My crappy prediction

Mara Sov comes back. How? Her consciousness is put in an Exo body. The body? Cayde.

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Mara Sov comes back. How? Her consciousness is put in an Exo body. The body? Cayde.

Mara Sov is The Stranger.

(I will continue to predict [INSERT CHARACTER] is The Stranger until I'm right.)

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Mara Sov comes back. How? Her consciousness is put in an Exo body. The body? Cayde.

Mara Sov is The Stranger.

(I will continue to predict [INSERT CHARACTER] is The Stranger until I'm right.)

Dude, not sure if you've been keeping up with the news, but thanks to Warmind lore bits, it's like 99.99% certain that the Exo Stranger is Elsie Bray, Ana Bray's sister in Exo form.

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Mara Sov comes back. How? Her consciousness is put in an Exo body. The body? Cayde.

Mara Sov is The Stranger.

(I will continue to predict [INSERT CHARACTER] is The Stranger until I'm right.)

Dude, not sure if you've been keeping up with the news, but thanks to Warmind lore bits, it's like 99.99% certain that the Exo Stranger is Elsie Bray, Ana Bray's sister in Exo form.

Which results in an overwhelming "uh, WHO?" from 99% of Destiny players.

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Which results in an overwhelming "uh, WHO?" from 99% of Destiny players.

I mean, we know who Ana is...

Also, wouldn't that be true for the Exo Stranger's character herself, though?

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Mara Sov comes back. How? Her consciousness is put in an Exo body. The body? Cayde.

Mara Sov is The Stranger.

(I will continue to predict [INSERT CHARACTER] is The Stranger until I'm right.)

Dude, not sure if you've been keeping up with the news, but thanks to Warmind lore bits, it's like 99.99% certain that the Exo Stranger is Elsie Bray, Ana Bray's sister in Exo form.

I don't do things like "keep up with" or "pay attention to details" or "read"

I have no idea what is going on in the Destiny Universe. If it's not in a cut scene that I can watch numerous times, then it doesn't absorb. And recently, Destiny cut scenes are more confusing than anything. So yeah, I will reiterate, I don't call myself The Village Idiot to be cute, I legit have no idea what is going on around here. :P

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Nah. My prediction is that the marketing is bullshit. Cayde will “die” but we’ll somehow get him back as Cayde-7 or something like that. Not buying their hype or that they’d blow a reveal that supposedly has real consequences in marketing. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

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Nah. My prediction is that the marketing is bullshit. Cayde will “die” but we’ll somehow get him back as Cayde-7 or something like that. Not buying their hype or that they’d blow a reveal that supposedly has real consequences in marketing. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

Initially, I would have agreed with you.

I think they're in a position where blowing that reveal is the best thing they can do to get people to sit up and actually pay attention. They need something to get people to even care at at this point. I certainly hope they don't bring him back as Cayde-7 or otherwise have him revived. They're out there hammering "dead is dead," and if they walk that back I'll be extremely disappointed.

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Nah. My prediction is that the marketing is bullshit. Cayde will “die” but we’ll somehow get him back as Cayde-7 or something like that. Not buying their hype or that they’d blow a reveal that supposedly has real consequences in marketing. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

Initially, I would have agreed with you.

I think they're in a position where blowing that reveal is the best thing they can do to get people to sit up and actually pay attention. They need something to get people to even care at at this point. I certainly hope they don't bring him back as Cayde-7 or otherwise have him revived. They're out there hammering "dead is dead," and if they walk that back I'll be extremely disappointed.

They couldn't even kill Ikora, even when the story they set up was practically begging for it.

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Nah. My prediction is that the marketing is bullshit. Cayde will “die” but we’ll somehow get him back as Cayde-7 or something like that. Not buying their hype or that they’d blow a reveal that supposedly has real consequences in marketing. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

Initially, I would have agreed with you.

I think they're in a position where blowing that reveal is the best thing they can do to get people to sit up and actually pay attention. They need something to get people to even care at at this point. I certainly hope they don't bring him back as Cayde-7 or otherwise have him revived. They're out there hammering "dead is dead," and if they walk that back I'll be extremely disappointed.

They couldn't even kill Ikora, even when the story they set up was practically begging for it.

Yeah, "Dead is Dead". Because they're not specifying Cayde-6>

I'll put money on Cayde-7, otherwise we're getting a new character to be the comic relief, which I think would be a bad move. And Cayde-7 losing some of his personality and memories in the process of becoming will be the real tragedy, given what we know of his origins. It's a bid for gravitas, and it may just work. The character we know, in any case, will cease to be.

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Nah. My prediction is that the marketing is bullshit. Cayde will “die” but we’ll somehow get him back as Cayde-7 or something like that. Not buying their hype or that they’d blow a reveal that supposedly has real consequences in marketing. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

Initially, I would have agreed with you.

I think they're in a position where blowing that reveal is the best thing they can do to get people to sit up and actually pay attention. They need something to get people to even care at at this point. I certainly hope they don't bring him back as Cayde-7 or otherwise have him revived. They're out there hammering "dead is dead," and if they walk that back I'll be extremely disappointed.

They couldn't even kill Ikora, even when the story they set up was practically begging for it.

Yeah, "Dead is Dead". Because they're not specifying Cayde-6>

I'll put money on Cayde-7, otherwise we're getting a new character to be the comic relief, which I think would be a bad move. And Cayde-7 losing some of his personality and memories in the process of becoming will be the real tragedy, given what we know of his origins. It's a bid for gravitas, and it may just work. The character we know, in any case, will cease to be.

If they do that it won’t work. It will just be a cheap trick. Death has to mean something to be effective. You don’t use gimmicks to suddenly make your story better. You actually have to write something meaningful and compelling.

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Nah. My prediction is that the marketing is bullshit. Cayde will “die” but we’ll somehow get him back as Cayde-7 or something like that. Not buying their hype or that they’d blow a reveal that supposedly has real consequences in marketing. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

Initially, I would have agreed with you.

I think they're in a position where blowing that reveal is the best thing they can do to get people to sit up and actually pay attention. They need something to get people to even care at at this point. I certainly hope they don't bring him back as Cayde-7 or otherwise have him revived. They're out there hammering "dead is dead," and if they walk that back I'll be extremely disappointed.

They couldn't even kill Ikora, even when the story they set up was practically begging for it.

Yeah, "Dead is Dead". Because they're not specifying Cayde-6>

I'll put money on Cayde-7, otherwise we're getting a new character to be the comic relief, which I think would be a bad move. And Cayde-7 losing some of his personality and memories in the process of becoming will be the real tragedy, given what we know of his origins. It's a bid for gravitas, and it may just work. The character we know, in any case, will cease to be.

If they do that it won’t work. It will just be a cheap trick. Death has to mean something to be effective. You don’t use gimmicks to suddenly make your story better. You actually have to write something meaningful and compelling.

Well, bringing him back as Cayde-7 as a completely different personality and all that would be worse than him being dead. Then we see him but he isn't at all the Cayde we know and love. It's like a constant reminder of what we lost.

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Nah. My prediction is that the marketing is bullshit. Cayde will “die” but we’ll somehow get him back as Cayde-7 or something like that. Not buying their hype or that they’d blow a reveal that supposedly has real consequences in marketing. Could be wrong, but we’ll see.

Initially, I would have agreed with you.

I think they're in a position where blowing that reveal is the best thing they can do to get people to sit up and actually pay attention. They need something to get people to even care at at this point. I certainly hope they don't bring him back as Cayde-7 or otherwise have him revived. They're out there hammering "dead is dead," and if they walk that back I'll be extremely disappointed.

They couldn't even kill Ikora, even when the story they set up was practically begging for it.

Yeah, "Dead is Dead". Because they're not specifying Cayde-6>

I'll put money on Cayde-7, otherwise we're getting a new character to be the comic relief, which I think would be a bad move. And Cayde-7 losing some of his personality and memories in the process of becoming will be the real tragedy, given what we know of his origins. It's a bid for gravitas, and it may just work. The character we know, in any case, will cease to be.

If they do that it won’t work. It will just be a cheap trick. Death has to mean something to be effective. You don’t use gimmicks to suddenly make your story better. You actually have to write something meaningful and compelling.

100% agree here, but I don't see that happening. I'd be happy to be wrong, but what with how hard they dialed up the Cayde marketing through pre-launch, he's been even more central to the tone for D2, not less. And sure, maybe it was done in order to build him up just to they could let us down with his death and actually feel something. To which I'd say nice try, but no cigar.

So say it really does go that way. What's done from that point to maintain the brand identity and tone? And who steps up as Hunter Vanguard? Hawthorne?

Not gonna lie, I'd welcome it. But I don't have confidence they'll make that choice.

Well, bringing him back as Cayde-7 as a completely different personality and all that would be worse than him being dead. Then we see him but he isn't at all the Cayde we know and love. It's like a constant reminder of what we lost.

Bingo. We'd have more details on his past than he would. He wouldn't remember the things we remember, he might not even believe people when they told him. There's a compelling play of identity there. Just imagine the interactions with Failsafe from that point.

Bungie keeps the manufactured gravitas, he does technically die according to whatever they decide the canon is, and they don't have to deal with the fallout of taking real risks with a real narrative. And the expansion is more or less neatly bookended, like the others, aside from a new shader (and maybe a new location) for the Hunter Vanguard.

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If they bring him back as Cayde-7, he's still not a Guardian any more, or at least not a light-wielding one. If they trailer is real and not trickery, his Ghost is dead. Cayde won't have the light.

Bringing him back in any way while still staying true to the narrative and the consequences of dying in the first place seems way more complicated than just having him actually be dead. And any sort of bringing him back and just maintaining the status quo will make me officially not give a shit about anything that happens in Destiny's story.

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If they bring him back as Cayde-7, he's still not a Guardian any more, or at least not a light-wielding one. If they trailer is real and not trickery, his Ghost is dead. Cayde won't have the light.

Bringing him back in any way while still staying true to the narrative and the consequences of dying in the first place seems way more complicated than just having him actually be dead. And any sort of bringing him back and just maintaining the status quo will make me officially not give a shit about anything that happens in Destiny's story.

I could actually see this happen in some form. They bring back his body to just recount what happened to him but he is literally just an Exo with no soul.

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And any sort of bringing him back and just maintaining the status quo will make me officially not give a shit about anything that happens in Destiny's story.

This has always been my struggle with the Destiny Universe. There is no evidence of evolution or consequence as you explore. We killed Crota. I guess his blades stopped showing up on earth, but we're still fighting Hive everywhere like we always have. We killed Skolas, but the Fallen are in the exact places, wearing the exact same clothes they've always worn. The taken still fight us after having Oryx destroyed. We ruined the Cabal's attack on earth. Whenever I visit the European Dead zone I'm not convinced we made any kind of dent in their numbers or offensive capabilities.

The shared world shooter has very little space to evolve. You can do it in between games, or you can do the SIVA-earth thing which is probably not very easily done. It's really hard for a game designed like Destiny to have a narrative that shows the weight of your actions in any real way. This is part of why I think Destiny does lore so well and does regular narrative without much gravitas. I may be in the minority, but I really liked Destiny 2's campaign story. Sure it had it's flaws, but it was fun and it set up the game spaces so they make sense. Anything after that doesn't really have the room to shape those spaces. Sure, I can have a lot of fun in those spaces (public events, lost sectors, Court of Oryx/Escalation protocol stuff), but they'll never have any impact on the narrative. That feels weird.

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You never quit, do you? Took out Gaul, woke up the Traveler...

Wait, never mind.

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You never quit, do you? Took out Gaul, woke up the Traveler...

Wait, never mind.

That's as far as I get before I can grab my engram and get her out of my face. It's the one reward I dread picking up every week.

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You never quit, do you? Took out Gaul, woke up the Traveler...

Wait, never mind.

That's as far as I get before I can grab my engram and get her out of my face. It's the one reward I dread picking up every week.

That's better than hearing Tess yell about Fenchurch constantly as soon as you spawn into the Tower.

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"WHY DON'T YOU SHUT UP!"
My kids in the other room get real quiet.
"NOT YOU. I'M YELLING AT TESS!"

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This has always been my struggle with the Destiny Universe. There is no evidence of evolution or consequence as you explore. We killed Crota. I guess his blades stopped showing up on earth, but we're still fighting Hive everywhere like we always have. We killed Skolas, but the Fallen are in the exact places, wearing the exact same clothes they've always worn. The taken still fight us after having Oryx destroyed. We ruined the Cabal's attack on earth. Whenever I visit the European Dead zone I'm not convinced we made any kind of dent in their numbers or offensive capabilities.

The shared world shooter has very little space to evolve. You can do it in between games, or you can do the SIVA-earth thing which is probably not very easily done. It's really hard for a game designed like Destiny to have a narrative that shows the weight of your actions in any real way. This is part of why I think Destiny does lore so well and does regular narrative without much gravitas. I may be in the minority, but I really liked Destiny 2's campaign story. Sure it had it's flaws, but it was fun and it set up the game spaces so they make sense. Anything after that doesn't really have the room to shape those spaces. Sure, I can have a lot of fun in those spaces (public events, lost sectors, Court of Oryx/Escalation protocol stuff), but they'll never have any impact on the narrative. That feels weird.

I agree. It would be nice to have the limited-time events in some kind of rotation again. Crota's blades appearing, or the Taken Blight/Boss fight stuff that went on in D1.

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I agree. It would be nice to have the limited-time events in some kind of rotation again. Crota's blades appearing, or the Taken Blight/Boss fight stuff that went on in D1.

That would be nice to have again, but I'm a bit more cynical of the underlying structure. I'm not sure it's possible to have a compelling narrative in a shared-world-shooter. The need to constantly have enemies populating your world means there is never a cost because the game needs to stay the same. There is never a reward for the same reason. There is no rhythm of fighting and then breathing and enjoying the results. You can get this in the campaign, but they made it impossible to replay the campaign as a linear narrative.

This sounds like I'm down on Destiny, but I think it's just that I've come to terms with its narrative limitations. I still get a ton of fun playing around in the spaces. Also, I'm really looking forward to the next big expansion. Hopefully that will change up the world a bit.

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I think there is an interesting contrast in Fortnite: Battle Royale here. Fornite has a lore-only "story", but it actually impacts the game-world everyone plays in. Season 3 teased a meteor coming by it appearing in the sky, then having small meteors fall from the sky during games more often as the season progressed, then having all the tvs have an emergency on them warning of the imminent meteor impact. Then Season 4 started and part of the map is now a huge crater. Each week they seem to adjust the map slightly to progress the story for Season 4 along as well. I sort of wish that Bungie would just go all-in and do something similar where if you aren't playing the game during a certain period of time you just don't get to see certain content. That goes a long way to making a world feel more alive. I don't know how that could work with having a "campaign" though, but I think if Bungie wants to keep using a shared world, they should make that world change in a shared way that makes it feel like things are really changing.

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I think there is an interesting contrast in Fortnite: Battle Royale here. Fornite has a lore-only "story", but it actually impacts the game-world everyone plays in. Season 3 teased a meteor coming by it appearing in the sky, then having small meteors fall from the sky during games more often as the season progressed, then having all the tvs have an emergency on them warning of the imminent meteor impact. Then Season 4 started and part of the map is now a huge crater. Each week they seem to adjust the map slightly to progress the story for Season 4 along as well. I sort of wish that Bungie would just go all-in and do something similar where if you aren't playing the game during a certain period of time you just don't get to see certain content. That goes a long way to making a world feel more alive. I don't know how that could work with having a "campaign" though, but I think if Bungie wants to keep using a shared world, they should make that world change in a shared way that makes it feel like things are really changing.

First I want to say I 100% with Chickens' post. There are limitations to the shared world format, and I think we're experiencing them pretty loudly. I will say that the Dreaming City seems like it might be an attempt to mitigate some of those things.

Secondly, I don't disagree with you here, either. It would be a compelling change to the formula, but consider all the effort put into the geometry to make such a thing happen.

I believe we've talked about this online ourselves, but I've had similar conversations with a lot of the folks I play with: Bungie puts a lot of effort into creating incredible settings for us to run around in, but a lot of the most captivating locations see very little use after the initial experience. I've heard lots of people clamoring for a new experience within the Titan Arcology, for example. To be realistic, though, such a change would need to be in the pipe for D3, given where we are in the D2 lifecycle, and if I'm understanding the kind of dynamic experience you're talking about, it would mean tweaks on every world, in time with whatever events Bungie plans for the continuity. It's a really compelling thought.

I certainly don't have an issue with the notion that players that check out for a season or two are simply going to miss some content. I think that's definitely part of the history of a game, and if I check out for six months, I should absolutely spend the rest of my time with the game knowing that there are some bits of gear, or shaders, or other content I just don't get; aside from missing out on the views. As it stands, I kind of feel like this logic should be applied to ornaments already.

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I want the game world to change because of me. Not despite me.

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I want the game world to change because of me. Not despite me.

To be clear, I'd prefer Bungie not have gone the live game route and instead continued to focus on their more offline-style games like Halo. But if they want to have a live game I think they need to just make a live game, not continue making a hybrid game.

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The game isn't Halo 2, so it's bad.

We just, like Chickens, need to accept the game for what it is and enjoy what it does well.

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The game isn't Halo 2, so it's bad.

We just, like Chickens, need to accept the game for what it is and enjoy what it does well.

We are doing that. We’re all here, we’re all playing Destiny 2. You can enjoy the game for what it is, even love it for what it is, and still wish it was better in other regards. Criticism and discussion is how we get things to change.

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The game isn't Halo 2, so it's bad.

We just, like Chickens, need to accept the game for what it is and enjoy what it does well.

We are doing that. We’re all here, we’re all playing Destiny 2. You can enjoy the game for what it is, even love it for what it is, and still wish it was better in other regards. Criticism and discussion is how we get things to change.

Maybe if you have a YouTube channel…

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I want the game world to change because of me. Not despite me.

It rubs me the wrong way that I feel like NOTHING happens without my involvement. For a world to feel truly lived in, then I can't possibly be the center of it.

I'd like to have an effect on the world.

I want to see that the world continues existing when I leave it.

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I want the game world to change because of me. Not despite me.

It rubs me the wrong way that I feel like NOTHING happens without my involvement. For a world to feel truly lived in, then I can't possibly be the center of it.

I'd like to have an effect on the world.

I want to see that the world continues existing when I leave it.

That's called real life. There's a reason why video games are different.

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I want the game world to change because of me. Not despite me.

It rubs me the wrong way that I feel like NOTHING happens without my involvement. For a world to feel truly lived in, then I can't possibly be the center of it.

I'd like to have an effect on the world.

I want to see that the world continues existing when I leave it.

That's called real life. There's a reason why video games are different.

Despite being a tabletop game rather than a video game, the mark of a compelling narrative in D&D is having the world move on with and without your characters. What you choose to engage in, you impact; what you don't choose to engage in will continue without you.

What you impact should be an opportunity cost.

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Despite being a tabletop game rather than a video game, the mark of a compelling narrative in D&D is having the world move on with and without your characters. What you choose to engage in, you impact; what you don't choose to engage in will continue without you.

That's not what I'm talking about. If you all take a vacation and resume your campaign two months later, it can be exactly where you left off. Of course you will not see or talk to everyone when you play. But you don't have to miss out on stuff between sessions because nothing happens when you aren't playing. You can pick up exactly where you left off.

I've long advocated for tons of content that you don't see in video games too. The only difference is that you never miss your opportunity to. Go back and play it again, and you will find something new. Don't play Forsaken week 1? Gone forever, sorry.

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Having players out for a few sessions is perfectly normal for many DnD campaigns. Not all players are gonna stop playing because That Guy™️ Wants to take a two month vacation.

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Then you must really hate Halo. Like Robot Chickens said, it seems more like nothing happens regardless of what we do as opposed to things happening because of us in Destiny.

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Most of Halo is reacting to circumstances outside of player control though.

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I want to see that the world continues existing when I leave it.

If the game does a good enough job at world creations, it FEELS lived in and it FEELS like it could exist when you aren't playing it. But the parts you play are specifically there to be experienced by you. For those to be lost because you were busy that day… not cool

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100% agree here, but I don't see that happening. I'd be happy to be wrong, but what with how hard they dialed up the Cayde marketing through pre-launch, he's been even more central to the tone for D2, not less.

[image]

And what an improvement that's been. :-/

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[image]

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As long as the exo is as hot as original Queen, I’m ok with it.

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We are over due for a "Hunt for the queen" PVE event, not that Bungie does those after Queens Wrath for some reason.

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