Community puzzle? (Destiny)

by Oholiab, Saturday, January 18, 2020, 09:37 (284 days ago)

I keep seeing references to a community puzzle that people are working to solve. Anyone know what that’s about? Haven’t gotten on Xbox in a week, so I’m pretty out of touch.

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Corridors of Time Quest

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Saturday, January 18, 2020, 11:19 (284 days ago) @ Oholiab

If you talk to Osiris, he's got a new quest this week to go back and further explore the Corridors of Time. When you start running through, however, you'll notice that all of the doors in each room are now open and if you run through the doors at random, it seems to go on forever.

At each of the obelisks throughout the system, sequences of symbols matching the ones in front of the doors in the CoT. If you run through the doors in these sequences, you'll find yourself at a lost treasure room (or something like that) that will award you with a bit of lore and what looks like a piece of a map of the Corridors below the glass floor in the room.

There are 19 sequences that award lore and one more that awards an emblem. However, even after collecting all of the lore and the emblem, the quest telling you to continue exploring the Corridors remains unchanged.

People have begun piecing together the maps they see beneath the treasure rooms (Time Lost Vaults, maybe?) into a larger "meta map" that seems to show paths connecting the vaults (each of which has one of the five symbols assigned to it) together.

I assume people are trying to run sequences of vault rooms now, but that's as far as I've followed it so far.

Here's the reddit thread if you're interested.

-Disciple

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Corridors of Time Quest

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, January 18, 2020, 16:43 (284 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

I just looked into this today. It looks really neat. I’m glad they did something interesting this season. I saw some data-mines stuff that I won’t mention here, but it sounds interesting.

Corridors of Time Quest

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, January 19, 2020, 02:35 (283 days ago) @ DiscipleN2k

I believe the 19 floor tiles revealed from the Obelisk codes were pieced together to make the Emblem code.

The Emblem code in turn shows every player a new floor tile per character, that rotates hourly through four (five?) tiles. The poil appears to change daily (or on some other fixed reset) as the first day there were only ~50 unique tiles and now there are well over 80.

The current goal (as o lat night UK time, it may have changed since) is crowdsourcing as many of these as possible under the assumption that they'll reveal a new path to something else.

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Corridors of Time Quest has been solved!

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, January 20, 2020, 01:36 (282 days ago) @ someotherguy
edited by Korny, Monday, January 20, 2020, 01:59

I believe the 19 floor tiles revealed from the Obelisk codes were pieced together to make the Emblem code.

The Emblem code in turn shows every player a new floor tile per character, that rotates hourly through four (five?) tiles. The poil appears to change daily (or on some other fixed reset) as the first day there were only ~50 unique tiles and now there are well over 80.

The current goal (as o lat night UK time, it may have changed since) is crowdsourcing as many of these as possible under the assumption that they'll reveal a new path to something else.

The reward was...

*drumroll*

Some lore, and a bit of dialogue that was leaked a while back!

Players can also grab a weapon core that they’ll need to start the grinding quest for Bastion, the timegated (meta humor, eh Bungie?) kinetic Fusion Rifle that was shown off with the season pass, scheduled for the end of this month. Bungie was telling players that it was a marathon, not a sprint, but they still completed it over a week early.

Also, the quest seems to be wonky. You have to have completed all of Saint-14’s “Impossible Task” quests to accept the grind quest, and it may or may not be locked to the first character you completed them on.

Corridors of Time Quest has been solved!

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, January 20, 2020, 06:22 (282 days ago) @ Korny

People seem real mad about this, but I enjoyed the entire process and have no issues with the reward. Not sure what the hubbub is all about tbh, and I'm hardly one of Bungie's staunchest defenders.

Cool puzzle Bongle, I enjoyed it at least.

Corridors of Time Quest has been solved!

by FyreWulff, Monday, January 20, 2020, 09:12 (282 days ago) @ someotherguy

People seem real mad about this, but I enjoyed the entire process and have no issues with the reward. Not sure what the hubbub is all about tbh, and I'm hardly one of Bungie's staunchest defenders.

Cool puzzle Bongle, I enjoyed it at least.

Yeah. I'm not getting the ire from the subreddit on this one. It was a cool puzzle and Bungie obviously tried to manage expectations and set up a fail-safe two week time limit if people couldn't figure out the puzzle. It's near impossible to calibrate how fast or slow a community will solve a puzzle in a game where people can solo a raid and other people can't even finish a public event with a full fireteam. They even outright said that it wasn't a sprint, and that there would be no world first attached to it; they tried to get people to pace themselves.

If they had not announced Bastion beforehand, but then announced after the puzzle solve that it was going to be available on Saint after a reset, then people would have complained they were giving the weapon away for 'free' without having to do the puzzle.

If they had let the solve happen but we had to wait until the 28th for the quest to actually start, then they would have been criticized for timegating (heh) the weapon.

I'm not really sure what they're supposed to do here. I missed when the overall Bungie community that had fun with stuff like I Love Bees and later ARGs even with their imperfections, now it's all a cynicism contest and a race to datamine spoilers :(

+1000

by Claude Errera @, Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:31 (282 days ago) @ FyreWulff

I didn't participate, I just watched... but it gave me warm fuzzies to see people coming together to make cool tools to solve this puzzle.

The reward is almost irrelevant; it was the journey that was so amazing.

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+1000

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:44 (282 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I didn't participate, I just watched... but it gave me warm fuzzies to see people coming together to make cool tools to solve this puzzle.

The reward is almost irrelevant; it was the journey that was so amazing.

I felt the journey was wholly uninteresting. Spreadsheets, waiting for players to submit random combinations, and walking into rooms over and over and over and over? I clocked out of even caring about the possible reward almost immediately. I’m kind of glad the reward was as weak as it is, as well. Validated me not even getting invested in the “event”.

Even some major streamers who do care about this (Gothalion), haven’t taken too well to how niche the event was, as it seems to have specifically been made to drag for streamer culture’s sake.

I feel for Bungie, who was desperately trying to temper expectations and slow enthusiastic players down the whole time, buuuuuut they kind of did this to themselves yet again.

Anyway, the solution is up for anyone who wants to start churning the steps for Bastion.

They had me at "spreadsheets" <3

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Monday, January 20, 2020, 11:26 (282 days ago) @ Korny

- No text -

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+1

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 05:13 (281 days ago) @ someotherguy

The code to stitch the map together must've been a hoot to work on too

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+1000

by bluerunner @, Music City, Monday, January 20, 2020, 11:39 (282 days ago) @ Korny


Anyway, the solution is up for anyone who wants to start churning the steps for Bastion.

Or just wait until tomorrow's reset.

+1000

by Claude Errera @, Monday, January 20, 2020, 14:10 (282 days ago) @ Korny

I didn't participate, I just watched... but it gave me warm fuzzies to see people coming together to make cool tools to solve this puzzle.

The reward is almost irrelevant; it was the journey that was so amazing.


I felt the journey was wholly uninteresting. Spreadsheets, waiting for players to submit random combinations, and walking into rooms over and over and over and over? I clocked out of even caring about the possible reward almost immediately.

Okay.

I didn't.

I didn't see it as "waiting for players to submit random combinations", I saw it as "smart people figured out what was going to be needed to solve this puzzle, and created a slew of tools to make that happen." It was really cool to watch. I'm sorry you were bored, and I'm sorry you couldn't look past the minute-by-minute task list to see how a community came together to solve something that at first looked insurmountable.

::shrug::

Different strokes.

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+1000

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Monday, January 20, 2020, 14:30 (282 days ago) @ Claude Errera
edited by Korny, Monday, January 20, 2020, 14:35

I didn't participate, I just watched... but it gave me warm fuzzies to see people coming together to make cool tools to solve this puzzle.

The reward is almost irrelevant; it was the journey that was so amazing.


I felt the journey was wholly uninteresting. Spreadsheets, waiting for players to submit random combinations, and walking into rooms over and over and over and over? I clocked out of even caring about the possible reward almost immediately.


Okay.

I didn't.

I didn't see it as "waiting for players to submit random combinations", I saw it as "smart people figured out what was going to be needed to solve this puzzle, and created a slew of tools to make that happen." It was really cool to watch. I'm sorry you were bored, and I'm sorry you couldn't look past the minute-by-minute task list to see how a community came together to solve something that at first looked insurmountable.

::shrug::

Different strokes.

I think that’s the issue for me, though. It wasn’t insurmountable, and it didn’t take cleverness in problem solving, specific knowledge (like Binary for OP), skill, in-game coordination or teamwork, or anything that previous game events asked of players. It was more ARG and less surprise dungeon.

But at least ARGs have stages. This was one long sequence that needed to be brute-forced, and the only challenge was the number of combinations, patience, and an excel sheet to keep track of “codes” punched in, with a bonus challenge of not knowing just how long the sequence was supposed to be. It was busywork through and through. Real riveting and engaging stuff.

If you have fun watching loud people punching in formulas to figure out how long it’ll take paint to dry, then yeah, I’m glad they made an event for that subset of the fandom. But nothing was gained for the thousands of man-hours that went into solving this besides a slightly-bumped-up release for a gimmicky paid exotic that people will use for a week, then dump in the vault because their Erentils are more reliable.

I feel like I’m coming off as more annoyed than I am (I had zero expectations, and subsequently very little investment in this whole fiasco). If you had fun, that’s great, you’re not necessarily wrong or dumb for doing so. But realistically speaking, the work/reward ratio that was asked of the community was pretty ridiculous, Because Niobe Labs should have been a teaching experience for Bungie, and yet now they have another event that leaves players with an even worse taste in their mouths.

I think it’s whatevs either way. I don’t even like ARGs, and I don’t use Fusion Rifles, so this event wasn’t for me in any capacity. Hooray for the community!

+1000

by EffortlessFury @, Monday, January 20, 2020, 16:43 (282 days ago) @ Korny

But at least ARGs have stages. This was one long sequence that needed to be brute-forced, and the only challenge was the number of combinations, patience, and an excel sheet to keep track of “codes” punched in, with a bonus challenge of not knowing just how long the sequence was supposed to be. It was busywork through and through. Real riveting and engaging stuff.

If you think this is true, you don't have a solid understanding of how the puzzle works and how it is solved.

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+1001

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| \[T]/, Monday, January 20, 2020, 13:17 (282 days ago) @ Claude Errera
edited by INSANEdrive, Monday, January 20, 2020, 13:29

I didn't participate, I just watched... but it gave me warm fuzzies to see people coming together to make cool tools to solve this puzzle.

The reward is almost irrelevant; it was the journey that was so amazing.

Agreed. BEHOLD!

[image]

Gotta say, quite an achievement. I wonder how long this took to make?

Edit: Also... want to add this tweet thread. It is a reply to one individual who felt the end result was not good enough - Quote:




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+1001

by cheapLEY @, Monday, January 20, 2020, 16:18 (282 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

So, here's my consideration, as someone who only saw one reddit thread about it, thought "that looks neat," then promptly forgot about.

What's the overall value of something like this? How much was the dev cost for this, versus something like a strike or a crucible map? It seems really silly to me to spend what seems like a good chunk of time and resources making something like this, only for that to basically disappear from the game in a few weeks (and, even if it didn't, to never be experienced again in any case), when even a single Crucible map would have been more worthwhile in terms of value to the game going forward.

I know that's not exactly a straight-forward equation, as limited time events that ostensibly bring the community together definitely have a value. I just can't really get behind something like this or Niobe Labs over something like Whisper and Zero Hour, which are cool puzzles that also end up as really cool and fun repeatable missions going forward.

I have no dog in this race, but it's really difficult for me to not be cynical about this sort of stuff. I don't want to disparage the individual developers that designed and made this thing, as I'm sure they're very proud of it and were excited to make it and though it was cool and all that, but stuff like this ends up really feeling like filler content to round out a $10 season rather than a substantial piece of content in a great game. And that's where the seasonal model is really starting to break down for me--increasingly the stuff going into the game feels like it's answering "How can we fill out a season that will go away in a few months?" instead of "what really cool thing can we put into the game?" It just sort of feels like they're going about thinks a bit backwards to me. Maybe that's what it takes to make Destiny sustainable, and that's fine, bur the seasonal activities feel completely disposable because they are by their very nature. Instead of making extremely cool things, it feels like they're throwing shit at the wall because they now it won't matter in three months when they just move on to the next half-baked thing.

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Solid points

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| \[T]/, Monday, January 20, 2020, 22:02 (281 days ago) @ cheapLEY

So, here's my consideration, as someone who only saw one reddit thread about it, thought "that looks neat," then promptly forgot about.

What's the overall value of something like this? How much was the dev cost for this, versus something like a strike or a crucible map? It seems really silly to me to spend what seems like a good chunk of time and resources making something like this, only for that to basically disappear from the game in a few weeks (and, even if it didn't, to never be experienced again in any case), when even a single Crucible map would have been more worthwhile in terms of value to the game going forward.

I know that's not exactly a straight-forward equation, as limited time events that ostensibly bring the community together definitely have a value. I just can't really get behind something like this or Niobe Labs over something like Whisper and Zero Hour, which are cool puzzles that also end up as really cool and fun repeatable missions going forward.

I have no dog in this race, but it's really difficult for me to not be cynical about this sort of stuff. I don't want to disparage the individual developers that designed and made this thing, as I'm sure they're very proud of it and were excited to make it and though it was cool and all that, but stuff like this ends up really feeling like filler content to round out a $10 season rather than a substantial piece of content in a great game. And that's where the seasonal model is really starting to break down for me--increasingly the stuff going into the game feels like it's answering "How can we fill out a season that will go away in a few months?" instead of "what really cool thing can we put into the game?" It just sort of feels like they're going about thinks a bit backwards to me. Maybe that's what it takes to make Destiny sustainable, and that's fine, bur the seasonal activities feel completely disposable because they are by their very nature. Instead of making extremely cool things, it feels like they're throwing shit at the wall because they now it won't matter in three months when they just move on to the next half-baked thing.


I too would much prefer the sort of content brought about from Whisper of the Worm & Outbreak Prime, but those custom spaces take time. I enjoy exploring the question "What is behind that door"? Shoot, I enjoyed the Heavy Bow Quest because we got to see a little more character built into the tower. That's fun. Also... Arcstrider, but I digress.

At this point, the Dev quote bouncing around in my head is;

This isn't just about removing stuff from Destiny 2 -- but the game cannot grow infinitely forever...

Granted, this quotes context is for Gambit, but I'm starting to think this idea has gown since then. We are in the final(?) year of Destiny 2, based on what occurred with Destiny 1. Stuff is being made right now that we'll see next year(?). Bungie has more freedom, but less resources then they did. I think what was done here was an excellent attempt at finding a middle ground. Not there yet - still have to do something about us building up things into things they are not, as I heard a lot of rumblings of a secret Exotic Sword (Then how is it secret?) and what not.

Anything else.... hmm, Oh! I know. I love bees. What value does this information have? Why am I taking about it?

+1001

by EffortlessFury @, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 05:22 (281 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I'll say this; a puzzle like this probably required a lot of mathematical planning and design...but I doubt that implementation of this was overly complicated. Much of this puzzle could've been procedural generated (though the final result "baked" statically). There a limited variety of rooms that appear in the maze. It's actually a very clever use of limited resources to create a community bonding event. The experience alone is worth participation.

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+1001

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 12:04 (281 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

And to jump off from increased value with clever use if resources in the context of producing a Strike or Crucible map: Testing. The only things you need to test for are catastrophic failures and function, really, no? None of the rooms require puzzles or combat. The rooms themselves would already be used in the story missions so unless you want complaints about more Infinite Forest most everything here was previously taken care of. I’d imagine the puzzle planning was the most time intensive part, and that is far different than making a Crucible map. (Though give me a teleport-complex as a Crucible map for shiggles and I’d probably play it.)

::shivers at thoughts of Chiron-TL34::

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 12:18 (281 days ago) @ Harmanimus

- No text -

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::shivers at thoughts of Chiron-TL34::

by CyberKN ⌂ @, Still has a line in the sand, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 18:24 (281 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I consider memorizing that layout without ever reading or drawing a map as one of my greatest accomplishments in video games.

+1001

by EffortlessFury @, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 12:41 (281 days ago) @ Harmanimus

And to jump off from increased value with clever use if resources in the context of producing a Strike or Crucible map: Testing. The only things you need to test for are catastrophic failures and function, really, no? None of the rooms require puzzles or combat. The rooms themselves would already be used in the story missions so unless you want complaints about more Infinite Forest most everything here was previously taken care of. I’d imagine the puzzle planning was the most time intensive part, and that is far different than making a Crucible map. (Though give me a teleport-complex as a Crucible map for shiggles and I’d probably play it.)

Exactly. There's both functional testing and user experience testing for new activities.

Though while the Corridors of Time does have combat, it is isolated to each node. So yes, the implementation likely took a fraction of the time it takes to create "legit" content.

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+1001

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 11:13 (280 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

Yeah, obviously there is combat in it. But I meant more the Crucible/Boss angle with my comment, for clarity. Boss mechanics and players have to be tested markedly more than general combatant encounters.

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+1000

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 07:46 (281 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I didn't participate, I just watched... but it gave me warm fuzzies to see people coming together to make cool tools to solve this puzzle.

The reward is almost irrelevant; it was the journey that was so amazing.

So why are people complaining about the reward then? Could it have to do with the fact the game itself is so heavily focused on ‘rewards’ and not experiences? The problem laid bare.

+1000

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 11:03 (281 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I didn't participate, I just watched... but it gave me warm fuzzies to see people coming together to make cool tools to solve this puzzle.

The reward is almost irrelevant; it was the journey that was so amazing.


So why are people complaining about the reward then? Could it have to do with the fact the game itself is so heavily focused on ‘rewards’ and not experiences? The problem laid bare.

Or maybe it's just that not everyone shares my views on what's important and what's not? I dunno.

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Corridors of Time Quest has been solved!

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, January 20, 2020, 11:08 (282 days ago) @ FyreWulff

People seem real mad about this, but I enjoyed the entire process and have no issues with the reward. Not sure what the hubbub is all about tbh, and I'm hardly one of Bungie's staunchest defenders.

Cool puzzle Bongle, I enjoyed it at least.


Yeah. I'm not getting the ire from the subreddit on this one. It was a cool puzzle and Bungie obviously tried to manage expectations and set up a fail-safe two week time limit if people couldn't figure out the puzzle. It's near impossible to calibrate how fast or slow a community will solve a puzzle in a game where people can solo a raid and other people can't even finish a public event with a full fireteam. They even outright said that it wasn't a sprint, and that there would be no world first attached to it; they tried to get people to pace themselves.


If they had not announced Bastion beforehand, but then announced after the puzzle solve that it was going to be available on Saint after a reset, then people would have complained they were giving the weapon away for 'free' without having to do the puzzle.

If they had let the solve happen but we had to wait until the 28th for the quest to actually start, then they would have been criticized for timegating (heh) the weapon.

I'm not really sure what they're supposed to do here. I missed when the overall Bungie community that had fun with stuff like I Love Bees and later ARGs even with their imperfections, now it's all a cynicism contest and a race to datamine spoilers :(

Some people dig popping other people's balloons. I went into it not knowing anything about it, and wasted some time before I realized this was truly an infinite forest. Not as cool as the Siva Engine puzzle, but cool nonetheless.

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Corridors of Time Quest ENDS in 1 week?

by Pyromancy @, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 13:27 (281 days ago) @ Kermit
edited by Pyromancy, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 13:39

I went into it not knowing anything about it, and wasted some time before I realized this was truly an infinite forest. Not as cool as the Siva Engine puzzle, but cool nonetheless.

Apparently 'The Corridors of Time' are not completely Infinite
I guess the entire puzzle/activity is going away "FOREVER!!1!" in 7 days?


There is an in-game Emblem, 19 Lore pages (+ Triumph points), and an amazing/haunting audio cutscene at the end of the journey.

Of course they had to go and Bungie(TM) it

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Tuesday, January 21, 2020, 16:36 (281 days ago) @ Pyromancy

- No text -

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Corridors of Time Quest ENDS in 1 week?

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 01:32 (280 days ago) @ Pyromancy

I went into it not knowing anything about it, and wasted some time before I realized this was truly an infinite forest. Not as cool as the Siva Engine puzzle, but cool nonetheless.

Apparently 'The Corridors of Time' are not completely Infinite
I guess the entire puzzle/activity is going away "FOREVER!!1!" in 7 days?


There is an in-game Emblem, 19 Lore pages (+ Triumph points), and an amazing/haunting audio cutscene at the end of the journey.

Is it reasonable to experience this in a single 2 hour session? I've been away since uhhh mid-december and wouldn't mind checking this out before it goes poof.

In light of their move to more ephemeral content, I can say that so far, having largely missed out on this season, that, I'm not all that fussed. It further discourages the obsessive collector in me and I'm just looking forward to what events I DO get to check out.

Thought lets be honest, lets add SRL permanently to D2...

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Yes

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 06:07 (280 days ago) @ kidtsunami

You'll need the solutions beforehand, though, since 2 hours only get you two lore codes from the obelisks.

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Yes

by Harmanimus @, Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 11:17 (280 days ago) @ ZackDark

I think I ran the first 15 and the (brute forced) emblem code in 2 hours while clearing every room of combatants for bounties. I did the remaining 4 for lore in about 10-15 minutes just running them straight the following day. If you are looking for the lore/emblem you can probably complete it in under an hour.

Yes

by CougRon, Auburn, WA, USA, Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 12:09 (280 days ago) @ Harmanimus

I am a slow poke. I was on for 2+ hours last night and I only got half way through the lore codes and I had the solutions (only messed up twice). I didn’t even glance at the emblem code, solution or quest and after the first code or two I was Trying hard to confront as few enemies as I could get away with, they were taking me too long.

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It's really not an ARG

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Wednesday, January 22, 2020, 14:38 (280 days ago) @ FyreWulff

I was disappointed in it, though not because I expect a secret unannounced reward, but because the puzzle was designed to require such a massive scale of data correlation that you could never feel like you were making much of an impact. (I'm a fan all they way up to the emblem). People are mentioning ILB and this isn't different just because of the attitude of the players* but because of the size of the player base. There were about 30? of us at Unfiction that I really remember being there consistently playing the ARG, and there were hundreds more that would pop in and out as stores would run about it and an untold number who would just listen to the audio. But, for destiny to put in a distributed puzzle that can scale up enough to need a meaningful percentage of the D2 players means that it needs to be an enormous puzzle, and with something of that scale of players it is VERY hard not to just see it devolve into brute force solves or the slightly better darwinistic solves. There's just so many people. I don't blame Bungie for that, or even the players. Scale dilutes most everything.

There is one way that this is like an ARG, in that if you missed out on the window of time when it was happening all you can do is read recaps of the solve, and that's not nearly as fun as following along live or participating. I struggle with the idea of a great game that has no ability to be shared with others but it can create some great bonds through a shared and unique experience. I have been to weddings of people I met through ILB, and I know people from across the country (and parts of Europe) that I feel as drawn to visit with when travel brings us near as family. I hope that others are finding that despite the massive scale of these Destiny Puzzles.

As for non-players being disappointed with the reward, well, that's the other way this is like an ARG. Toward the end there are always people who take the solution handed to them and then feel like they wasted their time. I remember going to get the DVD reward from ILB and not a single person I talked to in the line had any idea why they were there, really. They read on a gaming news website that if they showed up at some place at some time and said some phrase they would get some thing related to Halo 2. Most thought it was a copy of the beta. (Actually every week I would meet some guy who thought he was going to get an early beta) For me it cuts the other way. I'm annoyed when I think about all the DVDs that got thrown away by people who had no context for what they were given and all the players who lived too far away to get a copy for themselves it's sad. Be careful critiquing the food at a party you crashed, is my point.

People who didn't play should have no expectation of feeling fulfilled by something like this and the work that went into is seems non-fungible to the work of making a multiplayer map. And even if it were, not everything needs to be for everyone. I'd love to know how the people playing felt about it. I do worry that it was so big nobody felt like they were really getting their hands around it.

* for one thing, ILB was trying to be an ARG and this is just trying to be a puzzle. There was no alternate reality the players were existing in. Nothing wrong with that, but it will make any comparison fail.

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