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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones? (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 08:28 (2508 days ago)

With the talk from Luke Smith about how Des2ny's narrative will be moving away from "The Darkness" as a specific foe and perhaps even a concept, it occurred to me today that "the Darkness" is somewhat baked into Destiny 1 on a mechanical level. The respawn mechanics are all based around the concept of Darkness Zones. If "The darkness" is basically gone from the game in Destiny 2, does that mean there will be no darkness zones? And if that is true, does that mean we'll see a fundamental change to the respawn mechanics, or will we just get more Darkness Zones, but with a different name?

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 08:39 (2508 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Funny enough, if you go watch footage from the DRE and E3 gameplay they even changed the dying screens to say "Your Light ran out"

Still no idea what they'll call darkness zones though, I don't recall seeing any indicators in the missions or strikes.

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It's identical to how it was in D1; "Respawning Restricted"

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 08:43 (2508 days ago) @ Xenos
edited by CyberKN, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 08:48

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 09:06 (2508 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I was under the understanding the move away was as a focal point, not that they were trying to retcon The Darkness. It still exists, it just isn't what Des2ny is focused on? So no reason not to still treat zones without Light different.

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 09:18 (2508 days ago) @ Harmanimus

I was under the understanding the move away was as a focal point, not that they were trying to retcon The Darkness. It still exists, it just isn't what Des2ny is focused on? So no reason not to still treat zones without Light different.

I think what you said is true, but Luke Smith literally said they were removing the term Darkness from the game entirely. He referenced its implementation in the first Destiny in all the UI stuff. "Increased [x] when killing minions of the Darkness" for killing any enemy, even when those enemies aren't minions of the Darkness, and things of the that nature. Darkness Zones could fit there, too, I guess. Maybe that's more of a misnomer than we realized.

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 09:24 (2508 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I was under the understanding the move away was as a focal point, not that they were trying to retcon The Darkness. It still exists, it just isn't what Des2ny is focused on? So no reason not to still treat zones without Light different.


I think what you said is true, but Luke Smith literally said they were removing the term Darkness from the game entirely. He referenced its implementation in the first Destiny in all the UI stuff. "Increased [x] when killing minions of the Darkness" for killing any enemy, even when those enemies aren't minions of the Darkness, and things of the that nature. Darkness Zones could fit there, too, I guess. Maybe that's more of a misnomer than we realized.

Which enemies aren't minions of the darkness? The mechanical stuff like shanks?

Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by EffortlessFury @, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 09:52 (2508 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I was under the understanding the move away was as a focal point, not that they were trying to retcon The Darkness. It still exists, it just isn't what Des2ny is focused on? So no reason not to still treat zones without Light different.


I think what you said is true, but Luke Smith literally said they were removing the term Darkness from the game entirely. He referenced its implementation in the first Destiny in all the UI stuff. "Increased [x] when killing minions of the Darkness" for killing any enemy, even when those enemies aren't minions of the Darkness, and things of the that nature. Darkness Zones could fit there, too, I guess. Maybe that's more of a misnomer than we realized.


Which enemies aren't minions of the darkness? The mechanical stuff like shanks?

I don't know if they've been clear about that fact, but the Fallen were once the chosen of the Traveller, the Cabal are a warmongering empire, and the Vex are trying to guarantee survival. Perhaps any or all of them are not technically minions of the darkness? (Lore aficionados can correct me where I'm wrong)

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by Striker, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 10:33 (2508 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

I was under the understanding the move away was as a focal point, not that they were trying to retcon The Darkness. It still exists, it just isn't what Des2ny is focused on? So no reason not to still treat zones without Light different.


I think what you said is true, but Luke Smith literally said they were removing the term Darkness from the game entirely. He referenced its implementation in the first Destiny in all the UI stuff. "Increased [x] when killing minions of the Darkness" for killing any enemy, even when those enemies aren't minions of the Darkness, and things of the that nature. Darkness Zones could fit there, too, I guess. Maybe that's more of a misnomer than we realized.


Which enemies aren't minions of the darkness? The mechanical stuff like shanks?


I don't know if they've been clear about that fact, but the Fallen were once the chosen of the Traveller, the Cabal are a warmongering empire, and the Vex are trying to guarantee survival. Perhaps any or all of them are not technically minions of the darkness? (Lore aficionados can correct me where I'm wrong)

Yeah pretty much. From past interviews, it sounds like the only race they want associated with "the darkness" (or whatever it'll be called) is the Hive.

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 11:50 (2508 days ago) @ Striker

I was under the understanding the move away was as a focal point, not that they were trying to retcon The Darkness. It still exists, it just isn't what Des2ny is focused on? So no reason not to still treat zones without Light different.


I think what you said is true, but Luke Smith literally said they were removing the term Darkness from the game entirely. He referenced its implementation in the first Destiny in all the UI stuff. "Increased [x] when killing minions of the Darkness" for killing any enemy, even when those enemies aren't minions of the Darkness, and things of the that nature. Darkness Zones could fit there, too, I guess. Maybe that's more of a misnomer than we realized.


Which enemies aren't minions of the darkness? The mechanical stuff like shanks?


I don't know if they've been clear about that fact, but the Fallen were once the chosen of the Traveller, the Cabal are a warmongering empire, and the Vex are trying to guarantee survival. Perhaps any or all of them are not technically minions of the darkness? (Lore aficionados can correct me where I'm wrong)


Yeah pretty much. From past interviews, it sounds like the only race they want associated with "the darkness" (or whatever it'll be called) is the Hive.

I don't think they've mentioned the Vex specifically, but I believe the Vex COULD be considered minions of the darkness, at least the faction we encounter in vanilla Destiny since they were straight up worshiping a big ol' goo ball of Darkness.

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 12:29 (2508 days ago) @ Xenos

Yeah, if anything the Vex are more aligned with the Darkness that the Hive. Except for Oryx, the Hive historically got limited access to the Darkness via Worm God / Ahamkara middlemen... Or at least that's my take

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 10:37 (2508 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I was under the understanding the move away was as a focal point, not that they were trying to retcon The Darkness. It still exists, it just isn't what Des2ny is focused on? So no reason not to still treat zones without Light different.


I think what you said is true, but Luke Smith literally said they were removing the term Darkness from the game entirely. He referenced its implementation in the first Destiny in all the UI stuff. "Increased [x] when killing minions of the Darkness" for killing any enemy, even when those enemies aren't minions of the Darkness, and things of the that nature. Darkness Zones could fit there, too, I guess. Maybe that's more of a misnomer than we realized.


Which enemies aren't minions of the darkness? The mechanical stuff like shanks?

Luke mentioned the Cabal specifically in the interview. It was that Kotaku Splitscreen interview, if I remember correctly.

I would also have to assume The Fallen. They were once uplifted by the Traveler, then abandoned. I don't think they're relevant to the Darkness.

I think this is exactly why they're removing the Darkness stuff from Destiny 2, for the most part. It was never clear, and it was just a term they used in the first game for "the bad guys," when that's not really true anymore.

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Shouldn't it be a Tower thought?

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 09:06 (2508 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

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I came to say this also.

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 10:09 (2508 days ago) @ Cody Miller

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 09:37 (2508 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

or will we just get more Darkness Zones, but with a different name?

I would bet anything on this. I seriously doubt that the narrative change of wanting to not use "The Darkness" as a concept would drive them as far as changing a basic mechanic like that. The alternative is that free-respawn exists all the time (at least, based on our current understanding of how a Destiny game works) - doesn't seem terribly likely.

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Today's shower thought: What will happen to darkness zones?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 12:27 (2508 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

With the talk from Luke Smith about how Des2ny's narrative will be moving away from "The Darkness" as a specific foe and perhaps even a concept, it occurred to me today that "the Darkness" is somewhat baked into Destiny 1 on a mechanical level. The respawn mechanics are all based around the concept of Darkness Zones. If "The darkness" is basically gone from the game in Destiny 2, does that mean there will be no darkness zones? And if that is true, does that mean we'll see a fundamental change to the respawn mechanics, or will we just get more Darkness Zones, but with a different name?

There are two things happening at once:

1. Destiny 2's story is focused on the Cabal's attack on The City. All the other story threads are on hold for now as we take back our home. Like, who cares what the few remaining members of the House of Devils is doing on Mars when we just lost our connection to the Traveler? Likewise, who cares that there's a mysterious force of ultimate evil... somewhere... but not here at the moment... when we've got immediate Cabal problems to deal with.

2. Destiny 1's development was rushed enough that for simplicity's sake all enemies were called minions of the Darkness. Luke has even said that they didn't have a good grasp on what the Darkness even was. I think they fixed the story side of that post House of Wolves. We see the result of a big story brainstorming session in The Taken King and the more specifically in the Books of Sorrow which do a good bit to define what the Darkness is and isn't.

Because of these two things, (1. The Darkness is not D2's immediate threat. 2. Bungie now has a real plan for what the Darkness is and isn't), Bungie is being more specific in things like tool tips and death screens. They can't just label all Humanity's enemies as "minions of the darkness" anymore because only the Vex and to a lesser extent the Hive are truly minions of the Darkness as far as we know.

Pessimistically, this is a story retcon. Optimistically, this could be thought of as The City working out who, specifically, its various enemies are and realizing that they aren't all one force of ultimate evil. Personally, I think the story is mostly intact and that it was the actual Darkness that hit us during the Collapse and that the Traveler drove away. I can't wait to see if I'm right. :)

good

by General Battuta, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 13:01 (2508 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Making the Darkness a mysterious cosmic threat but then labeling every other bubble as a 'Darkness Zone' was a huge ~ludonarrative~ misstep. If it's a mysterious force whose return we dread, why am I wading through it everywhere I go?

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good

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, July 05, 2017, 14:13 (2508 days ago) @ General Battuta

Making the Darkness a mysterious cosmic threat but then labeling every other bubble as a 'Darkness Zone' was a huge ~ludonarrative~ misstep. If it's a mysterious force whose return we dread, why am I wading through it everywhere I go?

I don't think that a darkness zone literally means that the Ultimate force behind the Darkness is present there… just that its reaches extend there in a small way.

I want my mind reading dragons please. Maybe for Destin3.

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