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Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video (Destiny)

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, December 09, 2013, 13:08 (2691 days ago)
edited by Ragashingo, Monday, December 09, 2013, 13:56

Located here

Was about eight minutes mostly of Lars Bakken saying that they weren't ready to talk about things. A couple of key points were revealed though:

- Guardians have a dual health system of armor supplemented by a much smaller reserve of health with the health varying by class and presumably the amount of armor varying by what armor you are wearing. Other affects such as class specific skills (damage resistance while running was giving as an example) will also come into play.

- Voice chat in Destiny will be restricted exclusively to your Fireteam. Not just be default, but it sounded like this was a hard rule. If you want to talk to someone else you would need to use your platform's built in voice chat system, the 360 and PS4 were mentioned specifically.

Does this imply anything about cross platform play? In my view it discourages the idea that multiple platforms will be playing together since a 360 will never do voice chat with a PS4, but multiplatform play was not the topic at hand and it's tough to read anything into a couple of sentences...

- It was said that max Fireteam size will be six players with different game types having different sizes and the matchmaking system filling in extra players as needed like in Halo. Interestingly, if I heard right, you still don't get voice chat with those extra people. You still only communicate with your hand picked fireteam.

- Other things mentioned: possibility of weapon power scaling to make competitive multiplayer fair, in game (storyline based?) events that will strongly encourage players to look beyond multiplayer, and that Destiny will have a faster competitive multiplayer time to kill than Halo did (booo!)

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Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Monday, December 09, 2013, 14:53 (2690 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- Voice chat in Destiny will be restricted exclusively to your Fireteam. Not just be default, but it sounded like this was a hard rule. If you want to talk to someone else you would need to use your platform's built in voice chat system, the 360 and PS4 were mentioned specifically.

I'm actually pretty happy about this. It's easy to get around if you have more than 3 people, and it doesn't force me to turn off VOIP to avoid super annoying people.

Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video

by Kalamari @, Waiting for Ghorn, FB, and BH, Monday, December 09, 2013, 17:19 (2690 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- It was said that max Fireteam size will be six players with different game types having different sizes and the matchmaking system filling in extra players as needed like in Halo. Interestingly, if I heard right, you still don't get voice chat with those extra people. You still only communicate with your hand picked fireteam.

Okay, I think the recent trend of automatically restricting chat between players in multiplayer games is disappointing. Sure, other players can be assholes some of the time, but other times they can be pretty funny and/or cool people. I would prefer to have the option to mute other players rather than a system that auto mutes them. Let me make the choice!

It's a multiplayer game, we are supposed to interact with other players, are we not?

I don't buy the "open chat jerkfaces ruin the experience" argument. In a team game, losing is far more frustrating and rage-inducing than some jerk that trash talks.

Agreed. Don't neuter conversations

by Avateur @, Monday, December 09, 2013, 17:31 (2690 days ago) @ Kalamari

This is a shared world shooter. Let me share it and coordinate with other factions or whatnot. And if I don't want to or don't like what they're saying, well, Bungie came up with this awesome streamlined way to go about muting people in some long ago forgotten series called Halo. Pretty sure mute's still a thing if I elect to use it.

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Agreed. Don't neuter conversations

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 05:44 (2690 days ago) @ Avateur

I always found it to be too much of a hassle and just changed my settings to mute all players because I almost never found anyone worth chatting with and just had to mute most players.

Agreed. Don't neuter conversations

by petetheduck, Wednesday, December 11, 2013, 10:56 (2689 days ago) @ Avateur

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Agreed. Don't neuter conversations

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Wednesday, December 11, 2013, 12:07 (2689 days ago) @ petetheduck

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Taming the monster they helped create

by RC ⌂, UK, Monday, December 09, 2013, 18:12 (2690 days ago) @ Kalamari

- It was said that max Fireteam size will be six players with different game types having different sizes and the matchmaking system filling in extra players as needed like in Halo. Interestingly, if I heard right, you still don't get voice chat with those extra people. You still only communicate with your hand picked fireteam.


Okay, I think the recent trend of automatically restricting chat between players in multiplayer games is disappointing. Sure, other players can be assholes some of the time, but other times they can be pretty funny and/or cool people. I would prefer to have the option to mute other players rather than a system that auto mutes them. Let me make the choice!

In most games, hearing other people is opt-out. Even if you don't have a headset, their audio is played through the speakers by default once you enter MP. If the multiplayer portion of Destiny is literally all of it then the problem of jerks now applies to all your players rather than just those who opt into the multiplayer. Making chat opt-in universally then makes sense.

Hearing strangers talk to other strangers like you're sitting next to them, or even directly at you, just because matchmaking decided you should play together, can be pretty invasive and intimidating to be honest.

Frankly I'm glad Bungie seem to be designing for the reality that exists rather than than some idealised world.

Don't forget Bungie's implementation of push-to-talk in Halo 3? They already realised that not everything out of a player's mouth needs to be heard by everyone else. ("Sure mom, just after this game!.... I can't right now I'm playing with other people!... but MOM!!!")

If you must hear everyone in your MP game then invite them to party chat like Lars said. Bet you that most players won't bother - because in reality, the expected return from the average player isn't worth the small extra effort and the risk of having a jerk.

It's a multiplayer game, we are supposed to interact with other players, are we not?

Yes, and some of the best multiplayer matches I've ever played have been without voice chat, using body language and character actions alone. Experiences of spontaneous cooperation and rivalry so perfect and pure I doubt that voice chat would have benefited them in any way, shape or form.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Ragashingo ⌂ @, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, December 09, 2013, 18:29 (2690 days ago) @ RC

Also, for all we know ADDING people to a fireteam is much easier now. Being able to point at someone and press a button to send a Join My Fireteam request would be pretty cool.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Monday, December 09, 2013, 19:00 (2690 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Also, for all we know ADDING people to a fireteam is much easier now. Being able to point at someone and press a button to send a Join My Fireteam request would be pretty cool.

Actually now that you mention it, that is what the Titan does in the E3 gameplay video. What if pointing really is how you request to join up?

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I guess it was more of a salute than a point in the E3 Demo

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Monday, December 09, 2013, 19:40 (2690 days ago) @ Xenos

But my time wasn't wasted, I did notice a few things I didn't notice until this viewing, amazing what fresh eyes can do.

* Double sight on the Fallen Captain’s sniper at the beginning for his double set of eyes
* Subtle 3D/Parallax effect on the assault rifle’s sight
* I didn’t remember the “Public Event” banner has a Vanguard logo next to it

I guess it was more of a salute than a point in the E3 Demo

by Veegie, Monday, December 09, 2013, 19:57 (2690 days ago) @ Xenos

* Subtle 3D/Parallax effect on the assault rifle’s sight

This guy knows what's up.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Monday, December 09, 2013, 20:03 (2690 days ago) @ RC

I'd like to wait until we see what the non-verbal communication options are before I pass judgment. I have made a few friends on XBL, but very few.

Just finished Journey, BTW, and it was really cool to hang out with players without talking.

That's a completely magical, mystical world, though, so I wonder how the lack of chat will be explained in Destiny's fiction.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 14:23 (2689 days ago) @ Kermit

I'd like to wait until we see what the non-verbal communication options are before I pass judgment. I have made a few friends on XBL, but very few.

Just finished Journey, BTW, and it was really cool to hang out with players without talking.

That's a completely magical, mystical world, though, so I wonder how the lack of chat will be explained in Destiny's fiction.

Battlefield Bad Company 2 and Battlefield 3 had excellent non-verbal systems. Spot enemies, call out needs for health ammo, call out providing health and ammo, where to attack/defend.

It wasn't only good communication, but it naturally encouraged folks to work together and play the game.

I've also had one of the weirdest nights of gaming ever in Bad Company 2 (I want to say Husker was there?). One night, there was a full team on defense and one dude on offense. A spontaneous cease-fire broke out and we spent the rest of the time destroying every piece of destroyable environment. This was a map full of trees, so, you can guess how long that took. The result was a desolate, snowy wasteland peppered with explosions and dudes running.

As far as a I know, not a word uttered between any of the participants.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 14:47 (2689 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

Battlefield is a great example. I've found if you have someone that is good at vocal communication they are also good at the non-vocal communication. The other way is not always true.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 16:56 (2689 days ago) @ Kermit

I'd like to wait until we see what the non-verbal communication options are before I pass judgment. I have made a few friends on XBL, but very few.

Nobody ever uses those seriously. It's simpler and easier to just say what you want into a mic.

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Not always

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 17:20 (2689 days ago) @ Cody Miller

When a single person in the team is unaware of some place's call-out, a mark over whatever it is you're intending to convey is a lot simpler, faster and more accurate way of telling him what you want.

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Not always

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 21:02 (2689 days ago) @ ZackDark

When a single person in the team is unaware of some place's call-out, a mark over whatever it is you're intending to convey is a lot simpler, faster and more accurate way of telling him what you want.

You are correct. Portal's 'ping' feature is indeed useful. I was thinking of gestures or stock voice clips.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 18:30 (2689 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I'd like to wait until we see what the non-verbal communication options are before I pass judgment. I have made a few friends on XBL, but very few.


Nobody ever uses those seriously. It's simpler and easier to just say what you want into a mic.

Portal 2 and all Battlefield games since Bad Company 2 they are used extensively.

Taming the monster they helped create

by electricpirate @, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 18:45 (2689 days ago) @ Xenos

Also, league of legends uses the ping system extensively.

I think the point is, these systems convey a different kind of information than verbal systems, and the complement more than replace. Non verbal systems are great for pointing out specific points, and grabbing attention, and asking for help. They are pretty lousy at high level strategy communications though.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 18:51 (2689 days ago) @ electricpirate

Also, league of legends uses the ping system extensively.

I think the point is, these systems convey a different kind of information than verbal systems, and the complement more than replace. Non verbal systems are great for pointing out specific points, and grabbing attention, and asking for help. They are pretty lousy at high level strategy communications though.

And I don't necessarily disagree with you guys in a traditional competitive multiplayer setting, but talking about in general, especially when playing the story, having some guy run into the area cursing or yelling for no good reason can really jar you out of the experience. And since it is supposed to be a cohesive world even between cooperative and competitive I understand and agree with their decision to make it opt in instead of opt out.

Somewhat off topic, I am more curious how easy it'll be to get a group of friends playing a competitive match together. Is it going to be easy to gather X number of friends and play a friends vs. friends match? From the past games I expect it to be, but Destiny is such a different beast than Halo that I'm not sure what they're planning.

Taming the monster they helped create

by Kalamari @, Waiting for Ghorn, FB, and BH, Monday, December 09, 2013, 22:11 (2690 days ago) @ RC

In a multiplayer team game, where cooperation and strategy play a large part, team chat should at least be the default option. It's a benefit to your team when everyone is communicating, in my experience verbal communication is far more effective than non-verbal for most occasions.

I can see why Bungie would limit voice chat to fireteam-only while out adventuring in the world, because your fireteam is just doing it's own thing. But I don't see the point of it for competitive multiplayer. Not even for story-related technology reasons.

I wonder what affect this will have on competitive multiplayer, if new players going solo don't hear other players communicating, they may believe that voice chat is not recommended/possible since it isn't automatic.

This design move will severely hinder voice communication during competitive multiplayer solely because of the difficulty of getting randoms to accept party chat requests. Not only is entering/exiting party chat a hassle, but it's fairly unreliable as well, creating an even greater impediment to communication. It would be far more efficient to give players a variety of options for game chat muting.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 00:49 (2690 days ago) @ Kalamari

In a multiplayer team game, where cooperation and strategy play a large part, team chat should at least be the default option. It's a benefit to your team when everyone is communicating, in my experience verbal communication is far more effective than non-verbal for most occasions.

I can see why Bungie would limit voice chat to fireteam-only while out adventuring in the world, because your fireteam is just doing it's own thing. But I don't see the point of it for competitive multiplayer. Not even for story-related technology reasons.

I wonder what affect this will have on competitive multiplayer, if new players going solo don't hear other players communicating, they may believe that voice chat is not recommended/possible since it isn't automatic.

This design move will severely hinder voice communication during competitive multiplayer solely because of the difficulty of getting randoms to accept party chat requests. Not only is entering/exiting party chat a hassle, but it's fairly unreliable as well, creating an even greater impediment to communication. It would be far more efficient to give players a variety of options for game chat muting.

Since I haven't gathered numbers, I'll soften my reporting a bit. I feel like 90% of the time a random starts talking during a match online, they either don't say anything useful, or they start spouting super racist bigotted nonsense. Actually the likelihood that they'll spout racist bigotted nonsense does sometimes correlate with their ability to make good callouts.

A majority of the positive voice chat experiences I have online are with people I already know.

I'm only sad that I won't have the opportunity to report these idiots.

Otherwise, I'm super excited.

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Co-op vs. competitive multiplayer?

by SonofMacPhisto @, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 16:03 (2689 days ago) @ kidtsunami

I've rarely, if ever, ran into talking idiots in ME3, BL2, or Iron Brigade. Halo and CoD on the other hand? Holeeeeeeeee crap.

Granted, not the best sample ever, but, is there something to it?

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I call for wider sample universe and adrenaline

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 16:44 (2689 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

Also, more people in a single game maybe contributes to more primal instincts.

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Co-op vs. competitive multiplayer?

by stabbim @, Des Moines, IA, USA, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 17:09 (2689 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

Oh there's definitely some substance to this theory. Direct competition between the players must bring out the... whatever-it-is in preteens and dudebros that fuels screaming and racist rants. Or, possibly those people just don't play co-op games in the first place. Either way, I've figured out which sort of game I'd rather be playing.

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Co-op vs. competitive multiplayer?

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Thursday, December 12, 2013, 13:36 (2688 days ago) @ stabbim

Oh there's definitely some substance to this theory. Direct competition between the players must bring out the... whatever-it-is in preteens and dudebros that fuels screaming and racist rants. Or, possibly those people just don't play co-op games in the first place. Either way, I've figured out which sort of game I'd rather be playing.

Yup. I also credit the divide between gamers with actual taste versus the more casual types that will largely surf the games zeitgeist. Iron Brigade (and arguably Mass Effect 3) are a little off the beaten path. I think there's a direct correlation there with respect to how mainstream a game is versus quality of ingame communication among the player base.

~m

Taming the monster they helped create

by Kalamari @, Waiting for Ghorn, FB, and BH, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 17:08 (2689 days ago) @ kidtsunami

I think this feeling is largely what influenced Bungie's choice for voice chat system.

However, I have met enough decent and well-intentioned randoms to know that it's unfair to cast them all as hate spewing cro-magnon men, good randoms are out there. Even though the majority of randoms are exactly like you described, I feel Destiny's voice chat system for competitive multiplayer creates an unnecessary obstacle to meeting the good people online.

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Taming the monster they helped create

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, December 12, 2013, 13:55 (2688 days ago) @ Kalamari

I've met decent randoms. I kinda miss the old days when people had their mikes on. I made a few friends just by being polite and complimentary.

On the other hand, it was a choice to enter a competitive game. Given how Destiny strongly encourages you to play with strangers (through means that we don't fully understand yet), I think I get the decision to leave voice chat off by default.

I've been thinking about what my first playthrough will be like, and I'm thinking I'm going to keep an open mind, and perhaps join other players, even though that isn't how I've traditionally liked to play Bungie games the first time. At that point I really care about immersion. I suspect Bungie is trying to balance two things, the immersion and the spontaneity of co-op, without the dubstep, abusive language, and whatever else you might get with live mikes.

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Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video

by kidtsunami @, Atlanta, GA, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 04:29 (2690 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- Other things mentioned: possibility of weapon power scaling to make competitive multiplayer fair, in game (storyline based?) events that will strongly encourage players to look beyond multiplayer, and that Destiny will have a faster competitive multiplayer time to kill than Halo did (booo!)

I get that it's really satisfying to have quick combat resolution. I just have always appreciated the long form battles that Halo encouraged. You could reasonably get around the map knowing that they could just ping you, giving you the opportunity to catch your breath between points.

It allowed for great teamwork where you call out that you pinged someone twice as they were running towards a mate across the map and they'd know to get the jump on them. It also forced you to have an "opening move" whether that was a bounced grenade, or some pot shots as you closed the distance.

I'm encouraged that he said that good players can still get away sometimes. Remains to be seen how fast they made it.

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Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Thursday, December 12, 2013, 13:43 (2688 days ago) @ kidtsunami

- Other things mentioned: possibility of weapon power scaling to make competitive multiplayer fair, in game (storyline based?) events that will strongly encourage players to look beyond multiplayer, and that Destiny will have a faster competitive multiplayer time to kill than Halo did (booo!)


I get that it's really satisfying to have quick combat resolution. I just have always appreciated the long form battles that Halo encouraged. You could reasonably get around the map knowing that they could just ping you, giving you the opportunity to catch your breath between points.

It allowed for great teamwork where you call out that you pinged someone twice as they were running towards a mate across the map and they'd know to get the jump on them. It also forced you to have an "opening move" whether that was a bounced grenade, or some pot shots as you closed the distance.

I'm encouraged that he said that good players can still get away sometimes. Remains to be seen how fast they made it.

Yes. This concerned me. I'm always in favor of a good scrap versus a blitzkrieg win. I'm hoping he's indicating that a combination of weapon/grenade/ability is what will allow for these quick wins, and not triple-tap kills ala H:CE. The sprinting and sliding already seem to give off quite a bit of the CoD flavor. When he said the combat is significantly quicker than Halo, my heart fell a little.

~m

Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video

by GrimBrother IV, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 17:13 (2689 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Everything he said jazzed me out of my mind. Sounding more every day like the Absolute games changer that we all knew it would be.

I'm really not sure how i felt about that

by electricpirate @, Tuesday, December 10, 2013, 21:20 (2689 days ago) @ Ragashingo

There were many things in there I didn't like... For example the talk of lethality sounded like COD level, so maybe that's where they are going to keep things balanced? I don't love COD style move-stop, and positional based combat, so that's disheartening. The bits about the importance of vertical movement are encouraging though. Hopefully that, plus the focus on single/burst shot weapons can keep the combat from getting into the move, ADS, camp, cycle that makes COD so boring to me.

How SPACEMAGIC and such fits in, I'm not sure yet.

Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video

by Steve, Wednesday, December 11, 2013, 09:13 (2689 days ago) @ Ragashingo

will be nice to play an FPS that isn't eSPORTZ MLG 42069 XXX. from the way he said, it sounds like you will need to progress in PVE before you can do PVP (i.e. reach level 10, or whatever). which is nice. sucks for the people that are expecting a spiritual successor to halo, tho.

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Gameinformer Lars Bakken Multiplayer Video

by JDQuackers ⌂ @, McMurray, PA, Wednesday, December 11, 2013, 09:21 (2689 days ago) @ Steve

sucks for the people that are expecting a spiritual successor to halo, tho.

Why? They can just go play Halo 4

MunkyOoooooooooo

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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.jpeg

by MrPadraig08 ⌂ @, Steel City, Thursday, December 12, 2013, 11:41 (2688 days ago) @ JDQuackers

you crafty bastardo, this post is wonderful.


I think the people expecting it to be halo will get mad when they find out it's not halo. I can't wait until people start sending 343 letters on how disappointed they are Master Chief wasn't in Destiny at all. Worst Halo game ever.

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