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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall (Destiny)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, August 30, 2013, 22:53 (3924 days ago)
edited by Ragashingo, Friday, August 30, 2013, 22:59

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Last Saturday we looked at Humanity’s Golden Age. It must have been one of the most exciting times to have been alive. The Youtube videos of The Traveler altering the planets of our solar system must have been glorious! And then it was all taken from us. This week, due to technical limitations, I’ll be splitting the Facts, Informed Suppositions, and Rampant Speculation about The Fall of Humanity between posts, hyperlinked for your convenience. Let’s get on with it shall we?

The Facts

Our civilization once spanned the solar system. Its ruins are still out there: buried in the dunes of Mars, hidden in the jungles of Venus, lost in a wild and abandoned Earth. For centuries we've huddled under the safety of the Traveler, protected from our enemies. Now, a new era has begun, and the only hope for our future lies in unlocking the greatest mysteries of our past.

Legends say The Traveler scarified itself to save us. The mysterious sphere still hangs where it made its last stand, low above the Earth, keeping silent watch. The years that followed the collapse of the Golden Age were hard, but slowly we joined together to build a city beneath The Traveler. And now we’ve begun to venture back into the wild only to find we’re not alone. Strange and deadly creatures have occupied our old worlds, and they’re pressing hard against The City, probing for a weakness, trying to stamp us out for good.

Something hit us. Knocked us down. Tried to stamp us out. No one knows exactly what, but we do know this: very few of us survived, and those who did owe their lives to the Traveler.

In our darkest days, Humans, Exos, and Awoken found The Traveler where it made its last stand, low above Earth, silent and immobile. We built this City – our last – within its protective Shield, fighting countless wars to keep its peace. From that dark age, the Guardians of the City were born.

Beyond the safety of our Walls, strange and deadly enemies now occupy our old worlds. Every day they grow bolder, probing the Traveler's shields for weaknesses, looking to stamp us out for good.

The first Titans built the Wall, and gave their lives to defend it.

The wilderness beyond the walls of the City are ruined and corrupted, claimed by nature and our enemies. From the war-torn fortresses of the Twilight Gap to the skyward steppes of Old Russia, evidence of our lost glory still litters the Earth, waiting to be rediscovered.

It's been years since they first made their presence known at the Twilight Gap. While early reports have them centered on or around Mars, the true might of the Cabal is still wrapped in speculation.

The Fallen are a scourge, tirelessly engaged in war against us and scavenging all that remains. They say their Houses have claimed every planet and moon we ever touched.

The blaze sits inside a nest of little worlds, still too distant to share its heat but plainly >staring out at you. A face emerges, drawn from plasmas and radiation…

There must be meaning in its roar.

You listen hard and carefully, and sometimes a lucid melody seems to rise out of >random noise, pulling your mind into moments where it seems possible that answers >are about to be revealed. Joy builds, and the first hope in ages transforms you.

It seems important, even critical, to tell every star from here to the black between the >galaxies that you are strong again.

Warlocks were the first to tap the power of the Traveler, wielding its light as they ventured beyond the safety of the Shield. They know each discovery offers new possibilities and may hold the key to our survival.

Hunters learned to survive the wild through crafty manipulation of the Traveler's energies. Some fear they are too dangerous, but it is their bravery that is leading us to the lost wonders of our Golden Age.

Titans have long honed the power of the Traveler, passing these skills to each new generation of warrior. Their strength gave birth to the City, and they have taken a blood oath to ensure it will always stand strong.

Continue On To Informed Suppositions

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Informed Suppositions

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, August 30, 2013, 22:54 (3924 days ago) @ Ragashingo
edited by Ragashingo, Friday, August 30, 2013, 23:09

What we do know is that The Traveler tried to save us. [image]Both the unreliable narrator in the Pathways out of Darkness video and text on Bungie’s website tells us that The Traveler saved us by making a last stand at Earth. There are further references to a shield of some kind that The Traveler has projected over The City, allowing Humanity to regroup from the devastating attack.

[image]We’ve seen tanks defending at least two Human space ports and we’ve clearly seen that the Russian populace tried to flee towards a space port. Was there something about the attack that made Humanity think that fleeing Earth would do any good?

The attack on Humanity doesn’t seem to have been limited to Earth though. Whether its through concept art or gameplay footage we’ve seen damaged buildings on most of the planets we once owned.
[image][image][image][image][image]

While it’s possible that it was the Cabal, Hive, Fallen, and Vex who devastated our other worlds, that doesn’t seem as likely. Surely Humanity, in the middle of its Golden Age, spread across the system, could hold off forces that The City can engage alone.

It seems likely that there was a good amount of time between The Traveler’s sacrifice and the arrival of The Fallen, Cabal, Hive, and Vex. Bungie’s website clearly tells us that we had time to find The Traveler and build The City beneath it. It also tells us that Exo and Awoken helped in the construction of The City. We know they are trusted enough to be Guardians, and this further reenforces the idea that they likely aren’t second class citizens.

Did any Humans survive outside the protection of The Traveler. We know that some, like the Awoken at the end of the E3 demo, survive outside of The City now and don’t want to be bothered, but what about just after the end of the attacks? Maybe there are a lot more like him scattered across Earth?

The Traveler’s shield likely protects The City from air attacks, and somehow stops enemy ships from jumping in like we saw in the public event. But what about ground attacks? Can The Traveler keep out ground forces? Does The City’s multiple walls give us an answer, or are they there just in case?

[image]The Alpha Lupi desktop seems to imply that The Traveler came to our system because it recognized that we were strong again. Was it The Traveler who drew all these other races to us, or did they come for us alone?

We know that The Traveler fought its last battle above Earth. Was that its only battle or did it have to drive our enemies off world by world?

The Traveler obvious took heavy damage and its shell seems cracked open in some pretty big sections, but is it accessible? If it can keep the enemy out can it do the same to us?

Back to The Facts
Continue on to Rampant Speculation

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Rampant Speculation

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, August 30, 2013, 22:54 (3924 days ago) @ Ragashingo
edited by Ragashingo, Friday, August 30, 2013, 23:17

The Traveler stopped whatever was attacking us, at least for a while. But if humans survived scattered across Earth, perhaps we also had remnants on other worlds. What happened to them? Could the Bridge of Chains or possibly even the Hive be glimpses of what happened to the rest of us? Maybe there are pockets of Humanity still in power elsewhere in the system?

The enemy that defeated us during our Golden Age must have been fairly powerful, but if it was totally overwhelming and it is still out there then won’t we eventually be crushed?[image] Or does access to The Traveler’s power give us an edge we didn’t have before? And does that edge only extend to ground engagements (Halo all over again?) or can Humanity wield The Traveler’s power on a larger scale?

If Humanity has a nearly unassailable base in The City why does it bother with Guardians and ground attacks? It’s said that an air force can’t hold terrain, but surely nukes or an introduction to the magic of orbital bombardment could do a lot to break our enemy’s hold on our worlds. We’re already going to have to dig though our past to find the secrets of our Golden Age. What’s a bit more digging in exchange to ending the threat posed by our enemies. Or at the very least, wouldn’t denying them access to our worlds be victory enough?

Instead of looking for the products of our Golden Age maybe we should be looking for whatever’s left of the enemy that knocked us down and stamped us out. Anything powerful enough to attack us and damage The Traveler, which is still one of the most powerful objects in the system even in its damaged state, would surely be very useful to us.

Why are our enemies probing us for weaknesses anyway?[image] They surely have more access to our Golden Age technology than we do and The Traveler seems unobtainable since it can apparently still defend The City as well as itself. So what would killing the last few million Humans get them that they don’t already have? If it’s The Traveler they want, how will removing the Humans beneath it bring them any closer to obtaining it or destroying it?

How do we know The Traveler isn’t the thing that tried to stamp us out? I can see a few different scenarios:

[image]What if The Traveler's job was to terraform ALL the planets of our system. Maybe we were grateful as it made the planets we didn’t live on habitable, but changed our minds when it began to change the Earth and a battle ensued?

Or maybe its entire goal was to get us to expand throughout our system developing cities and mining and production facilities before wiping us out to make way for whoever was coming to inherit the fruits of our labor. Maybe after we had expanded into a Golden Age it turned on us, but we proved powerful enough to save ourselves? …After a fashion…

Or maybe The Traveler was the friendly sphere we’re sorta being lead to believe it is right up until some idiot or group of idiots, be they terrorists or a legitimate government, attacked The Traveler. Perhaps the life giving sphere turned around and went all Iron Giant on us. In defending itself it could have nearly wiped us out until we were able to damage it enough to make it stop.

In all these cases I would think the shield The Traveler is generating over The City is more of an automated defense mechanism than a deliberate gift to us. And if it was Humanity that fought The Traveler, for one reason or another, maybe the aliens that hate us do so because they found out we had damaged The Traveler. Might be nice if our destruction really was the will of the gods this time around, right?

The deployment of tanks suggests that the enemy that knocked us down made landfall on Earth. It’s easy to imagine The Traveler destroying large starships in space but how did it deal with forces attacking us on the ground?

That’s all I’ve got this week, but I can’t help but feel something is missing… Oh, I know! It’s your ideas and comments! Be sure and leave them!

Next Saturday: The Fallen

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The Fallen are currently our most detailed foe, the one we know the most about, but can we glean anything new about them? I bet we can, and I hope you’ll join me next week for more Facts, Informed Supposition, and Rampant Speculation (and hyperlinks!) Until then:

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Back to The Facts
Back to Informed Suppositions

All Speculation Saturdays:
Speculation Saturday #1: The Golden Age
Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall
Speculation Saturday #3: The Fallen
Speculation Saturday #4: The City
Speculation Saturday #5: The Gameplay
Speculation Saturday #6: What's New?
Speculation Saturday #7: The Hive
Speculation Saturday #8: The Vex
Speculation Saturday #9: The Cabal

Rampant Speculation

by Nighend, Saturday, August 31, 2013, 19:10 (3923 days ago) @ Ragashingo

For a long time now, I've wondered if maybe whatever caused the Collapse was not the enemy of humanity, but rather of the Traveler itself, or the power behind it. The name "Traveler" could imply that it has visited many systems before ours, and perhaps attracted the attention of some sinister alien force, in opposition to the Traveler. Instead of terraforming systems to promote growth, it seeks to conquer them for itself.
Even if this isn't the case, the Traveler may have been partially responsible for the Collapse itself, simply by attracting the outside force with its terraforming.

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Rampant Speculation

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 31, 2013, 20:19 (3923 days ago) @ Nighend

Yep. At the bare minimum the Sol system went from one habitable planet to several. And yeah, I would agree the that The Traveler has probably traveled extensively.

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Rampant Speculation

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Sunday, September 01, 2013, 18:17 (3923 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Yep. At the bare minimum the Sol system went from one habitable planet to several. And yeah, I would agree the that The Traveler has probably traveled extensively.

What if the Traveler is an artifact from a civilization we've seen nothing else of yet? My thought is that the Traveler is a sort of terraforming drone that came to our system, and converted bodies in our system to be habitable, whether they be moons or planets, paving the way for the arrival of colony ships or the equivalent from its master race.

Now, the race could still exist, or could be extinct, and the Traveler could be carrying out all this work in vain. That aside, what if the Traveler had certain protocols to follow in maintaining the habitability of the bodies under its care?

What if humanity figured we just lucked out and took advantage of these newly terraformed (for free!) bodies? WOO GOLDEN AGE.

At a certain point, the environmental impact of our civilization would begin to degrade the habitability factor of these terraformed bodies. We could have tripped the Traveler's protocols and unwittingly initiated our own demise. The Traveler could have wrought havoc across the system and tried to stamp us out itself, simply following its protocols to maintain habitable environments for whenever its masters arrive. Letting nature reclaim all the "progress" we made.

Perhaps using its superior technology, it swept across our our colonies before we could react and burned us all the way down to the quick. Perhaps Earth just crippled it badly enough in the ensuing battle that it came to rest in its present location and couldn't fight any longer.

Now think about all the other opportunistic races that could have done the same thing Humanity did. The Fallen claim to have touched every place in the span of human civilization (paraphrasing). Maybe they just knew that program and swooped in after we'd been nuked to scavenge all our loot.

My guess is that maybe somehow someone in the city has determined either A) this whole truth, or at the very least B) that the Traveler is somehow continuing to wane in power, and that the City is on borrowed time, and the Guardians must venture out into the wilds in an attempt to either find a way to maintain the Traveler's power, or find a way for humanity to reach beyond Earth and begin the long slog to reclaim our system.

~M

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Rampant Speculation

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, September 01, 2013, 19:32 (3922 days ago) @ Malagate

I love this line of thinking. Why would we look up at the obviously damaged alien artifact hanging above our planet and place our trust in it? My first instinct would be to fear it!

Except, it does seem to be protecting The City. I think a good clue to look for will be how exactly Guardians get power from The Traveler. If it's some sort of process that The Traveler controls I'd put a bit more trust in its intentions. If it's more us Guardians tapping into its power or obviously stealing it then I'd be more wary. I'm personally hoping that The Traveler was / is on our side. It seems we have enough enemies already, I'd kinda like to have a friend, even if it is a silent one.

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Rampant Speculation

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Sunday, September 01, 2013, 20:12 (3922 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I love this line of thinking. Why would we look up at the obviously damaged alien artifact hanging above our planet and place our trust in it? My first instinct would be to fear it!

Except, it does seem to be protecting The City. I think a good clue to look for will be how exactly Guardians get power from The Traveler. If it's some sort of process that The Traveler controls I'd put a bit more trust in its intentions. If it's more us Guardians tapping into its power or obviously stealing it then I'd be more wary. I'm personally hoping that The Traveler was / is on our side. It seems we have enough enemies already, I'd kinda like to have a friend, even if it is a silent one.

I like the idea of the Traveler being a sort of failed 2001-style Monolith. Something that comes to our system to raise us up out of the dirt and into a glorious existence, terraforming planets and creating new life forms. But perhaps he made a mistake, perhaps even gods can overestimate their powers, and what became the Fallen, Cabal, etc. turned against their creator and each other. To make up for his woeful interference, the Traveler sacrifices himself so that humanity, the original inheritors of the Sol System, can survive against an onslaught of his failed creations.

I'd love to journey into the sphere, finding some last glimpse of this regretful presence, that with his last few breaths is still trying to bestow some advantages to City's Guardians. Maybe that's why its time we have to journey out again and reclaim the Sol System, because very soon, we'll be truly on our own.

It's not a symmetrical relationship

by scarab @, Sunday, December 15, 2013, 12:42 (3818 days ago) @ Nighend

The Darkness benefits from the Traveller's actions.

The T terraforms planets - the D's followers take them over.

It is not in the interests of the D's followers to destroy the T as it is a benefactor for them. It would be in their interests to make use of the D's help to surplant the T's current allies but not to the point of destroying the T. Their interests would be best served by encouraging the T to move on and Terraform other systems.

It may also be more beneficial for those who have been helped by the T to let go of narrow minded territoriality and to join with the D to force the T to move on so that they could colonise more systems. They would have to fight for the new systems and, perhaps, share them with others but a twenty percent stake in 5+ systems is a net gain. If guardians are very good at fighting then they would flourish under those conditions.

Could a T be reprogrammed or persuaded to make more Ts and to terraform uninhabited systems?

Is it rational to fight the Darkness? ^^^

by scarab @, Sunday, December 15, 2013, 12:45 (3818 days ago) @ scarab
edited by scarab, Sunday, December 15, 2013, 12:53

Can we have a Sith faction of humans? With sinister, dark, clothing?

Or several - dark versions of the other 3 classes. It fits with human nature ;-)

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It's not a symmetrical relationship

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, December 15, 2013, 14:09 (3818 days ago) @ scarab

The Darkness benefits from the Traveller's actions.

The T terraforms planets - the D's followers take them over.

It is not in the interests of the D's followers to destroy the T as it is a benefactor for them. It would be in their interests to make use of the D's help to surplant the T's current allies but not to the point of destroying the T. Their interests would be best served by encouraging the T to move on and Terraform other systems.

It may also be more beneficial for those who have been helped by the T to let go of narrow minded territoriality and to join with the D to force the T to move on so that they could colonise more systems. They would have to fight for the new systems and, perhaps, share them with others but a twenty percent stake in 5+ systems is a net gain. If guardians are very good at fighting then they would flourish under those conditions.

Could a T be reprogrammed or persuaded to make more Ts and to terraform uninhabited systems?

And yet a silent and damage Traveler hangs over the City. Maybe the Darkness caught up to the Traveler too soon? Maybe Humanity fought back too well or refused to be turned to the Darkness' side? Maybe this time the Traveler fought back where as before it just moved on?

My current view is that Humanity and the Traveler did not fight the four lesser races, but fought the Darkness itself and just barely won. I think it was only Humanity & Traveler vs the Darkness seeing as a greatly reduced Humanity is able to strike out against the four lesser races during modern day Destiny. One would think that Golden Age Humanity would be able to crush all four at once if the Darkness was not around.

During the battle it sounds like we put up a fight, but on our own would have been no match. We were killed and driven off our worlds and colonies throughout the solar system until a final battle occurred. As a result of that battle both the Traveler and the Darkness were badly hurt, neither one able to continue the fight. Fortunately for the Traveler it still had what was left of Humanity and settled over us to protect us, yes, but also in the hopes that we could help it. Unfortunately the Darkness has its own allies who it has called in. Maybe the four races we are fighting aren't so much here for us, not that killing us isn't the ultimate goal they just have no access to the City at this point, but they're here picking through the remains of our Golden Age in an effort to restore the Darkness in much the same way as we are trying to restore the Traveler.

Perhaps now it's a race between Humanity and the allies of the Darkness to see who can piece their benefactor back together first.

Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by yakaman, Saturday, August 31, 2013, 08:25 (3924 days ago) @ Ragashingo

"Legends say The Traveler sacrificed itself to save us. The mysterious sphere still hangs where it made its last stand, low above the Earth, keeping silent watch. The years that followed the collapse of the Golden Age were hard, but slowly we joined together to build a city beneath The Traveler. And now we’ve begun to venture back into the wild only to find we’re not alone. Strange and deadly creatures have occupied our old worlds, and they’re pressing hard against The City, probing for a weakness, trying to stamp us out for good"

First - I love these, and your image analysis.

How did the Traveler save us? Were the baddies an overwhelming force that it wiped up/reduced? If so, why don't the baddies just wait for reinforcement?

I can think of a few possibilities (in addition to the space magic boon the Traveler apparently gives Guardians):

  • "Safe Zone" - The Traveler creates a safe zone underneath which the baddies cannot go. This gave humanity a fallback and a place to gather strength. Since this does not prohibit baddie reinforcements, there would be effectively unlimited baddies. Difficult to overcome, even with the safe zone.
  • "Level Playing Field" - The baddies do not have FTL transport, or somehow limited FTL transport. The Traveler's sacrifice reduced their numbers to the scale of humanity, allowing humans to be competitive.
  • "Closed Arena" - The Traveler's sacrifice closed off the solar system from the rest of the galaxy, preventing reinforcements and emphasizing humanity's home field advantage.

TL:DR - Because humanity is so reduced and destroyed there has to be a story mechanism that limits baddie numbers in some way, and the specific nature of the Traveler's sacrifice may provide a story mechanism to explain.

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 31, 2013, 08:41 (3924 days ago) @ yakaman

First - I love these, and your image analysis.

Thanks! :)


How did the Traveler save us? Were the baddies an overwhelming force that it wiped up/reduced? If so, why don't the baddies just wait for reinforcement?

I can think of a few possibilities (in addition to the space magic boon the Traveler apparently gives Guardians):

  • "Safe Zone" - The Traveler creates a safe zone underneath which the baddies cannot go. This gave humanity a fallback and a place to gather strength. Since this does not prohibit baddie reinforcements, there would be effectively unlimited baddies. Difficult to overcome, even with the safe zone.

One of the quotes tells us that Titans died defending the wall, so I'm thinking that baddies can land elsewhere and hoof it, but air and space travel around The Traveler is highly dangerous / impossible. Also since The City seems to be built on the island of the Philippines you'd have to get even more creative to attack it since it appears (with a bit of fumbling in Google Earth) that The Traveler would be in view overhead from any landing spot on the island.

  • "Closed Arena" - The Traveler's sacrifice closed off the solar system from the rest of the galaxy, preventing reinforcements and emphasizing humanity's home field advantage.

I hadn't thought of that one. It's a neat idea that The Traveler's influence extends well beyond Earth. I like it! :)

Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by yakaman, Saturday, August 31, 2013, 11:06 (3924 days ago) @ Ragashingo

One of the quotes tells us that Titans died defending the wall, so I'm thinking that baddies can land elsewhere and hoof it, but air and space travel around The Traveler is highly dangerous / impossible. Also since The City seems to be built on the island of the Philippines you'd have to get even more creative to attack it since it appears (with a bit of fumbling in Google Earth) that The Traveler would be in view overhead from any landing spot on the island.

Titans are the warrior class of Guardians, right? Yes - it would then make sense that the Traveler would prohibit attack from air, but even with the awesome walls of the last city the baddie numbers would have to be addressed. Meaning, even the highest walls can be overcome by numbers.

So maybe "Safe Zone" + "Level Playing Field"....

I hadn't thought of that one. It's a neat idea that The Traveler's influence extends well beyond Earth. I like it! :)

It also would provide a gating mechanism for future expansion.

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, August 31, 2013, 11:15 (3924 days ago) @ yakaman

It also would provide a gating mechanism for future expansion.

The old leaked Destiny contract talked about or referred to DLC as comets. Almost pure rampant speculation here, but maybe enemy forces are indeed blocked from entering our system but found a way to follow / ride comets in. Comets being naturally occurring objects that The Traveler might have marked as non-threats. By following them in from outside The Traveler's block maybe they cold then move about more freely.

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Durandal, Monday, September 02, 2013, 17:43 (3922 days ago) @ Ragashingo

The damage to the Traveler seems largely to be on the bottom half, the area most likely subject to attack from the ground. It seems there could be something to the last stand having been primarily involving ground forces. I cannot imagine such a mighty force that can do so much damage being destroyed without a trace. We've seen the ruins of human war machines in several pictures, but not other races. Why?

If there was some massive civil war, why would the Traveler bother to intervene? Why now, and not at the other times human forces have battled during the Golden Age?

I prefer the idea of an outside power opposing the rise of humanity and the Traveler's mysterious aims in aiding us. Clearly, the galaxy is not devoid of life. If the various alien races are scavenging the ruins of humanity, for centuries if the quotes are accurate, then they cannot be sufficiently powerful in their own right. Otherwise the ability to mastermind the destruction of a solar system filled with people implies that they would have the resources to strip the conquered planets of everything of value in a relatively short time.

My thought is the current forces arrayed against humanity are the vultures of the universe, following along in the wake of the lion and stealing the scraps left behind.

So the real enemy has yet to reveal themselves. Yet from the art we've seen so far, we can deduce the following:

1. The enemy targeted humanity specifically, not caring about abandoned ships, cities, war material etc.
2. Humans thought they could escape via conventional (for the time) colony ships.
3. Humans fought using conventional weapons, i.e. tanks, planes, guns which only works if the enemy is somewhat susceptible to said weapons.
4. The fall took long enough that the great wall in old russia could be built, and was considered a viable defense.
5. Humans tried to escape from Earth, yet the last known survivors are on Earth with the Traveler.
6. There is no debris from the force that engaged Humanity and the Traveler. Otherwise we would know more about them.

It would seem then that the enemy, for whatever reason liked to deploy units from orbit to the ground and did not engage in mass orbital bombardment, or maybe used WMDs sparingly (the cars outside old russia could have been hit by neutron bombs).

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, September 02, 2013, 17:53 (3922 days ago) @ Durandal

Huh.

Just thought about this: you're assuming the current bottom side of the Traveler has always been facing down. What if it was struck by such an orbital bombardment, got 'wrecked' while saving us, then turned the 'good' side up to keep up defenses?

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, September 02, 2013, 18:46 (3922 days ago) @ ZackDark

Yep. While we have no evidence of this, I'd like to think this is what has happened.

Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Fuertisimo, Tuesday, September 03, 2013, 22:43 (3920 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Yep. While we have no evidence of this, I'd like to think this is what has happened.

From looking at it I always felt like the bottom of the traveler was falling away due to good old fashioned gravity. I figure it got damaged, and over time the bottom started looking the worst of it because pieces are literally falling away in some of the pictures. Could be the Traveler is too damaged to upkeep or repair itself so, stuff is just over time (decades) slowly falling away.

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"Something is falling towards you...

by Pyromancy @, discovering fire every week, Tuesday, September 03, 2013, 22:56 (3920 days ago) @ Fuertisimo

From looking at it I always felt like the bottom of the traveler was falling away due to good old fashioned gravity. I figure it got damaged, and over time the bottom started looking the worst of it because pieces are literally falling away in some of the pictures. Could be the Traveler is too damaged to upkeep or repair itself so, stuff is just over time (decades) slowly falling away.

...or are you falling towards it?"

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, September 02, 2013, 18:45 (3922 days ago) @ Durandal

I prefer the idea of an outside power opposing the rise of humanity and the Traveler's mysterious aims in aiding us. Clearly, the galaxy is not devoid of life. If the various alien races are scavenging the ruins of humanity, for centuries if the quotes are accurate, then they cannot be sufficiently powerful in their own right. Otherwise the ability to mastermind the destruction of a solar system filled with people implies that they would have the resources to strip the conquered planets of everything of value in a relatively short time.

Right. What have these races been doing in our system for the past hundreds of years? If they just wanted our technology it seems like there'd be plenty in the ruins of our colonies. Why bother with the human city protected by the giant alien sphere at all? Either they're here specifically to wipe us out, or they want The Traveler and feel they can't get it (to protect it / destroy it / worship it / whatever) until they get rid of us. Or maybe something else is at work that we don't understand….

4. The fall took long enough that the great wall in old russia could be built, and was considered a viable defense.

The wall wasn't necessarily built after the fall started. Judging by its somewhat happy logo and the fact that its advertising says "Forward" or some such non-doom message I'd think the wall was built for other purposes. The recent Gamescon card about Old Russia, talked about how that spaceport was where man reached beyond the Earth and noting its promise (in the hopeful sense) is long gone. Perhaps it was built because of international tensions or because there were just too many wanting to colonize other planets. I don't think, however, it was built while Earth was under attack.

6. There is no debris from the force that engaged Humanity and the Traveler. Otherwise we would know more about them.

At least none that Bungie has told us about yet. I hope we do find remnants of the fall scattered about. Also, it's possible that races like The Fallen have already cleaned up most of said debris. I mean, if they can jump large warships and smaller dropships in above Old Russia why wouldn't they have scavenged the enemy's debris by now?

It would seem then that the enemy, for whatever reason liked to deploy units from orbit to the ground and did not engage in mass orbital bombardment, or maybe used WMDs sparingly (the cars outside old russia could have been hit by neutron bombs).

It's hard to say. All we've really seen of Earth beyond The City is one huge, tough looking wall, and a ton of old, possibly nuked cars. If the bulk of the enemy's forces were orbiting ships maybe they were smashed badly enough by The Traveler that the remains deorbited and largely burnt up / were lost in the oceans / scavenged by other races who apparently have at least some access to Earth's surface. The surviving enemy forces could have then retreated to where we wouldn't be able to easily find them.

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Wednesday, September 04, 2013, 11:06 (3920 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Some possibilities that have been rolling around in my head:
- I wonder if it's something like Titan AE, where a small part of some alien race decided that Humanity was growing too strong during the golden age and wanted to wipe us out.
- I'm thinking the pyramid aliens might be part of the race that tried to wipe us out which is why they aren't going to be featured as one of our main opponents initially - we need time to gather strength.
- During their attack, people were trying to flee the solar system.
- Perhaps some got away and are further out in the universe to be discovered during the sequel?
- Somehow we got the traveller to intervene.
- Perhaps someone figured out how to control it?
- Or, perhaps the humans in destiny have forgotten, the traveller was a human creation all along and we sacrificed it to save ourselves. If that were the case, then the Traveller would likely have been some kind of top-secret project and everyone on board was killed in the final battle so that nobody knew it's true origins. Again, I'm thinking something kind of like Titan AE - the Titan was designed to create/terraform planets in that movie which is pretty similar to what the traveller did.

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, September 04, 2013, 14:45 (3920 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

I do like me some Titan AE. Strangely though I don't own it… I keep meaning to buy it and keep forgetting… Anyway, yeah. Good ideas!

- Somehow we got the traveller to intervene.

I hadn't considered the idea that perhaps Humanity requested The Traveler's aid. I'd always thought of it as seeing our destruction and intervening. But we were a Golden Age system spanning people. It seems very possible if not tipping the scale slightly towards likely that our distress signals to each other, if not to The Traveler itself, are the things that got The Traveler's attention.

- Perhaps someone figured out how to control it?

That would be intriguing and a bit scary. Off that idea come the idea that controlling it was a bad thing and no wonder a group of aliens are now mad at us. It would also answer the question of what killing the last few million Humans would accomplish that killing the first several billion didn't.

- Or, perhaps the humans in destiny have forgotten, the traveller was a human creation all along and we sacrificed it to save ourselves. If that were the case, then the Traveller would likely have been some kind of top-secret project and everyone on board was killed in the final battle so that nobody knew it's true origins. Again, I'm thinking something kind of like Titan AE - the Titan was designed to create/terraform planets in that movie which is pretty similar to what the traveller did.

Yep. I'm thinking The Traveler was alien since it fits with my theory it is the thing that gave us FTL capability, but I agree that we can't rule out it being of Human design. Since it doesn't seem to have been designed in our system that would make its origin that much more interesting.

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Durandal, Wednesday, September 04, 2013, 18:12 (3920 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Bungie seems pretty consistent in portraying the Traveler as an outside force. The viddocs show it coming in system from the outer dark, and the Traveler's arrival ushered in the Golden Age. So if Humanity built it, that would seem to remove that large element of mystery and magic.

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Speculation Saturday #2: The Fall

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Thursday, September 05, 2013, 07:24 (3919 days ago) @ Durandal

Probably true, chalk it up to Rampant Speculation.

Although if they wanted to Bungie could have it made by some ancient humans, forerunners if you will, to make it a bit more mysterious.

:)

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Hehe. Exactly. :p

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Thursday, September 05, 2013, 07:46 (3919 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

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