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Hopes/expectations for Lightfall? (Destiny)

by Anna Komnene, Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 08:18 (497 days ago)

Lightfall comes out in four months, or about another season and a half. Bungie revealed some information about it back in August, but I want to know what DBO hopes to see. Would you like to see the Guardians "lose" in Lightfall? A revamped Vanguard playlist? A couple more multiplayer maps? Tell me!!!

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 09:48 (497 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

I have to say, playing through some of the older Halo games on Legendary really highlighted for me just how terribly dumb the Destiny enemy AI is. I want to have more tactical fights, not just brute-forcing my way through waves of thrall. But I sort of think that's a tall order… maybe for D3??

The more reasonable hope is for reduced complexity in relation to gear, mods, stats, etc. Or at the very least a more digestible way of understanding how all of these play together. The systems really exploded in complexity with the 3.0 elements, which seems to be a function of increased flexibility, but since Destiny is a side hobby and not a full-time job for me, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around everything. Catering to Tha Streamerz™ has not done us any favors…

How about you?! What's on your list?

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by Robot Chickens, Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 12:13 (497 days ago) @ Beorn

The more reasonable hope is for reduced complexity in relation to gear, mods, stats, etc. Or at the very least a more digestible way of understanding how all of these play together. The systems really exploded in complexity with the 3.0 elements, which seems to be a function of increased flexibility, but since Destiny is a side hobby and not a full-time job for me, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around everything. Catering to Tha Streamerz™ has not done us any favors…

Honestly, they've taken the plunge into build crafting sooo deep that I don't think they'll ever change.

This was a big hurdle for me last year when they started to roll out. I actually checked out for a while and then just decided to let other people make the decisions for me. Once I played with some "preset" builds, I got a good feeling for how all the systems worked and could really hone it in to my playstyle. Now I can actually really appreciate it, but it really isn't something you can do switch up easily without DIM and that is a shame. Mactics does a pretty good job of breaking down builds and explaining how the pieces of a puzzle fit together- although his language is a bit hyperbolic at times. Here's then one that got me into it.

Void Hunter: Always invisible

Also, Hi and welcome back! Rellekh still has found memories of you guiding her through her first VoG clear.

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 12:27 (497 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

The more reasonable hope is for reduced complexity in relation to gear, mods, stats, etc. Or at the very least a more digestible way of understanding how all of these play together. The systems really exploded in complexity with the 3.0 elements, which seems to be a function of increased flexibility, but since Destiny is a side hobby and not a full-time job for me, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around everything. Catering to Tha Streamerz™ has not done us any favors…


Honestly, they've taken the plunge into build crafting sooo deep that I don't think they'll ever change.

This was a big hurdle for me last year when they started to roll out. I actually checked out for a while and then just decided to let other people make the decisions for me. Once I played with some "preset" builds, I got a good feeling for how all the systems worked and could really hone it in to my playstyle. Now I can actually really appreciate it, but it really isn't something you can do switch up easily without DIM and that is a shame. Mactics does a pretty good job of breaking down builds and explaining how the pieces of a puzzle fit together- although his language is a bit hyperbolic at times. Here's then one that got me into it.

Void Hunter: Always invisible

Also, Hi and welcome back! Rellekh still has found memories of you guiding her through her first VoG clear.

To add to what Robot was saying, I'm finally letting the YouTubers do the work. They often include links to DIM so you can copy their load outs without a lot of work. I admire the people that get into it, and there's part of me that would love to experiment and figure it all out for myself, but it's hard enough for me to find the time to finish the basic content and get exotics.

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 07:52 (496 days ago) @ Kermit

To add to what Robot was saying, I'm finally letting the YouTubers do the work. They often include links to DIM so you can copy their load outs without a lot of work. I admire the people that get into it, and there's part of me that would love to experiment and figure it all out for myself, but it's hard enough for me to find the time to finish the basic content and get exotics.

Is part of it that because of the MMO elements of the game, experimentation is discouraged because of the time investment? That seems like a problem to me. If it takes a long time to get the mods and level everything up, then experimenting and getting it wrong would be a huge waste of time and frustrating. I could understand just turning to streamers to see what works best.

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by Robot Chickens, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 09:39 (496 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Is part of it that because of the MMO elements of the game, experimentation is discouraged because of the time investment? That seems like a problem to me. If it takes a long time to get the mods and level everything up, then experimenting and getting it wrong would be a huge waste of time and frustrating. I could understand just turning to streamers to see what works best.

I don't think time investment is the problem. I got all the mods and tools rather passively. It is also low-cost to retool your armor mods etc so FOMO or sunk-costs on builds is pretty minimal. The big thing is that if you want to try different builds, juggling requires a 3rd party app because switching back and forth is just insane without them.

You can also ignore these systems completely and have a good time, but it can start to make a difference in end-game content. I was playing Challenge mode King's Fall with Claude and noticed that my character was definitely weaker because I had shied away from the systems. After biting the bullet and following the youtubers, it turned out to be really fun to engage with them.

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by Anna Komnene, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 10:39 (496 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

The big thing is that if you want to try different builds, juggling requires a 3rd party app because switching back and forth is just insane without them.

Getting a builds switcher in Lightfall!!!!!

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I'm excited and skeptical

by Robot Chickens, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 11:33 (496 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

The big thing is that if you want to try different builds, juggling requires a 3rd party app because switching back and forth is just insane without them.


Getting a builds switcher in Lightfall!!!!!

If it's like the dress-up tool they added, it'll be great! If its like the Companion App, well...

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What did you think of Witch Queen's legendary campaign?

by Anna Komnene, Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 14:37 (496 days ago) @ Beorn

A lot of people really liked that for the challenge.

As for the complexity of builds, I find myself not too bothered by it. For me, the system is good in that it allows me to go as deep as I want and no further. For example, there's this dude whom I've raided with several times. He has a friend, and this friend knows so much more about the game than I ever will or want to invest in. And that's fine. I know enough to get the play style I want, and I'm able to get there on my own. Mostly. There are some things that I have to look up, but only because some stuff isn't explained in-game.

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What did you think of Witch Queen's legendary campaign?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 15:58 (496 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

A lot of people really liked that for the challenge.

As for the complexity of builds, I find myself not too bothered by it. For me, the system is good in that it allows me to go as deep as I want and no further. For example, there's this dude whom I've raided with several times. He has a friend, and this friend knows so much more about the game than I ever will or want to invest in. And that's fine. I know enough to get the play style I want, and I'm able to get there on my own. Mostly. There are some things that I have to look up, but only because some stuff isn't explained in-game.

Lol! Are you talking about Alex who plays with my friend who we are definitely not doxxing right now?

I'm glad you mentioned the Witch Queen campaign. That's what gives me the most hope for what's next.

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If you think I'm referring to HAYDEN PEAKE, then yes, I am.

by Anna Komnene, Wednesday, October 19, 2022, 17:39 (496 days ago) @ Kermit

I was previously holding off talking so openly about HAYDEN PEAKE on the forums here so soon, given that he and Nick helped me complete a Master Nightfall.

But your latest message helped me realize something: HAYDEN PEAKE has trolled me many times, so I think it's more than fair that I mention HAYDEN PEAKE in this kind of manner on the forum.

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you MONSTER!

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 13:09 (496 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

Sorry, Hayden, when you find this.

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He reads the forum?

by Anna Komnene, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 15:42 (495 days ago) @ Kermit

Meh.

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He reads the forum?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 18:10 (495 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

He has, but regardless, at some point the google will lead here.

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He reads the forum?

by Anna Komnene, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 18:48 (495 days ago) @ Kermit

[Game of Thrones meme] Hayden is Coming

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It was Legen… dary!

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Sunday, October 23, 2022, 18:42 (492 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

A lot of people really liked that for the challenge.

I loved the Legendary campaign, and I want all future Destiny solo content to be like that. Felt properly tuned to slow you down a bit and provide a challenge without being completely overwhelming.

There are some things that I have to look up, but only because some stuff isn't explained in-game.

And yeah, this has been a problem since Day 1…

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 07:46 (496 days ago) @ Beorn

The more reasonable hope is for reduced complexity in relation to gear, mods, stats, etc. Or at the very least a more digestible way of understanding how all of these play together. The systems really exploded in complexity with the 3.0 elements, which seems to be a function of increased flexibility, but since Destiny is a side hobby and not a full-time job for me, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around everything. Catering to Tha Streamerz™ has not done us any favors…

This is a genuine question I have. It's been almost 4 years since I've played this game, so I'm curious about this.

If someone were to pick up Des2ny now, today, and they didn't go on /r/DestinyTheGame for help, how many of the systems in the game currently are 'discoverable'? Just how complex are they? I kind of felt like Des2ny already had a bit of that problem when I stopped, so I'm curious where it's at now.

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by squidnh3, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 09:53 (496 days ago) @ Cody Miller

If someone were to pick up Des2ny now, today, and they didn't go on /r/DestinyTheGame for help, how many of the systems in the game currently are 'discoverable'? Just how complex are they? I kind of felt like Des2ny already had a bit of that problem when I stopped, so I'm curious where it's at now.

Interfacing with the mod system is a little like trying to learn how to play a deck builder tabletop game (e.g., Dominion) without a rulebook, using only the text on the cards.

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 10:07 (496 days ago) @ squidnh3

If someone were to pick up Des2ny now, today, and they didn't go on /r/DestinyTheGame for help, how many of the systems in the game currently are 'discoverable'? Just how complex are they? I kind of felt like Des2ny already had a bit of that problem when I stopped, so I'm curious where it's at now.


Interfacing with the mod system is a little like trying to learn how to play a deck builder tabletop game (e.g., Dominion) without a rulebook, using only the text on the cards.

And doing it without most of the cards until Ada sells the one you need every six months.

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Smarter Enemies and Reduced Complexity

by ManKitten, The Stugotz is strong in me., Thursday, October 20, 2022, 11:57 (496 days ago) @ Cody Miller


If someone were to pick up Des2ny now, today, and they didn't go on /r/DestinyTheGame for help, how many of the systems in the game currently are 'discoverable'? Just how complex are they? I kind of felt like Des2ny already had a bit of that problem when I stopped, so I'm curious where it's at now.

Well, I'm your typical dumb-dumb that doesn't do things like "read instructions" and I have no idea how to do anything. I mean, scroll down a bit to see that I just learned that armor has elemental powers. If you're curious if something is accessible on the surface, just ask me and see if my eyes glaze over or not.

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Smarter Enemies

by Robot Chickens, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 11:45 (496 days ago) @ Beorn

I have to say, playing through some of the older Halo games on Legendary really highlighted for me just how terribly dumb the Destiny enemy AI is. I want to have more tactical fights, not just brute-forcing my way through waves of thrall. But I sort of think that's a tall order… maybe for D3??

I still feel like HCE on Legendary had the best mix of difficulty scaling and combat behavior I've ever played against. I didn't need elites or brutes to mount boxes so I could snipe them out mid-climb. Eh, you can never go home again.

I wonder if it has to do with networking, lag, etc. Reach felt pretty good for AI, but fell apart with a bad connection. For Destiny, in order to get the smoothness of movement for players and the ability to navigate increasingly more complex geometry, I wonder if they just had to gut the AI to compensate. It really is jarring for company responsible for Halo to have released Destiny's AI. That being said, I do think they've done a decent job of balancing challenge by just throwing lots of thrall at you, which are fun do delete en masse with ridiculous powers/abilities.

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Smarter Enemies

by Beorn @, <End of Failed Timeline>, Sunday, October 23, 2022, 18:48 (492 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

I wonder if it has to do with networking, lag, etc. Reach felt pretty good for AI, but fell apart with a bad connection. For Destiny, in order to get the smoothness of movement for players and the ability to navigate increasingly more complex geometry, I wonder if they just had to gut the AI to compensate. It really is jarring for company responsible for Halo to have released Destiny's AI. That being said, I do think they've done a decent job of balancing challenge by just throwing lots of thrall at you, which are fun do delete en masse with ridiculous powers/abilities.

Yeah, I suspect the network model/requirement is probably a huge contributor to the style of AI in the game. I was really disappointed in the Lightbearer Hive… they weren't smart or even particularly difficult to combat. Instead, Bungie just made them cheat and let them spam their supers and grenades every few seconds. The most "tactical" part of combating them was to make sure you were close enough (and safe enough) to finish off their Ghost before they respawned.

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Hopes/expectations for Lightfall?

by ManKitten, The Stugotz is strong in me., Thursday, October 20, 2022, 11:53 (496 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

Recognizing my play style is not the norm for someone who is actively vocal, I know that there are still people out there like me who fall into the "committed casual" sect.

I like that continue the story a little bit each week, it allows things to drag out at a trickle pace, instead of just hooking me up to a firehose. However, it would be nice to see some diversity in those weekly activities. The last few seasons, it's been "Go play seasonal event 1, now go play seasonal event 2, now go talk to 5 different venders all in different locations" - every week.

It seems like they have their hot zone locations, and places like the Moon, Nessus and now Earth are none-essential destinations.

I really enjoyed deciphering the treasure maps you unlock this season, even though the rewards were menial (which is ok) I enjoyed the steps along the way.

As long as they don't MAKE me play crucible.

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Hopes/expectations for Lightfall?

by Robot Chickens, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 12:03 (496 days ago) @ ManKitten

I like that continue the story a little bit each week, it allows things to drag out at a trickle pace, instead of just hooking me up to a firehose. However, it would be nice to see some diversity in those weekly activities. The last few seasons, it's been "Go play seasonal event 1, now go play seasonal event 2, now go talk to 5 different venders all in different locations" - every week.

^This. I would like be able to progress the weekly story by playing a dedicated mission. It doesn't have to be a crazy big one, just a fun one. Release a seasonal activity on theme if you want to get rewards etc, but don't make me hate it by requiring it to play the story. The seasonal activities are fun the first 1-5 times. I think I would even enjoy it beyond that if it weren't required.

Hopes/expectations for Lightfall?

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, October 20, 2022, 12:15 (496 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

I like that continue the story a little bit each week, it allows things to drag out at a trickle pace, instead of just hooking me up to a firehose. However, it would be nice to see some diversity in those weekly activities. The last few seasons, it's been "Go play seasonal event 1, now go play seasonal event 2, now go talk to 5 different venders all in different locations" - every week.


^This. I would like be able to progress the weekly story by playing a dedicated mission. It doesn't have to be a crazy big one, just a fun one. Release a seasonal activity on theme if you want to get rewards etc, but don't make me hate it by requiring it to play the story. The seasonal activities are fun the first 1-5 times. I think I would even enjoy it beyond that if it weren't required.

With 3 characters, you have to advance it 3 times to get rid of the quest. (Yeah, I know, I can abandon it.) You don't even get goodies for 2 and 3. :( (I'm thinking specifically of the weapon Spider 'gives' you this season, each week.)

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Hopes/expectations for Lightfall?

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 08:53 (490 days ago) @ Anna Komnene

I think the thing I'm most excited about is to move away from Savathun's featureless throne world. Hive architecture has never been my favorite part of Destiny. There's just a smoothness, sameness, and boringness that always seems to come with it. That section over there is the apothecary, you say? How can you tell? There's nothing external to the Light-drenched Hive chitin structure that makes me think of a place to mix and formulate medicines and drugs. There was certainly very little inside that made me think I was in a place of experimentation and solutions and arcane combinations of exotic elements searching for revolutionary concoctions.

Constast that with Mara's Dreaming City. There's not really that many more distinct materials in use over there... but from the foggy shore to the sparkling, twinkling crystal tunnels, to the spacious elegant rooms inside the towering white buildings, to the beautiful gardens... there's something more to the non-Hive destinations that I really enjoy a lot more.

And, now we have Bungie saying that they're trying to add more detail and senses of place to Neomuna. A location that, even by itself, already screams that it's more visually interesting than the Throne World. If nothing else, I'm very much looking forward to the rad, neon-lit secret city.

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lol, I'm probably going to forever call "Neomuna"...

by Anna Komnene, Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 08:55 (490 days ago) @ Ragashingo

"Neptune City," becuase that's just a lot easier to say/remember. And honestly? I think it sounds cooler.

Thanks for your response! I can see that about the throne world, though I do like Hive Architecture. I'm looking forward to grappling around, personally.

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Hopes/expectations for Lightfall?

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, October 27, 2022, 14:46 (488 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I think the thing I'm most excited about is to move away from Savathun's featureless throne world. Hive architecture has never been my favorite part of Destiny. There's just a smoothness, sameness, and boringness that always seems to come with it. That section over there is the apothecary, you say? How can you tell? There's nothing external to the Light-drenched Hive chitin structure that makes me think of a place to mix and formulate medicines and drugs. There was certainly very little inside that made me think I was in a place of experimentation and solutions and arcane combinations of exotic elements searching for revolutionary concoctions.

My feelings exactly. Although the hive-based expansions have been very solid, it's my least favorite aesthetic in Destiny.

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