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The Truth* about Shadebinder (Destiny)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| \[T]/, Tuesday, March 23, 2021, 21:21 (29 days ago)

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I've not played in PvP yet, but in playing Shadebinder in PvE today, I was surprised how good the changes felt to play. So this evening when this came across my way on da youtubs, it suddenly made sense (in part) why. Plus, this is a lot of fun to watch.

If this was to be tweaked (due to a damage output increase due to efficiency), I'd rather they keep the tracking of the projectiles and decrease the time in super. After all, if the goal is "Ice Wizard", than this makes it feel far more towards that goal (in PvE at least).

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by breitzen @, Kansas, Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 06:13 (29 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Obviously, it's a bug, but yeah, I love the idea of the tracking being really aggressive. Maybe if the bolts just slowed instead? IDK, I'm just not used to Warlocks getting nice things for very long.

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 07:04 (22 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

*

I've not played in PvP yet, but in playing Shadebinder in PvE today, I was surprised how good the changes felt to play. So this evening when this came across my way on da youtubs, it suddenly made sense (in part) why. Plus, this is a lot of fun to watch.

If this was to be tweaked (due to a damage output increase due to efficiency), I'd rather they keep the tracking of the projectiles and decrease the time in super. After all, if the goal is "Ice Wizard", than this makes it feel far more towards that goal (in PvE at least).

Disclaimer: I despise Stasis. Absolutely hate it. As far as I’m concerned, nothing short of removing it from the game altogether would be “enough”, but that obviously isn’t going to happen. IMO, for every moment of fun that Stasis creates, there are 50 moments of brain-melting frustration and “who the *#%& thought this was a good idea?!?” levels of confusion.

All that said, I think the idea of potent tracking on an ability that freezes opponents and shuts down supers is a disaster for PvP. There needs to be some kind of trade-off when it comes to abilities that you barely have to aim. The crucible is already plagued by too many things that kill you instantly and can’t be avoided outside of extremely niche circumstances. I think the recent round of stasis nerfs were a big step in the right direction, so I worry about anything that makes any Stasis abilities stronger than they already were.

PvE isn’t as bad, IMO. Stasis makes PvE too easy as it is, but it wouldn’t be that big a deal if it remained overpowered in that side of the game.

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 08:24 (22 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

PvE isn’t as bad, IMO. Stasis makes PvE too easy as it is, but it wouldn’t be that big a deal if it remained overpowered in that side of the game.

Do you think so? Is Stasis the go to for high level content? Freezing enemies is great, but I feel like I need either Devour or a well or invisibility or something for survivability and Statis just doesn’t provide that.

I think Stasis is pretty fun in PvE, but I have barely used it at all this season in PvE, as I just don’t think it’s good enough in high level content, but that may be because I’m just not good enough.

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by squidnh3, Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 08:47 (22 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Do you think so? Is Stasis the go to for high level content? Freezing enemies is great, but I feel like I need either Devour or a well or invisibility or something for survivability and Statis just doesn’t provide that.

Our all-Statis run of Garden of Salvation went really well, but that's probably because most of the encounters are about not letting enemies get to places, and freezing them or blocking them helps that out. It didn't go quite as well for Last Wish. Statis is definitely mostly useless for damaging bosses.

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 10:39 (22 days ago) @ squidnh3

Sort of related, I guess, but are Raids still considered high level content? I feel like most of them aren’t as difficult as even Master Nightfalls in terms of actual combat ability. Hell, I think I die more often in the average Battlegrounds than I do in any raid, although that’s probably because I’m not taking it as seriously and the punishment for dying is zero.

I guess it’s just a tangent now, but I really wish raids were more demanding in terms of the actual combat. I think that’s why I don’t raid much anymore. I love blind raiding and the next few weeks of becoming really familiar with any given raid, but they get boring pretty fast after they’re figured out. I think I could do my roles in Deep Stone with my eyes closed at this point. I know exactly which enemies will spawn from which doorways and when they will do so.

I want more combat in raids and less pushing the correct glowy thing. Skolas is a perfect scenario in difficult encounter design, I think. It’s mainly combat focused, with some added stuff to constantly manage. In most raids now, the actual shooting aliens parts feel secondary, and I think it feels kind of backwards.

In any case, I guess my point is that raiding didn’t even enter my mind when I said high level content. Survivability doesn’t seem to be the problem in raids at this point—it’s mostly just about damage output, which Stasis sucks for. I have a much more difficult time starting alive in Harbinger or Prophecy or Master Presage or even Master Nightfalls than I do in raids, and so I wouldn’t use Stasis for those activities, and would instead use something that has some more get out of jail free cards like wells or bubbles or invisibility. But again, maybe that’s just because I’m not skilled enough or not playing Stasis effectively, and maybe slowing or freezing everything around you is better than those other things.

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Stasis actually makes killing Unstoppable Champions worse

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 11:03 (22 days ago) @ cheapLEY

It resets their armor every time they freeze, which makes them much more ammo-intensive to kill, which in turn is a big no-no in high level Nightfalls. If I'm not mistaken, GM Nightfalls community strategies have strayed away from Stasis this season, so far. I definitely concede GM Nightfalls are super ultra championship edition endgame, though.

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 01, 2021, 09:26 (21 days ago) @ cheapLEY

PvE isn’t as bad, IMO. Stasis makes PvE too easy as it is, but it wouldn’t be that big a deal if it remained overpowered in that side of the game.


Do you think so? Is Stasis the go to for high level content? Freezing enemies is great, but I feel like I need either Devour or a well or invisibility or something for survivability and Statis just doesn’t provide that.

I think Stasis is pretty fun in PvE, but I have barely used it at all this season in PvE, as I just don’t think it’s good enough in high level content, but that may be because I’m just not good enough.

In terms of truly top-level PvE content, I think stasis is hit and miss. Depends on the specific strike/hunt you’re doing, your fireteam composition, etc.

But for general PvE play (most of which already tilts towards the east side), I think Stasis is just barely below God mode. You can slow/freeze entire groups of enemies so easily that the amount of incoming fire you take gets reduced to a minimum. Encounters are often just slightly more challenging than a shooting range against static targets. As a warlock, I can throw 1 grenade and have tracking freeze-bolts chain their way through all the other enemies in the room, while I casually walk up to each of them and punch them to death with zero risk. Hunters can throw their melee which track and bounce between enemies like captain America’s shield, freezing all of them, and all I have to do is walk up beside any of them and dodge to get my melee charge back, which I can then use to shatter everything that’s already frozen, or freeze more targets if there are any.

It’s all just so each, so forgiving, such low risk, requires little-to-no aim... the only real downside to Stasis in general PvE is that it’s a pain to play next to someone who is using it (depending on their exact loadout) because the damn ice walls they throw up all over the place get in the way of movement and block lines of sight.

The Truth* about Shadebinder

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 01, 2021, 09:29 (21 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

It’s all just so each, so forgiving, such low risk, requires little-to-no aim... the only real downside to Stasis in general PvE is that it’s a pain to play next to someone who is using it (depending on their exact loadout) because the damn ice walls they throw up all over the place get in the way of movement and block lines of sight.

Heh - we were doing Queen's Walk in Last Wish last night, and someone threw a wall grenade into the mix; it got between the ball-carrier and the rest of the runners. Almost caused a wipe. :)

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Thursday, April 01, 2021, 09:36 (21 days ago) @ Claude Errera

It’s all just so each, so forgiving, such low risk, requires little-to-no aim... the only real downside to Stasis in general PvE is that it’s a pain to play next to someone who is using it (depending on their exact loadout) because the damn ice walls they throw up all over the place get in the way of movement and block lines of sight.


Heh - we were doing Queen's Walk in Last Wish last night, and someone threw a wall grenade into the mix; it got between the ball-carrier and the rest of the runners. Almost caused a wipe. :)

LOL

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve either blown myself up with a rocket or come real close because some blueberry drops an ice wall right in front of me just as I’m about to open fire on a Fallen Brig or something :)

Related note, I got nailed in Trials last weekend by what was probably the best use of an Ice Wall grenade I’ve ever seen. I was playing a game of cat and mouse with a guy who was hiding around a corner from me. I was using Bastion, and continuously pre-charging it so I could nail him as soon as he came around the corner with his shotgun. I saw him moving on my radar, so I precharged in anticipation... only for him to barely peak around the corner (rather than rush me) and throw an ice wall grenade directly in front of me, just as my Bastion fired... meaning my Bastion shot right into his ice wall, which blew up and killed me. I was too amazed to be angry, lol.

I'd still be angry. :)

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, April 01, 2021, 09:41 (21 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

- No text -

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The Truth* about Shadebinder

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| \[T]/, Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 11:01 (22 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

Disclaimer: I despise Stasis. Absolutely hate it. As far as I’m concerned, nothing short of removing it from the game altogether would be “enough”, but that obviously isn’t going to happen. IMO, for every moment of fun that Stasis creates, there are 50 moments of brain-melting frustration and “who the *#%& thought this was a good idea?!?” levels of confusion.

All that said, I think the idea of potent tracking on an ability that freezes opponents and shuts down supers is a disaster for PvP. There needs to be some kind of trade-off when it comes to abilities that you barely have to aim. The crucible is already plagued by too many things that kill you instantly and can’t be avoided outside of extremely niche circumstances. I think the recent round of stasis nerfs were a big step in the right direction, so I worry about anything that makes any Stasis abilities stronger than they already were.

PvE isn’t as bad, IMO. Stasis makes PvE too easy as it is, but it wouldn’t be that big a deal if it remained overpowered in that side of the game.

An observation. It's not Stasis, its the powerlessness in a game of power. More than that, in fact.

So... sometimes I write up posts that never get posted, as what good is a post if y'all can't decipher the odds and ends my brain can bring together into some sort of social circuitry. I was thinking about how fast things can down you in PvP, weapons in particular where I managed to write up this;

Weapons that can just wash the fun away, as they are little fun to play against. I'll say that again, but slower... fun... to play... against. Not just WITH, but against. DUH! There is no conversation, rarely an aggressive chat, just *BOOM*, respawn so you can get hit again. Fun.

Weapons aside, which can very much be it's own lone topic, I think this is also quite true with Stasis which has a unique way that to bring about such frustration. This is despite the many manners of discombobulation we as players have in this game. Suppressor Grenades (Titan), Disorienting Blow (Hunter), Hunter Smoke Grenades, Gemini Jester Exotic, of course the Hunters Bow... there may be others, but I think that's it. Oh! Blinding grenades on single shot grenade launchers. What is it about Stasis that makes it any more obnoxious than any of these? At first the answer may seem to be ubiquity, which must admit definitely doesn't help. But really I think the answer is "that lack of conversation". Ubiquity would be irrelevant if we could reply in turn with whatever wits of battle we hold in the moment.

The suppressor grenade requires battle estimation, where will it bounce? The Melee requires a combo in locality to really get its pay off. In fact, that's actually a good overview for all of them, a combo in locality to really get its pay off. But not for Stasis. If game play is story, than apparently the Darkness is right, and there isn't even a contest. If you stand in a Warlock Well (Gambit), dead. Titan Bannershield is useless. Everything else super wise is simply delayed now if it isn't just nulled. Note if it was just the Supers that could pull this off, I suppose it wouldn't be AS annoying. We've put up with Bow Hunters since D1, and unless it's in Mayhem PvP, it's not all that annoying. I don't recall it getting much of the vitriol as Stasis has received anyway.

No, every single ability in Original Stasis (I'd like to think there shall be more tweeks down the line), including dropping a Warlock rift if you spec it right, can stop basically anything. I think the only things with any say is bubble, which at least does something to block all the maddness, and my personal fave Middle Tree Arcstrider.

I don't know what calls were made and why, but I think I would have designed Stasis differently.

With all THAT said... I disagree. The Warlock Stasis Super is useless unless a combatant/player gets "tagged" in some way. A Super should not be useless, I think we both can agree on that much. If you are out in the open, it's not just Stasis - any super really - you're going to have a bad time. Note in the clip showing off the tracking, they are testing it in very open rather unique spaces. If the stasis projectile hits anything, it's gone. As for a super that shuts down supers, again, how is it any different than bow? Admittedly it doesn't track, nor does it freeze... but per its AoE Range and Extreme restriction of movement, it's fairly the same. I'd even say the in the time it would take you to shoot the tether, should you be able to, you'd be unfrozen of Stasis, should you be able to.

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