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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone? (Destiny)

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Monday, August 29, 2016, 15:15 (2829 days ago)

This is a minor complaint wrapped in an honest question about the current state of the crucible.

This question comes from the fact that I remember playing crucible lone wolf in year one and actually having a great time. Games felt fair overall even though the advantage was always to a coordinated team.

I played quite a bit of matchmaking this weekend both on teams and running solo. What really stuck out to me was the fact that when I ran with a team I tended to have very fair matches overall. Of course there were a few times when we got completely smashed. One time we got matched against a team of 3 in salvage/skirmish where the best person was a top 100 player on guardian.gg and no matter what I did I could not kill them.

Things changed though when I ran solo. It seemed that I would get dropped into matches where the players on the other teams were all vastly better than me. This happened enough the point where I was so frustrated that I was about to launch a controller through my monitor. At that point I turned the xbox off for awhile and took a break.

Now the real question comes into how does Bungie balance between playing in groups and playing solo?

For example, If I have an ELO of 1100 but typically run in groups where people are ELO 1300+, when I go play solo, does that run of playing with great players affect my matchmaking when running alone? Basically, if you are getting carried, does that screw you over?

It seems that once year 2 SBMM came along that nearly all matches have turned into a complete sweatfest. I actually miss the days of ranked and unranked matches in Halo. At least I knew what I was getting into when playing in the ranked lobbies.

Also, join in progress still sucks when playing solo. There's nothing like getting dropped into 6 straight losing matches when trying to play 3v3 playlists to work on grimoire.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, August 29, 2016, 15:50 (2829 days ago) @ unoudid

I do, but that's because every now and then it's fun to be the star of a crucible match. I'm never a standout when I play with people here.

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by naturl selexion, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:25 (2828 days ago) @ Kermit

When I play crucible, which is not often, I am generally playing with my sons. Each of which is much better than me, one of them better than just about anyone. It feels like when I play solo, I am still matched up with the caliber of opponents at my sons' level, not mine.

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Argent_17, Wednesday, August 31, 2016, 15:31 (2827 days ago) @ Kermit

I can play with the kovostov next time :D

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Wednesday, August 31, 2016, 15:36 (2827 days ago) @ Argent_17

Might as well, you can't get any worse ;p <3

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Argent_17, Thursday, September 01, 2016, 21:03 (2825 days ago) @ someotherguy

You're still alive? :D

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Well, I don't stray away from 6v6 playlists, but yes

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, August 29, 2016, 15:53 (2829 days ago) @ unoudid

- No text -

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, August 29, 2016, 16:04 (2829 days ago) @ unoudid

Most of the time, I do. Fairness of matches can vary quite a bit but I'm trying to focus more on personally doing well and ignoring the overall score. Even if I can't get above a 1.0, like when you Join in Progress to a game where the heavy just dropped and I end up dying several times in a row, I try and have a good time pulling off clever kills or beating an enemy when they have the advantage. I also try and remember that for every game where I do amazingly well and my team win by thousands of point... those are simply the kind of games that sometimes see my team losing by thousands of points and have me doing terrible.

But yes, Join In Progress could still use some sanity checking, in my opinion. My team won a decent victory last night, for instance, and I got whatever points and rep and drops were typical of a win but it felt kinda dumb because I was joined in late enough that I only had time to get two kills and zero deaths... I click the Launch button to play in the Crucible, not to pour over the results screens or watch my ship drift above some planet or other...

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A Typical Night

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 02:29 (2828 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Thinking a bit more about it, I usually manage to eek out fun with Randos, but they often make it pretty hard. It seems like either the games go really well, or I'm like the only one on my team to go positive. That feeling of doing well and learning the enemy's tactics and pulling ahead of them... while the Randos apparently try and Shoulder Charge straight down a Sniper lane all match is mildly frustrating.

Here's a typical night of Destiny for me:

[image]

Overall a 1.28 k/d (including that 0.00 in the lower left!) with 3 wins and 6 losses...Sure, it's nice that the losses probably weren't my fault, but sometimes you just gotta shake your head and hope to get matched with someone else.

In contrast, I'm more all over the place k/d wise and win v loss wise, but I think it's generally a lot more fun to be able to talk to people. That, and I felt that I had a whole lot of really good close games when playin' with you folks last time 'round. It also feels like we kinda take turns getting hot when playing together instead of it just being me vs the enemy vs my own team each and every game. Have people that can actually play helps a whole lot. :)

So, overall, while I can enjoy the Crucible solo, I'm always a bit sad that we only get a group together during Iron Banner cause playing with friends is more fun. :)

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 16:06 (2829 days ago) @ unoudid

Been enjoying this week's "Solo queue only" playlist. But have been playing Elimination for The Mountaintop and Ive been queued against sweaty teams (full ToO shaders/emblems etc) the whole way. Course, the meta is vasically "sweaty or bust" at the monent, which is the real problem.

I don't know if its the age of the game or a result of SBMM, but it's real hard to just play to have fun at the moment. Or rather relax and have fun. I can join in the sweat games and have some success, but I can't just switch on some PvP and de-stress any more. For a change I thought I'd snipe for a couple of games and it was brutal. God forbid you queue up Doubles or Rumble.

The other problem with SBMM is that if its working properly you cant actually tell if you're getting better or worse. It tries to trend towards a 1.0 KD and 50% win, which means you can't tell if you're a good 50% playing other good players, or a bad 50% playing other bad players. Thats not necessarily a dealbreaker, but Id like a general idea of if Im improving, getting worse or treading water.

Unranked playlists please Bungie. Id rather have bigger wins and bigger losses with a more reliable connection than what we have atm.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, August 29, 2016, 16:18 (2829 days ago) @ someotherguy

I don't know if its the age of the game or a result of SBMM, but it's real hard to just play to have fun at the moment. Or rather relax and have fun. I can join in the sweat games and have some success, but I can't just switch on some PvP and de-stress any more. For a change I thought I'd snipe for a couple of games and it was brutal. God forbid you queue up Doubles or Rumble.

So, here are a few questions I have: Is Destiny prioritizing skill over connection? Derek Carrol claimed Destiny would almost immediately slacken the skill requirements, but not the connection requirements. What exactly changed in Y2? Was skill not factored into Destiny MM at all in Y1? Has something changed since all the tears over sweaty games in early 2016 or have people just come to terms with it?

My recollection is I've had the most fun & done best while playing solo in Jan-April of this year, but I've gotten noticeably worse this summer and feel I'm letting my team down when playing in a fireteam.

I thought it changed with the Taken Spring update?

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 17:17 (2829 days ago) @ dogcow

Could be wrong though. Might have been TTK. I havent really enjoyed Y2 PvP as much, it all blurs into one.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:49 (2828 days ago) @ someotherguy
edited by Ragashingo, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:53

I was under the impression that Skill Based Matchmaking was effectively done away with some time ago. That the only time skill is considered at all is to prevent absolute newbies from getting railroaded by the YouTube elite. And even that small amount of protection was scaled back more recently to decrease matchmaking times for those in the highest end of the rankings.

Certainly, there was a krrfluffel a while back about SBMM and Bungie told us it went away, or have I missed something?

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, August 29, 2016, 16:06 (2829 days ago) @ unoudid

So, I would like to know more about how bungie handle match making & how skill factors into it. Especially before & after SBMM was factored into the equation in Y2. I know there's been much rage & salt over SBMM vs CBMM & which is currently prioritized & Derek Carrol's comments.

This much I know, I most certainly do BETTER when playing SOLO than I do when playing w/ other PS4 DBOers, and it seems I hit my peak performance in the between Jan & April of this year. I've just been doing absolutely terrible over the summer.

Pretty much only play solo

by electricpirate @, Monday, August 29, 2016, 16:47 (2829 days ago) @ unoudid

I pretty much only play solo, and so far I find it enjoyable. Even in IB. I tend to stick to less teamplay required gametypes though, mainly skirmish, control and clash.

I find the skill can whipsaw around, but it's overall far more fair than Y1. Y1 I would get constantly destrominated, but I'm generally right in the middle of the pack Y2.

FWIW, Bungie has said being in a group doesn't change matchmaking, other than that fact that a group of people from far away are all forced into the same game.

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Tangential thought

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:46 (2828 days ago) @ electricpirate

I tend to stick to less teamplay required gametypes though, mainly skirmish, control and clash.

I find it odd you stick Skirmish in here, which is played most effectively as a team. Give me two people who understand that revives add up to a lot of points and that attacking 2 vs 1 is better than 1 vs 1 and I'll demolish you in skirmish (barring that you're on the same skill level as me, and not amaze-balls good).

I also look at Control and even Clash as team games though I would agree that most other people probably don't think of these as team-heavy or team-necessary games.

I think most people would do much better, especially on Clash, if they focused on controlling an area of the map as a team. The two biggest reasons to control one area of the map and stick to it is to control where your teammates spawn into and where the safe zone to run is. A byproduct of this is controlling where the enemy can attack you, which gives you the advantage. That should be obvious.

In Clash, it is important not to needlessly die. If you are injured, and you can retreat or take cover, it helps to know for certain where the safe zone is. It also helps to drag enemies that are chasing you into the line of fire of your teammates. I do this constantly, it's quite effective.

However, most people play Clash just chasing each other in circles. Drives me nuts. Seriously, next time you play Clash, especially a match with a lot of shotgunners (I'm looking at all of you camoflauging bladedancers out there), you will see that both teams are more or less chasing each other in a circle around the map. If you stop moving in the circle, you immediately control who's coming at you and from where ( you just have to be cognizant of this and make a choice, preferrably as a team).

I find the biggest reason I die in Clash matches is that I have outlived all my teammates in an area without realizing they have all spawned else where and now I am surrounded/have no back up. It's one of my least favorite feelings.

I wish there was a good way to experiment with this though, but anything that requires coordination is difficult to achieve in the Crucible regardless of playing solo or as a team.

Anyways, my two cents about team games and how it relates to Clash.

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Tangential thought

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:50 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

I tend to stick to less teamplay required gametypes though, mainly skirmish, control and clash.


I find it odd you stick Skirmish in here, which is played most effectively as a team. Give me two people who understand that revives add up to a lot of points and that attacking 2 vs 1 is better than 1 vs 1 and I'll demolish you in skirmish (barring that you're on the same skill level as me, and not amaze-balls good).

I also look at Control and even Clash as team games though I would agree that most other people probably don't think of these as team-heavy or team-necessary games.

I think most people would do much better, especially on Clash, if they focused on controlling an area of the map as a team. The two biggest reasons to control one area of the map and stick to it is to control where your teammates spawn into and where the safe zone to run is. A byproduct of this is controlling where the enemy can attack you, which gives you the advantage. That should be obvious.

In Clash, it is important not to needlessly die. If you are injured, and you can retreat or take cover, it helps to know for certain where the safe zone is. It also helps to drag enemies that are chasing you into the line of fire of your teammates. I do this constantly, it's quite effective.

However, most people play Clash just chasing each other in circles. Drives me nuts. Seriously, next time you play Clash, especially a match with a lot of shotgunners (I'm looking at all of you camoflauging bladedancers out there), you will see that both teams are more or less chasing each other in a circle around the map. If you stop moving in the circle, you immediately control who's coming at you and from where ( you just have to be cognizant of this and make a choice, preferrably as a team).

I find the biggest reason I die in Clash matches is that I have outlived all my teammates in an area without realizing they have all spawned else where and now I am surrounded/have no back up. It's one of my least favorite feelings.

I wish there was a good way to experiment with this though, but anything that requires coordination is difficult to achieve in the Crucible regardless of playing solo or as a team.

Anyways, my two cents about team games and how it relates to Clash.

I was playing a Clash match on Bannerfall last week, and 6 times in a row (I made sure to count) I died because the enemy team spawned directly behind me and gunned me down with their greater numbers, which made me respawn on the opposite side of the map, then as soon as I moved forward the enemy spawned behind me, repeat for 3 minutes. It was infuriating, and it kept happening because everyone else on my time would instantly rush into the middle of the map and die.

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Tangential thought

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:56 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by BeardFade, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:12

Bannerfall is particularly bad because, for some reason, people can spawn on the back walls just 20m away from you. There's something different about the algorithm on that map (or more likely, the algorithm is the same, but the map is so long that it doesn't pick up that you're holding that particular area).

It's like anti-Pantheon

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:10 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

Where a WoL Defender with an LMG can set up shop inside your base and you'll still spawn there 8 times in a row.

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Claude Errera @, Monday, August 29, 2016, 16:49 (2829 days ago) @ unoudid

This is a minor complaint wrapped in an honest question about the current state of the crucible.

This question comes from the fact that I remember playing crucible lone wolf in year one and actually having a great time. Games felt fair overall even though the advantage was always to a coordinated team.

I played quite a bit of matchmaking this weekend both on teams and running solo. What really stuck out to me was the fact that when I ran with a team I tended to have very fair matches overall. Of course there were a few times when we got completely smashed. One time we got matched against a team of 3 in salvage/skirmish where the best person was a top 100 player on guardian.gg and no matter what I did I could not kill them.

Things changed though when I ran solo. It seemed that I would get dropped into matches where the players on the other teams were all vastly better than me. This happened enough the point where I was so frustrated that I was about to launch a controller through my monitor. At that point I turned the xbox off for awhile and took a break.

Now the real question comes into how does Bungie balance between playing in groups and playing solo?

For example, If I have an ELO of 1100 but typically run in groups where people are ELO 1300+, when I go play solo, does that run of playing with great players affect my matchmaking when running alone? Basically, if you are getting carried, does that screw you over?

It seems that once year 2 SBMM came along that nearly all matches have turned into a complete sweatfest. I actually miss the days of ranked and unranked matches in Halo. At least I knew what I was getting into when playing in the ranked lobbies.

Also, join in progress still sucks when playing solo. There's nothing like getting dropped into 6 straight losing matches when trying to play 3v3 playlists to work on grimoire.

I find that the balance is still (mostly) better when I'm alone. I certainly get dropped into losing games - but a significant percentage of the time, I can actually turn that around for my team. (My win percentage is actually higher solo than it is as a team.) When I have specific win bounties, especially in 3-man-team lists, I have better chances getting the wins solo than I do with 2 friends.

I think the difference is, I'm worse than most of the people I play with here, and you're as good as they are or better.

Also, if I get tossed into a game in progress, if I stay in the party, more than 75% of the time, I'm put into a brand new game the next time around. (Sometimes that doesn't happen - I think it's when everyone else quits out.)

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:00 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I have better chances getting the wins solo than I do with 2 friends.

I feel like this is a problem. With everyone so sweaty at the moment, it's hard to play with friends without someone having a bad time. I'm less likely to play with the people I want, and that goes against everything Destiny, to me.

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Claude Errera @, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:21 (2828 days ago) @ someotherguy

I have better chances getting the wins solo than I do with 2 friends.


I feel like this is a problem. With everyone so sweaty at the moment, it's hard to play with friends without someone having a bad time. I'm less likely to play with the people I want, and that goes against everything Destiny, to me.

The easy solution is to not worry about the bounties if you're playing with people on a different level than you are. ;)

(Last night, I got pulled into a fun group I rarely play with. The range between the top player and the bottom was enormous - there was no way trueskill, or any other system, had a CHANCE of matching us up against reasonable opponents, because what would that look like? We steamrolled some teams (20k-8k, in one instance),and got obliterated by others... but it was fun. And because I'd been pulled in directly from a Prison of Elders solo run, I didn't have any Crucible bounties at all - which made it EASY not to care about specific kinds of wins, or kills, or whatever. I just played, to the best of my ability, and I enjoyed myself.

::shrug::

(And sometimes it's ALL about the bounties. There's no single answer to the question.)

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Monday, August 29, 2016, 18:05 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

No, and to be completely honest, I'm enjoying it less and less with friends as time goes on.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but for me, Sniper rifles have gone from being an annoyance to borderline ruining the game for me (at times). I'm just sick of being quickscoped by run-and-gun snipers who are able to pull of the most insane insta-headshots, or spending the entire match dealing with campers who are able to hit headshot after headshot despite the fact that I'm hitting them in the face with Mida or Jade Rabbit or whatever. I don't hold it against the players who are able to do this... it requires skill, no doubt about it. It just seems like a skill that trumps all others. As someone who's never enjoyed sniping, it frustrates me to no end that there really is no good reliable way to counter snipers other than out-sniping them. And the more time goes by, the better those uber-snipers continue to get.

To me, Destiny PvP is a blast when everyone is moving, trying to out-flank each other. I'm really just getting sick of rounding any corner on any map to find 4 enemy players hard-scoping my position with 1KYS.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, August 29, 2016, 18:12 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I look forward to the new gametype in Rise because of the snipers. It won't eliminate them, just make them a little less valuable.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Monday, August 29, 2016, 18:14 (2828 days ago) @ dogcow

I look forward to the new gametype in Rise because of the snipers. It won't eliminate them, just make them a little less valuable.

I was thinking the same thing. Still, I firmly believe that something needs to be done to change the way snipers mechanically behave. There is too much auto-aim, they're too quick to scope and fire, there's too much ammo... they just dominate the map in a way that no weapon should, IMO.

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Agreed.

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, August 29, 2016, 18:18 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

- No text -

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What do you mean?

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Monday, August 29, 2016, 18:48 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by unoudid, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:12

Still, I firmly believe that something needs to be done to change the way snipers mechanically behave. There is too much auto-aim, they're too quick to scope and fire...

Also

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:28 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by Cody Miller, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:38

I look forward to the new gametype in Rise because of the snipers. It won't eliminate them, just make them a little less valuable.


I was thinking the same thing. Still, I firmly believe that something needs to be done to change the way snipers mechanically behave. There is too much auto-aim, they're too quick to scope and fire, there's too much ammo... they just dominate the map in a way that no weapon should, IMO.

Simple change:

Getting hit takes you out of scope for snipers. Everything else the same. Done. Another problem solved by master designer Cody Miller. Halo had it right all along.

(Or just eliminate low zoom scopes and make the zoom higher across the board).

Only if PvP and PvE were separate.

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:32 (2828 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Sigh. #codywasright, I guess

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Only if PvP and PvE were separate.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:33 (2828 days ago) @ someotherguy

Sigh. #codywasright, I guess

I mean, to be fair snipers kind of ruin bosses in general, so it'd work great for PvE as well.

Only if PvP and PvE were separate.

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:57 (2828 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I think it's less that snipers ruin bosses and more that snipers are the only way to do real damage to most bosses. Even when shotguns were good in PvE bosses tended to just AoE you to death (or worse, into a wall).

Luke Smith even said in that recent stream that he's a bit disappointed that Golgoroth involves standing right next to him sniping at point blank ("That's not the sniper fantasy") but shotguns just don't do the required damage.

Plus can you imagine how irritating it would be to try and snipe anything in PvE with all the bullet spam?

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Claude Errera @, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:23 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

No, and to be completely honest, I'm enjoying it less and less with friends as time goes on.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but for me, Sniper rifles have gone from being an annoyance to borderline ruining the game for me (at times). I'm just sick of being quickscoped by run-and-gun snipers who are able to pull of the most insane insta-headshots, or spending the entire match dealing with campers who are able to hit headshot after headshot despite the fact that I'm hitting them in the face with Mida or Jade Rabbit or whatever. I don't hold it against the players who are able to do this... it requires skill, no doubt about it. It just seems like a skill that trumps all others. As someone who's never enjoyed sniping, it frustrates me to no end that there really is no good reliable way to counter snipers other than out-sniping them. And the more time goes by, the better those uber-snipers continue to get.

lol - and I've been playing with someone this past week who's been saying almost every night that Shotguns should be removed from the game. It's all about what you DON'T have, not what you do. ;)

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:27 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

No, and to be completely honest, I'm enjoying it less and less with friends as time goes on.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but for me, Sniper rifles have gone from being an annoyance to borderline ruining the game for me (at times). I'm just sick of being quickscoped by run-and-gun snipers who are able to pull of the most insane insta-headshots, or spending the entire match dealing with campers who are able to hit headshot after headshot despite the fact that I'm hitting them in the face with Mida or Jade Rabbit or whatever. I don't hold it against the players who are able to do this... it requires skill, no doubt about it. It just seems like a skill that trumps all others. As someone who's never enjoyed sniping, it frustrates me to no end that there really is no good reliable way to counter snipers other than out-sniping them. And the more time goes by, the better those uber-snipers continue to get.


lol - and I've been playing with someone this past week who's been saying almost every night that Shotguns should be removed from the game. It's all about what you DON'T have, not what you do. ;)

So if snipers are out, and shotguns are out, then that leaves…

I am totally okay with that :-)

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:36 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

No, and to be completely honest, I'm enjoying it less and less with friends as time goes on.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but for me, Sniper rifles have gone from being an annoyance to borderline ruining the game for me (at times). I'm just sick of being quickscoped by run-and-gun snipers who are able to pull of the most insane insta-headshots, or spending the entire match dealing with campers who are able to hit headshot after headshot despite the fact that I'm hitting them in the face with Mida or Jade Rabbit or whatever. I don't hold it against the players who are able to do this... it requires skill, no doubt about it. It just seems like a skill that trumps all others. As someone who's never enjoyed sniping, it frustrates me to no end that there really is no good reliable way to counter snipers other than out-sniping them. And the more time goes by, the better those uber-snipers continue to get.


lol - and I've been playing with someone this past week who's been saying almost every night that Shotguns should be removed from the game. It's all about what you DON'T have, not what you do. ;)

heh, I'd take your friend to task on that one :)

Shotguns are great. In the right hands, they can be extremely effective. I get killed by them plenty of times. But I don't consider them a problem because
a) if you know they are there, they can be easily avoided (a team with 2 or 3 snipers is impossible to avoid, unless your plan is to hide for the entire match)
b) if you know they are there, they can be easily countered (snipers can so effectively insta-kill even while taking fire that can't be reliably countered by any other weapon)
c) they are deadly within a very specific range. Outside that range, they are utterly useless (snipers can 1-hit-kill from any range, and are insanely effective at close-mid range thanks to low zoom scopes, quick draw, high magnetism, etc)
d) while potentially deadly, using a shotgun fundamentally requires the user to put themselves in extremely risky situations (snipers have the luxury of keeping their distance, but can still be deadly even if you push up and engage from close range. Getting close to a sniper does very little to negate their advantage)

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Claude Errera @, Monday, August 29, 2016, 21:00 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

No, and to be completely honest, I'm enjoying it less and less with friends as time goes on.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but for me, Sniper rifles have gone from being an annoyance to borderline ruining the game for me (at times). I'm just sick of being quickscoped by run-and-gun snipers who are able to pull of the most insane insta-headshots, or spending the entire match dealing with campers who are able to hit headshot after headshot despite the fact that I'm hitting them in the face with Mida or Jade Rabbit or whatever. I don't hold it against the players who are able to do this... it requires skill, no doubt about it. It just seems like a skill that trumps all others. As someone who's never enjoyed sniping, it frustrates me to no end that there really is no good reliable way to counter snipers other than out-sniping them. And the more time goes by, the better those uber-snipers continue to get.


lol - and I've been playing with someone this past week who's been saying almost every night that Shotguns should be removed from the game. It's all about what you DON'T have, not what you do. ;)


heh, I'd take your friend to task on that one :)

Shotguns are great. In the right hands, they can be extremely effective. I get killed by them plenty of times. But I don't consider them a problem because
a) if you know they are there, they can be easily avoided (a team with 2 or 3 snipers is impossible to avoid, unless your plan is to hide for the entire match)
b) if you know they are there, they can be easily countered (snipers can so effectively insta-kill even while taking fire that can't be reliably countered by any other weapon)
c) they are deadly within a very specific range. Outside that range, they are utterly useless (snipers can 1-hit-kill from any range, and are insanely effective at close-mid range thanks to low zoom scopes, quick draw, high magnetism, etc)
d) while potentially deadly, using a shotgun fundamentally requires the user to put themselves in extremely risky situations (snipers have the luxury of keeping their distance, but can still be deadly even if you push up and engage from close range. Getting close to a sniper does very little to negate their advantage)

You clearly play a different class of opponent than I do. ;)

Almost every map has multiple routes to a particular point; you can stay out of the long sniper alleys and creep up on hard-scopers, and your shotgun becomes a death machine. The idea that snipers are fantastic at close range is a little absurd; I've NEVER been put in a position where folks are getting consistent snipes from shotgun range. Most of the time it works, it looks like this:

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Louis%20Wu/video/20819096

I don't point to that as a great snipe, or even evidence of super-high aim assist - that's pure dumb luck. :)

::shrug::

I die more to shotgunners than snipers. You do the reverse. We have different playstyles - and different enemy pools. ;)

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Monday, August 29, 2016, 21:24 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

No, and to be completely honest, I'm enjoying it less and less with friends as time goes on.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but for me, Sniper rifles have gone from being an annoyance to borderline ruining the game for me (at times). I'm just sick of being quickscoped by run-and-gun snipers who are able to pull of the most insane insta-headshots, or spending the entire match dealing with campers who are able to hit headshot after headshot despite the fact that I'm hitting them in the face with Mida or Jade Rabbit or whatever. I don't hold it against the players who are able to do this... it requires skill, no doubt about it. It just seems like a skill that trumps all others. As someone who's never enjoyed sniping, it frustrates me to no end that there really is no good reliable way to counter snipers other than out-sniping them. And the more time goes by, the better those uber-snipers continue to get.


lol - and I've been playing with someone this past week who's been saying almost every night that Shotguns should be removed from the game. It's all about what you DON'T have, not what you do. ;)


heh, I'd take your friend to task on that one :)

Shotguns are great. In the right hands, they can be extremely effective. I get killed by them plenty of times. But I don't consider them a problem because
a) if you know they are there, they can be easily avoided (a team with 2 or 3 snipers is impossible to avoid, unless your plan is to hide for the entire match)
b) if you know they are there, they can be easily countered (snipers can so effectively insta-kill even while taking fire that can't be reliably countered by any other weapon)
c) they are deadly within a very specific range. Outside that range, they are utterly useless (snipers can 1-hit-kill from any range, and are insanely effective at close-mid range thanks to low zoom scopes, quick draw, high magnetism, etc)
d) while potentially deadly, using a shotgun fundamentally requires the user to put themselves in extremely risky situations (snipers have the luxury of keeping their distance, but can still be deadly even if you push up and engage from close range. Getting close to a sniper does very little to negate their advantage)


You clearly play a different class of opponent than I do. ;)

Almost every map has multiple routes to a particular point; you can stay out of the long sniper alleys and creep up on hard-scopers, and your shotgun becomes a death machine. The idea that snipers are fantastic at close range is a little absurd; I've NEVER been put in a position where folks are getting consistent snipes from shotgun range.

I have, and it is NOT fun. Ok, "shotgun" range is an exaggeration, but I get 1-shot killed by snipers (who are being hit in the head by me) from within Fusion range on a regular basis. That's the real kicker. If I wander into their line of sight, that's one thing. But when I'm the one who initiates contact, I'm hitting them in the face, and they just whip out a 1KYS and headshot me in an instant, I feel my rage levels rising. If it were once in a blue moon I'd chalk it up to luck, but it happens to me all the damn time. I was playing Trials with Chaos and Munky a few days ago, on Pantheon. Our plan was to hold the middle courtyard area and stay out of the sniper lanes. We went up against a player who was so good, he would just jump into the middle with us and snipe from close range. At one point I saw him jump up onto the middle pillar with his Mida equipped, so I jump up towards him with my fusion rifle equipped. I began charging it in mid air so I could fire before I landed. He turned to face me when I was about 10ft away, whipped out his quick-draw sniper and headshot me out of the air in an instant. Again, if it was a 1 time thing I would have thought "wow what a lucky shot" but he was pulling stuff like that off every single round. While he was certainly one of the better snipers I've come across in recent memory, I run into players (or full teams) close to that level every 2-3 games.

I'm sure it has to do with the fact that I mostly play Trials, and that is the home of the sweaty players these days, but it does expose how overly powerful snipers are at any range.

And as far as flanking goes, it's all but impossible to out-flank snipers (or any players) at that skill level. They know the maps, and can see you on radar the moment you're within 50ft or so. Plus, they're teammates are usually covering their blind spots... WITH SNIPER RIFLES, lol!

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Stuntmutt, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 08:56 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

[image]

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hehe

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 11:38 (2828 days ago) @ Stuntmutt

- No text -

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Hah!

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 13:29 (2828 days ago) @ Stuntmutt

- No text -

Should I consider this last week's, a few days late?

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 14:00 (2828 days ago) @ Stuntmutt

;)

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By all means.

by Stuntmutt, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 14:55 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Apologies for the no show.
May have been fortuitous - this was actually one of the very first 'Vault' strips I made.
Been waiting for the right moment for it to be... unleassssssshhhhed.

!$#$*$@##!~!~~!!!

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 18:29 (2827 days ago) @ Stuntmutt

Apologies for the no show.
May have been fortuitous - this was actually one of the very first 'Vault' strips I made.
Been waiting for the right moment for it to be... unleassssssshhhhed.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by slycrel ⌂, Monday, August 29, 2016, 23:05 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

One slight disagreement. Most guns, other than shotguns or fusion rifles, are much less effective at short range. Scouts, pluses, even some ARs are better at mid-long range than close range. Hand cannons are now short-mid range, but short range isn't usually likely as that's shotgun (and sometimes fusion) range. Even hand cannons are often slow enough that shotguns win because so many classes can close so quickly. Maybe I'm jsut doing it wrong but I think once in close, shotguns have a clear advantage. It's crossing the mid-range that's the hard part. If they can do that then they can usually win a player who isn't ready to actively counter a shotgun.

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:51 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

The issue for me is range. Shotguns may be an easier kill (by which I mean the gap vetween a good and bad shotgunner isn't as large as between a good and bad sniper), but you have to work harder for it regardless of skill level - you have to put yourself directly in the firing line and almost definitely take some fire to get your kill.

A sniper's range on the other hand means that a good sniper is much, much safer than a good shotgunner. Additionally, their much larger effective kill radius gives them a power move shotgunners don't get - A hardscoped sniper can lock down an entire lane (through kills and fear) unlike anything else in the game (even supers have a time limit). Destiny's movement is such that you can escape almost any engagement (even shotgunners due to their short range) but a sniper can kill at extreme range in the time it takes to cross a doorway, while remaining off your radar and relatively safe.

To quote pwadigy, snipers are downright oppressive in a way shotgunners just aren't.

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If that was me...

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:01 (2828 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I have all the good shotguns, I just don't understand them in a universe where there's only one enemy that gets all in your grill on a consistent basis (Thrall). If I was a weapons manufacturer in the Destiny universe, shotguns would be very low on my product development list.

It's all about being true to the universe :)

Shotguns *used* to be good in PvE

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:04 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

But too many people were enjoying themselves in the Strike playlists. Something had to be done to preserve the grind.

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Shotguns *used* to be good in PvE

by ProbablyLast, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 22:40 (2827 days ago) @ someotherguy

Yep. The heroics two or three weeks ago had small arms and airborne which made the Universal Remote almost as fun to use as the Found Verdict was during HoW.

Shotguns are now so irrelevant in end-game PvE that I don't know why I've kept any of them outside of the quest CTD for crucible.

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Avateur @, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 23:12 (2827 days ago) @ Claude Errera

lol - and I've been playing with someone this past week who's been saying almost every night that Shotguns should be removed from the game. It's all about what you DON'T have, not what you do. ;)

I don't get this argument at all. Shotguns have received nerfs. Sniper rifles seem to just be stupidly unbalanced. Neither shotguns nor sniper rifles should be removed completely, but something definitely needs to be done in the balancing equation on sniper rifles right now.

Edit: Shotguns probably could use some tweaking as well, though I'm not necessarily clear yet on what I'd want to do with them. I would put sniper rifle balancing at a higher priority at this point, but both definitely need work.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:34 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

No, and to be completely honest, I'm enjoying it less and less with friends as time goes on.

Probably because I'm not there :-p

Take a break and come back later and you will have the excitement again.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:54 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Your hatred of snipers (as one who enjoys sniping but isn't INCREDIBLY talented at it like some are) is more or less how I feel about shotguns. When I'm not sniping and playing close range, I hate getting someone 4/5ths of the way to a kill to be saved by a 1-shot, long range shotgun.

Just as you want someone to flinch while being hit by bullets while sniping, I think people should flinch/stagger by default from any bullet so they can't just charge and shotgun you. I think bullets should effect grenade accuracy too.

Honestly, whole PVP game improves if every bullet causes you flinch and stagger, and no perk takes it away. Just my opinion though.

Sidenote: I really don't understand shotguns in the world of Destiny. Who's developing these guns that you hardly use in PvE? It's an area of technology that doesn't seem to have enough use in the universe to warrant the time spent researching and developing better shotguns. The only plausible use of shotguns would be hordes of Thrall attacking you. It's really the only time in the story/universe where a shotgun would be the most useful weapon. Weapons better suited to the task of eradicating the darkness would have been designed and created in this universe. You'd focus on being able to take out targets from easy safe distances. But I'm probably putting more thought into this than people think I should.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:01 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

Your hatred of snipers (as one who enjoys sniping but isn't INCREDIBLY talented at it like some are) is more or less how I feel about shotguns. When I'm not sniping and playing close range, I hate getting someone 4/5ths of the way to a kill to be saved by a 1-shot, long range shotgun.

As I said in one of my other posts, the difference to me is that a shotgunner is putting themselves in serious danger by getting close enough to you to use their shotgun (unless they catch you by surprise, in which case I'd say they outplayed you and deserve the kill anyway). I have certainly had moments of frustration against shotguns, but more often than not I am in a situation that favors the shotgun and I got honestly outplayed. Snipers, on the other hand, have the advantage at almost any range. They can quick-scope you from 15 feet away just as effectively as they can from across the map.

Just as you want someone to flinch while being hit by bullets while sniping, I think people should flinch/stagger by default from any bullet so they can't just charge and shotgun you. I think bullets should effect grenade accuracy too.

Honestly, whole PVP game improves if every bullet causes you flinch and stagger, and no perk takes it away. Just my opinion though.

That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how I feel about it one way or the other. Seems to me like it would put more emphasis on "whoever fires the first shot wins" gameplay. Less likelihood of reacting and returning fire in a successful way. That's not necessarily a bad thing... just different.


Sidenote: I really don't understand shotguns in the world of Destiny. Who's developing these guns that you hardly use in PvE? It's an area of technology that doesn't seem to have enough use in the universe to warrant the time spent researching and developing better shotguns. The only plausible use of shotguns would be hordes of Thrall attacking you. It's really the only time in the story/universe where a shotgun would be the most useful weapon. Weapons better suited to the task of eradicating the darkness would have been designed and created in this universe. You'd focus on being able to take out targets from easy safe distances. But I'm probably putting more thought into this than people think I should.

I loved shotguns in PvE back when they received that 100% damage boost. They were a blast. Still don't understand why Bungie went back on that change :-/

Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:06 (2828 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I loved shotguns in PvE back when they received that 100% damage boost. They were a blast. Still don't understand why Bungie went back on that change :-/

Too much fun. How dare people kill bosses with anything other than sniper rifles.

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I still fondly remember UR-ing the heck outta Skolas

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, August 29, 2016, 21:15 (2828 days ago) @ someotherguy

*sigh*

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:18 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

Sidenote: I really don't understand shotguns in the world of Destiny. Who's developing these guns that you hardly use in PvE? It's an area of technology that doesn't seem to have enough use in the universe to warrant the time spent researching and developing better shotguns. The only plausible use of shotguns would be hordes of Thrall attacking you. It's really the only time in the story/universe where a shotgun would be the most useful weapon. Weapons better suited to the task of eradicating the darkness would have been designed and created in this universe. You'd focus on being able to take out targets from easy safe distances. But I'm probably putting more thought into this than people think I should.

Even then, an Auto Rifle would probably handle the masses of thrall better, yes? The only time a shotgun is good in PvE is when you want to do a quick burst of damage up close, but the amount of damage isn't enough to take down a significant opponent, and thrall usually overwhelm you faster than you can fire a shotty...

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Won't argue with you on that one.

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:27 (2828 days ago) @ dogcow

ARs would be and definitely are effective on thralls. Heck, I like a Scout Rifles honestly. I just take my time and pick them off 1 by 1 with headshots. Stab the few that get too close.

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Minotaurs?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, August 29, 2016, 21:17 (2828 days ago) @ dogcow

Am I the only one that constantly get stuck in the "charge, Minotaur teleports as soon as I fire, rinse repeat" loop? I mean, I know how to avoid it, but it always sneak up on me. Back when shotguns were useful, the hitscan was a welcome change.

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Shotguns need significant knockback/stun or vastly more dmg.

by slycrel ⌂, Monday, August 29, 2016, 23:09 (2828 days ago) @ dogcow

- No text -

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 21:23 (2827 days ago) @ BeardFade

You must not main a Titan.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 21:50 (2827 days ago) @ Harmanimus

I don't but I play a considerable amount with all three of my characters. I don't fully understand what you're getting at and hope you can elaborate.

And while we're on the topic of Titans, there's another thing that grinds my gears. The buff to Shoulder Charge is ridiculous. I think it was fine where it was. I won't go into more detail. My blood will start boiling.

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What was the buff to shoulder charge?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 21:55 (2827 days ago) @ BeardFade

- No text -

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 23:08 (2827 days ago) @ BeardFade

A lore reason for shotguns. Titans need a proper sidearm for their fists.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 21:54 (2827 days ago) @ BeardFade

Sidenote: I really don't understand shotguns in the world of Destiny. Who's developing these guns that you hardly use in PvE? It's an area of technology that doesn't seem to have enough use in the universe to warrant the time spent researching and developing better shotguns. The only plausible use of shotguns would be hordes of Thrall attacking you. It's really the only time in the story/universe where a shotgun would be the most useful weapon. Weapons better suited to the task of eradicating the darkness would have been designed and created in this universe. You'd focus on being able to take out targets from easy safe distances. But I'm probably putting more thought into this than people think I should.

Who doesn't use shotguns in PvE? When it comes to doing something challenging or new I always default back to Invective and No Backup Plans. Yes, shotguns got something of a nerf from their historic high of +200% damage, but I think they still do 150% more damage than they did two years ago.

As for in universe... Most of our enemies can appear anywhere either via dropships or transmat or teleporting in from an alternate dimension. Except for maybe the City, there are no safe distances. It sounds like we enjoyed a period of relative safety across the Earth for the past few hundred years but couldn't really appreciate it (outside of The City) since our society had been completely destroyed. But go to the Moon, or Venus, or Mars and you have Hive cutting through physical reality to rain Thrall and Acolytes on your head. Or you have Fallen decloaking directly above you. Or you have Vex dropping in from another when and where. Or you have a Cabal fleet overhead constantly hounding you with dropship after dropship.

Aside from Destiny shotguns being your typical infinite power up close, no damage beyond 5 feet kind of video game weapons, I would think some Guardians (who really can't permanently die during normal combat) would absolutely carry around one of these shotguns. :)

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by Chappy, Arlington, VA., Monday, August 29, 2016, 18:54 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

I definitely enjoy playing crucible in a party more than solo - the conversation is fun and we tend to win more often than not. But compared with the people I play with, I'm in the bottom half of the leader board pretty consistently. I have to queue solo during Iron Banner in order to earn the weekly bounty that requires placing #1 - that's usually an annoying evening of getting put into loosing matches and playing with teammates that don't understand the game objectives (or basic game mechanics).

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Yes.

by ProbablyLast, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:10 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

But I'm not good at the game so I get matched into more favorable lobbies while running solo and listening to music than I do while playing in a group and trying very hard to not mute everyone.

Muting Everyone Protip:

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:22 (2828 days ago) @ ProbablyLast

Easier to mute yourself and angrily hurl your chattering headset onto the floor when it's time to really concentrate. Anger optional, but it's usually (always) when Im playing terrible and am on tilt.

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Muting Everyone Protip:

by ProbablyLast, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:39 (2828 days ago) @ someotherguy

Good call. I usually just end up putting in my headphones anyway and make random callouts so people think I'm still listening.

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Do YOU enjoy playing the Crucible alone?

by BaghdadBean, Oregon, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:29 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

I almost always rank better while playing solo. It really is more fun to play with friends, but I'm starting to enjoy running rift solo, and rumble. At least when I'm running solo I don't feel like I'm holding anybody back with my old broad reflexes. I'm honestly going to say, I'm not sure I enjoy playing solo, but it's a little more satisfying to play solo. Not sure if that distinction comes across the way I think of it, but that's it in a nutshell.

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TL;DR - Same Boat.

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:32 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

That's been my experience for quite some time now. I'm a decent Crucible player, but playing solo now means I won't have much fun. There was a time where I was the top scorer almost every game, now I'm consistently at the bottom of the pile and honestly losing much more often than I used to.

Whenever I play with other people, the level changes severely. I feel like a god amongst men. It's kind of mind blowing honestly.

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TL;DR - Same Boat.

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:34 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

Actually just looking at my stats briefly, I barely played my characters in August (played my wife's for IB). My K/D for August is negative for the first time since starting the game. That probably says something right there.

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I don't always play crucible...

by Durandal, Monday, August 29, 2016, 19:54 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

But when I do I rage against PC+1 and Snipers.

Yeah, I get dropped into lots of losing matches, and only one time have we rallied back for the win, but most of the time that doesn't phase me so much.

Snipers being able to calmly turn and headshot you from any distance while under fire really cheeses me. Shotguns not so much, except where my Dedris Retort or Comedian do 0-25% damage and the other guy's PC+1 kills me. It sucks that I can fire first, be dead on, and still lose just because PC+1 never dropped for me this whole game.

I can't snipe. For whatever reason I just can't seem to pull off any of the sweet moves people make montages of, even though I do have several good snipers, but that doesn't bother me too much. I don't mind them pegging me at long range, it's just when you take all that effort to pull off the flank just for it to be totally worthless due to the auto aim quick scooping no skill shots people pull off.

Getting killed twice by storm callers/hammerbros is annoying, but rare enough that I don't rage as much anymore.

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On getting killed twice by the same super...

by BeardFade ⌂, Portland, OR, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:08 (2828 days ago) @ Durandal
edited by BeardFade, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:14

I think that should be impossible, that you should receive some sort of buff that makes you impervious to being killed a second time by the same super.

Stormcaller is still broken in my opinion. It definitely shouldn't chain. You definitely shouldn't float faster than people can run/jump, and it shouldn't be twice as long as other supers. Also, want to point out, you can snipe a Golden Gun and kill him/her, you can't 1-shot snipe a StormCaller (at least I can't, I use a medium impact sniper generally).

Honestly, and I have no evidence to this, but how poorly balances Stormcallers and Sunbreakers were in TTK made me think they didn't do any significant amount of PvP testing with the new subclasses.

Lastly, I have never once played Stormcaller in PvP on principle. It is a cheating class (because its super is so OP) as far as I'm concerned, and I don't care whose feelings I hurt, I think you're a coward for using it. #thatsrightIsaidit #comeatmebro #usearealsubclass :)

I play Stormcaller exclusively in Rumble now.

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, August 29, 2016, 20:13 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

Because yes, it's cheating.

Worth noting that a Titan at least can escape it. But only if you dont have any friends nearby to chain lightning into you.

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the TTK subclasses outclassed the others

by Durandal, Monday, August 29, 2016, 22:50 (2828 days ago) @ BeardFade

Objectively, the Nightstalker, Sunbreaker and Stormcaller are better then their counterparts in the majority of aspects in PVP. People still held on to broken Sunsingers for the grenades and rez, but really in a objective game type Stormcallers are the superior choice. Sunbreakers were so broken that bungie had to nerf them since that was all anyone would play in 6v6.

Bladedancers are the highest risk class, and now that blink has been nerfed into oblivion, it's only used for the bonus quickdraw perk and skip grenades. The super is the 2nd easiest to counter (gunslinger is the easiest). Stealth is still very limited and tough to use, as well as easily visible to scoped snipers and close in.

I would really like to see a return of blink to a useful jump. In my opinion, the nerfs to blink's cool down, weapon ready times and regeneration are what have pushed the envelope, along with the general primary range nerfs, that have lead to the dominance of snipers. It's just too risky to close the distance on a sniper. You are either in sniper range, or TLW all the time and ceed the initiative to the sniper.

As evidence, you see lots of 'nought titans with Twilight Garrison for the added mobility doing rushing these days. With Titan skating, TG, and Shoulder Charge they can close the distance with the least risk.

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Not really...

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Monday, August 29, 2016, 23:15 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

This is a minor complaint wrapped in an honest question about the current state of the crucible.

This question comes from the fact that I remember playing crucible lone wolf in year one and actually having a great time. Games felt fair overall even though the advantage was always to a coordinated team.

I played quite a bit of matchmaking this weekend both on teams and running solo. What really stuck out to me was the fact that when I ran with a team I tended to have very fair matches overall. Of course there were a few times when we got completely smashed. One time we got matched against a team of 3 in salvage/skirmish where the best person was a top 100 player on guardian.gg and no matter what I did I could not kill them.

Things changed though when I ran solo. It seemed that I would get dropped into matches where the players on the other teams were all vastly better than me. This happened enough the point where I was so frustrated that I was about to launch a controller through my monitor. At that point I turned the xbox off for awhile and took a break.

Now the real question comes into how does Bungie balance between playing in groups and playing solo?

For example, If I have an ELO of 1100 but typically run in groups where people are ELO 1300+, when I go play solo, does that run of playing with great players affect my matchmaking when running alone? Basically, if you are getting carried, does that screw you over?

It seems that once year 2 SBMM came along that nearly all matches have turned into a complete sweatfest. I actually miss the days of ranked and unranked matches in Halo. At least I knew what I was getting into when playing in the ranked lobbies.

Also, join in progress still sucks when playing solo. There's nothing like getting dropped into 6 straight losing matches when trying to play 3v3 playlists to work on grimoire.

But it's not because of matchmaking or win% or k/d. Mostly I just prefer the camaraderie of the Xbone crew. The majority of us who play together are even keeled, decent at callouts, and can hold our ground. My win % greatly improves when I play with the DBOers. Strangely, I feel that while the competitors get easier when I play solo (meaning my k/d seems to improve), my likelihood of winning seems less. I don't feel that getting carried skews your matchmaking. I think that playing with good teammates tends to set your expectations, and having crappy teammates puts more stress on your own skills because you are having to carry more of the workload.

I'm not really sure what calculates ELO, nor do I even know what it stands for. For example, I have the same ELO as Squid in Salvage and he is clearly the better player if not the best player on the DBO Xbone team.

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When I do, I do.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 02:52 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

- No text -

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In-Game Voice Chat

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 15:13 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid
edited by unoudid, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 15:17

Does anyone feel that Bungie really dropped the ball with the lack of in-game voice chat at launch? If you are going in solo to a 3v3 playlist, the main advantage to fireteams is that they can communicate with each other. At launch there was no in-game voice chat for matchmade teams. Once they added the option it was turned off by default (opt-in only) if I remember correctly. This has made playing destiny alone almost an anti-social game. I can probably count the number of times on one hand that people actually used the in game chat. I can only think of one strike where I've been invited to party chat by randoms in order to coordinate the goal of going for a specific exotic sword.

Anyway, just thinking about the whole playing solo thing more. I played some crucible last night (3v3 & 6v6) with a fireteam and had an awesome time just chatting away.

edit: I realize there are some hardcore annoying people out there who should be banned from ever opening their mouths. Let's ignore the obvious here.

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In-Game Voice Chat

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 16:22 (2828 days ago) @ unoudid

edit: I realize there are some hardcore annoying people out there who should be banned from ever opening their mouths. Let's ignore the obvious here.

Unfortunately there are a lot more than "some". I actually really appreciate that chat is disabled by default. I only ever have to talk to or listen to people I want to hear. In Halo Reach I always kept everyone muted by default once they made that setting available.

That's not to say that chat off by default is necessarily the best option, but I think it made Destiny a lot more fun than if they kept chat on by default.

As an alternative, maybe they could have come up with some kind of system where you can have annoying people automatically muted when reported enough by the community? Leave the ability to un-mute them and come up with some way to get themselves removed from the auto-mute so you can't get permanently muted by bad community members maybe.

Or perhaps add the ability to report people who violate certain chat rules and automatically have clips of their chat sent to Bungie for actual, temporary bans? Boy would that be a wakeup call for some idiots. Of course, it's also probably too much work for Bungie and it would require stating the rules very clearly in advance.

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In-Game Voice Chat

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 18:13 (2827 days ago) @ unoudid

You can set the in game chat to default to on since that early update 2+ years ago. I usually don't do it because I usually don't want to talk to random people or here my random complaints. The them not having to hear me may sound silly but I think it's kinda an important courtesy I extend. :p

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In-Game Voice Chat

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 18:51 (2827 days ago) @ Ragashingo

The them not having to hear me may sound silly but I think it's kinda an important courtesy I extend. :p

Obviously you are not complaining in an entertaining enough fashion. I think Up North has some phrases we could adopt.

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In-Game Voice Chat

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 21:25 (2827 days ago) @ unoudid

You get to hear my complaints from time to time. Are you not entertained??

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In-Game Voice Chat

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 21:47 (2827 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I know mine are not entertaining. This game is such Bullsh** or Goshdarn....

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I thought that was *my* line...

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 21:50 (2827 days ago) @ unoudid

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Nope

by Avateur @, Tuesday, August 30, 2016, 22:42 (2827 days ago) @ unoudid

I could play Halo alone all the time. Customs, Ranked, Social. It was fun regardless. I thoroughly do not enjoy playing Crucible alone. It's just not fun. I think Crucible is fantastic, and when the Raids get stale and old, it's about the only thing that draws me back to Destiny, but only if I have others around to play with.

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