, Reach's development was mostly done. Bungie really could focus on tool, asset and gameplay polish, and it showed. Few other developers have the longevity with a series to focus on it that intently. I guess COD could do it, but even with the two studios and the extra development time they seem to put very little effort into it, almost like it's just a paint by numbers experience with whatever they can steal from other competing games.

Three studios now, and you take that back!
Treyarch knocked it out of the park with Black Ops 3. Besides fitting five games in one, they delivered one of the most in-depth theater modes in any game, and a massive amount of customization tools... That's why other games that cook longer (Destiny, Halo 5) frustrate me, since they lack tons of features that a studio with less time can put out (and on their first current-gen effort, no less).

On the plus side, if Bungie gets their way and can do the 10 year plan, Destiny 3 will be one heck of a game.

I've said the same about Halo 6 since Halo 4 launched. Though honestly you could say the same about most studios and franchises...

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5?

by Durandal, Friday, February 12, 2016, 10:37 (3025 days ago) @ Korny

Zombies, Campaign, Campaign with zombies, PVP? What am I missing?

I really don't see much more then an evolution in the COD series. They always add in a bit from other big PVP titles, so it was inevitable they would add super abilitys (several very similar to Destiny's) and movement modes (from Titanfall).

I find the PVP to be just as filled with lag, weapons balance issues and wonky hit detection as anything in Destiny, and then you add in the killstreaks which are supposed to turn near contests into overwhelming lopsided matches and you have a recipe for frustration.

Judged against other COD games it's great, against Destiny it's a long slog grind with ugly skins, a terrible community, and even less variety.

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5?

by Kahzgul, Monday, February 15, 2016, 15:34 (3022 days ago) @ Durandal

Zombies, Campaign, Campaign with zombies, PVP? What am I missing?

I'm a CoD fanboy and I'm not sure what the 5 modes would be either.


I really don't see much more then an evolution in the COD series. They always add in a bit from other big PVP titles, so it was inevitable they would add super abilitys (several very similar to Destiny's) and movement modes (from Titanfall).

Pretty much every CoD is written from scratch, though they obviously have a feature set they like to keep and evolve (I know this because I worked for Treyarch back in the day). It's really not too different from Halo --> Destiny.


I find the PVP to be just as filled with lag, weapons balance issues and wonky hit detection as anything in Destiny, and then you add in the killstreaks which are supposed to turn near contests into overwhelming lopsided matches and you have a recipe for frustration.

Man, I have to disagree here. My CoD pvp experience is worlds better than Destiny. When I shoot someone, they die. When I get killed, I know who killed me and what my mistake was. Every time. And you can't earn killstreaks in a near contest, because if you die, your counter resets.

Judged against other COD games it's great, against Destiny it's a long slog grind with ugly skins, a terrible community, and even less variety.

I'm with you until the variety part. CoD chat is like Barrens chat. It's awful and I always turn it off first thing. But the game has huge variety. Also, because every player has access to every weapon and mod for those weapons, it's a completely open playing field and fundamentally fair. If X is the best class, then you can just play as X. Is Y the best gun? No sweat, unlock Y next. Fair! Destiny is... the opposite of that. I know precious few people with "perfect" rolls on even a single weapon, let alone a full loadout. Let alone a full loadout at 320 light. With armor that has the right perks and stats. And those little changes make all the difference sometimes.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:27 (3026 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Interesting thoughts on Reach...

It is mostly true, even 343 hasn't really matched the greatness that was campaign theater and clips.

I will say that Halo 5 forge is better than the forges that came before it, no contest.

I'm waiting for improvement in Destiny's story department. That's the only thing I'm coming back for in Destiny 2. I'll skip the spring expansion.

Destiny isn't a sandbox game to me and for as open and big as it is, still feels very linear.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:39 (3026 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Custom games and films are features that Destiny 2 really should have. There are expectations at this point from basically every other FPS game out there which have both.


Not to mention Bungie's previous game..


I'm not saying this in a "booo Destiny" way, just wondering if even the biggest Halo fans didn't really appreciate how good we had it with Reach at the time.

I certainly appreciated it at the time, and still do.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:44 (3026 days ago) @ Kermit

Custom games and films are features that Destiny 2 really should have. There are expectations at this point from basically every other FPS game out there which have both.


Not to mention Bungie's previous game..


I'm not saying this in a "booo Destiny" way, just wondering if even the biggest Halo fans didn't really appreciate how good we had it with Reach at the time.


I certainly appreciated it at the time, and still do.

So did/do I... But I guess I thought "this is the best one yet... I can't wait to see all the stuff they add to the next one!"

I also thought things like "these features are so awesome, 5 years from now every game will have them!".

So I appreciated in terms of how much I loved the game, but I guess I underestimated how difficult it would be to match Reach down the road. It offered a "total package" in a way that I haven't seen since.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:46 (3026 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Custom games and films are features that Destiny 2 really should have. There are expectations at this point from basically every other FPS game out there which have both.


Not to mention Bungie's previous game..


I'm not saying this in a "booo Destiny" way, just wondering if even the biggest Halo fans didn't really appreciate how good we had it with Reach at the time.


I certainly appreciated it at the time, and still do.


So did/do I... But I guess I thought "this is the best one yet... I can't wait to see all the stuff they add to the next one!"

I also thought things like "these features are so awesome, 5 years from now every game will have them!".

So I appreciated in terms of how much I loved the game, but I guess I underestimated how difficult it would be to match Reach down the road. It offered a "total package" in a way that I haven't seen since.

I see your point. I thought it was awesome and amazing, but I didn't think we won't see the likes of this again. No campaign films is still my biggest disappointment of the 343 era.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:57 (3026 days ago) @ Kermit

Custom games and films are features that Destiny 2 really should have. There are expectations at this point from basically every other FPS game out there which have both.


Not to mention Bungie's previous game..


I'm not saying this in a "booo Destiny" way, just wondering if even the biggest Halo fans didn't really appreciate how good we had it with Reach at the time.


I certainly appreciated it at the time, and still do.


So did/do I... But I guess I thought "this is the best one yet... I can't wait to see all the stuff they add to the next one!"

I also thought things like "these features are so awesome, 5 years from now every game will have them!".

So I appreciated in terms of how much I loved the game, but I guess I underestimated how difficult it would be to match Reach down the road. It offered a "total package" in a way that I haven't seen since.


I see your point. I thought it was awesome and amazing, but I didn't think we won't see the likes of this again. No campaign films is still my biggest disappointment of the 343 era.

Yeah, that's a big one. There are a few others that stand out to me as well; fewer custom game settings, no BTB at launch (Halo 5), etc. Not to mention the more subjective stuff. And yet Halo 5 still has way more to offer in terms of features than most games these days.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 12, 2016, 17:18 (3025 days ago) @ Kermit

I see your point. I thought it was awesome and amazing, but I didn't think we won't see the likes of this again. No campaign films is still my biggest disappointment of the 343 era.

It didn't have to be that way. I hear that there were no campaign films in Halo 4 because 343 "cheated" with the geometry such that not everything you see was real. To have a camera you could then detach and put wherever you want would ruin the illusion. Think forced perspective in the LotR movies. Frodo looks small, but only because the camera is in a very specific place.

The cheats were done for performance reasons. So you get to pick between better graphics, and campaign films. 343 thought one would sell more games than the other.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, February 12, 2016, 17:28 (3025 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I see your point. I thought it was awesome and amazing, but I didn't think we won't see the likes of this again. No campaign films is still my biggest disappointment of the 343 era.


It didn't have to be that way. I hear that there were no campaign films in Halo 4 because 343 "cheated" with the geometry such that not everything you see was real. To have a camera you could then detach and put wherever you want would ruin the illusion. Think forced perspective in the LotR movies. Frodo looks small, but only because the camera is in a very specific place.

The cheats were done for performance reasons. So you get to pick between better graphics, and campaign films. 343 thought one would sell more games than the other.

I was wondering if that had something to do with it. During my playthrough of Halo 5, I slowly came to the realization that very impressive visual presentation was just barely holding together. Every now and then I'd get blown off a cliff or fall somewhere I wasn't supposed to, and the illusion of the world would break instantly. There are barely-textured surfaces and geometry that just "ends" all over the place. You just don't see any of it from the intended player perspective. Step just slightly outside of that perspective, and it's like you're backstage on a movie set.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Friday, February 12, 2016, 17:45 (3025 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Step just slightly outside of that perspective, and it's like you're backstage on a movie set.

that would be an awesome Easter egg: Get out of the geometry and see mountains and forerunner structures being held up by 2 x 4's.

[image]

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, February 12, 2016, 18:34 (3025 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

You're not wrong, but I don't really understand how this came to be perceived as a bad thing.

If they player won't see it, why bother with it? I think it sucks that this could be the cause of not getting campaign theater, why not just prevent the camera from moving anywhere that the player wouldn't be able to get to? Constrain the camera to the same area as the player.

I'm also not sure why 343i would be concerned about being able to see those breaks in Theater. Bungie certainly didn't seem to care that much.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Friday, February 12, 2016, 22:27 (3025 days ago) @ cheapLEY

You're not wrong, but I don't really understand how this came to be perceived as a bad thing.

If they player won't see it, why bother with it? I think it sucks that this could be the cause of not getting campaign theater, why not just prevent the camera from moving anywhere that the player wouldn't be able to get to? Constrain the camera to the same area as the player.

That's traditionally how the camera in theater mode works... it is contained by the same boundaries that contain the player. The difference is gravity: There are spaces in the Halo environments that a player wouldn't normally be able to reach because they can't hover in air, but a camera can. In a game like Halo (with such lively physics) part of the fun having a huge explosion launch Master Chief a hundred feet into the air, or off a cliff, etc. You don't want Chief to get launched and then hit an invisible wall 10 feet above the floor. In those moments you get a brief glimpse of the environment from angles that you won't normally be looking from. In previous Halo games, this would sometimes reveal a little less detail in areas that the player isn't normally staring at, but overall the environments were pretty thoroughly rendered and detailed. But in Halo 5 I noticed plenty of gaps, untextured walls, or spaces where there is literally nothing. It's not a big problem at all, because you only see these things for a split second as you are hurtling towards your doom, but they're noticeable.


I'm also not sure why 343i would be concerned about being able to see those breaks in Theater. Bungie certainly didn't seem to care that much.

I suspect it is because the breaks are so much more severe in Halo 5 than they are in any of Bungie's Halo games... at least as far as I can tell. Again, I don't think it is a big deal, but it does break the immersion a little bit when you're running around a city suspended above the ocean and you know that there is actually nothing at all on the other side of the walls that surround you.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by cheapLEY @, Friday, February 12, 2016, 22:51 (3025 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I suspect it is because the breaks are so much more severe in Halo 5 than they are in any of Bungie's Halo games... at least as far as I can tell. Again, I don't think it is a big deal, but it does break the immersion a little bit when you're running around a city suspended above the ocean and you know that there is actually nothing at all on the other side of the walls that surround you.

I suppose that's fair, but I still feel like there could have been some compromise that involves not just ditching a fan-loved feature that was in 3 out of 5 of Bungie's Halo games. I was a staunch supported of 343i around here during H5's launch, and I still am, but the lack of campaign theater is, in my mind, a huge mark against them, and it could be argued that it shows that they don't completely understand Halo's audience. Even I can't pretend that they haven't lost a significant percentage of the old hardcore Halo fanbase, and the lack of campaign theater (and the lack of Forge and BTB at launch, the lack of a bunch of old multiplayer game modes, etc.) contributes to that.

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5+ years later, Reach still stands as an unmatchable bar?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, February 12, 2016, 23:02 (3025 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Even I can't pretend that they haven't lost a significant percentage of the old hardcore Halo fanbase, and the lack of campaign theater (and the lack of Forge and BTB at launch, the lack of a bunch of old multiplayer game modes, etc.) contributes to that.

I think you are overstating the importance of campaign theatre. The real reason so many of us old hardcore Halo fans are gone is simply that the new games have stupid stories, and haven't really moved forward in any meaningful way mechanically. Halo 5 is pretty much the same game as Halo 2. There just aren't many variations of the Halo formula that haven't been done before.

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THAB 02/11/2016

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 21:36 (3026 days ago) @ CyberKN
edited by General Vagueness, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 21:39

not the slightest bit hyped until they list features and price points, this DLC better not be $40 and include all the other ones again, especially after the microtransactions

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THAB 02/11/2016

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 21:37 (3026 days ago) @ General Vagueness

They are just creating hype for the investors ;)

Hopefully we'll get more details soonish.

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THAB 02/11/2016

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 23:08 (3026 days ago) @ General Vagueness

not the slightest bit hyped until they list features and price points, this DLC better not be $40 and include all the other ones again, especially after the microtransactions

I would wager that's exactly what's going to happen. Microtransactions were a ruse. We didn't get shit with that money.

+1

by Avateur @, Friday, February 12, 2016, 01:52 (3026 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Crimson Doubles is beyond worthless. The framerate drop in the Tower is impressive, the fact that the bounties for it show up once as opposed to daily is impressive, and the non-existent Ghost drop rate is impressive. I'm thinking Pete will be spot on with the content drop in the next few months in that it will most likely be garbage.

My sights are set on the expansion later this year. Now that's where the good stuff is gonna be! :D

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I'm just proud that THAB survived to a second week. :)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 21:56 (3026 days ago) @ CyberKN

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THABulous!

by Pyromancy @, discovering fire every week, Friday, February 12, 2016, 01:33 (3026 days ago) @ CyberKN

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