Did you hate the “gameplay” in Last of Us? (Gaming)
by Cody Miller 
, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, March 05, 2020, 12:01 (1513 days ago)
edited by Cody Miller, Thursday, March 05, 2020, 12:21
Now you can just watch it.
Did you hate the “gameplay” in Last of Us?
by cheapLEY , Thursday, March 05, 2020, 19:54 (1513 days ago) @ Cody Miller
First, the gameplay of The Last of Us is great.
Second, a mini-series seems like a better direction to go than a film.
I'm excited about this.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, March 09, 2020, 12:08 (1509 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by Kermit, Monday, March 09, 2020, 12:36
I hope it follows the narrative very closely (including saving events in the DLC until later). This does seem like the optimal outcome for an adaptation--or at least the most likely alignment of talent and backing such that it's not ruined. Looking forward to my non-gamer friends experiencing this (I've tried to convert a few into gamers so that they could, and they usually floundered a few hours in).
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, March 09, 2020, 13:54 (1509 days ago) @ Kermit
I hope it follows the narrative very closely (including saving events in the DLC until later). This does seem like the optimal outcome for an adaptation--or at least the most likely alignment of talent and backing such that it's not ruined. Looking forward to my non-gamer friends experiencing this (I've tried to convert a few into gamers so that they could, and they usually floundered a few hours in).
Following the narrative closely I feel would be an adaptational mistake. To succeed in my opinion, it has to tell a different story, or be a prequel or a sequel.
The game is already using film language plus so much more to tell its story, and is very effective at doing so. To just adapt that is dangerous given you would lose a lot simply by switching media.
Remember what Tim Rogers said:
I’ve written before that part of what I like about videogame design as a dramatic instrument is their ability to put us a hundred percent into the moments editors would leave out of a film.
And film editors would cut a lot out of Last of Us.
I don't think it's any coincidence that the best video game movies are the ones that don't just try to retell the game's story.
I'm excited about this.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Monday, March 09, 2020, 15:20 (1509 days ago) @ Cody Miller
I hope it follows the narrative very closely (including saving events in the DLC until later). This does seem like the optimal outcome for an adaptation--or at least the most likely alignment of talent and backing such that it's not ruined. Looking forward to my non-gamer friends experiencing this (I've tried to convert a few into gamers so that they could, and they usually floundered a few hours in).
Following the narrative closely I feel would be an adaptational mistake. To succeed in my opinion, it has to tell a different story, or be a prequel or a sequel.The game is already using film language plus so much more to tell its story, and is very effective at doing so. To just adapt that is dangerous given you would lose a lot simply by switching media.
Remember what Tim Rogers said:
I’ve written before that part of what I like about videogame design as a dramatic instrument is their ability to put us a hundred percent into the moments editors would leave out of a film.
And film editors would cut a lot out of Last of Us.I don't think it's any coincidence that the best video game movies are the ones that don't just try to retell the game's story.
But when has there been a good video game movie? They generally suck because the stories in themselves are usually B quality at best. Their existence in a game matters and is usually what makes it work. In this case, the script itself is nearly perfect in my view and could have been made into a drama as easily as a game. It's episodic, it has the beats and the dramatic arc good drama should have, and what's added by the game play--embodying in some sense the struggle to survive--can at least be approximated given the tools we have in film. I'm not expecting nor do I want an exact copy, but the great thing about it being a series is that they'll have room for many small moments that represent big things like those in the game. Frankly, I think your insistence that it HAS to tell a different story is bananas.
Completely agree.
The beats of The Last of Us are to numerous to make a good movie, if you tried to include them. They have to cut so much to hit even a 2.5 hour run time.
A prestige series is the perfect way to translate it.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, March 09, 2020, 16:25 (1509 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Completely agree.
The beats of The Last of Us are to numerous to make a good movie, if you tried to include them. They have to cut so much to hit even a 2.5 hour run time.
A prestige series is the perfect way to translate it.
But you gain nothing in the translation is what I’m saying.
You gain a massive audience who gets to enjoy the story told in The Last of Us who otherwise wouldn’t get to.
Not everything is about complete artistic merit.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, March 09, 2020, 19:41 (1509 days ago) @ cheapLEY
You gain a massive audience who gets to enjoy the story told in The Last of Us who otherwise wouldn’t get to.
Not everything is about complete artistic merit.
The game sold 17 million copies. There is no way an HBO mini series would draw those numbers unless it was crazy popular like game of thrones. Which by the way was at about 20 million at its peak.
So I think the exact opposite to what you just said is true.
I'm excited about this.
by cheapLEY , Monday, March 09, 2020, 20:39 (1509 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by cheapLEY, Monday, March 09, 2020, 20:42
I’m actually not sure what your point is.
It’s not a numbers game. There are a huge number of people who have never played The Last of Us, will never play The Last of Us, but might watch The Last of Us on HBO.
Edit: The latest number I could find puts worldwide numbers of HBO subscribers at around 140 million. That’s a fuckload more than the 17 million that bought The Last of Us.
I'm excited about this.
by ZackDark , Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 02:25 (1509 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Edit: The latest number I could find puts worldwide numbers of HBO subscribers at around 140 million. That’s a fuckload more than the 17 million that bought The Last of Us.
Yeah, 20 million is not that much in the streaming market. Gotta think global, man.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 08:14 (1508 days ago) @ cheapLEY
I’m actually not sure what your point is.
It’s not a numbers game. There are a huge number of people who have never played The Last of Us, will never play The Last of Us, but might watch The Last of Us on HBO.
Edit: The latest number I could find puts worldwide numbers of HBO subscribers at around 140 million. That’s a fuckload more than the 17 million that bought The Last of Us.
My point is that it would have to be a bigger hit than Game of Thrones to reach more people on TV than it did as a game. And let’s be honest, it’s not going to be bigger than Game of Thrones.
Games are not a slum of storytelling anymore.
My point is that it would have to be a bigger hit than Game of Thrones to reach more people on TV than it did as a game. And let’s be honest, it’s not going to be bigger than Game of Thrones.
What? No it doesn’t. That doesn’t make any sense at all. You’re assuming that if it doesn’t have more than 17 million viewers, that all those people would have played the game already. Just looking at numbers means next to nothing.
It’s like assuming that every person who saw The Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter already read the books (only it’s an even sillier assumption, because the cost of entry is so much more for video games).
Games are not a slum of storytelling anymore.
No one is arguing that. There’s still a massive number of people that don’t play games but do watch TV and movies.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 11:57 (1508 days ago) @ cheapLEY
I guess we should make 2001 a space odyssey into a stage show, interactive art installation, comic book, video game, and interpretive dance. After all, there might be some people out there who haven’t seen the movie but would go see the stage adaptation! Right?! So many people were left off the table here. By your logic everything should be adapted into every possible media so everyone can experience it!
Are you just blazed out of your mind over the past few days?
If someone wants to turn 2001 into a stage show, I say go for it.
I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t do anything. I am saying that The Last of Us story is worth experiencing, but it’s a fairly difficult video game, and a prestige television series allows the translation of that story without all that much being lost in the process.
Why are you so determined to be a shitlord gatekeeper for the crap you like?
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:57 (1508 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Why are you so determined to be a shitlord gatekeeper for the crap you like?
I am merely predicting the reality of the situation. I’m totally going to watch this.
Why are you so determined to be a shitlord gatekeeper for the crap you like?
I am merely predicting the reality of the situation. I’m totally going to watch this.
Then I really don’t even understand what this conversation is about.
I don’t think your reality matches actual reality in this case. Your numbers argument just doesn’t make any sense to me.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 13:04 (1508 days ago) @ cheapLEY
Why are you so determined to be a shitlord gatekeeper for the crap you like?
I am merely predicting the reality of the situation. I’m totally going to watch this.
Then I really don’t even understand what this conversation is about.I don’t think your reality matches actual reality in this case. Your numbers argument just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Let’s make it clear: I’m saying it’s likely going to end up like the near entirety of game to movie / TV adaptations if they just straight up tell the story of the game.
I'm excited about this.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 13:21 (1508 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by Kermit, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 14:09
Why are you so determined to be a shitlord gatekeeper for the crap you like?
I am merely predicting the reality of the situation. I’m totally going to watch this.
Then I really don’t even understand what this conversation is about.I don’t think your reality matches actual reality in this case. Your numbers argument just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Let’s make it clear: I’m saying it’s likely going to end up like the near entirety of game to movie / TV adaptations if they just straight up tell the story of the game.
Yet you're unclear. Define your terms. What do you mean "like the near entirety of game to movie / TV adaptations"?
Whatever you mean, how would telling the story of the game contribute to that result?
Another question: would you call the LOTR movies a straight up telling of the novels?
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 14:17 (1508 days ago) @ Kermit
Why are you so determined to be a shitlord gatekeeper for the crap you like?
I am merely predicting the reality of the situation. I’m totally going to watch this.
Then I really don’t even understand what this conversation is about.I don’t think your reality matches actual reality in this case. Your numbers argument just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Let’s make it clear: I’m saying it’s likely going to end up like the near entirety of game to movie / TV adaptations if they just straight up tell the story of the game.
Yet you're unclear. Define your terms. What do you mean "like the near entirety of game to movie / TV adaptations"?Whatever you mean, how would telling the story of the game contribute to that result?
Another question: would you call the LOTR movies a straight up telling of the novels?
Go back and search my posts. I’ve explained numerous times how novel to film is vastly different than game to film. Novels do not use audio or video at all, and can gain a tremendous amount in a straight adaptation. You’ll find the answers to all three questions.
Why do you have to “gain” anything?
In any case, they are gaining accessibility. Is that not enough?
I'm excited about this.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 16:07 (1508 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Why are you so determined to be a shitlord gatekeeper for the crap you like?
I am merely predicting the reality of the situation. I’m totally going to watch this.
Then I really don’t even understand what this conversation is about.I don’t think your reality matches actual reality in this case. Your numbers argument just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Let’s make it clear: I’m saying it’s likely going to end up like the near entirety of game to movie / TV adaptations if they just straight up tell the story of the game.
Yet you're unclear. Define your terms. What do you mean "like the near entirety of game to movie / TV adaptations"?Whatever you mean, how would telling the story of the game contribute to that result?
Another question: would you call the LOTR movies a straight up telling of the novels?
Go back and search my posts. I’ve explained numerous times how novel to film is vastly different than game to film. Novels do not use audio or video at all, and can gain a tremendous amount in a straight adaptation. You’ll find the answers to all three questions.
I regret not having the time to comb through your past posts in order to piece together your argument. I get that you think it would be redundant because they use so many of the same elements, but I disagree because games are much less accessible to a great number of people (in this case I can give actual names of people from real life). What's unwarranted or unsupported are these assertions (which you won't clarify, but which I'll nevertheless attempt to express):
- Telling the same story is a waste of time.
- Telling the same story likely won't be successful.
- Telling a different story likely would be successful.
My thesis is this: I think this is worthy endeavor. The Last of Us is one of the first games to provide a narrative and performances on par with what I consider the premier storytelling form of our time (the long-form TV series)--a form that didn't fully mature until the last 25 years. The Last of Us was surely influenced by the high-water marks in this form--The Sopranos, The Wire, etc. That HBO, the birthplace of the prestige series, should buy into the material is a natural development and a good fit. There are parts of the script that are so perfect, I can't imagine changing anything, but there's plenty of room for creativity without changing a word. I'm thrilled to see a world so anchored in reality made flesh. And The Last of Us' few concessions to fantasy--the last vestiges of ludonarrative dissonance (e.g., recovering from gunshots with the quick wrap of a bandage) can be jettisoned once and for all. It can be better than the game.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 17:32 (1508 days ago) @ Kermit
It’s funny you mention ludonarrative dissonance. I’ve thought about this for a while, and I think as a problem it’s only 10% as severe as those who bring it up seem to believe it is. It all comes down to the vastly different functions of narrative in film versus a video game.
I’m absolutely with you there. It’s never bothered me at all.
However, I can absolutely understand how it might bother others. I can’t fault them for not being able to buy into Joel’s injury after having shrugged off who knows how many gunshot wounds.
I'm excited about this.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 04:44 (1507 days ago) @ cheapLEY
I’m absolutely with you there. It’s never bothered me at all.
However, I can absolutely understand how it might bother others. I can’t fault them for not being able to buy into Joel’s injury after having shrugged off who knows how many gunshot wounds.
It wasn’t a big issue for me, either. I’m a gamer. The degree to which The Last of Us did not ask us to suspend disbelief was part of what made it amazing. My point for Cody is that the story already follows the beats of a top-notch series. Presenting it in a game was impressive, but necessarily came with some restraints. I look forward to seeing it unbound.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 08:34 (1507 days ago) @ Kermit
I look forward to seeing it unbound.
This is what I’m talking about. It wasn’t bound in the first place.
I'm excited about this.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 09:04 (1507 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by Kermit, Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 09:10
I look forward to seeing it unbound.
This is what I’m talking about. It wasn’t bound in the first place.
More vague thises and thats. From the point of the view of the storytellers, yes it was. They had limited control over the pace, the POV, or what the player chose to notice or participate in (some of the best character development happened in optional conversations). Now the creators have the freedom to show whatever they need to show whenever and wherever it bests suits the narrative.
I agree that we'll lose some of what made the game special--namely the feeling that we were interacting with a live person (which Grant Voegle described so well), but in exchange we'll get a cinematic presentation of the full story (something Grant Voegle attempted to create), no doubt created by some of the best talent in the industry.
I'm excited about this.
by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:00 (1508 days ago) @ cheapLEY
My point is that it would have to be a bigger hit than Game of Thrones to reach more people on TV than it did as a game. And let’s be honest, it’s not going to be bigger than Game of Thrones.
What? No it doesn’t. That doesn’t make any sense at all. You’re assuming that if it doesn’t have more than 17 million viewers, that all those people would have played the game already. Just looking at numbers means next to nothing.It’s like assuming that every person who saw The Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter already read the books (only it’s an even sillier assumption, because the cost of entry is so much more for video games).
Games are not a slum of storytelling anymore.
No one is arguing that. There’s still a massive number of people that don’t play games but do watch TV and movies.
Right. Maybe everyone in Cody's social circle is a gamer and specifically a Playstation gamer, but in my world I have a large number of friends who I know would be impressed by the acting and storytelling yet they could not experience it.
More people is better. Good stories getting more exposure is better. The fact that the numbers of viewers will or won't exceed the number of gamers who are already fans is irrelevant. A significant number of people will have access to it who did not have access before. I don't know what's bad about that.
I'm excited about this.
by Cody Miller , Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, March 09, 2020, 16:24 (1509 days ago) @ Kermit
But when has there been a good video game movie?
Mortal Kombat, Sonic, and Detective Pikachu.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
The composer for the game music now included
by cheapLEY , Thursday, March 12, 2020, 11:58 (1506 days ago) @ Cody Miller
Gustavo Santaolalla, the composer has f the game has joined the project. That’s good news in my book.