So sharp and clean (Destiny)

by scarab @, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 13:58 (3917 days ago)

I'm not normally one to obsess over graphics - I expect today's wow to be tomorrows "so what?" but that is one Sharp Dressed Exo.

I thought that Destiny had less detailed models than Halo 4 because it had to run on a wider range of hardware and 343i seems to have gone all out for detail at the expense of world size (and gameplay).

But looking at that Exo... And the background behind him... wow the detail!

Ok, the rubbish on the floor is a bit amorphous and some of the the cables are rather segmented but everything else is extremely crisp. I like that.

Bungie's worlds are a feast for the eyes.

I think this is what Bungie wanted to do for Halo 2 (with their sharp stencil shadows) still no real time reflections on visors but maybe on the new consoles...

Talking of which - what machine produced that image? A PC? Next gen console? 360?!? Android telephone? ;-)

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So sharp and clean

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 14:09 (3917 days ago) @ scarab

Yep. I'm really liking the look of all the Guardian types. It's going to take a long time just to choose what I want to play as first! Those high detail trench coats though… They're calling to me!

Talking of which - what machine produced that image? A PC? Next gen console? 360?!? Android telephone? ;-)

[image]

So sharp and clean

by scarab @, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 14:30 (3917 days ago) @ Ragashingo
edited by scarab, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 14:34

Yep. I'm really liking the look of all the Guardian types. It's going to take a long time just to choose what I want to play as first! Those high detail trench coats though… They're calling to me!

I thought that Hunter was a no-brainer and that Exos were so old hat after X years of Master Chief but now I'm not so sure.

I wonder if they would do a full blown, more mechanical, Exo? More like the original Exo postcard image. I quite like the idea of exposed pistons and cable sinews but not too steam punk; more like 30's/40's/50's Sci-Fi illustrations or Ralph McQuarrie-esque.

Talking of which - what machine produced that image? A PC? Next gen console? 360?!? Android telephone? ;-)


[image]

I hear that the next supported platform is one of these and it will still be full 1080p.

Edit - and Kelly Freas

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So sharp and clean

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 14:37 (3917 days ago) @ scarab

I wonder if they would do a full blown, more mechanical, Exo? More like the original Exo postcard image. I quite like the idea of exposed pistons and cable sinews but not too steam punk; more like 30's/40's/50's Sci-Fi illustrations or Ralph McQuarrie-esque.

I am hoping some of the helmets/visors will let you see the Exo's face in the final game. It's kind of a strange problem sci-fi has always had, do we make them look realistically covered for the environment and situation, or show off the character?

So sharp and clean

by scarab @, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 15:22 (3916 days ago) @ Xenos

I am hoping some of the helmets/visors will let you see the Exo's face in the final game. It's kind of a strange problem sci-fi has always had, do we make them look realistically covered for the environment and situation, or show off the character?

The Mass Effect conundrum. Now if an Exo could have a mechanical face then (s)he wouldn't need the helmet.

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So sharp and clean

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, September 07, 2013, 15:25 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

The Mass Effect conundrum. Now if an Exo could have a mechanical face then (s)he wouldn't need the helmet.

Not true. Sensitive material could be placed at the head, like vision and processing/soul, so that the head would need plenty of protection.

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So sharp and clean

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 15:27 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

I am hoping some of the helmets/visors will let you see the Exo's face in the final game. It's kind of a strange problem sci-fi has always had, do we make them look realistically covered for the environment and situation, or show off the character?


The Mass Effect conundrum.

No kidding. My favorite was the Mass Effect 2 Death Mask. It greatly boosted your paragon / renegade speech scores by 100% completely covering your face. :p

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So sharp and clean

by Mr Daax ⌂ @, aka: SSG Daax, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 15:30 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

I wonder if they would do a full blown, more mechanical, Exo? More like the original Exo postcard image. I quite like the idea of exposed pistons and cable sinews but not too steam punk; more like 30's/40's/50's

If my Exo can't look like this, I will be a very sad Guardian
[image]

Yes Who needs a hood when you have a face like that

by scarab @, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 15:45 (3916 days ago) @ Mr Daax

or a helmet with a skull painted on it?

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So sharp and clean

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 12:15 (3916 days ago) @ Ragashingo

[image]

Cool. I've got one of those in the closet. It will be neat to play old school Marathon and Destiny on the same machine.

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So sharp and clean

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 14:16 (3916 days ago) @ Kermit

[image]


Cool. I've got one of those in the closet. It will be neat to play old school Marathon and Destiny on the same machine.

I think I might have to upgrade the RAM on mine.

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So sharp and clean

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 14:35 (3916 days ago) @ Xenos

[image]


Cool. I've got one of those in the closet. It will be neat to play old school Marathon and Destiny on the same machine.


I think I might have to upgrade the RAM on mine.

Well, you could do that. That Performa 6205CD could, according to ancient Golden Age records, hold up to 64MB of memory. But! There is a better solution!

[image]

Basically an early, hacked in version of Virtual Memory back when Mac OS didn't have it. The later version of RAM Doubler didn't just make your Mac think it had twice as much memory, it could trick it into thinking it had 3x the memory!!! And it really worked too! Well… most of the time…

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So sharp and clean

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 15:23 (3915 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I think I might have to upgrade the RAM on mine.


Well, you could do that. That Performa 6205CD could, according to ancient Golden Age records, hold up to 64MB of memory. But! There is a better solution!

[image]

Basically an early, hacked in version of Virtual Memory back when Mac OS didn't have it. The later version of RAM Doubler didn't just make your Mac think it had twice as much memory, it could trick it into thinking it had 3x the memory!!! And it really worked too! Well… most of the time…

I owned that! I remember having that box. Man times have changed.

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So sharp and clean

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 14:47 (3916 days ago) @ Kermit

Be still my heart.

The PowerMac 6100/60 AV is the machine I first played Pathways and Marathon on, back in 7th grade.

~M

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So sharp and clean

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 16:53 (3915 days ago) @ Malagate

I thought something looked odd about it. I stand corrected. I've got a 7100 I the closet.

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Sort of sharp and clean.

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 16:33 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

The textures are phenomenal, the polygon count on that exo is a lot higher than what you'd expect from a typical PS360 titles, and there's not a great deal of spatial aliasing. Either the shot was taken from next-gen consoles, a decent PC, or it's a bullshot.

As for "clean", those strong chromatic aberrations are making me skeptical. This is clean. (thanks, NeoGAF supersampling thread!) That Destiny screenshot could pass as an offscreen image from a CRT with rather messed-up convergence. Hopefully the effect looks neat in motion when you're playing; Bungie's graphics people talked about it as being a significant part of the "idealized reality" art style. I'd be sad to see the studio finally release a title capable of absolutely stellar image quality, only to smear the colour planes about in a non-groovy manner.

Woah.

by Atsumi ⌂, Jefferson City, MO, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 20:23 (3916 days ago) @ uberfoop

Thanks for sharing that thread. Definitely want to try that out on some older games to see what it does for them. Hopefully my PC can handle it at least somewhat.

Sort of sharp and clean.

by xgeua, Saturday, September 07, 2013, 21:12 (3916 days ago) @ uberfoop

Bungie's graphics people talked about it as being a significant part of the "idealized reality" art style.

Where is this from? I don't remember Bungie ever mentioning 'Siggraph'.

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Sort of sharp and clean.

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 00:19 (3916 days ago) @ xgeua

Bungie's graphics people talked about it as being a significant part of the "idealized reality" art style.

Where is this from? I don't remember Bungie ever mentioning 'Siggraph'.

It's from the 2013 SIGGRAPH event. It was one of the courses. Here's the SIGGRAPH page for it, and here's a course page where you can find the presentation files.

I discovered it thanks to a post by the user AlNets on Beyond3D.

So he's called The Crow?

by scarab @, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 02:26 (3916 days ago) @ uberfoop

Still reading that PDF you linked to.

3 comments I want to make now.

#1: People don’t like to spend a lot of time in dismal, hostile places.

That's one reason that I don't play Halo 4 (in particular FuD). Bungie gets this.

The key to the Destiny approach is the highly compressed and flexible G-Buffer representation. At 96 bits per pixel, this means we can use a resolution up to 1200 x 720 on the XBOX 360, without any tiling.

Since they probably wont tile: we can assume 1200 x 720 on that platform.

We had to come up with a subsurface scattering model that would support alien characters such as the crow

The accompanying picture shows the black haired exotic who says that he talks with his gun.

So he's, probably, the dude known as, "The Crow". (Though that name could be subject to change by the time the game is released.)

Are Exotics aliens?

by scarab @, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 02:51 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

I thought that they were people who lived out in the wilds and had been changed (perhaps by radiation exposure).

I was thinking of the (50s?) Sci-Fi trope: mutant humans with exotic, extra, abilities. (Perhaps an extra, telepathic, head in their arm pits. Or something.)

If they are aliens (I'm still undecided) then what makes them different from the other aliens?

  • Did they come with/inside the Traveler?
  • Just more reasonable?
  • ??? What do you think?

Will they be player characters? When I first heard of them I thought that they were another option orthogonal to the: Hunter, Warlock, Exo options. Now I think that they are just another race that we encounter.

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*Awoken

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, September 08, 2013, 03:05 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

Will they be player characters? When I first heard of them I thought that they were another option orthogonal to the: Hunter, Warlock, Exo options. Now I think that they are just another race that we encounter.

Maybe both?

They can be Guardians?

by scarab @, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 03:30 (3916 days ago) @ ZackDark

What do they care about the city? Do they get invited in? Would they want to be?

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They can be Guardians?

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 03:42 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

What do they care about the city? Do they get invited in? Would they want to be?

The only thing we know about them is they are one of the 3 playable races: Human, Exo, Awoken. They talk about it a little in the GDC talk from earlier this year.

They can be Guardians?

by scarab @, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 04:05 (3916 days ago) @ Xenos

I get it now, it's a 3x3 matrix


_____________________________________
       |         |         |         |
       | Hunter  | Warlock |  Titan  |
_______|_________|_________|_________|
Human  |         |         |         |
_______|_________|_________|_________|
Exo    |         |         |         |
_______|_________|_________|_________|
Awoken |         |         |         |
_______|_________|_________|_________|

Given the masks and hoods and gloves they wear - how do we tell a Human Hunter from an Awoken Hunter or Exo or... ?

If Exos had mechanical hands and metal skulls then they wouldn't need gloves or masks.

Have we seen non-Human Guardians in game play vids?

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They can be Guardians?

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 11:25 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

I get it now, it's a 3x3 matrix


_____________________________________
|         |         |         |
| Hunter  | Warlock |  Titan  |
_______|_________|_________|_________|
Human  |         |         |         |
_______|_________|_________|_________|
Exo    |         |         |         |
_______|_________|_________|_________|
Awoken |         |         |         |
_______|_________|_________|_________|

Given the masks and hoods and gloves they wear - how do we tell a Human Hunter from an Awoken Hunter or Exo or... ?

If Exos had mechanical hands and metal skulls then they wouldn't need gloves or masks.

Have we seen non-Human Guardians in game play vids?

I think from looking at the hands and maybe even the face in the E3 demo that the Hunter is an Exo. I could of course be mistaken.

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So he's called The Crow?

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 08:28 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

The key to the Destiny approach is the highly compressed and flexible G-Buffer representation. At 96 bits per pixel, this means we can use a resolution up to 1200 x 720 on the XBOX 360, without any tiling.


Since they probably wont tile: we can assume 1200 x 720 on that platform.

Not necessarily. That's what was labelled the maximum; there are a number of reasons they might want to use a smaller buffer. They also said that Reach uses 96 bits per pixel in a seemingly comparable scheme, and that game is running at 1152x720.

So he's called The Crow?

by BOLL ⌂ @, Sweden, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 13:21 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

Heh... the thing in the PDF that sucked up my attention was...

Destiny Engine Technical Goals
* 5 Platforms
** Xbox 360, Xbox ONE, PS3, PS4 and PC (studio-wide development platform)

It is probably just for development, but again, the engine does exist :P perhaps it only works on their workstations though, hehe. At least it's not an impossibility.

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So he's called The Crow?

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 14:16 (3916 days ago) @ BOLL

It is probably just for development, but again, the engine does exist :P perhaps it only works on their workstations though, hehe. At least it's not an impossibility.

I am expecting them to act like Rockstar on this, don't acknowledge a PC version until the console versions are ready.

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Out here in the wild, it can't rain all the time.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 14:55 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

[image]

[image]

I expect Photoshops.

~M

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Out here in the wild, it can't rain all the time.

by Leviathan ⌂, Hotel Zanzibar, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 19:08 (3915 days ago) @ Malagate

Image blocked by Angelfire?? I think i just had a flashback to the 90's...

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Hey, as long as it isn't that damn frozen frog...

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, September 08, 2013, 19:54 (3915 days ago) @ Leviathan

- No text -

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Da fuuuuh? Works fine for me.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Monday, September 09, 2013, 13:35 (3915 days ago) @ Leviathan

- No text -

Da fuuuuh? Works fine for me.

by Claude Errera @, Monday, September 09, 2013, 14:05 (3915 days ago) @ Malagate

Of course it does - because you've seen it once.

Anyone who hasn't sees an Angelfire placeholder.

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Da fuuuuh? Works fine for me.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Monday, September 09, 2013, 15:54 (3914 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Of course it does - because you've seen it once.

Anyone who hasn't sees an Angelfire placeholder.

I'M A BUSY MAN I CANNOT BE BOTHERED WITH SUCH TRIVIALITIES

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Shopped

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Monday, September 09, 2013, 22:13 (3914 days ago) @ Malagate

[image]
Because everything looks better in a top hat.


And I'm spent. 'night all!

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Shopped

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Monday, September 09, 2013, 22:23 (3914 days ago) @ Beorn

That's perhaps the highest-potential trolling image ever.

Somewhere, somehow, I have faith that there is a context for it.

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/me smiles with evil crueljuleilty :)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, September 09, 2013, 22:28 (3914 days ago) @ uberfoop

- No text -

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So sharp and clean

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 10:25 (3916 days ago) @ scarab
edited by Cody Miller, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 10:31

I think this is what Bungie wanted to do for Halo 2 (with their sharp stencil shadows) still no real time reflections on visors but maybe on the new consoles...

Throw in a semi automatic, gas operated 12 gauge shotgun with a collapsable buttsock and pistol grip, and you've got the game of the year! :-p

So sharp and clean

by scarab @, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 13:19 (3916 days ago) @ Cody Miller

What the hell is a buttsock, and what sort of man needs one in combat? Sounds like some sort of hideous combination of a wind sock and a diaper. In my mind's eye I see a platoon of Marines in full battle regalia, gamboling across the fields with brightly-colored buttsocks flapping cheerfully in the breeze.

That's pretty much what I was thinking.

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So sharp and clean

by bluerunner @, Music City, Sunday, September 08, 2013, 14:49 (3916 days ago) @ scarab

What the hell is a buttsock, and what sort of man needs one in combat? Sounds like some sort of hideous combination of a wind sock and a diaper. In my mind's eye I see a platoon of Marines in full battle regalia, gamboling across the fields with brightly-colored buttsocks flapping cheerfully in the breeze.


That's pretty much what I was thinking.

[image]

So sharp and clean

by NotTheVacuum, Monday, September 09, 2013, 05:52 (3915 days ago) @ bluerunner

All jokes aside, so much this. There are a couple of reasons you might select manual action for a shotgun these days (price, simplicity, non-lethal ammo) but this really shouldn't be an issue 500 years into the future. Benelli specifically has a great gas-operated semi-auto (ARGO system on the M4) and as that original poster said, it's already in service today. Benelli's ID semi-autos are rock-solid, too (I've shot the SBEII a few times, over 1000 rounds I'd guess, with zero failures) but if you ever needed to fire it in a non-standard shooting position, the action may not cycle reliably (it's recoil-dependent).

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So sharp and clean

by bluerunner @, Music City, Monday, September 09, 2013, 06:31 (3915 days ago) @ NotTheVacuum

I agree, but I've always chalked it up to gameplay balance. I think they just wanted a powerful slow firing close quarters weapon and went with a pump action. We got a semi automatic shotgun with the mauler, and some people will argue that it had balance issues.

I've never looked to Halo to give me realistic weapons. I could point out major real world flaws with most of the human arsenal, but instead I just enjoy it for what it is.

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