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Starside Lounge, Episode 34.5 (Warmind) (DBO)

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 12:42 (1582 days ago)

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears!

Xenos and I were able to stumble our way into the recording booth for yet another riveting episode of The Starside Lounge podcast! And it hasn't even been a year since the last one! Perhaps blizzards in April are good for getting podcasts done. :)

This time, community guest Ragashingo joins Xenos, Claude, and me to talk about "Warmind," the next Destiny 2 Expansion coming on May 8th. Also, there might be some anime talk.

Anyway, Episode 14 34.5 should be filtering its way through the internet tubes as you read this, so give it a listen on your favorite podcast player, or via the YouTube link below.

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starside lounge

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It does still exist!!

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 12:44 (1582 days ago) @ Beorn

- No text -

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+1

by Dame117 @, Missouri, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 19:23 (1580 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

- No text -

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The grudge-match

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 12:48 (1582 days ago) @ Beorn

For those of you who want to see the accidental DBO Crimson Doubles that we were talking about toward the end:

And the immediate aftermath:

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The grudge-match

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 12:50 (1582 days ago) @ Beorn

Beorn has these videos on a thumb drive that he keeps on his person at all times.

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Nah…

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 12:57 (1582 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

Just my massive, always-online, accessible-from-anywhere-in-the-world, network-attached disk storage system…

[image]

Also, YouTube is pretty handy for that sort of thing. :)

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Nah…

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 13:49 (1582 days ago) @ Beorn

Just my massive, always-online, accessible-from-anywhere-in-the-world, network-attached disk storage system…

Also, YouTube is pretty handy for that sort of thing. :)

It's piratically the same difference at this point!

Do you really have that one?

by ChrisTheeCrappy, Wednesday, April 18, 2018, 13:48 (1581 days ago) @ Beorn

I have the 4 bay one, and freaking love it.

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There are many like it…

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Wednesday, April 18, 2018, 17:13 (1581 days ago) @ ChrisTheeCrappy

…but this one is mine.

I have had nothing but exceptionally good experience with Synology units. Highly recommended.

Are you my brother?

by ChrisTheeCrappy, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 13:46 (1580 days ago) @ Beorn

Yea, I love mine to death. But damn, that's a lot of HD's there!


Seriously why do we think almost the exact same on Tech stuff? Same TV, same Backups, are you my brother?

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We have good taste

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 13:58 (1580 days ago) @ ChrisTheeCrappy

Seriously why do we think almost the exact same on Tech stuff? Same TV, same Backups, are you my brother?

I'll, uh, have to ask my mom about the brother thing…

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We have good taste

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:00 (1580 days ago) @ Beorn

I've got the same display panel if not the exact same model TV. Maybe I'm a cousin?

Long lost cousin Kermit?

by ChrisTheeCrappy, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:41 (1580 days ago) @ Kermit

Just buy a Synology and you can officially join our Cult.

We have good taste

by ChrisTheeCrappy, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:41 (1580 days ago) @ Beorn

Haha, I wouldn't trust her, would you admit to leaving the second son?

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It's cute

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 05:52 (1580 days ago) @ Beorn

It's cute that some of you think they WON'T shortchange the Rasputin storyline. Look at Osiris. Case closed.

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It's cute

by breitzen @, Kansas, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 06:34 (1580 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It's cute that some of you think they WON'T shortchange the Rasputin storyline. Look at Osiris. Case closed.

To be fair, Rasputin is a much larger story thread than Osiris was/is. Does it mean they'll deliver? Not necessarily, but I think everyone knows the stakes have never been higher. #CaseNotClosed

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It's cute

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 07:35 (1580 days ago) @ breitzen

It's cute that some of you think they WON'T shortchange the Rasputin storyline. Look at Osiris. Case closed.


To be fair, Rasputin is a much larger story thread than Osiris was/is. Does it mean they'll deliver? Not necessarily, but I think everyone knows the stakes have never been higher. #CaseNotClosed

I say this while fully hoping that the story turns out decent, but at this point in Destiny’s lifespan, it’s one hell of a long-shot. I don’t think that’s being negative or pessimistic, simply realistic. The writing in every Destiny release so far has been terrible, with the exception of TTK which was ok (I’m talking in-game narrative here, not lore/grimoire stuff which is often fantastic). And I’m specifically not saying “IMO” here because I’m not just talking about subjective tastes. I’m talking about all the basics of storytelling, building a narrative, creating compelling characters... Destiny has largely been a complete failure in all these regards, with any exceptions bring few, far between, and relatively minor.

So for Warmind to suddenly succeed in telling a great story is certainly possible, but I see no reason to expect such a turnaround.

Again, I truly do hope that Warmind turns out different than previous entries in terms of storytelling. I just think that getting our hopes up in this specific area is just asking to be disappointed.

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It's cute

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 08:01 (1580 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Again, I truly do hope that Warmind turns out different than previous entries in terms of storytelling. I just think that getting our hopes up in this specific area is just asking to be disappointed.

I think even us on the podcast are not saying we expect in any reasonable terms that the story is going to be amazing, I think mostly we want lore and actual meaningful story content about Rasputin/the Warminds. That doesn't mean I expect that the story will be good.

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It's cute

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 08:35 (1580 days ago) @ Xenos

Again, I truly do hope that Warmind turns out different than previous entries in terms of storytelling. I just think that getting our hopes up in this specific area is just asking to be disappointed.


I think even us on the podcast are not saying we expect in any reasonable terms that the story is going to be amazing, I think mostly we want lore and actual meaningful story content about Rasputin/the Warminds. That doesn't mean I expect that the story will be good.

So I've fallen down a little bit of a lore rabbit hole this morning, and I was actually about to come here and ask for clarification/insight from all of you. I've been reading about the state of Destiny's lore (not the content of the lore itself, but how it is being handled now compared to D1), and there are a few threads that jumped out at me.

First of all, Bungie's Lead Narrative writer has stated that the "grimoire is considered folklore, even to the inhabitants of the universe: true as far as they & we know!". This was stated in contrast to the comment that the new Osiris comics are considered "canon".

This is significant to me. It means we can/should expect the games going forward to contradict or deviate from D1's grimoire (but not from the Osiris comics?). It appears to me that Bungie is giving themselves wiggle-room to retcon or ignore established lore if and when they choose to.

Then, I saw someone on reddit mention that the D1 grimoire is no longer available on Bungie's website. I hadn't heard this before, and found it difficult to believe, so I went to check for myself. If it is still there, I certainly can't find it. Can anyone here clarify this? Do we know for sure if the grimoire is still available on Bungie's site?

If the grimoire truly is gone from Bungie's site, then that only reinforces my interpretation that all of Destiny's current lore and backstory is considered "fair play" to be changed or ignored.

There's a very cynical interpretation here that goes something like "Hey, all that lore that you know and love? Well none of that is necessarily real in the Destiny universe anymore. If you want to know the real backstory, you've gotta pay for it (ie buy the comics)". It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there is someone in the publishing side of all this that is thinking along these lines, but I doubt its the primary motivation. More likely, I think, is that Bungie's writing team largely changed between D1 and D2, and the current writers don't want to be tied down by the world-building of the previous writers. Long-going franchises see this kind of thing all the time. New writers come on board and undo/retcon/ignore a bunch of the previous team's work, only to then leave before completing their story and have some of their work retconned/ignored by the next writing team, and so on.

All this to say, the way I'm reading the tea-leaves is making me think that expanding on Destiny's lore in the fascinating and meaningful ways that we saw with D1's grimoire doesn't look to be where the studio is taking things at the moment. I think the closest equivalents that we will actually get are things like the adventure on Nessus where we meet "the captain", or the quest in Curse of Osiris where we learn the fate of Saint 14. It looks to me like those missions are the extent of "lore building" in Destiny 2 in the immediate future.

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It's cute

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 08:44 (1580 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

It's true the Grimoire is no longer accessible on Bungie.net. I have no idea why, but I also don't think that it's because they plan on making any big changes to the lore. If anything (especially combined with the comment about it being folklore) I think they are trying to more get across the idea that just because a story or idea is in the grimoire or lore does not mean that it's going to be in-game in the future. (A lot of people assumed that because some stories aren't finished in the Grimoire that it would be picked up in future content) I seriously doubt they are going to go and retcon anything major in the Grimoire. A lot of it would actually take work to purposefully retcon that would be unnecessary for DLC.

Now, on the point of lore and story building, as we talked about a little on the podcast, the lore in Destiny 2 is honestly on par with the lore in Destiny 1, it's just not as easy to find. This does annoy me a lot as I mentioned since they talked about making the lore easier to access by putting in game, but they did the opposite unintentionally by making it incredibly difficult to find a specific piece of lore. But there is a lot of good lore added even in CoO, you just have to find the items that have it.

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It's cute

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:03 (1580 days ago) @ Xenos

It's true the Grimoire is no longer accessible on Bungie.net. I have no idea why, but I also don't think that it's because they plan on making any big changes to the lore. If anything (especially combined with the comment about it being folklore) I think they are trying to more get across the idea that just because a story or idea is in the grimoire or lore does not mean that it's going to be in-game in the future. I seriously doubt they are going to go and retcon anything major in the Grimoire. A lot of it would actually take work to purposefully retcon that would be unnecessary for DLC.

Now, on the point of lore and story building, as we talked about a little on the podcast, the lore in Destiny 2 is honestly on par with the lore in Destiny 1, it's just not as easy to find. This does annoy me a lot as I mentioned since they talked about making the lore easier to access by putting in game, but they did the opposite unintentionally by making it incredibly difficult to find a specific piece of lore. But there is a lot of good lore added even in CoO, you just have to find the items that have it.

One of the comments I've seen from a few people is that the move to take the lore out of "text on a website" and put it "in the game" actually makes it less digestible. Because having it all on a webpage that you could return to and read at your leisure was ultimately more convenient than having little scattered pieces of dialog attached to specific pieces of geometry or lone missions throughout the whole game.

Of course, "put the grimoire in the game" was one of the loudest and most repeated cries from the community from the very beginning. But I think its a perfect example of a situation where the players see room for genuine improvement, but don't think their criticism through fully enough to understand what they actually want. I think a common reaction to D1 went something like this:

1) Player goes through the campaign, is struck by the lack of a fleshed-out or compelling story
2) Player starts reading the grimoire and finds loads of compelling pieces of story, fascinating concepts, mysterious and engaging characters
3) Player says "Why isn't this in the game?"
4) Bungie reads this over and over and says "I guess players want the grimoire in the game!"

But in reality, it was never the grimoire itself that needed to be in the game. It was the mystery, the tone, the gravitas, the sense of history and scope and scale. It was the way characters in the grimoire would actually reflect on the nature of who they were and what they were doing. It was the way concepts like "what does it really mean to be a guardian" were explored. Players wanted those elements woven into the core narrative of the game... but they still wanted it to be a core narrative (whether or not they knew they wanted it). Because that's the kind of stuff that makes a great story, and the grimoire showed promise of it constantly.

To its credit, I think this is an area where D2 did very well. The adventures are great little pieces of world-building that tell some fascinating little stories. Back when TTK launched and Bungie first started talking about the Live Team, that was exactly the kind of content I was hoping for from them. If we got a new spattering of adventures every couple months, I'd be thrilled. We don't need to be saving the galaxy with every single release. There's so much room to tell fascinating little stories in the Destiny universe. D2 took a great step in the right direction there at launch, and I'd love to see Bungie lean into that potential way more.

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It's cute

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:09 (1580 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

While it's true that there were people saying that they wanted those kinds of stories in-game, the vast majority of people asking for the Grimoire in-game literally wanted access to the lore without having to access a separate device. Destiny 2 technically fulfilled that, just not at all in a satisfactory way.

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It's cute

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:10 (1580 days ago) @ Xenos

While it's true that there were people saying that they wanted those kinds of stories in-game, the vast majority of people asking for the Grimoire in-game literally wanted access to the lore without having to access a separate device. Destiny 2 technically fulfilled that, just not at all in a satisfactory way.

That's definitely true as well. Some sort of codex/journal/library where you can access the text in-game would have been ideal, I think.

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Ingame Lore (cause I'm tired of that last subject title)

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:15 (1580 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

It would have been fine if there was still a way to search all the items' lore through a website of some sort. Yes, that would partially get rid of the excitement of finding lore on items and how to relate to it, but there are a lot of people who love digging into lore (looking at you raga).

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Ingame Lore (cause I'm tired of that last subject title)

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:21 (1580 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

It would have been fine if there was still a way to search all the items' lore through a website of some sort. Yes, that would partially get rid of the excitement of finding lore on items and how to relate to it, but there are a lot of people who love digging into lore (looking at you raga).

Here's a million dollar idea:

You still need to find the lore in-game by scanning items with your ghost or playing specific quests or adventures.

Once you've "unlocked" a lore item, a text version becomes available in the "lore database" (either in-game, through a website, or both).

But here's the real ticket: Your whole clan shares the lore-unlock process. So if you find a lore-item out in patrol and scan it, the database item is unlocked for your whole clan, along with a location marker on a map so they can go find it for themselves if they want to.

$$$


;)

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Ingame Lore

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:28 (1580 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by MacAddictXIV, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:33

It would have been fine if there was still a way to search all the items' lore through a website of some sort. Yes, that would partially get rid of the excitement of finding lore on items and how to relate to it, but there are a lot of people who love digging into lore (looking at you raga).


Here's a million dollar idea:

You still need to find the lore in-game by scanning items with your ghost or playing specific quests or adventures.

Once you've "unlocked" a lore item, a text version becomes available in the "lore database" (either in-game, through a website, or both).

But here's the real ticket: Your whole clan shares the lore-unlock process. So if you find a lore-item out in patrol and scan it, the database item is unlocked for your whole clan, along with a location marker on a map so they can go find it for themselves if they want to.

That would work for me.

Maybe, but...

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 09:47 (1580 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

It's true the Grimoire is no longer accessible on Bungie.net. I have no idea why, but I also don't think that it's because they plan on making any big changes to the lore. If anything (especially combined with the comment about it being folklore) I think they are trying to more get across the idea that just because a story or idea is in the grimoire or lore does not mean that it's going to be in-game in the future. I seriously doubt they are going to go and retcon anything major in the Grimoire. A lot of it would actually take work to purposefully retcon that would be unnecessary for DLC.

Now, on the point of lore and story building, as we talked about a little on the podcast, the lore in Destiny 2 is honestly on par with the lore in Destiny 1, it's just not as easy to find. This does annoy me a lot as I mentioned since they talked about making the lore easier to access by putting in game, but they did the opposite unintentionally by making it incredibly difficult to find a specific piece of lore. But there is a lot of good lore added even in CoO, you just have to find the items that have it.


One of the comments I've seen from a few people is that the move to take the lore out of "text on a website" and put it "in the game" actually makes it less digestible. Because having it all on a webpage that you could return to and read at your leisure was ultimately more convenient than having little scattered pieces of dialog attached to specific pieces of geometry or lone missions throughout the whole game.

Of course, "put the grimoire in the game" was one of the loudest and most repeated cries from the community from the very beginning. But I think its a perfect example of a situation where the players see room for genuine improvement, but don't think their criticism through fully enough to understand what they actually want. I think a common reaction to D1 went something like this:

1) Player goes through the campaign, is struck by the lack of a fleshed-out or compelling story
2) Player starts reading the grimoire and finds loads of compelling pieces of story, fascinating concepts, mysterious and engaging characters
3) Player says "Why isn't this in the game?"
4) Bungie reads this over and over and says "I guess players want the grimoire in the game!"

But in reality, it was never the grimoire itself that needed to be in the game. It was the mystery, the tone, the gravitas, the sense of history and scope and scale. It was the way characters in the grimoire would actually reflect on the nature of who they were and what they were doing. It was the way concepts like "what does it really mean to be a guardian" were explored. Players wanted those elements woven into the core narrative of the game... but they still wanted it to be a core narrative (whether or not they knew they wanted it). Because that's the kind of stuff that makes a great story, and the grimoire showed promise of it constantly.

Really, I always felt like it wasn't an either/or thing; my problem was not that the Grimoire was collected in cards that you could read on a website, it's that it WASN'T IN THE GAME. I don't want them to REMOVE the cards - I want them to INTEGRATE THE CARDS. (Well, the content on the cards.)

I STILL want the cards on a website outside the game. Hell, I've spent the past couple of decades aggregating hard-to-find content in Bungie games and putting them on websites, and I LOVE the idea of them doing the work themselves. I just don't want it UNIQUELY outside the game.

D1 had most of the lore in Grimoire cards, accessible only outside the game. D2 has lore accessible only INSIDE the game. I want both.

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That, and . . .

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 11:08 (1580 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Even though I didn't engage with it very much personally, I liked the Grimoire score aspect and that whole system. I'd still like to see a system like that return.

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Maybe, but...

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 11:27 (1580 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Really, I always felt like it wasn't an either/or thing; my problem was not that the Grimoire was collected in cards that you could read on a website, it's that it WASN'T IN THE GAME.

The problem with the criticism is that it is misinterpreted. This is why Bungie removed the grimoire cards and simply put the lore on weapons. Literally in the game.

But that's not what I think people mean. They want the lore integrated into the game's story to produce a better narrative.

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It's both.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 11:49 (1580 days ago) @ Cody Miller

But that's not what I think people mean. They want the lore integrated into the game's story to produce a better narrative.

It's undoubtedly both. Tons of folks literally just wanted the actual grimoire cards to be accessible in the game. Tons of folks wanted the actual narrative of the Destiny campaign to be as well written as the stuff in the grimoire. I suspect tons of people want both.

Look no farther than Mass Effect. A well told story through the campaign and side quests, and a massive codex giving us the history of that world. That's certainly what I want.

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It's both.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, April 23, 2018, 13:28 (1576 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Look no farther than Mass Effect. A well told story through the campaign and side quests, and a massive codex giving us the history of that world. That's certainly what I want.

And all of that was wasted on me because the game was so terrible I gave up midway through the first mission :-p

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It's both.

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Monday, April 23, 2018, 13:51 (1576 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Look no farther than Mass Effect. A well told story through the campaign and side quests, and a massive codex giving us the history of that world. That's certainly what I want.


And all of that was wasted on me because the game was so terrible I gave up midway through the first mission :-p

Go straight to ME2. I missed 1 when it came out, then played 2 and absolutely loved it. So I went back and tried 1, and thought “same great writing, but this one sure plays like crap!”, lol.

2 is a bit dated now, but I think it is still appreciable.

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Let me get this straight . . .

by cheapLEY @, Monday, April 23, 2018, 17:08 (1576 days ago) @ Cody Miller

You love Vanquish but think Mass Effect sucks?

I don't think we can be friends anymore, Cody. :P

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It's cute

by breitzen @, Kansas, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 08:36 (1580 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

It's cute that some of you think they WON'T shortchange the Rasputin storyline. Look at Osiris. Case closed.


To be fair, Rasputin is a much larger story thread than Osiris was/is. Does it mean they'll deliver? Not necessarily, but I think everyone knows the stakes have never been higher. #CaseNotClosed


I say this while fully hoping that the story turns out decent, but at this point in Destiny’s lifespan, it’s one hell of a long-shot. I don’t think that’s being negative or pessimistic, simply realistic. The writing in every Destiny release so far has been terrible, with the exception of TTK which was ok (I’m talking in-game narrative here, not lore/grimoire stuff which is often fantastic). And I’m specifically not saying “IMO” here because I’m not just talking about subjective tastes. I’m talking about all the basics of storytelling, building a narrative, creating compelling characters... Destiny has largely been a complete failure in all these regards, with any exceptions bring few, far between, and relatively minor.

So for Warmind to suddenly succeed in telling a great story is certainly possible, but I see no reason to expect such a turnaround.

Again, I truly do hope that Warmind turns out different than previous entries in terms of storytelling. I just think that getting our hopes up in this specific area is just asking to be disappointed.

I guess I just don't like the (very internet-y) stigma of polarization. I'm very much with you here Cruel, I "hope" it's a good story, that they deliver a solid narrative, but the bar is set low. I guess I just feel like someone says "hope" and people jump on them for it. In reaction, many of us fire back, and then we end up in a negative place without good discussion based on expectations. (I'm guilty of this, and I'm sorry for stoking that fire)

I didn't listen to the podcast and think, wow these guys are convinced Warmind is going to be an awesome story. What I came away with was "They've been building up Rasputin for 4 years (in-game, not just lore) so there is room for a really great story there."

A note about hope and expectations: I will never tell someone to not hope. Cruel, you even said you are "fully hoping that the story turns out decent." Let's not pounce on people's hope (or even concern!) before understanding expectations.

<3 you all.

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It's cute +1

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 08:38 (1580 days ago) @ breitzen

Well said :)

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It's cute

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 13:58 (1580 days ago) @ breitzen

It's cute that some of you think they WON'T shortchange the Rasputin storyline. Look at Osiris. Case closed.


To be fair, Rasputin is a much larger story thread than Osiris was/is. Does it mean they'll deliver? Not necessarily, but I think everyone knows the stakes have never been higher. #CaseNotClosed


I say this while fully hoping that the story turns out decent, but at this point in Destiny’s lifespan, it’s one hell of a long-shot. I don’t think that’s being negative or pessimistic, simply realistic. The writing in every Destiny release so far has been terrible, with the exception of TTK which was ok (I’m talking in-game narrative here, not lore/grimoire stuff which is often fantastic). And I’m specifically not saying “IMO” here because I’m not just talking about subjective tastes. I’m talking about all the basics of storytelling, building a narrative, creating compelling characters... Destiny has largely been a complete failure in all these regards, with any exceptions bring few, far between, and relatively minor.

So for Warmind to suddenly succeed in telling a great story is certainly possible, but I see no reason to expect such a turnaround.

Again, I truly do hope that Warmind turns out different than previous entries in terms of storytelling. I just think that getting our hopes up in this specific area is just asking to be disappointed.


I guess I just don't like the (very internet-y) stigma of polarization. I'm very much with you here Cruel, I "hope" it's a good story, that they deliver a solid narrative, but the bar is set low. I guess I just feel like someone says "hope" and people jump on them for it. In reaction, many of us fire back, and then we end up in a negative place without good discussion based on expectations. (I'm guilty of this, and I'm sorry for stoking that fire)

I didn't listen to the podcast and think, wow these guys are convinced Warmind is going to be an awesome story. What I came away with was "They've been building up Rasputin for 4 years (in-game, not just lore) so there is room for a really great story there."

A note about hope and expectations: I will never tell someone to not hope. Cruel, you even said you are "fully hoping that the story turns out decent." Let's not pounce on people's hope (or even concern!) before understanding expectations.

<3 you all.

Right. And wasn't the discussion mostly about Raga's fear that they'll waste this great backstory material by not giving it the attention it deserves? I did not get the impression that anyone was overly optimistic. There's a big difference in saying "I think it's going to be great" and "I hope it's great."

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Don't take Claude to movies

by breitzen @, Kansas, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 11:17 (1580 days ago) @ Beorn

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.

TWICE! IT'S HAPPENED TWICE!

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 11:19 (1580 days ago) @ breitzen

Well, I guess if you count micronaps, it's more than twice. But really, I mostly watch what I come to watch.

Sometimes.

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Don't take Claude to movies

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 13:19 (1580 days ago) @ breitzen

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.

Whatever you do, don't take him the Furious movies.

Wait, why not?

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 13:34 (1580 days ago) @ Kermit

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.


Whatever you do, don't take him the Furious movies.

I've never seen any of 'em! Why would I fall asleep at what are generally considered to be exciting movies that I'd be seeing for the first time?

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Wait, why not?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 13:51 (1580 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.


Whatever you do, don't take him the Furious movies.


I've never seen any of 'em! Why would I fall asleep at what are generally considered to be exciting movies that I'd be seeing for the first time?

Fly to Speedracer's with a sleep deficit, eat a big lunch, and then try to watch one. That's all I'm saying.

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Good times man.

by breitzen @, Kansas, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 13:54 (1580 days ago) @ Kermit

Let's get together again. PAX West this year?

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Good times man.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:33 (1580 days ago) @ breitzen

Let's get together again. PAX West this year?

I might not make it to PAX, but I want to hang out with y'all.

Wait, why not?

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:08 (1580 days ago) @ Kermit

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.


Whatever you do, don't take him the Furious movies.


I've never seen any of 'em! Why would I fall asleep at what are generally considered to be exciting movies that I'd be seeing for the first time?


Fly to Speedracer's with a sleep deficit, eat a big lunch, and then try to watch one. That's all I'm saying.

Dude... I watched you fall asleep playing Destiny. I don't think our sleep issues are comparable. :)

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Wait, why not?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:22 (1580 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.


Whatever you do, don't take him the Furious movies.


I've never seen any of 'em! Why would I fall asleep at what are generally considered to be exciting movies that I'd be seeing for the first time?


Fly to Speedracer's with a sleep deficit, eat a big lunch, and then try to watch one. That's all I'm saying.


Dude... I watched you fall asleep playing Destiny. I don't think our sleep issues are comparable. :)

Can confirm... I witnessed it over party chat lol

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Wait, why not?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:33 (1580 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.


Whatever you do, don't take him the Furious movies.


I've never seen any of 'em! Why would I fall asleep at what are generally considered to be exciting movies that I'd be seeing for the first time?


Fly to Speedracer's with a sleep deficit, eat a big lunch, and then try to watch one. That's all I'm saying.


Dude... I watched you fall asleep playing Destiny. I don't think our sleep issues are comparable. :)

That was launch night I believe. I really wanted to play.

But it's true, man. In all seriousness keeping a regular sleep schedule has always been an issue for me and it's not getting easier. The cold hard truth is that as I get older there's more crap going on with my body that wakes me up when I don't want to wake up. (Hope that's not TMI.)

What's bumming me out lately is that I'm more frequently having to choose my health over gaming with you all. :(

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Wait, why not?

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:34 (1580 days ago) @ Kermit

Every time Claude has talked about going to the theater he's talked about falling asleep.


Whatever you do, don't take him the Furious movies.


I've never seen any of 'em! Why would I fall asleep at what are generally considered to be exciting movies that I'd be seeing for the first time?


Fly to Speedracer's with a sleep deficit, eat a big lunch, and then try to watch one. That's all I'm saying.


Dude... I watched you fall asleep playing Destiny. I don't think our sleep issues are comparable. :)


That was launch night I believe. I really wanted to play.

But it's true, man. In all seriousness keeping a regular sleep schedule has always been an issue for me and it's not getting easier. The cold hard truth is that as I get older there's more crap going on with my body that wakes me up when I don't want to wake up. (Hope that's not TMI.)

What's bumming me out lately is that I'm more frequently having to choose my health over gaming with you all. :(

That's only just now happening with you Kermit!? I started doing that a couple years ago!

Me too. :(

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 14:53 (1580 days ago) @ Kermit

What's bumming me out lately is that I'm more frequently having to choose my health over gaming with you all. :(

What happened Tuesday? You joined the party, but disappeared before the game finished and we could get you in - and then it looked like you weren't online any more!

(You could solve the 'I can't game with you because you play so late' problem by moving west, you know.)

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Me too. :(

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, April 19, 2018, 15:17 (1580 days ago) @ Claude Errera

What's bumming me out lately is that I'm more frequently having to choose my health over gaming with you all. :(


What happened Tuesday? You joined the party, but disappeared before the game finished and we could get you in - and then it looked like you weren't online any more!

I was using the phone app to see who was in the party (I was going to send a message) and didn't realize you could now join the party through the app (which is supercool, but not what I meant to do).

(You could solve the 'I can't game with you because you play so late' problem by moving west, you know.)

Odds are that won't happen, but it's not like I haven't thought about it. :)

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Is it bad thing that ...

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, April 23, 2018, 14:13 (1576 days ago) @ Beorn

what I kept rewinding to make sure I heard were the anime recommendations? (I'm still not sure I heard them correctly.)

I've been trying to get into it for years. I liked Ghost in the Shell, the movies I've seen of Hayao Miyazaki, and an occasional series (Haibane Renmei). It's such a massive category, though, and that's a bit like saying, "I ate some food I liked, once."

I might corner Xenos or breitzen sometime and pick your brain.

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