Renown should be a permanent addition.

I’ve been having a lot of fun during this Faction Rally. Cody and I have spent a few hours planet hopping and hunting coins. I’ve come to really love the Renown system. It encourages player participation in a really great way, in terms of encouraging engagement with the patrol activities. It also allows the player to customize their challenge level through the stacking mechanic (I’d like to see it go higher!).

I’d love to see it be a permanent addition to the game to develop the patrol gameplay loop. To alleviate folks not wanting to have to deal with the Renown system during normal play, I would propose that each planetary vendor get a Renown card (like the Nightfall card) that you could pick up and then activate at will if you feel like doing it. Or possibly give each planet a Renown emblem that you can use as a toggle, which would also track your 5x stack Lost Sector completions.

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Yeah. Part of what's been so fun is that I am going into all these lost sectors I've never been, in a fragile state so I can't just wreck.

I think renown should be uncapped, with the rewards going exponentially higher while you get exponentially weaker. Your only limit is how much you want to stack.

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

Ah, I see now. (I can be a little naive sometimes when thinking about ways to break the game. :) )

Easy solution: difficulty is set for ALL characters based on the HIGHEST Renown in the group. Incentivizes standardizing. :)

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

Ah, I see now. (I can be a little naive sometimes when thinking about ways to break the game. :) )

Easy solution: difficulty is set for ALL characters based on the HIGHEST Renown in the group. Incentivizes standardizing. :)

I don’t really see it as a problem. As it is now, you can run with 2 others who have no renown who can just wreck the lost sector. But they don’t get bonus tokens. So, if someone wants to stack renown, then why not let 2 friends do it with none? They won’t get the rewards.

Or else just make it fireteam based rather than individual. Everyone has the same stack. But if someone dies, that means others lose it too :-) The amount you lose could likewise scale exponentially with how much you have. With a high enough stack, dying would wipe it all out. This would make the choice of how much to stack strategic and meaningful.

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

Ah, I see now. (I can be a little naive sometimes when thinking about ways to break the game. :) )

Easy solution: difficulty is set for ALL characters based on the HIGHEST Renown in the group. Incentivizes standardizing. :)

I don’t really see it as a problem. As it is now, you can run with 2 others who have no renown who can just wreck the lost sector. But they don’t get bonus tokens. So, if someone wants to stack renown, then why not let 2 friends do it with none? They won’t get the rewards.

Or else just make it fireteam based rather than individual. Everyone has the same stack. But if someone dies, that means others lose it too :-) The amount you lose could likewise scale exponentially with how much you have. With a high enough stack, dying would wipe it all out. This would make the choice of how much to stack strategic and meaningful.

Could have the amount of tokens dropped be an even split of the total tokens distributed from that cached based on everyone's cumulative Renown?

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

Ah, I see now. (I can be a little naive sometimes when thinking about ways to break the game. :) )

Easy solution: difficulty is set for ALL characters based on the HIGHEST Renown in the group. Incentivizes standardizing. :)

I don’t really see it as a problem. As it is now, you can run with 2 others who have no renown who can just wreck the lost sector. But they don’t get bonus tokens.

The problem is the player with 5 renown gets bonus tokens but didn't actually do anything, so it completely removes the gameplay modification renown is making. As far as I can tell, the Renown 5 player doesn't even have to shoot anything. (Although maybe they do? I did not test this precise scenario, I was just looking to see if having a low renown player in the instance tearing things up disqualified the chest from dropping the extra tokens for the high-renown player or not... and it doesn't.)

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Does it automatically apply renown to all Fireteam members? I mostly have to run solo on PC. Because if it is individually tracked I can imagine it caps to avoid exploitation of cycling one person w/o renown clearning the chest for others.

Wait, what? I'm not sure I understand your exploit.

It's individual. We went into a lost sector last night - 2 people had 5 Renown, one had 3. The two that had 5 got 10 tokens, the 3 got 6. How do you exploit that?

If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

Ah, I see now. (I can be a little naive sometimes when thinking about ways to break the game. :) )

Easy solution: difficulty is set for ALL characters based on the HIGHEST Renown in the group. Incentivizes standardizing. :)

I don’t really see it as a problem. As it is now, you can run with 2 others who have no renown who can just wreck the lost sector. But they don’t get bonus tokens.

The problem is the player with 5 renown gets bonus tokens but didn't actually do anything, so it completely removes the gameplay modification renown is making. As far as I can tell, the Renown 5 player doesn't even have to shoot anything. (Although maybe they do? I did not test this precise scenario, I was just looking to see if having a low renown player in the instance tearing things up disqualified the chest from dropping the extra tokens for the high-renown player or not... and it doesn't.)

You don't have to shoot anything to get tokens (at whatever level renown you're at). I was running some Lost Sectors with Korny last night, and mostly we were together the whole time, but at the end, he went to kill something on the way back to the sector; I didn't stop, because I was already at level 5. By the time he got down into the Lost Sector, I'd killed the boss. I just waited down there for him, to keep things from despawning, and when he came in, he just looted it - no shooting required. (We didn't do it to 'cheat' - it's just how it worked out, that one run.)

It's definitely more work for the person in the Lost Sector, though - not sure I understand what the advantage really is. (If you've got the extra time to be killing multiple things and benefitting from all of them, you don't really need the boost in the first place.)

That is: the people who will end up 'exploiting' this loophole are going to be people who would have reached Level 50 anyway.

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the people who will end up 'exploiting' this loophole are going to be people who would have reached Level 50 anyway.

This is definitely it. I hit 50 yesterday and if I had anyone online I probably would have been dumping renown to help people who were behind. I mean, I was dumping renown anyway just trying to grind out Heroic Public Event clears because I did my first 30 Ranks on my Titan without a full Anti-Extinction set.

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If you had no renown you could clear a lost sector for someone who had 5 without them having to take their time through the Lost Sector. Don't know how many people would be willing to do that for someone else for basically nothing, but it could be considered a way to cheat the system. And the higher the cap was the worse this workaround would get.

This works, did it the other day. Go into a LS with a mixed Renown group. The player with zero renown goes in and tears up the entire sector as usual; the renown 5 player goes in at the end and loots the chest.

Then you swap.

I have to admit, though, I only even thought of doing this because renown was completely wrecking me the first day I played with it on-- because I had a leftover quest to get Valkyrie kills on Mars and I was attempting to do it during EP and public events with renown stacking, and I was getting killed before I could get a single kill. It was annoying.

I was on a character that hadn't pledged-- but pledges are now account wide. I know why and I even agree with it, but this really meant I should have put that quest off until the Rally was over, and I had not thought that through, so it made playing very annoying until that was over.

Once off Mars, though... I started to enjoy doing a slow creep through Sectors. I don't like speedrunning, generally, so renown encourages a play style I already like. And unlike the chaotic public space on Mars with EP going on, enemies in sectors are basically territorial and defensive, so you can always retreat to safety before proceeding-- how aggressive you play is entirely up to you.

All the public spaces are more ordered than Mars because of EP, so they are far more manageable-- but it also does mean that you have to think about routes you take through the space, and whether you want to take on or avoid that yellow bar VIP enemy that's standing between you and the Sector you want to loot at renown 5.

So finally yes, Renown in lost sectors is easy to exploit but the exploit is probably not really worth it, as it means spending 2x the time for two players getting the same reward. If there's a player who really wants the reward but is struggling with finishing a sector solo, you can always do this.

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Yeah totally, exploiting it now is not a big deal at all. We were more talking about they'd have to make some changes if they were going to expand the renown system to go to higher caps with even higher rewards.

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Yeah totally, exploiting it now is not a big deal at all. We were more talking about they'd have to make some changes if they were going to expand the renown system to go to higher caps with even higher rewards.

I'd say make renown fireteam wide. No cap.

As renown goes up, rewards grow exponentially.
As renown goes up, your power goes down exponentially.

Whenever someone in your fireteam dies, you lose renown.

How much you lose scales exponentially with how much you have. So maybe 0-4 a death loses 1, 5-9 loses 2, 10-14 loses 4, 15-19 loses 8, 20-24 loses 16, and 25+ you lose it all.

Now things are interesting. You can add people to your fireteam which will make lost sectors easier, but you run the risk of losing your own renown if you teammate dies. Likewise you can build up as much as you want, but run the risk of getting greedy and wiping it if someone dies. You'd then have to determine the right level of risk, since because of exponential reward growth it's always better in theory to get as much as possible, but in practice you'd have to contend with the danger.

As it is now, you just get 5 without really thinking and run a lost sector. This way there could be some decision making.

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The system would need a good overhaul to go beyond 5. If they just continue as it is, it would get boring quick, with taking massive damage and dealing none. A lost sector would take thirty minutes or more, taking potshots at enemies. That’s where the decision on how much Renown to gather comes into play, I guess, but it push towards a too careful play style that isn’t all that appealing to me very quickly. Maybe cap the damage modifiers around where they are now and then start playing with Heroic modifiers beyond that? And would that even be possible to apply to individual fire teams in a public space?

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And would that even be possible to apply to individual fire teams in a public space?

Probably depends on the modifier. They're using the attrition modifier right now, so apparently that works. And although renown seems to modify damage dealt/taken, it's at a (presumably) constant setting per renown stack. My guess is that things which modify damage conditionally (like grounded, or an elemental singe) are harder to do. Just a hunch.

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I have to admit, though, I only even thought of doing this because renown was completely wrecking me the first day I played with it on-- because I had a leftover quest to get Valkyrie kills on Mars and I was attempting to do it during EP and public events with renown stacking, and I was getting killed before I could get a single kill. It was annoying.

Oh, yeah. Public events with renown active are gnarly. In my groups, we learned to avoid them once we'd built up a couple of stacks.

If you're primarily focused on the quest and not actually trying to gain renown, you could lose it between events. Get killed on purpose (bonus: this is easier to do with renown!) or just fast travel and lose it all at once.

So finally yes, Renown in lost sectors is easy to exploit but the exploit is probably not really worth it, as it means spending 2x the time for two players getting the same reward. If there's a player who really wants the reward but is struggling with finishing a sector solo, you can always do this.

That's exactly why I never viewed this as a "real" exploit. Even in the scenario of helping a struggling player get through the lost sector, it's only putting them on level footing (at best) with other players.

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If you can infinitely atack it then you have folks with like 20 stacks hiding in a corner and one with no/few stacks steamroll the Lost Sector. So I figured to avoid that inclination they would cap at 5.

Maybe for Cody’s context disregard scaling reward past 5 but let the debuffs stack further.

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If you can infinitely atack it then you have folks with like 20 stacks hiding in a corner and one with no/few stacks steamroll the Lost Sector. So I figured to avoid that inclination they would cap at 5.

Maybe for Cody’s context disregard scaling reward past 5 but let the debuffs stack further.

You guys are definitely better than I am at seeing how to game the system. :)

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Maybe for Cody’s context disregard scaling reward past 5 but let the debuffs stack further.

In which case dying wouldn't reduce rewards until your debuff stack returned to 5.

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This isn't really related to 'renown', per se - but I'm putting it here because your comments nicely encapsulate some of my feelings over the past few days. (I'm enjoying the Renown system, too! I'd love to have it integrated like the Nightfall Challenge card, to be used or not used as players saw fit.)

What this made me think of was the last piece of the Nascent Dawn quest, which I finished yesterday. You get a catalyst for the Polaris Lance, and part of the activation of it requires 50 "Perfect Fifth" kills.

This is described in other threads here, but for folks who haven't seen this yet, the Exotic perk of the Polaris Lance is a delayed explosive round that shows up after 4 precision shots. (Four quick precision shots, I should say; there's a definite time limit between shots, and if you exceed it, the count starts over.) The Catalyst requirement is 50 kills with that fifth shot... but only the BURN of that shot, that continues over time. If you kill your enemy with the shot itself (or the explosion from the shot), it doesn't count. So you have to pick enemies with enough health to survive the explosion... but not enough to survive the DOT from the burn.

Luckily, someone on Reddit determined that a Cabal Legionary with full health has the exact amount of health needed, so the suggestion is to go into the Castellum, in the Leviathan, and farm Cabal Legionaries (which will spawn infinitely there). (Side warning: it was also discovered that if you happen to be wearing Raid pants, the damage buff from them will screw up the equation; you'll kill the Legionary with the explosion. So wear regular pants.)

Okay: so with Catalysts, you can either ignore them, and let them trigger organically... or you can do what most of us do, and focus on completing them once we get them. :) So I decided to try farming for these kills, because getting them anywhere else sounded exhausting.

First thing I realized was... it's not anywhere near as easy as people made it sound. ;) There are a LOT of Cabal, and they're ALL shooting at you, and throwing grenades at you, and if you're not a crack shot who can simply swing your gun around and hit your target under pressure every time, you're going to have to be pretty dang careful or you're going to die a LOT. :)

This is where I discovered the time limit for the explosive round; I started by being careful, and lining up my precision shots (because I thought, wrongly, that they had to be four CONSECUTIVE precision shots - they don't, they just have to be close enough together that they trigger the perfect fifth). And then, once I realized you could be sloppier, I started to have trouble because I'd get the four precision shots... but then I wouldn't be able to find an unharmed Legionary in time, because I'd been shooting pretty indiscriminately. (Another suggestion had been to use a pair of Phalanxes for your precision shots; you can take 2 shots at the open shield that count, do that twice (different phalanxes; if you wait for him to stand up straight again, you lose the streak), and THEN shoot a Legionary... but I found that when I was in there alone, there were ONLY two Phalanxes, and they weren't always available for shots. Often they were behind other Cabal, or facing the wrong way to hit the center, or a host of other issues. So I'd shoot ANYTHING for the precisions... but then when I was lookign for a fifth target, I'd be faced with 20 injured Cabal. Oops!)

Long story already long - it took me a while to work out a pattern that actually provided the environment I needed to complete the challenge. (I ended up using the Cabal that spawn above and behind you when you are at the top of the stairs for the final shot, and the multitude in the pit for the first 4. Lots of dodging!)

This is NOT the way I normally play Destiny. It was much faster, and I needed to be much more careful about where I was hitting my enemies. It was super-slow at the start, and didn't get better until I found a pattern that worked for me. (The Reddit thread is full of people thanking the guy who suggested the Castellum, saying "I finished the challenge in 20 minutes", or "It only took me half an hour!" I laugh at all those people. ;) )

HOWEVER (and this, finally, is the point of this post):

When I was finished, I did a strike, and I used the Lance. And holy crap, that Perfect Fifth was proc'ing all the friggin' time!

I GOT BETTER BY TRYING SOMETHING I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ON MY OWN, BUT THAT BUNGIE MADE ME DO IN SEARCH OF SOMETHING I WANTED, AND IT MADE THE GAME MORE FUN.

I mean... yeah, I know that's the argument... but rarely has it hit home as strongly as it did last night. :)

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This is described in other threads here, but for folks who haven't seen this yet, the Exotic perk of the Polaris Lance is a delayed explosive round that shows up after 4 precision shots. (Four quick precision shots, I should say; there's a definite time limit between shots, and if you exceed it, the count starts over.)

I've been testing this A LOT over the last week or so and there actually isn't a time limit between shots. Basically, between shots 1-4 you can take as long as you want (and even miss precision shots like crazy) and you won't lose your count, BUT as soon as you make that 4th shot you have about 5 seconds to use your explosive shot or it's gone. In addition, if you reload (even with a Hunter's dodge reload) it will reset your shots back to 0.

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This is described in other threads here, but for folks who haven't seen this yet, the Exotic perk of the Polaris Lance is a delayed explosive round that shows up after 4 precision shots. (Four quick precision shots, I should say; there's a definite time limit between shots, and if you exceed it, the count starts over.)

I've been testing this A LOT over the last week or so and there actually isn't a time limit between shots. Basically, between shots 1-4 you can take as long as you want (and even miss precision shots like crazy) and you won't lose your count, BUT as soon as you make that 4th shot you have about 5 seconds to use your explosive shot or it's gone. In addition, if you reload (even with a Hunter's dodge reload) it will reset your shots back to 0.

I'm glad to hear that it's only the last gap that matters! (That's the one I'd screw up the most, because I was looking for an unhurt Legionary. I guess I just assumed it was between all of them.)

Also, when things are as crazy as the Castellum solo can get, sometimes you hit a precision shot and don't see the yellow markers; I blew a LOT of the perfect fifths on guys that were nearly dead because I thought the count was 3, instead of 4. (It wasn't until the end of the strike that I even noticed the reticle changes for the fifth shot. :) )

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This is described in other threads here, but for folks who haven't seen this yet, the Exotic perk of the Polaris Lance is a delayed explosive round that shows up after 4 precision shots. (Four quick precision shots, I should say; there's a definite time limit between shots, and if you exceed it, the count starts over.)

I've been testing this A LOT over the last week or so and there actually isn't a time limit between shots. Basically, between shots 1-4 you can take as long as you want (and even miss precision shots like crazy) and you won't lose your count, BUT as soon as you make that 4th shot you have about 5 seconds to use your explosive shot or it's gone. In addition, if you reload (even with a Hunter's dodge reload) it will reset your shots back to 0.

I haven't tried it, but I've heard you can even switch to your kinetic or power weapon and your precision shots will still be lit up in your scope when you switch back to the Polaris Lance.

-Disciple

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I haven't tried it, but I've heard you can even switch to your kinetic or power weapon and your precision shots will still be lit up in your scope when you switch back to the Polaris Lance.

Yup, totally works. And you can even reload those weapons without losing your Polaris Lance streak. Super handy sometimes.

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I have heard people talk about using the Castellum to finish catalysts. I wrote that suggestion off immediately, as it seemed too much like doing a chore. You’ve made it sound engaging.

I wrote previously about Skolas and encounters encouraging movement. Your post feels like an extension of that, in that I think Destiny is at its best when it encourages (if not forces) players out of their comfort zone. There’s a lot to be said for hitting a mob of low level dregs with your favorite weapon that you’ve used for dozens of hours, but I love the moments when I discover something “new” in my play style.

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Agreed!

Was playing a lost sector on Mercury the other night with a 5x Renown and it was great! Forgetting that my health doesn't regen like usual, and I wasn't as strong as usual, I ended up high tailing it out like a scalded ape as I had just a sliver of health left and shots were whizzing past me. It was really fun.

I think I like it better as a limited time event though. Once it becomes something that is always there, or an optional addition, it becomes standard and not as special.

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Make it part of the weekly Flashpoint, incorporate destination specific reward pool?

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Make it part of the weekly Flashpoint, incorporate destination specific reward pool?

Making it a part of flashpoint is a great idea.

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Make it part of the weekly Flashpoint, incorporate destination specific reward pool?

Making it a part of flashpoint is a great idea.

It's the best idea.

Consider this issue addressed and properly resolved. I forwarded this thread to Mr. Bungie himself.

(sits back with arms behind head and lets out an exaggerated self satisfying sniff)

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I am not liking it at all. I only have one choice on the system, if it even works. Not opting into Faction Rallies (I suppose the Faction vendors would stay highlighted all week). Sometimes I like the Faction gear, so sometimes I want to play it. Now it's a pain, unlike before.

The open world was just getting enjoyable again (barely) and now it's a completely different beast power-wise. I don't like it. Next week it will play completely differently.

I know I can just quit this game, like so many of my friends but it's a gorgeous game with excellent gun play and effects.

Maybe when Bungie re-invents this game yet again this Fall, it'll be golden for me.

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I am not liking it at all. I only have one choice on the system, if it even works. Not opting into Faction Rallies (I suppose the Faction vendors would stay highlighted all week). Sometimes I like the Faction gear, so sometimes I want to play it. Now it's a pain, unlike before.

The open world was just getting enjoyable again (barely) and now it's a completely different beast power-wise. I don't like it. Next week it will play completely differently.

I know I can just quit this game, like so many of my friends but it's a gorgeous game with excellent gun play and effects.

Maybe when Bungie re-invents this game yet again this Fall, it'll be golden for me.

If you play a Lost Sector when you first arrive on a planet, or right after you clear Renown, it plays exactly how it did last week, regardless of the armor you're wearing.

If you don't want even 1 stack, but you love wearing the armor, just kill yourself after you earn some. (Twice if you're wearing a full armor set.) I agree, that's definitely more work than you had to do last week (or next week), but it shouldn't take very long. ;)

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Honestly, I think eliminating fast travel is the key point here. The number of people I saw saying: "Hey, this open world is actually really neat! I just always fast traveled everywhere before so I never noticed!" was shockingly high.

I think renown and its debuff is interesting for a bit, but it also become troublesome and in some lost sectors it started getting close to D1 Nightfall levels of me having to hide around a corner and hope I didn't get hit one too many times while poking my head out.

I would much rather the game be made interesting by including more interesting challenges or enemies or whatever. Not by just making me super underleveled.

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To be completely fair/accurate here, you're not *just* under-leveled. There's also the health regen mechanic with the restorative light pools.

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Okay, so only being able to pledge to a single faction sucks, and on paper, having to hit rank 50 to get the weapon catalyst (they made sure not to tell us that before the rally began, didn't they?) is even worse...

But the renown system is pretty fantastic, and I even take back my criticism of the continued focus on Lost Sectors.

I ran it with Cody last night, and was pretty astounded at all of the good that comes with the Renown system.

-Enemies are scary for the first time.
Death has a price now. It may be small, but when the difference is a fair amount of tokens, you really want to survive (Exploder shanks are serious business!). Dying makes you stronger, yes, but your rewards diminish. Still, because you are stronger, you are more helpful to your teammates, so it's a tradeoff that saves some frustration.

-More loadout variety is encouraged.
Last night, I equipped the cobweb-filled Flash and Thunder grenade launcher. I never looked twice at it before, but now that enemies can drop you quickly, being able to stun groups is invaluable (especially on the capture zones). It proved to be an excellent tool that kept us alive. With our diminished health regen, I was also strongly considering the Alpha Lupi chestpiece, given that the Titan wall was already proving to be a lifesaver, and having a team health regen would keep us on the offensive. I was actually considering ways to change my playstyle in order to be better, which the game generally never requires of you.

-You're encouraged to interact with the randoms in the world.
When I see Blueberries helping capture zones out in the wild, I feel a huge sense of relief. We're weaker, but as a group, things aren't so bad, and it was getting pretty hectic (especially during Public Events while you already have a stack or two). And not only were Cody and I communicating enemy positions and movement, but I was sure to keep an eye on what the randoms were doing, and helping them when it looked like they wouldn't be able to hold back the rush. It felt like an actual battle.

-You can't just rush to the end.
I was having a lot of fun, because the same tired old Lost Sectors were now interesting battlefields where I was carefully planning my every move up, because a single enemy (or in Cody's case, a single jump) could prove fatal.

-The rewards are worth it!
We didn't run it for long, but I was impressed with how continuously satisfying it was to open a Lost Sector cache again, and seeing that solid number of Faction tokens drop. Hitting rank 50 in a single week is totally doable! Also, when I inspected my gear, hoping that I had at least 50 tokens, it turned out that I had 85, so that was a good feeling.

I don't even know how I would improve the system other than letting us throw in personal modifiers for reward multipliers. Would also help specialize each player in a Fireteam based on weaknesses...

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I don't even know how I would improve the system other than letting us throw in personal modifiers for reward multipliers. Would also help specialize each player in a Fireteam based on weaknesses...

I want to see Destiny move in that direction so much. I want the classes to be very distinct with strengths and weaknesses, rather than slightly different flavors of the same thing.

Before launch they talked about locked load outs, and I thought that might fill you that role, with folks bringing different weapons to cover different situations, but that didn’t pan out.

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Okay, so only being able to pledge to a single faction sucks, and on paper, having to hit rank 50 to get the weapon catalyst (they made sure not to tell us that before the rally began, didn't they?) is even worse...

But the renown system is pretty fantastic, and I even take back my criticism of the continued focus on Lost Sectors.

I ran it with Cody last night, and was pretty astounded at all of the good that comes with the Renown system.

-Enemies are scary for the first time.
Death has a price now. It may be small, but when the difference is a fair amount of tokens, you really want to survive (Exploder shanks are serious business!). Dying makes you stronger, yes, but your rewards diminish. Still, because you are stronger, you are more helpful to your teammates, so it's a tradeoff that saves some frustration.

-More loadout variety is encouraged.
Last night, I equipped the cobweb-filled Flash and Thunder grenade launcher. I never looked twice at it before, but now that enemies can drop you quickly, being able to stun groups is invaluable (especially on the capture zones). It proved to be an excellent tool that kept us alive. With our diminished health regen, I was also strongly considering the Alpha Lupi chestpiece, given that the Titan wall was already proving to be a lifesaver, and having a team health regen would keep us on the offensive. I was actually considering ways to change my playstyle in order to be better, which the game generally never requires of you.

-You're encouraged to interact with the randoms in the world.
When I see Blueberries helping capture zones out in the wild, I feel a huge sense of relief. We're weaker, but as a group, things aren't so bad, and it was getting pretty hectic (especially during Public Events while you already have a stack or two). And not only were Cody and I communicating enemy positions and movement, but I was sure to keep an eye on what the randoms were doing, and helping them when it looked like they wouldn't be able to hold back the rush. It felt like an actual battle.

-You can't just rush to the end.
I was having a lot of fun, because the same tired old Lost Sectors were now interesting battlefields where I was carefully planning my every move up, because a single enemy (or in Cody's case, a single jump) could prove fatal.

-The rewards are worth it!
We didn't run it for long, but I was impressed with how continuously satisfying it was to open a Lost Sector cache again, and seeing that solid number of Faction tokens drop. Hitting rank 50 in a single week is totally doable! Also, when I inspected my gear, hoping that I had at least 50 tokens, it turned out that I had 85, so that was a good feeling.

I don't even know how I would improve the system other than letting us throw in personal modifiers for reward multipliers. Would also help specialize each player in a Fireteam based on weaknesses...

I have some issues with the dependence on lethality (light level) as an element of the challenge, but it is definitely a step in the right direction and I strongly agree with each of your points. A lot of it reminds me of how much I enjoy the challenge card update for Nightfall.

Frankly I really appreciate that overall design direction and if they add more card manipulation to the various activities, I'm all for it.

Good stuff.

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Okay, so only being able to pledge to a single faction sucks, and on paper, having to hit rank 50 to get the weapon catalyst (they made sure not to tell us that before the rally began, didn't they?) is even worse...

Yep. This falls in the "how much free time does Bungie think people have?" category. I am a single person with a not-insane work schedule most of the time, and even I am not completely certain this is going to happen. Luckily I don't have a lot of commitments this weekend (although there's still a lot I need to get done) so I can devote a couple of long stretches to it. But I don't know how someone with kids or a demanding job/school is supposed to have that kind of time.

-You can't just rush to the end.
I was having a lot of fun, because the same tired old Lost Sectors were now interesting battlefields where I was carefully planning my every move up, because a single enemy (or in Cody's case, a single jump) could prove fatal.

Or a single traitorous mancannon in my case. Seriously, though, this pace feels a lot more interesting. It actually feels reasonable to want a 3-player team for a lost sector now.

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I do know that there were folks out there discussing prior to it going live that the Ornament and Catalyst were at Rank 50. I don't recall where that was sourced from, but it was all over YT and various other places.

And I will say that with 3 days of medium play I was past Rank 30, and I wasn't using any of the crazy farming guides. If you play every day just enough to do the daily challenges on three characters you'll still net 18 packages. And for the most part you get those done while collecting other tokens. So I think 50 is probably going to be manageable for most schedules.

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Okay, this is a theoretical argument, since we're already halfway through the week, but here's the math:

You need 50 levels, right? You have 7 days. That's an average of just over 7 per day.

There are several optimized tactics for maximizing your token earning, but a couple of them are obvious enough that many people stumbled on them before reading farming guides - which means we can probably say that anyone who really wanted to hit level 50 (whether or not they were short on time) could probably use one. Those methods earn coins at rates of about 100-120/hour (or 5-6 levels/hour).

If you spread your earnings out over the full week, you can take full advantage of the Faction Rally milestone every day - which gives you an extra 15 tokens/character (or more than 2 levels for folks with 3 characters), easily accomplishable during your normal token farming. (I mean, you get them anyway, if you're trying to maximize earning rates.)

What that means is, if you thought about the issue before Tuesday morning, you could devote about an hour a day this week to token farming, and end up at level 50 by Monday.

There are a whole bunch of people who hit level 50 before Wednesday's reset - they needed to play at least 10 hours on Tuesday to do that.

Those are the outside limits for hitting 50. (Least vs most work.)

If you've got a couple of long stretches on the weekend, you can easily finish.

I'm going to attempt to hit it on both Xbox and PS4 - made harder by the fact that I only have a single character on PS4. I have a life, so I might not get there - but I'm gonna try. :)

(If you consider 'farming' beneath you, or you hate doing something many times in a row (even when it's a multi-step process that actually varies quite a bit between cycles)... well, this isn't for you. But for the rest of us... it's doable.

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(If you consider 'farming' beneath you, or you hate doing something many times in a row (even when it's a multi-step process that actually varies quite a bit between cycles)... well, this isn't for you. But for the rest of us... it's doable.

Even Cody “Feed me from a silver platter” Miller has hit rank 50, and I never heard him complain about it once in the entire time that we’ve farmed together. And we haven’t done anything remotely “optimized” (if anything we’ve avoided hitting the same Lost sector more than once an hour or so).
Otter hit 50 on the third day, so yeh, it’s perfectly doable if you commit to it for at least an hour or two a day.

Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

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Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

Message me if you want a solution to this problem.

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Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

Message me if you want a solution to this problem.

I'm also willing to help in that regard. I'm hoping to finish by tomorrow night. I was going to work on my Xbox Hunter on Sunday and Monday, but she's only at rank 5, so hitting 50 isn't going to happen anyway.

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(If you consider 'farming' beneath you, or you hate doing something many times in a row (even when it's a multi-step process that actually varies quite a bit between cycles)... well, this isn't for you. But for the rest of us... it's doable.

Even Cody “Feed me from a silver platter” Miller has hit rank 50, and I never heard him complain about it once in the entire time that we’ve farmed together. And we haven’t done anything remotely “optimized” (if anything we’ve avoided hitting the same Lost sector more than once an hour or so).

And that’s why I haven’t complained. We did a variety of lost sectors, many of which I never discovered.

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We did a variety of lost sectors, many of which I never discovered.

This is one of the reasons I'm loving this. I haven't found any new ones this week, but I've played with a bunch of people who have. And that's awesome.

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Unfortunately I think I’ll only be able to run it for one more day before I go out of state for a week, so I likely won’t hit 50 myself, which means that I’ll have to commit to Dead Orbit again next Faction Rally just for a handful of packages. :(

I'm in the same boat. The figuring on the amount of time each day assumes you can play each day. That's not the case for me in the summer. I wouldn't have any problem with this, but since they only are having 3 rallies, they're setting everyone who travels in the summer up to fail in getting all the catalysts.

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The figuring on the amount of time each day assumes you can play each day.

Yup. Thank you for saying that. I wasn't planning on having to defend my assessment of how much time I have available (and I'm far from the busiest person I know, so if it's a chore for me, it's a chore for at least SOME others). Each day you can't play stacks that time on to some other day. Skip 2 or 3, and pretty soon you could be trying to stack a 3-4 hour session into one day.

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The figuring on the amount of time each day assumes you can play each day.

Yup. Thank you for saying that. I wasn't planning on having to defend my assessment of how much time I have available (and I'm far from the busiest person I know, so if it's a chore for me, it's a chore for at least SOME others). Each day you can't play stacks that time on to some other day. Skip 2 or 3, and pretty soon you could be trying to stack a 3-4 hour session into one day.

Apologies; I didn't realize I was wording it in a way that made people feel like they had to justify their busy lives. You don't; 50 levels *is* a lot, and requires a significant amount of play in order to reach. And being absent for some of those 7 days definitely builds strain on the other ones. (My post also implies that even someone with an hour a day to play Destiny would be OKAY with doing nothing but farming tokens all week. That's also incorrect; that gets seriously boring, and it's not why most of us play in the first place.)

I guess the point of my post was that although it seems like a ridiculously high point you need to reach, if you break it down it's not quite as bad as it first seems. (I had tried to estimate the math before the week started; I wasn't sure if we were going to need 20 tokens per level, or 30 as some vendors require. I went with a worst-case scenario, and then calculated my climb rate in the last Iron Banner (which was recent enough that I could actually remember the numbers needed), and decided it wasn't going to be doable. (I reached the 35-level requirement for the ship in IB only by spending several hundred tokens above what I earned that week, tokens saved up from earlier IBs. Adding in those tokens, and then ANOTHER 15 levels, made me pretty sure earning the catalyst wasn't going to happen. When it turned out that the earn rate on faction tokens was much, much higher than the earn rate on IB tokens, I was relieved... but that made me lose sight of the fact that it's STILL a lot of hours. Sorry.)

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I really like the system, but it got waaayyyy less sweaty when I remembered Red Death's little cousin. If you want a challenge, play the correct way. If you're solo and just need to earn some tokens, use this build:

Warlock:
-Healing Rift
-Karstein Armlets
-Crimson

Every encounter is entirely survivable.

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I really like the system, but it got waaayyyy less sweaty when I remembered Red Death's little cousin. If you want a challenge, play the correct way. If you're solo and just need to earn some tokens, use this build:

Warlock:
-Healing Rift
-Karstein Armlets
-Crimson

Every encounter is entirely survivable.

I still make mistakes occasionally. Like, I kill all the little stuff, then get a little too greedy working on the boss... and don't have an easy way to regen health. (Okay, doesn't often happen on a Warlock, but this time around, armor ornaments are per-class, so you can't just play on one and unlock them for everyone.)

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I really like the system, but it got waaayyyy less sweaty when I remembered Red Death's little cousin. If you want a challenge, play the correct way. If you're solo and just need to earn some tokens, use this build:

Warlock:
-Healing Rift
-Karstein Armlets
-Crimson

Every encounter is entirely survivable.

Don’t forget to be a Void Warlock with Devour.

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I really like the system, but it got waaayyyy less sweaty when I remembered Red Death's little cousin. If you want a challenge, play the correct way. If you're solo and just need to earn some tokens, use this build:

Warlock:
-Healing Rift
-Karstein Armlets
-Crimson

Every encounter is entirely survivable.

Don’t forget to be a Void Warlock with Devour.

Is there a different way to be a Warlock?

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Yeah. You don’t rely on eating explosives.

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Yeah. You don’t rely on eating explosives.

Holy cow. I literally forgot you could do that, and I main a Warlock. Whoops.

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So... the thing about that is, if you keep the devour buff going with more kills (as in, doing it correctly) you can get MORE grenades than you would have otherwise, due to the grenade recharge boost from each kill. Spend money to make money!

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Same thing with a hunter and wormhusk crown. Titans can use Alpha Lupi.

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Renown should be a permanent addition. (Destiny)