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Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts (Criticism)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, July 19, 2022, 18:47 (19 days ago)

Oh. My goodness. WHAT?

We lost the elemental buffs. We lost the full use of the map, and the game inherently part of that. We lost the random endgame boss. We lost the "find chest" mini game. And to replace all that we got... Run to bad guy. Drop Ball. Throw ball. Repeat. Occasionally get interrupted by Taken. Big Takeen Boss. Loot.

That's it. Yeah, I know, Armor test, but this is about the "Game" called "Bonfire Bash".

There is a saying at Bungie, yes? "We make games we want to play", right? And often we may see that, yes, apparently the folks at Bungie do play their game.

By publishing this "rework" into live is, on the face of it, a self own. I don't know why it was changed. I don't know how much time was given to make it. But of WHATEVER time was given, was GROSSLY underfunded. Aggressively. To "play" this event is depressing. It's just...bad. The first time. And yeah, it still sucks in the second. I'm not sure if I'm going to give it a third unless something about this changes.

It is, with out a doubt, the biggest nothing burger we've seen since Curse of Osiris. Granted, Curse of Osiris was technically DLC (or whatever) while this is only a seasonal event, but, man. It's still a nothing burger. And... how many years has Destiny been in development now?

...

So, I'm going to let you in on something. Right now, I'm playing around with a post about the internet and Bungie and fans and all kinds of stuff. It's why I haven't filled this post with the more colorful edits my posts can have. And then, while I'm penning my thoughts to such things, Bungie goes and... I'll indulge for a moment, pulls their trousers down and fucking drops THIS soft serve. And that shall be the indulgence for a moment.

I feel mildly insulted. I quite actually feel insulted that I spent my whatever tens of minutes to even try this thing, it's so bad. I feel insulted, AS A BUNGIE FAN. We've done this 1000x more then ever should have been. What has been published today should not be in the state which it is in.

///*Why can't you be normal* *Screaming Child* Meme goes here.///

Bungie drops a steamer. Fans say this stinks. And more and more, time is given to let Bungie get their act together. Is it people? Is it funding? Is it allocated time?... no no, it's time probably, if not technical. I know. But, Bungo, YOU ARE THE ARBITERS OF QUALITY. YOUR NAME IS ON IT!

In the state that this THING, because it sure ain't no game in this event, did this need to be published? Was there honestly, no way to stop this thing from being squeezed out?

And so, in short, from one artist to SOOOOO MANY others... Bungie you should be ashamed of yourselves. How fucking dare you lower your standards to this.

Acta non verba.

(Tower looks kinda nice though.)

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Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, July 19, 2022, 19:46 (19 days ago) @ INSANEdrive
edited by cheapLEY, Tuesday, July 19, 2022, 19:50

I like it. I hated chasing down chests. As always, I just wish there was an actual difficult version.

I like the event overall. I like the challenges encouraging activities I haven’t done in ages. I did a bunch of Blind Well runs! The only bummer is those things don’t give Silver Leaves like the description says they should. I’m kinda tired of everything just pushing the playlist activities. There’s tons of fun stuff in the game—I’m tired of being told to play Gambit. It was neat to have a full instance of Blind Well again.

I do wish they would get more creative with their events. Warframe, The Division, and Borderlands all have events that take over the whole game. Special modifiers in every mode that really change things up, special enemies that randomly show up mid mission with unique gameplay elements. I want more of that instead of just doing shit we’ve done for years to earn whatever new currency they thought up to take into the event game mode to turn into a different currency.

I’m convinced 90% of the player base plays this game like cracked out monkeys looking for their next hit. I already saw a YouTube video about farming Silver Leaves by rotating characters with friends on a Witch Queen mission. I can’t imagine having so little respect for my time. I just don’t get it.

Also the new Hand Cannon fucking rules.

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Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, July 19, 2022, 20:41 (19 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I like it. I hated chasing down chests. As always, I just wish there was an actual difficult version.

[image]

I do wish they would get more creative with their events. Warframe, The Division, and Borderlands all have events that take over the whole game. Special modifiers in every mode that really change things up, special enemies that randomly show up mid mission with unique gameplay elements. I want more of that instead of just doing shit we’ve done for years to earn whatever new currency they thought up to take into the event game mode to turn into a different currency.

So, you like this event, but also wish they would get more creative with their events? (Which in the second half, I surly do agree with.) It's late, so I won't say much more, other than ...

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Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, July 19, 2022, 21:29 (19 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I can like something and also wish it was better. I play fucking Destiny, after all.

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Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Thursday, July 21, 2022, 21:17 (17 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I can like something and also wish it was better. I play fucking Destiny, after all.

So uh, ha ha. Very good. Indeed, but...uh... could you elaborate more on your previous post?

You say...

I like the event overall.

...and I'm wondering why that is. You mention you LIKE the challenges...

I like the challenges...

SEE! THERE IT IS!... yet just over a month ago you were mentioning your displeasure with challenges (in this case for Iron Banner). Why was something as (in my view) trivial as Subclass Restriction so bad, yet... (continuing from your quote)

... encouraging activities I haven’t done in ages.

...Is something you're ok with? Cus' we have these things called triumphs, and they are all over the map with things to do. But, in our play time together, triumphs don't strike me as a thing you're much all about. So what makes these challenges so different?

So when I responded with a double take of...

Futurama Robot: "What?!? ... What?!?"

...I was hoping for a touch more than a clever statement. I mean it. Please do take consideration in my expression of confounded surprise what it is I am questioning of you. You "wish it was better", but this is OK? Why is this OK, but something else is just the worst? Was chasing down chests...

I hated chasing down chests

Yes yes, I know I know, I'm getting to that...you said that you hated chasing down chests, so now that we don't have that mini game, does that mean you're glad we can't have 30 second supers any more either, as well as all the other things at this point no longer part of this "event"?

Yes... I do see you mentioned "Special modifiers". I stand by my question. Too much of what you say conflicts.

And yes, I may already have a vague idea on some of your answers to this, and yes some of these questions are very narrow (especially for me), but, I'd rather not presume if I can help it. Please. I made this post, starting out, remarking on my displeasure on what I see with this years "event".

You say other wise.

Re-gale brother.

Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, July 21, 2022, 23:19 (17 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I'm not F000CH, but what he said about enjoying being pushed by the challenges connected with me.

I haven't done regular strikes in quite some time. Same with Throne World activities (especially Wellspring - which gives you 10% per, more than most things there). I haven't played much Dares of Eternity. Being asked to go back to those activities to earn the event currency is enough of a prod (for me) to discover that I enjoy that stuff, even if I don't remember to play it all the time.

I NEVER liked the actual event activity - I didn't like it when there were chests to chase, I didn't like it when I could get stuck on the geometry long enough I couldn't get to the disappearing special guy, I didn't like falling when I missed my jumps. I still don't like it - but it goes faster now, so I dislike it less.

I like the armor I've earned, and I like the events I'm asked to participate in to earn it - so I'm glad the Solstice exists... I'm just pretty happy I don't have to waste as much time in the EAZ.

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Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts

by cheapLEY @, Friday, July 22, 2022, 05:05 (17 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

All of what Claude said stands for me as well.

Admittedly, I took three months off from Destiny, and now that I’m playing again, I just remember how much I like the game. And especially how much I like the parts of the game that aren’t “current,” so having an event challenge tell me to do those old things I haven’t done in ages is a fun twist on how Destiny is normally played.

The difference between these challenges and the IB ones is restrictions. The IB challenges dictate how I played. It restricted my subclass choice. For a game about playing how I want and building my own monster killing machine or whatever dumb marketing bullshit they’re using now, they sure are pretty intent on not letting me actually do that. These event challenges just let me play the damn game.

I can’t speak to whatever modifiers from the past you’re taking about. I only ever did the first EAZ event. I’ve skipped the last couple of Solstices. But no, it doesn’t sound like something I’d have like. I hate Mayhem, for instance. Having constant supers is not a fun way to play Destiny to me. That’s why I wish there was a more difficult version of the EAZ. The game is so brain dead easy already, making it even more so with constant supers isn’t fun. If I could flip a switch and turn literally every activity in the game to something equivalent to the Legendary campaign, I would. No question.

I would dearly love a more comprehensive event that truly changes the way I play Destiny, something that twists the whole game in some fun way. However, I’m fine with the current event. I’m not a Triumph chaser, not even a little. I don’t even look at them anymore—I just don’t care. These event challenges aren’t the same thing, though. For one, I need to do them to full upgrade a full set of armor. And, as I said, I liked going and doing Blind Well again. I liked it enough that I kept running it after the challenge was done. I’m looking forward to going and doing Altars of Sorrow for a challenge.

EAZ is neither here nor there for me. I never articulately enjoyed it. Chasing shit down and having to climb and look through the buildings was always tedious and never fun for me. I like that the current iteration doesn’t ask that of me. I can just shoot shit and be done. I’d love if it was more challenging and actually engaging, but I’ll take this over having to run all over the map for no real reason.

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Updated Solstice Event "Bonfire Bash" Thoughts

by cheapLEY @, Friday, July 22, 2022, 07:33 (17 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I never articulately enjoyed it.

How the hell does autocorrect turn actually into articulately?

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Something else:

by cheapLEY @, Friday, July 22, 2022, 18:21 (16 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Speed once told me my sentiment towards Destiny depended on whether I was actually currently playing it or not. That’s definitely true (though less so than it used to be, I think). It’s easy to peer in from the outside and think “wow, that seems like dogshit, who made that decision?” It’s easy to think that while in the thick of actually playing, too, because seriously, who makes some of the wild decisions over there? But it’s easier to forgive what probably is a mediocre event (or whatever other criticism) when I’m just having fun playing the game.

I wish the entire game was a little less tedious, but after years and years, I’ve finally reached a point where it doesn’t affect me like it used to. I still chase things, but I no longer let the chase be the thing I’m doing. I used to let the stuff I wanted dictate my play time at the cost of fun. Hunting down those stupid things on Mars to finish the Wayfarer title was maybe the least fun thing I’ve ever done in Destiny, but I wanted the title and it was getting retired, so I felt obligated to do it. There’s no way in hell I’d do that today. I truly don’t pay attention to Triumphs anymore. I claim them so the menu quits blinking at me, but if it didn’t, I probably wouldn’t even do that.

I wanted a DFA last week, so I ran a bunch of GM Nightfalls. If I hadn’t been having a bunch of fun running those Nightfalls, I wouldn’t have done that, though. I like the DFA, but I wouldn’t have wanted one bad enough to grind through some shit I didn’t enjoy to get one.

I look at this event the same way. Rerolling armor is cool, and it’s something I hope they continue to explore. I already have tons of great Artifice armor, though, and it’s so easy to get in the new Dungeon, so the current event armor isn’t a draw for me. I certainly don’t think it looks good, so that’s not a seller either. I might upgrade a full set if I do enough of those challenges to get the Kindling. I’m having enough fun that it’s pretty likely, but if I stop having fun, I’ll just stop doing it.

The problem I see lots of folks having with the event is the misguided notion that they have to do it. I see folks complaining about having to do it in every character to get a set. That’s the problem—so many people seemingly feel obligated to do everything, to get everything. The game becomes much more enjoyable if you can shed that mindset. Instead of looking at everything as an obligation, I’ve tried to approach everything as an option. This event is a neat diversion for me, but for others it’s a guaranteed way to get some decent high stat armor. I don’t need that armor at all, so it’s not a driver for me. It’s just another option I can engage with if I want, ignore if I don’t. With the exception of the power grind (which I will always call out as horseshit), the entire game is that for me, and it’s so much better for it.

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What is the collective bar for quality?

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Saturday, July 23, 2022, 17:37 (15 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I've had a little epiphany. The Bonfire Bash? It's just a reskinned Black Armory. Yet, unlike Black Armory, which I was fine with, for some reason with this Bonfire Bash Mode (and I'm not sure why*)...

---
*Right before I posted, after I finished writing all of this, it occurred to me that it may be because there is beyond no challenge what so ever. It's not just easy, it's a conveyor belt of worthless trash adds. And every time you play it, it's the same thing, in the same way, done again the same. It's actually greek hell. What have you done BUNGO! D:
---

BONFIRE BASH MIGHT BE THE MOST REPREHENSIBLY BORING THING I'VE EVER PLAYED IN THE ENTIRETY OF MY DESTINY CAREER! ...it hurts. I feel actual pain in the spirit of me -interacting- with this mode. And to make things EVEN FLIPP'N WORSE, all the Event Bounties are REQUIRED to be done ONLY in Bonfire Bash.

Event Bounties are my Jam, y'all. SO, UH, TO THAT EFFECT...

PAIN. PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN!!! >_<

BUNGIE WANTS US TO DO THIS SAME-Y SAME SHIT FOR THREE WHOLE WEEKS?!?!!? AAAAAAAAAAAA! THE DESTINY 2 BETA WAS MORE ENGAGING THAN THIS SHIT! Son-of-a-Bitch! THIS EVENT IS SO UNDER-BAKED FOR ME, I FEAR I MIGHT SOMEHOW CONTRACT SALMONELLA THOUGH MY TV SCREEN. Because, EVERY TIME I PLAY IT, I FEEL LIKE IT MIGHT BE ACTUALLY KILLING ME. IT'S! SO! BORrrrrrING!!!

TL;DR:

SEND HELP! D: ;_; ...*cry* *whimper*

*AGGRESSIVE SIGH* ...lol.

...

...man alive...

...

Ok... alright, with the emotive side of me indulged, now maybe I can respond with some cognizance. I'll start this with, Thank You. And Thank You All. And then, perhaps, I can continue with an ever encompassing...

Yeah.

...

What I have to say first is a given, since its Cheap & Wu who made the posts;

  • I, in turn, had found mild enjoyment in the former actual event activity, both in the EAZ and outside it.
  • I enjoyed the on the spot randomized challenge of the chests to hunt down. The randomization of things in the gameplay helped keep things mildly fresh.
  • I didn't mind getting stuck on the geometry long enough that one is unable get to the disappearing "special guy" (A.K.A Rolling a 1).
  • ...falling when I missed jumps... wait... hold up...

Come on Wu. Really? That's not Bungies fault. Get good man, jeez alive. When you stub your toe, do ya blame the pavement?! lol

  • I greatly enjoy Mayhem.
  • I enjoy (most) of the Supers.
  • I'm just going to mention Arcstrider in here, cus' I kinda have to.
    • OMG Bungo please don't screw it up with Arc 3.0.
      • Arcstrider haters gonna hate.

And yet I can find parity with a want in an increase of difficulty for event spaces (Note: More than I apparently realized when I was writing this!), but then again that's because that's true across the board, WITHOUT the context of an event span. Shoot, give us a Legendary Mode Patrol and depending on how its all handled it'll be a safe call that this game would light its self up, no Traveler needed. We got the slightest taste of what that would be like in D1 with Vault of Glass and some early Beta play, and... and I digress.

Indeed, as we all are to my eyes. Likes and Dislikes? Heh, we speak with what we know but, what I have to say and have said is larger than that. I should probably prefix this; I'm not here to dictate anyone on their taste, though I suppose we all sure do tempt sometimes. Y'ALL CRAZY! NO U! :P

I should also say, I am not the fun police. I have neither any want nor inclination toward such silliness. As long as no one gets hurt, shit ain't gettn' damaged, so on so on... then hey. Go and do you. We gonna' do what we gonna' do.

But as I said, all this talk of "I like this" and "you like that" and so on so on is incredibly incidental against why I made the post at all. Yes, I did ask for some of it, and I thank you. I wanted to be sure there wasn't some outlook I missed. Some purview I did not see. Thank you. I did not make this post just because I found this event to be so instantly boring. Such alone is not why I said;

"Bungie you should be ashamed of yourselves. How fucking dare you lower your standards to this."

... which is quite strong. Isn't it?

Why would I say such a thing for something which, is frankly, an excuse to inject both an "Amazon holiday" into Destiny (which is probably Codys fault somehow ;D), and a little more time of "something to do" into the season while things wrap up. To space things out and give a little more time to prepare for the next season. Well, I said such strong words for the same reason in part why I gave Glaives such a poor rate against the Destiny Sandbox, despite their utility.

(Ok, so I'm going to hurt some brains now. Nothing personal.)

It's because, there are those who act as if function alone is more important than the sum of its parts. And regardless from where the source or context comes from, I must refute such a take. It's slow death. The sum is a factor in the effectiveness and ability of the function, but for those whom act in their conclusions with function alone, I've found often it brings to it a sort of... "good enough". Which then, effects the quality and the motivation to keep said quality. Because you can always fall back on "good enough", but "good enough" is never (or is very loosely) defined. And so the quality slips, because as long as the thing does the thing, who cares?

"The Sum" does. And if you screw up "The Sum" enough, things break. And then that is a whole 'nother world of hurt.

(Ok, you can breath now.)

Well, golly gee INSANEdrive. WTF does this have to do with your Original post & (most of) cheapLEY's responses?

Oh, just a question built on top of my observation.

...And that is?...

What is the collective bar for quality? This is why I posted my double take, as well as for reasons already mentioned. I just declared how awful this event is, and in come Cheap saying "I like it". Ie-ie ie-ie ie. So, then what is the collective bar for quality?

For the fandom in whole? Not sure if it's possible to find out beyond gross approximation. I swear the fandom at large change their calls like a Class VI River Rapids. Us here at DBO? Well, I'll broadly peck at y'all at the end. Bungie? Well, I can't speak for Bungie on this either, nor am I going to try to guess. But I can compare what Bungie has published now against what Bungie has published in the past.

We are in the latter half of a FULL GOSH-DARN'd decade of this game being developed. In the last year and a half (so farther than that in reality, it's just what we've seen in such span), Bungie finally seemed to find whatever behind-the-scenes equilibrium was needed to bring forth wave after wave of quality content. Seeing as we all have our calls for what "Quality" might mean, let's presume that it means for most players, that the Destiny Content is enjoyable and engaging. Bonus points if it's something you want to play again.

I think it's safe to say that we've had quite a lot of quality as of late, AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN. But, because of that, this quality we've had for a period of time, the result is now the bar has been raised. We have seen a consistency in quality.

Which leads us to, finally, this updated event now simply called "Solstice". What happened of the heroes? Who knows! All the same, these next three weeks are supposed to be an "event". An event is "a noteworthy happening," to quote Webster. It's supposed to be a change of pace to mix up the play.

This is the part where "function" vs "sum of its parts" comes in.

So far, the only thing of note which has been "mixing up the play" after a long season, seems to be a bug (unless proven otherwise) with the Dream Work Origin Trait. Not a feature. The armor thing is cool, but that's the CHASE, not the GAMEPLAY. I hope it's safe to say this in my presumption, but hopefully we can agree, GAME PLAY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE CHASE! And yes, I suppose the chase could be considered a factor in the gameplay, but it is not the gameplay out right. It's a side hustle. A bonus on top of the play. The dungeon is the play, and the loot is the hustle, yeah?

There is nothing in this event do define it, and certanly not compared to what it was before. It functions like one, it's all kitted up and shiny, with a special limited play space and all that. But in the sum of this event, the play of the event, there is NOTHING which stands out. Halloween didn't have this issue. Dawning neither. They both have the trappings and the play themed off of what those respective events are about. Or at least relatably so. Thus, for this "Soltice" event, the end result is that this whole "event" thing is hardly even above a normal public event in thrill, if even any thrill at all. Far far lower, if you ask me, but I repeat myself. Both inside the "event space" and outside in the rest of the activities have nothing which stands out. (I miss the elemental buffs ;_;).

This "event" went backwards, EVEN IF, there are those of us here tho LIKE IT this way. Those of you who are finding the fun in the challenges which bring you to play past content? I'm happy for y'all, truly. Happy DBO is a good DBO.

But, real talk folks, this is AN EVENT FOR YOU??!

Cuz' folks, if this is what you call an event, it's nothing personal but I do not want to come to your Birthday Party. Flipp'n room temperature water with a side slice of tofu (not the silken kind), while the pruned up exotic dancer sits melting in the chair over in the corner, reading War and Peace. (There's a "your mom" joke in there somewhere. lol XD)

Bro, I'm out. lol.

Just more of the same is not an event. It's more of the same. This EAZ is less event, and more utility (uh oh that word again) for the Open Beta Test of the "Build-able" Armors. It's a gross slog. If they took it out and changed it so that you redeemed "leaves to dust" somehow in any patrol space, there would be little to no change in game play, and in fact it would be an improvement (probably, somehow). You'd get to choose the battlefield to mix up the play on. Still wouldn't be much of an event, but it would be better than what we got.

I think Bungie missed their newly established bar for quality. Bungie can do better. So Bungie... do better!

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Long Ramble:

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, July 23, 2022, 19:39 (15 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Sorry, this is long and rambling, and only mildly an actual response to points you've made. It's just a train of thought I went down. Excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes, as I'm far too fucking lazy to actually proofread all of that. Excuse any bad takes, as I'm just a goddamn idiot.

I don't fundamentally disagree with anything you said.

I don't think this event is fantastic by any means. When I said that I liked it, I did mean it, but that's within the context of just enjoying playing the game. I really like stuff that asks me to do old activities that are long forgotten. I don't think challenges rewarding necessary materials is the most interesting way to do that, but I'll take what I can get. I don't have a good solution, but I will always wish that Destiny was a more cohesive experience that made use of old stuff in interesting ways instead of just moving on to the next thing. That's unrealistic, I think, as it would mean continually developing old stuff, bringing it up to snuff, integrating it with new stuff. I just don't know how they would realistically do that (especially when you know at least half the fan base would just bitch about reusing old content).

I think Destiny is really hit or miss as a long term game such as it is. It's fun to play on a fundamental, moment to moment level. If I had my choice, I'd much rather a return to the old expansion model. I'd take a House of Wolves or even a Warmind once a year in addition to the big yearly expansion over the seasonal model any day of the week. Despite how good the story has been, I don't find the seasonal stuff to be all that compelling. It's up and down. This season was pretty decent, mostly because I think turning the Leviathan into a miniature patrol was pretty novel. I like the weekly cap missions more than just about any other they've done so far. I didn't really like the Shattered Plane stuff from two seasons ago at all. The space was cool and interesting, but having to return week after week with new upgrades wasn't than appealing, especially after week two when it was obvious what was happening. I could see all the stuff that I would eventually be able to do, but waiting until I can just get the correct upgrade was not a compelling way to handle it. That they continued that trend with the upgrades in Savathun's Throne World was pretty annoying to me, to be honest.

This event is just the extension of that philosophy. I'll be honest, in that I think most of the "events" in Destiny are mediocre at absolute best. They're sometimes fun diversions, but they're mostly just more easy, mediocre bullshit to keep people playing (or, more charitably, giving players something to do in the absence of anything else). I can't think of any event that was genuinely captivating at all, much less for more than an evening or two. I don't think this event is any better than that, but it's unobtrusive in a way that I can appreciate, and, again, I genuinely appreciate stuff that at least gestures at all the old, cool stuff Destiny has to offer, and in a way that doesn't feel mind-numbing. I already mentioned loving doing the Blind Well. I got that challenge done in I think three Heroic runs. That's perfect. I'm surprised they were so charitable, honestly. I'd have expected needing ten or fifteen runs, because that how they normally seem to handle it. Hell, they ask for 25 Crucible games. I just happen to be playing a bunch of Crucible right now, so I got that done before I even noticed. If that had asked specifically for 25 games of Gambit, I'd have immediately written that off and probably been annoyed.

And that's the biggest problem with this event or any activity in Destiny. Doing anything over and over again becomes tedious, and that's what Destiny just is at this point. Which is where difficulty comes in. I've run Duality multiple times a week nearly every week since it dropped, but that's because it's challenging enough to be engaging (although even that is fading at this point). I genuinely like doing the solo Lost Sectors because it's a miniature puzzle to figure out. What's the optimal loadout and path through this thing? That's the sort of repetition I can handle, that's why raiding for the first few weeks after a new one drops is so fun. I wish the default challenge of Destiny wasn't "I have no thumbs," but I understand why it works that way.

I still think Destiny has tons of room for improvement, and I do feel like Bungie has just found their comfort zone and is resting on their laurels a little bit. They've found the thing that works and are happy to just continue doing it. Maybe that's not fair and maybe it's not even true, but it's what it feels like. As long as they keep putting out stuff like Duality, I'll be here for it, though.

As for the chase not being the game, I think you're wrong. That's not to say that I personally disagree with you, but the community has spoken in that regard. Every time I bring up Power Level and chasing bullshit on the subreddit, I get downvoted to shit. I genuinely think the majority of people playing Destiny do see the chase as the game, or as the most important thing in the game. Lots of people do play this game just to see the numbers go up or to grind out the exact perfect roll on every weapon they'll shove in their vault and never use and bitch about vault space until the end of time.

I'm no longer sure what my point even is. I think the quality of Destiny is a real mixed bag. The problem is mostly pacing and tedium--the game asks for too many completions of the same tired old content. And I think I've figured out the key to enjoying it all, and it's just to slow the fuck down and only do the stuff that's actively enjoyable. Dares of Eternity is a perfect example. When it was the new thing, how many people bumrushed it to max out Xur rep? I hate myself if I do three of them in a row. It's not that it's not an enjoyable activity, but doing it over and over and over and over again is a recipe for annoyance at the very least. Instead, I do a couple per week, and I'll probably hit max reputation eventually.

So my answer to you, as unhelpful and frustrating as I know it is, is to just don't play Solstice. If you don't like it, just ignore it. The armor isn't good enough to be worth it. The Hand Cannon is cool, but is it really better than any other 120 hand cannon you have sitting in your overstuffed Vault? And I don't say that as a way to excuse a bad or mediocre or lazy or whatever event (as I feel like lots of people do), but just as advice to someone I see getting frustrated with the game. The game has tons of other fun activities to do--do those instead. Or play a different game or whatever.

I understand where you're coming from. I've probably been the most vehement critic of Destiny and Bungie's decisions around these forums for a while now. I probably will be again someday. I can say it's better if you can just let it go. There's a difference between seeing the dogshit and wanting it to be better and letting it make you angry. I was angry for a while, or at least bitter about it. But, although it definitely won't make the game any better as a whole, it certainly makes it more enjoyable to just start ignoring the shit you don't want to play.

I'm not sure it's true anymore, but I still envision Bungie designing Destiny as a buffet of things to enjoy. Lots of options to cater to many tastes. The loot distribution is good enough to support this. Sure, if you don't play Dares you can't get a BxR, but you can get and Insidious instead from the raid, or a New Purpose from the new dungeon, or a Peace of Mind from PsiOps, etc. I know it can be kindof difficult and annoying, but accepting that I don't need the exact thing from the activity I don't like playing and that any other weapon is realistically just as good in nearly any situation has been a real change in my enjoyment of Destiny.

I have a hard time talking about so much and making it make sense as a cohesive point, but I hope I've at least gestured towards something approaching one. In short, Destiny becomes more fun the less of a shit you give about the specifics. I used to feel like that's giving up, like it's just accepting a lower bar of quality. Maybe it is, but I've honestly been starting to feel like it's how the has always been meant to be played. It's a not a checklist of shit you must do--it's a menu of stuff you can engage with at your leisure. That's not totally true (fuck you Power Level system--I genuinely hope you die in a fire), but the game has been much better for me with that approach.

I say all this with the caveat that my attitude towards Destiny is a switch that flips seemingly at random. Some stuff just feels totally fine one day and like total horseshit the next with no real explanation. The other night, I told Korny it was neat that core playlists weapons drop with more perks in each column as you reset your ranks. He laughed and told me I bitched about that exact thing months ago in response to a TWAB in post here. I'm sure he's right. That's the dichotomy of Destiny--it's a fine idea with mediocre execution that relies on too much tedium. Instead of being upset about it, though, I'll just play the game and take whatever I get. I'll never see a Gambit weapon with multiple perk choices, but I'm into my third time around on Vanguard and Crucible, without even focusing on do that. I just naturally played the stuff I wanted to play and that's where I ended up. That's the strength of Destiny.

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Long Ramble:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 08:17 (15 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I will always wish that Destiny was a more cohesive experience that made use of old stuff in interesting ways instead of just moving on to the next thing. That's unrealistic, I think, as it would mean continually developing old stuff, bringing it up to snuff, integrating it with new stuff. I just don't know how they would realistically do that (especially when you know at least half the fan base would just bitch about reusing old content).

See, this is so interesting to me. Halo was generally criticized for making you play AotCR backwards in Two Betrayals, and reusing content and geometry in general even though the experience is pretty different each time. So that's… suddenly good now?

I'm not sure it's true anymore, but I still envision Bungie designing Destiny as a buffet of things to enjoy. Lots of options to cater to many tastes.

This is MY general problem with MMOs and Live Service games. I dunno, in my opinion it's just better to have a focused experience that's always great for the people who like it, and those who don't just won't play. The buffet just means everyone is kinda sorta pleased, but never reaching the highs of fine dining. I get that's the type of game that makes the most money, but it's not the type that makes me most happy to play.

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Long Ramble:

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 09:04 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I will always wish that Destiny was a more cohesive experience that made use of old stuff in interesting ways instead of just moving on to the next thing. That's unrealistic, I think, as it would mean continually developing old stuff, bringing it up to snuff, integrating it with new stuff. I just don't know how they would realistically do that (especially when you know at least half the fan base would just bitch about reusing old content).


See, this is so interesting to me. Halo was generally criticized for making you play AotCR backwards in Two Betrayals, and reusing content and geometry in general even though the experience is pretty different each time. So that's… suddenly good now?

I’ve never had that complaint. I love the back half of Combat Evolved taking us back to old spaces. The problem with doing so in Destiny is just burnout. I liked running Blind Well again, but how many hundreds of times had I run it previously? In an ideal world, they make use of that space and format, but actually develop it and twist it somehow to make it feel fresh. They nailed that this season by bringing the Leviathan back and making it a patrol zone with a new aesthetic, then setting the weekly story missions in familiar areas in the underbelly. It’s truly brilliant. It’s returning to familiar ground in a new way. It’s the back half of Combat Evolved executed nearly perfectly.

I'm not sure it's true anymore, but I still envision Bungie designing Destiny as a buffet of things to enjoy. Lots of options to cater to many tastes.


This is MY general problem with MMOs and Live Service games. I dunno, in my opinion it's just better to have a focused experience that's always great for the people who like it, and those who don't just won't play. The buffet just means everyone is kinda sorta pleased, but never reaching the highs of fine dining. I get that's the type of game that makes the most money, but it's not the type that makes me most happy to play.

I used to agree with that. I still do in many ways. But I’ve come to appreciate the things live service games like Destiny and Warframe and Genshin bring to the table. I’m not sure I could really articulate exactly what it is. I’m honestly not sure I’d still be playing Destiny if it had just been Halo, as much as I always talked about wishing for exactly that. There is absolutely something compelling about being able to return for new stuff every few months. And, for as many problems as it causes, there’s something pretty awesome about the PvP side not being some partitioned mode with separate rules, and instead utilizing all the same gear and abilities I use in everything else. It’s just neat.

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Long Ramble:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 09:34 (14 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Cody Miller, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 09:40

I’m honestly not sure I’d still be playing Destiny if it had just been Halo, as much as I always talked about wishing for exactly that.

Me neither, but that's a good thing in my opinion. I don't think any game can support almost a decade of play while maintaining a high fun per second rating. In my mind the fact that people are still playing Destiny is not an achievement, but a failure. The reasoning is much the same as why I ultimately didn't really enjoy Halo Infinite.

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Long Ramble:

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 09:46 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I guess I disagree with that. My long ass post was that I only play the stuff in Destiny I’m actively have fun with. And there’s still nothing else in any FPS that even comes close to providing the same experience as raids or dungeons.

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Long Ramble:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 09:53 (14 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I guess I disagree with that. My long ass post was that I only play the stuff in Destiny I’m actively have fun with. And there’s still nothing else in any FPS that even comes close to providing the same experience as raids or dungeons.

Wouldn't it be cool… if there was a game that was nothing but dungeons and raids? One you put down after you've conquered the challenges of them? One where you could just play them without having to get to a certain power level? :-p

Long Ramble:

by Claude Errera @, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 10:02 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Wouldn't it be cool… if there was a game that was nothing but dungeons and raids? One you put down after you've conquered the challenges of them? One where you could just play them without having to get to a certain power level? :-p

I gotta say... a good part of the fun of dungeons and raids are the people you're playing with. Our wednesday night group has played together (with a few substitutions) since D1, and that's really frickin' cool. Sometimes people leave (for real-life reasons), and then come back a while later... if we were playing games that you played until you were done and then moved on, they might never come back - in fact, I doubt the group would stay together if we had to keep picking new games to play every month or two.

You play games your way. I play them mine. I'm totally okay with that, but you usually don't seem to be. I don't get that.

(And the power level thing is way less important than it used to be, so it's hardly worth arguing about.)

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Long Ramble:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 10:13 (14 days ago) @ Claude Errera
edited by Cody Miller, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 10:22

Wouldn't it be cool… if there was a game that was nothing but dungeons and raids? One you put down after you've conquered the challenges of them? One where you could just play them without having to get to a certain power level? :-p


I gotta say... a good part of the fun of dungeons and raids are the people you're playing with. Our wednesday night group has played together (with a few substitutions) since D1, and that's really frickin' cool. Sometimes people leave (for real-life reasons), and then come back a while later... if we were playing games that you played until you were done and then moved on, they might never come back - in fact, I doubt the group would stay together if we had to keep picking new games to play every month or two.

This is exactly the point. The buffet isn't memorable because of the food, but whom you're eating with every week. Just seems weird to me praise the buffet for that, and not your friends. The social aspect is entirely why the "buffet" style game design really works in the first place.

Long Ramble:

by Claude Errera @, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 10:40 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Wouldn't it be cool… if there was a game that was nothing but dungeons and raids? One you put down after you've conquered the challenges of them? One where you could just play them without having to get to a certain power level? :-p


I gotta say... a good part of the fun of dungeons and raids are the people you're playing with. Our wednesday night group has played together (with a few substitutions) since D1, and that's really frickin' cool. Sometimes people leave (for real-life reasons), and then come back a while later... if we were playing games that you played until you were done and then moved on, they might never come back - in fact, I doubt the group would stay together if we had to keep picking new games to play every month or two.


This is exactly the point. The buffet isn't memorable because of the food, but whom you're eating with every week. Just seems weird to me praise the buffet for that, and not your friends. The social aspect is entirely why the "buffet" style game design really works in the first place.

You praise the buffet because other presentation styles don't ALLOW for that sort of relationship. Yes, I'm praising the friendship - but I'm also praising the gameplay loop of the buffet game that is compelling enough to bring us back week after week.

::shrug::

I have tons of issues with Destiny... but at the end of the day, I really enjoy playing it. Would I enjoy it more if all of the activities were more engaging than they are? Sure. Do I think producing that much content that regularly is sustainable? No. It's a tradeoff I'm willing to live with. And I'm totally okay with it being one others don't like - I don't need to be playing the game that everyone loves, just the game that I love (as long as there are enough others like me that I have a team :) ).

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Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 10:55 (14 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I used to call Everquest the world's most over-developed chat room, because I didn't really care for the gameplay or the setting but I kept playing it just to talk with people.

It's an absurdity that games I think of as being good at facilitating community have these weird relationships with players and in their esteem describe them as being almost…abusive. It's not enough that it just has communication features and represents a virtual "Third Place" (in fact I don't really use ANY of Destiny's communication features.) There is some attribute(s) in a type of game that supports this kind of thing. I think part of it is that most of the gameplay does not require rapt attention. It needs to offer that kind of tension, but most of the time you would not want the distraction from the socializing. I think this might be related to the "easy" charge leveled at D2 here, but it is slightly different. I do think that being too hard would also interrupt the social aspect. I think we have all seen conversations end or relationships turn acrimonious in a Raid. People don't usually become more pleasant people when they struggle.

The only time I can think of a game that I really liked as a game on its own but also had a solid and long-lived community for me was Halo 3, and honestly I don't know if that was the game or just the fact that we all came out of I Love Bees together which is a game that was magically powerful for knitting together a group of players. There was a couple of semi-solid groups that came out of the BC2-B4 era of battlefield, but it still felt more like a pickup group in the park than an actual social unit.

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Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 11:33 (14 days ago) @ Vortech

It's an absurdity that games I think of as being good at facilitating community have these weird relationships with players and in their esteem describe them as being almost…abusive. It's not enough that it just has communication features and represents a virtual "Third Place" (in fact I don't really use ANY of Destiny's communication features.) There is some attribute(s) in a type of game that supports this kind of thing. I think part of it is that most of the gameplay does not require rapt attention. It needs to offer that kind of tension, but most of the time you would not want the distraction from the socializing.

It also needs to be structured to keep players coming back, to facilitate the social interactions to begin with. As Claude said, if you put the game down after finishing it, how do you continually play it with your friends? And the only possible way to do this is to draw things out in terms of activities and grind, since it's impossible to create new substantially polished and interesting content for everyday someone might log on.

This is why the "abusive" relationship you describe is basically required for social games. The exception I guess would be something like Second Life, where players create things and there's no narrative or game "goal".

Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by EffortlessFury @, Monday, July 25, 2022, 09:10 (13 days ago) @ Cody Miller

This is why the "abusive" relationship you describe is basically required for social games. The exception I guess would be something like Second Life, where players create things and there's no narrative or game "goal".

Despite "emergent gameplay" having its pros and cons, it can also be a non-"abusive" way of providing such a platform. Minecraft is a good example. I've never been able to get into it because it's not fun for me solo but for me the allure would be contributing to a larger goal. Having a persistent server with people I know would support that social aspect while allowing us to do whatever it was that struck our fancy.

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Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, July 25, 2022, 10:43 (13 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

This is why the "abusive" relationship you describe is basically required for social games. The exception I guess would be something like Second Life, where players create things and there's no narrative or game "goal".


Despite "emergent gameplay" having its pros and cons, it can also be a non-"abusive" way of providing such a platform. Minecraft is a good example. I've never been able to get into it because it's not fun for me solo but for me the allure would be contributing to a larger goal. Having a persistent server with people I know would support that social aspect while allowing us to do whatever it was that struck our fancy.

What's a con of "emergent gameplay"?

Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by EffortlessFury @, Monday, July 25, 2022, 11:35 (13 days ago) @ Cody Miller

This is why the "abusive" relationship you describe is basically required for social games. The exception I guess would be something like Second Life, where players create things and there's no narrative or game "goal".


Despite "emergent gameplay" having its pros and cons, it can also be a non-"abusive" way of providing such a platform. Minecraft is a good example. I've never been able to get into it because it's not fun for me solo but for me the allure would be contributing to a larger goal. Having a persistent server with people I know would support that social aspect while allowing us to do whatever it was that struck our fancy.


What's a con of "emergent gameplay"?

Emergent gameplay, being the experiences that fill in the empty space designed around them, aren't as meticulously craftable. I'd argue that emergent gameplay experiences can't reach the same quality ceiling as directly crafted gameplay. That said, the floor is bottomless for both, so there's nothing wrong with emergent gameplay.

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Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Monday, July 25, 2022, 22:18 (13 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

Emergent gameplay, being the experiences that fill in the empty space designed around them, aren't as meticulously craftable. I'd argue that emergent gameplay experiences can't reach the same quality ceiling as directly crafted gameplay. That said, the floor is bottomless for both, so there's nothing wrong with emergent gameplay.

I'm not sure I would agree. Combos were "emergent gameplay" in Street Fighter 2, and they ended up being so interesting that they are now a basic part of every single fighting game made for the last 3 decades.

Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by EffortlessFury @, Tuesday, July 26, 2022, 07:46 (13 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Emergent gameplay, being the experiences that fill in the empty space designed around them, aren't as meticulously craftable. I'd argue that emergent gameplay experiences can't reach the same quality ceiling as directly crafted gameplay. That said, the floor is bottomless for both, so there's nothing wrong with emergent gameplay.


I'm not sure I would agree. Combos were "emergent gameplay" in Street Fighter 2, and they ended up being so interesting that they are now a basic part of every single fighting game made for the last 3 decades.

Except that this case of emergent gameplay can also be designed explicitly, therefore it is not a gameplay experience exclusive to emergent gameplay. That doesn't disprove my thought.

I can't really prove my thought, nor can it be disproven. It's a feeling, and I acknowledge it as such.

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Someone else's lightly-structured thoughts

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, July 26, 2022, 09:34 (12 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

Emergent gameplay, being the experiences that fill in the empty space designed around them, aren't as meticulously craftable. I'd argue that emergent gameplay experiences can't reach the same quality ceiling as directly crafted gameplay. That said, the floor is bottomless for both, so there's nothing wrong with emergent gameplay.


I'm not sure I would agree. Combos were "emergent gameplay" in Street Fighter 2, and they ended up being so interesting that they are now a basic part of every single fighting game made for the last 3 decades.


Except that this case of emergent gameplay can also be designed explicitly, therefore it is not a gameplay experience exclusive to emergent gameplay. That doesn't disprove my thought.

All "emergent gameplay" can be designed explicitly. All of it is the interaction of rules in the software code, which is created by people. It doesn't appear from the realm of the supernatural, uncontrollable by man.

Anything that's the result of two or more game rules interacting can be intentionally designed.

Emergence in systems is the result of unaccounted for OUTSIDE influences. Nothing outside the game code can influence the state of the game, except for cheating devices which change memory (and thus the code), or something like a cosmic ray flipping a bit.

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Long Ramble:

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 11:38 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Honestly? No, I’m genuinely not sure that would end up being a very fun game. But there’s a middle ground, and Destiny is straddling it pretty well.

As Claude said, they’re making trade offs that I can live with in order for Destiny to continue to exist. Yea, there’s tons of room for improvement. I’d love if everything in the game was at least as engaging as playing Halo 1 on Normal. Lots of it is far easier than playing it on Easy with the AR modded to shoot Warthog rounds. I’m not sure there’s a realistic solution to that problem for Destiny. I wish they would adopt The Division 2’s world tier and modifier systems, but I can live with what we’re getting if the story continues to work as well as it is and we keep getting stuff on par with Duality. Nightfalls are still engaging, Crucible is a fucking mess, but when had it ever not been, and it’s still fun. Destiny has far more good than bad, especially when bad really just means “this is a little mindless.”

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Long Ramble:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 11:40 (14 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I’d love if everything in the game was at least as engaging as playing Halo 1 on Normal. Lots of it is far easier than playing it on Easy with the AR modded to shoot Warthog rounds. I’m not sure there’s a realistic solution to that problem for Destiny.

Isn't that what Legendary difficulty introduced in Witch Queen was for? From what I heard, it was pretty well received as being interesting and challenging, but not punishing.

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Long Ramble:

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 12:10 (14 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Yeah, it was really fantastic.

There’s no such option for patrols or seasonal activities. Nightfalls have a bunch of difficulty options, and Master mode in Dungeons and raids, and that’s great. I want something like Legendary difficulty for Patrols and the Seasonal activity and even the current Solstice event.

The problem is they lock higher difficulties out of matchmaking. Meaning you have to find friends who want to do that stuff or basically don’t do it. It’s tedious to solo say a Legend strike. It’s possible, and it’s an okay novelty occasionally, but we’re at the point in Destiny where I don’t think it’s justifiable for those things not to have matchmaking.

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Long Ramble:

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, July 24, 2022, 14:49 (14 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Yeah, it was really fantastic.

There’s no such option for patrols or seasonal activities. Nightfalls have a bunch of difficulty options, and Master mode in Dungeons and raids, and that’s great. I want something like Legendary difficulty for Patrols and the Seasonal activity and even the current Solstice event.

Sounds like expanding Legendary to all activities is a step in the right direction.

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Long Ramble : Response

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, July 25, 2022, 10:00 (13 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Sorry, this is long and rambling, and only mildly an actual response to points you've made. It's just a train of thought I went down. Excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes, as I'm far too fucking lazy to actually proofread all of that. Excuse any bad takes, as I'm just a goddamn idiot.

Why would you be sorry? This was lovely. Do you have any idea how happy I am that I not only got a response, but one that is a well-enough (;D) worded ramble? Most posts are hardly this juicy. That said though, YOU WATCH YOURSELF BUCKO! There's only enough room in this forum for one guy and his ludicrously large rambling something something what was I talking about? :P lol

"It's just a train of thought I went down" is part of the fun if you're healthy about it! And in summary to what I read here, I by and large, uh, *nod* at what you say, but it's as if the frequency is different. Its quite interesting, and I'm not sure how else to put it. Some of the things you say, I'd say too, but in how I'd say it, I suppose. Like for me, instead of the original "I like it", which now has the context of

I don't think this event is fantastic by any means. When I said that I liked it, I did mean it, but that's within the context of just enjoying playing the game.

I'd say "it's about par, maybe a little less", even though me me says its WAY UNDER PAR. Little things. Stuff like that, I suppose. And from one idiot to another, you're too hard on yourself.

Now lets get to the meat and potatoes.

As for the chase not being the game, I think you're wrong. That's not to say that I personally disagree with you, but the community has spoken in that regard. Every time I bring up Power Level and chasing bullshit on the subreddit, I get downvoted to shit. I genuinely think the majority of people playing Destiny do see the chase as the game, or as the most important thing in the game. Lots of people do play this game just to see the numbers go up or to grind out the exact perfect roll on every weapon they'll shove in their vault and never use and bitch about vault space until the end of time.

The community is crazy. I would know, I'm three of them. And at this point, the larger Destiny Community in its blind calls may have broken just about as much stuff about Destiny as Bungie has, more or less. Both in and out of the game. Be it the Trash of Twitter doing what they do best outside the game, or the thus far still stagnating "Collections" System which I in-part rambled about in my Mad Opus upon Organization & Management Capacity in this blasted game, the community is crazy.

I would know, I'm four of them.

Admittedly, my apparent rebuttal about the community, and it's dire madness, is also quite easy to say. Rather lazy too, in fact. Very assumptive, but something we can all agree with somehow in someway.

...well, good thing it's all moot. That's right, In actuality I'm saying that disagreeing out of consideration of the community is crap. Total horse. The community are not the arbiters of quality, even if some of them in their fandom hearts (HIIII BUNGIE!) want to, be it directly or indirectly. At most, the community is the conscience of quality. I mean, we sure do NAG enough.

The difference is the capacity for collective professionalism, access to all the data, and the perks of knowing what you're working on for things 6 or 9 months down the line. (Nice.) Big picture stuff. Apparently the folks at Bungie even play their game, though as I've made clear time and time again, it is at times QUITE DIFFICULT to reconcile such.

Yes, the community has its takes... many MANY takes, and occasionally are right about it. Sometimes even so collectively! But I think it would be naive to think, especially now, that the community holds all the cards. So yeah, with some folks, "number go up = neutron activation" is the fun. But it does not, I'll add intrinsically, make the chase the game. Unless a person finds some deep satisfaction in the slot machine, and I hope they can find help if so, its frankly more often than not a cheap thrill. No one, sans special conditions or a story behind it, is going to call "SO AND SO DROPPED FOR ME" a memory.

But, solving a problem, figuring out the right kit, doing what you can to survive and be effective in a solo lost sector, or as a team in a dungeon or raid, that's where memories are made. That's where the game play lives. And that's where we can see the emphasis has increasingly been put upon, otherwise there would be no solo lost sector NOR dungeons. If it was only about the chase, this game would have gone hardcore "cellphone" long ago.

(Oh, and it's why by and large, I have so much stuff in my vault! ;D)

----

I think I've figured out the key to enjoying it all, and it's just to slow the fuck down and only do the stuff that's actively enjoyable.

Truly, oh Sage, you are a zen master of great and powerful wisdom. ;D

Indeed, oh wise one, I hope to see this emblazoned on a wall, much like you see with that "Live, Laugh, Love" crap. In fact, maybe I can do one better...

[image] [image]
Nailed it! lol.

The Hand Cannon is cool, but is it really better than any other 120 hand cannon you have sitting in your overstuffed Vault?

[image]

Depending if I get the right the roll, I might replace the Vulpecula Headstone roll I have (also doubled up perk wise with Shoot to Loot & Harmony), but have been hesitant to get rid of as the doubled perks give me more options as I'm making builds. This roll is also very closely matched up to a Eyasluna I have, sans the doubled perks. If I can get a Wellspring & Headstone with some combination of Smallbore, Flared Magwell, & a Reload Masterwork, I'd be able to give myself a new option to play with, while also removing a mild redundancy. (The default reload speed on "Something New" is way too casual for my liking, and this way would at least match the speed of the Vulpecula roll I have.)

As for the shotgun "Compass Rose", I already got a PvP "God Roll" last year;

Full Choke, Assault Mag, Quick Draw, Snapshot. Reload Masterwork. It's a very snappy roll.

Hoping to get a PvE Roll of;

Rifled Barrel, Assault Mag (or Accurized Rounds), Lead from Gold (or Fragile Focus), Incandescent. Range Masterwork.

If I can get that, or something close to it, I then can do something else (still not sure yet) on "Without Remorse" (and remove from my vault the roll of it with Incandescent). I'm always trying to tune up and improve what the options are which I have to play with. One of these days I really should share a whole bunch of the Builds I've made. Now, if only Bungie would let me retroactively compress my PvE & PvP rolls into one gun, I could greatly reduce the dupes I'm holding for varied purposes.

There's a difference between seeing the dogshit and wanting it to be better and letting it make you angry.

Not angry. Rarely am I actually angry. Bemused? Frustrated? Flabbergasted? Surprised? Dumbfounded? Or even some combination of such, sure. But not angry.

I have a hard time talking about so much and making it make sense as a cohesive point, but I hope I've at least gestured towards something approaching one.

You did good.

In short, Destiny becomes more fun the less of a shit you give about the specifics. I used to feel like that's giving up, like it's just accepting a lower bar of quality.

You can do both. If it's shit, you can call it out, all while not actually giving a shit. Of course, it also matters in HOW and in what manner that calling out is done, but ultimately I think you can enjoy the ride, as long as you're sure nothing it getting hurt. But if you see something wrong, well man, call it out.

I say all this with the caveat that my attitude towards Destiny is a switch that flips seemingly at random. Some stuff just feels totally fine one day and like total horseshit the next with no real explanation. The other night, I told Korny it was neat that core playlists weapons drop with more perks in each column as you reset your ranks. He laughed and told me I bitched about that exact thing months ago in response to a TWAB in post here. I'm sure he's right.

Yep. You do seem to have your moods.

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Long Ramble : Response

by cheapLEY @, Monday, July 25, 2022, 10:26 (13 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I think I've figured out the key to enjoying it all, and it's just to slow the fuck down and only do the stuff that's actively enjoyable.


Truly, oh Sage, you are a zen master of great and powerful wisdom. ;D

Heh, I did worry I was going to come off a bit like that. Who the fuck am I to say shit like that when I’ve made more angry posts about this game than maybe the rest of you combined. I’ve certainly let a whole lot of bad or underdeveloped or even just mediocre stuff in Destiny irritate me more than any video game ever should.

Mostly, I’ve just given up. Destiny is the game that is. I wish it were better in many ways, it has so much untapped potential. But to reach that potential (for me), it would have to change on a fundamental level, and that’s clearly never going to happen. So now, instead of shouting into the void (unless you count Xbox party chat as the void), I’m just here for the ride. When the ride is fun, I’ll be all in. If the ride sucks, I’ll skip it until the next one comes around. I’m trying to be done with being so invested in it, although I’m smart enough to know I’ll never stop playing entirely, nor am I even at the point where I want to do that anymore. Destiny’s highs are among the tallest, and it’s lows aren’t all that low in the grand scheme, and, at least, are mostly ignorable instead of game-breakingly bad.

And hey, at least it’s not Halo Infinite.

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Long Ramble : Response

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, July 25, 2022, 13:44 (13 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I think I've figured out the key to enjoying it all, and it's just to slow the fuck down and only do the stuff that's actively enjoyable.


Truly, oh Sage, you are a zen master of great and powerful wisdom. ;D


Heh, I did worry I was going to come off a bit like that. Who the fuck am I to say shit like that when I’ve made more angry posts about this game than maybe the rest of you combined. I’ve certainly let a whole lot of bad or underdeveloped or even just mediocre stuff in Destiny irritate me more than any video game ever should.

...

And hey, at least it’s not Halo Infinite.

Again, you're too hard on yourself man. It's all in jest and fun, with no intent to mock at all. And yes, indeed, at least it's not Halo Infinite. Where "Competitive" is more important than fun.

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