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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme (Destiny)

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, December 09, 2016, 02:25 (1011 days ago)
edited by Ragashingo, Friday, December 09, 2016, 02:34

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For a thousand years, Oryx and his sisters must have killed billions and maybe even trillions of thinking beings who were once members of the Ecumene. We know the numbers they slaughtered were so great two ways:

1. When the Dakaua War Council first met to address the Hive threat the Hive had only destroyed somewhere around 300 worlds, and only seventeen (17!) of those were part of the Ecumene. By the time our Guardian steals data from the World’s Grave that number has risen to “thousand of worlds” and there are not many foes left for the Hive. Or at least not many that we are told about.

2. When the Ecumene had forced the Hive to a standstill, Savathûn lamented that they would need to be killing Ecumene by the billions in order to feed their worms the destruction they hungered for. But they seem to have no more hunger pains that we know of during this 1,000 year period.

Speaking of those hunger pains, Savathûn asked about them once the last of the Ecumene were extinguished. “King Oryx, how will we feed our worms? Did you use my plan?” she asks. We don’t hear Oryx’s direct answer, but we do get to hear his announcement of a plan to end the Hive’s hunger pains once and for all.

Oryx commands that his Thrall and Acolytes are to take enough killing to feed their worms plus a little more to grow their own power. The rest of the destruction they cause is to be tithed up the chain. The Thrall will tithe to the Acolyte that commands them. The Acolytes will tithe to the Knights or Wizards that command them.

Oryx’s command to his Knights and Wizards is much the same, with one exception. They too are to take enough killing to feed their worms, and a little more to grow. But before they tithe the rest, they are expected to take another portion, as much as they dare, to use for their own purposes. They then tithe whatever is left to the Ascendant Hive that they server under. So, they are expected to forge their own paths with the catch being that if they get too far out of line or too devious then their fellow Hive will get jealous and kill them in order to take possession of the excess of destruction they are keeping for themselves.

Why do the Knights and Wizards get this exception, this command to branch out and do their own things as much as they are able? Probably, Oryx wants to make sure his Hive don’t fall into a rut of all fighting the same way. More than that, though, I think it has to do with Knights and the Wizards being the final adult form the Hive. Essentially, Thrall and Acolytes are children that have to do as they are told, but Knights and Wizards (and Kings presumably, but we never hear of any other Hive Kings) are free to achieve or squander their power and earnings as little or as much as they want. This, of course, also calls back to the the way Aurash, Sathona, and Xi Ro made their own journey of destruction from childhood to adulthood back on the seas of Fundament so long ago.

Next, the Knights and Wizards who manage to steal and hold on to enough power will become Ascendant Hive once they are able to create their own throne worlds. These Hive too are commanded to tithe upward, but they are the last link in the chain as the only ones above them are Oryx, Savathûn, and Xivu Arath. We also know that Ascendant Hive are still free to do their own thing, as we know of at least one, Alak-Hul (the Darkblade from the Sunless Cell Strike) who attempts to challenge Oryx for leadership of the Hive.

Finally, the three leaders of the Hive, the three royal siblings we know so well, will use the vast flow of tribute flowing up to them to feed their own worms, grow their own power, feed the Hive’s worm gods, and to study the powers of the Deep.

I think this plan, this pyramid scheme of destruction, was the plan Savathûn spoke of. There’s no real proof of this, but it feels a bit too clever for Oryx to have come up with it on his own. Either way, this is how the Hive operate from this point on. This plan is both their command structure and their supply line. Ultimately, it will be their greatest strength and, for at least one of the three murderous royal siblings, their greatest weakness… But we won’t see that second part for quite a while.

(Many of you have seen and exploited this weakness first hand, however!)

Sources:
XXVIII: King of Shapes
XXVI: star by star by star

Previous: 15: War and Trickery
Next: 17: The End of an Age

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Friday, December 09, 2016, 13:52 (1010 days ago) @ Ragashingo

This has huge parallels with our light meter. It grows with every kill, minion of the darkness or guardian. Are we sure we aren't bad? Do we understand the nature of the light & the darkness? I would think that our light meter should be tied to the life we give, not the life we take. I understand from a game mechanics perspective why it's the way it is, but it just seems to go counter to what my understanding of the nature of the light or how the light should work.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, December 09, 2016, 14:26 (1010 days ago) @ dogcow

That's a really good question that keeps coming up. The Hive's entire philosophy is that one proves their worth and superiority through conflict and that the one left standing is the one who deserves to exist.

What have we done as Guardians so far that is any different than what the Hive are doing?

Mostly our Guardians have streamed out from Earth and killed anything that isn't us. And grown dramatically in power as we have done so. We have shown very little compassion or understanding or willingness to find a peaceful solution to our various conflicts. If the Traveler and the Sky is all about creating safe places for life to flurish... where exactly have us Guardians done that?

About the only altruistic things we've done that I can think of is the time we entered the Vault of Glass to save the Vex from Oryx's Taken power. And even then, Praedyth warned us that the Vex won't thank us for our actions.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Durandal, Friday, December 09, 2016, 15:11 (1010 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Your light grows with any XP buff, as well as with time. So while killing can increase the meter, so can exploration. I think that is more likely just a game mechanic than a story point. After all, the Darkness is the score keeper for the Hive, and it actively updates and improves them based on the killing rather then any intrinsic property of its space magic.

Guardians can use their light for any purpose, and don't need to kill in order to survive. Efrideet is part of a pacifistic sect, for example. Nor do our Ghosts compel us to kill in order to be strong. Most Guardians are not mindlessly slaughtering the Awoken in the Reef, for example. They can cooperate, amongst themselves as well as with others, with no determent to their abilities. The Hive cannot say the same. Cooperation does not really occur, only submission to those more powerful. Even Oryx's siblings compete with him to take the top spot.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, December 09, 2016, 15:29 (1010 days ago) @ Durandal

The Hive's response would be:

Yes, you are able to cooperate now with your rules and safety and social norms, but what will you do in a million or billion years when your solar system is used up and your sun is shriveling or explosively expanding. Will your social order remain as you flee to a new star system?

And what then? What if the next place you go is already occupied and you are almost out of fuel and air and water and the people you meet tell you no, you cannot swarm into their star system and take their resource. Will you and your people die a peaceful death content with your high minded social order, or will you fight to preserve your heritage and your children from extinction?

And even if you stick with your ideals, the cycle will eventually start over and those you deferred to will be in your place. Will they too make your noble sacrifice? If they choose to fight, won't your deaths be in vain?

Instead, the Hive have thrown off the lies of civility and have looked to the long game. Is it not better to get the killing over while we are strong and in charge of our own Destiny than wait until we are desperate and only have a thin hope of survival?

The only real way out for us is if the Sky and the Traveler actually has the power to alter reality or create new resources. If so, then destruction is not the only way forward, and peaceful coexistence can be a legitimate way of life.

I don't think we understand enough of what the Traveler did and how it did it yet to know we aren't ultimately on the losing side...

I'm sure the Stranger will explain all

by Oholiab, Friday, December 09, 2016, 15:45 (1010 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Given how we have been purging the solar system of enemies and black gardens, she should have plenty of time to explain when next we meet.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Durandal, Friday, December 09, 2016, 17:20 (1010 days ago) @ Ragashingo

The Hive presuppose scarcity. The Dakuna, the Ecumne, have massive stellar engineering projects that give lie to the premise that the Hive doomsday scenario exists. Even at the micro level Taox and the Krill survive the god wave thanks to her engine design.

The Hive live in fear of not having enough, and see the simple answer is to eliminate any "other" in order to reserve all resources for themselves. Logically this puts them at war with all other forms of life, hence the "War on Life" (XXII) card.

The other option, the hard path, is to change the rules so everyone can have enough. This is possible, and despite the often contrary media narrative is what has happened with modern mankind. Cooperation, not war, has enabled humanity to have science, and goods, and medicine. The Western way of property rights, negotiations and mutual benefit have grossly surpassed the ancient tribalism and might makes right of our early ancestors.

I suspect, that even the darkness started out this way. In that strange realm described in the Alpha Lupi cards, some super emo kid had enough and left to go into the normal universe. Once there he decided to be king, but never had to work his way up from the bottom. The odds of winning 100% of the time are so dramatically low they must approach zero. You can not be the strongest all the time. All life has vulnerabilities and moments of weakness. This "I'm going to kill my way to the top" plan just doesn't work.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by bluerunner @, Music City, Friday, December 09, 2016, 18:01 (1010 days ago) @ dogcow

This has huge parallels with our light meter. It grows with every kill, minion of the darkness or guardian. Are we sure we aren't bad? Do we understand the nature of the light & the darkness? I would think that our light meter should be tied to the life we give, not the life we take.

I think it would be ironic if our guns didn't shoot bullets, but instead squirted a healing salve that cured all wounds.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Friday, December 09, 2016, 18:16 (1010 days ago) @ bluerunner

This has huge parallels with our light meter. It grows with every kill, minion of the darkness or guardian. Are we sure we aren't bad? Do we understand the nature of the light & the darkness? I would think that our light meter should be tied to the life we give, not the life we take.


I think it would be ironic if our guns didn't shoot bullets, but instead squirted a healing salve that cured all wounds.

New Indie Game!

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YOU'RE POWERED UP, GET IN THERE!

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Friday, December 09, 2016, 20:57 (1010 days ago) @ bluerunner

This has huge parallels with our light meter. It grows with every kill, minion of the darkness or guardian. Are we sure we aren't bad? Do we understand the nature of the light & the darkness? I would think that our light meter should be tied to the life we give, not the life we take.


I think it would be ironic if our guns didn't shoot bullets, but instead squirted a healing salve that cured all wounds.

RIP my Arc Warlock with healing grenade...

+1 RvB

by EffortlessFury @, Friday, December 09, 2016, 21:42 (1010 days ago) @ bluerunner

- No text -

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+1 RvB

by bluerunner @, Music City, Friday, December 09, 2016, 22:04 (1010 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

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But the MOST ironic thing would be if

by Funkmon @, Saturday, December 10, 2016, 04:50 (1009 days ago) @ bluerunner

There was a shark who was telling his friends that he was a really good surfer, but they didn't believe him, so to prove to them he was a good surfer, he entered a surfing competition, but he was such a good surfer they thought he was a real surfer and so they ate him.

iirc.

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But the MOST ironic thing would be if

by Pyromancy @, Saturday, December 10, 2016, 05:30 (1009 days ago) @ Funkmon

[image]

[image]

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Pyromancy @, Friday, December 09, 2016, 21:33 (1010 days ago) @ dogcow
edited by Pyromancy, Friday, December 09, 2016, 21:51

This has huge parallels with our light meter. It grows with every kill, minion of the darkness or guardian. Are we sure we aren't bad? Do we understand the nature of the light & the darkness? I would think that our light meter should be tied to the life we give, not the life we take. I understand from a game mechanics perspective why it's the way it is, but it just seems to go counter to what my understanding of the nature of the light or how the light should work.


More observations:

"And they killed each other again and again, so that they could practice death."

We have a battleground/killing ground where we practice killing each other [and also practice death]
It is known as PvP

We don't actually die, we are nearly always able to be revived by our Ghost

The swords transformed, which we are able to use in game, crave death. The blades 3 are honed with killing/death which satiates their thrist

This is paperthin, and not literal, but interesting? Do the important traits of The Hive Triumvirate have huge parallels that could be drawn with our Guardian's class attributes?

Aurash / Auryx / Oryx = Warlock? / Smart, curious, secret seeker, astronomer, star explorer, long-sighted, logic
Sathona / Savathûn = Hunter? / Clever, cunning, knowledge, sharp mind, trickery, strategic
Xi Ro / Xivu Arath = Titan? / War, strength, destruction, conquer, triumph, brawn

(not sure if I've categorized correctly, could Hunter and Warlock possibly be interchanged?)

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, December 09, 2016, 23:26 (1010 days ago) @ Pyromancy

This has huge parallels with our light meter. It grows with every kill, minion of the darkness or guardian. Are we sure we aren't bad? Do we understand the nature of the light & the darkness? I would think that our light meter should be tied to the life we give, not the life we take. I understand from a game mechanics perspective why it's the way it is, but it just seems to go counter to what my understanding of the nature of the light or how the light should work.

More observations:

"And they killed each other again and again, so that they could practice death."

We have a battleground/killing ground where we practice killing each other [and also practice death]
It is known as PvP

We don't actually die, we are nearly always able to be revived by our Ghost

The swords transformed, which we are able to use in game, crave death. The blades 3 are honed with killing/death which satiates their thrist

Ooooh! That is a neat way to think of it. Seems reasonable to me!

This is paperthin, and not literal, but interesting? Do the important traits of The Hive Triumvirate have huge parallels that could be drawn with our Guardian's class attributes?

Aurash / Auryx / Oryx = Warlock? / Smart, curious, secret seeker, astronomer, star explorer, long-sighted, logic
Sathona / Savathûn = Hunter? / Clever, cunning, knowledge, sharp mind, trickery, strategic
Xi Ro / Xivu Arath = Titan? / War, strength, destruction, conquer, triumph, brawn

Yep, I like this too!

(not sure if I've categorized correctly, could Hunter and Warlock possibly be interchanged?)

Yeah, I'd make Oryx the Hunter. He is the explorer while Savathûn, like a Warlock, is the one who studied and analyzed the various powers that they possessed. Wizards are tricky, yes, but they are also the thinkers and "scientists" of the Hive. And yep, Xivu Arath is definitely a Titan.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Pyromancy @, Friday, December 09, 2016, 23:41 (1010 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Yeah, I'd make Oryx the Hunter. He is the explorer while Savathûn, like a Warlock, is the one who studied and analyzed the various powers that they possessed. Wizards are tricky, yes, but they are also the thinkers and "scientists" of the Hive. And yep, Xivu Arath is definitely a Titan.

Good thoughts, I like that.
The mental image I have conjured of Savathûn secretly holding a knife hidden behind her back while daring or goading Auryx/Oryx to freely strangle/kill her is 'such a Hunter move' to me for some reason.

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Bite-sized Backstory 16: Oryx's Pyramid Scheme

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, December 10, 2016, 00:34 (1010 days ago) @ Pyromancy

As a contrast, think of the knowledgeable but disturbingly creepy Toland the Shattered. He dove deep into Hive lore and culture and power and was something of an outcast because of it. When he went down as part of Eris' fire team he wasn't so much encouraging as he was morbidly practical about their chances of survival. Ultimately, he didn't die but instead survived among the Hive netherworlds sending back condescending notes about the things he was learning.

I could definitely see him holding a dagger behind his back on a fellow Guardian if they threatened to get in his way. (He'll be fun to talk about in depth when we eventually get to him!)

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