Prediction on Destiny

The game will be a technical success. It'll be well polished, almost bug free, check all the social boxes, and it will even sell pretty well.

But it will be generic, boring and unspectacular to the average gamer. Thoroughly 'meh'.

Technical success, but critical flop.
A well made game, but not a good game.

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Oh, I see. I'll play along.

I predict that the Fallen are clumsy and frail. In fact, they often proclaim they are Fallen and they can't get up.

The Tower has only one main elevator that can only fit 2 Guardians at a time. But don't worry, your team mate can catch up with you. That's all seamlessly handled behind the scenes so you don't have to worry about leaving them behind. (They take the dumb waiter up.)

Your cloak also doubles as a picnic blanket for intimate times on faraway locales with that special Guardian. Hunters call them "Shaggin' sheets." Not sure what that means.

The collectors edition includes a t-shirt that says, "Titans gonna fist ya!"

You will buy Mayflower and love it.

-Hedge.

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Xbox 360 version runs at 1152x720 (it will almost certainly be lower than 1280x720), PS3 version runs at 1024x720, PS4 version runs 1920x1080. No version of Destiny will use MSAA. Expect post-process AA to be liberally applied, and don't be shocked if Bungie takes another stab at temporal AA.

4Bone versions will feature more shadow-casting light sources than PS360 versions.

All versions target 30fps. 360 and PS3 versions both suffer from some spikes. PS3 version will either suffer from bigger spikes than 360 version, or tend toward lower-quality transparency blending.

The XB1 version will be downgraded relative to the PS4 version in some respect that creates a large thread on NeoGAF.

//===================

I predict that at least one of my predictions will be correct. I also predict that, if all of the predictions in the first section of my post wind up wrong, the first prediction in the second section of my post will appear confusing. Finally, I predict that someone will think more than they ought to about the second section of my post.

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seems reasonable given the recent trailer. It just didn't look very fun to me, but there might be important context i'm missing. like if you were watching halo 1 single player, some parts might look kind of boring outside the context of a mission. like the battle at the rockslide. drive around rocks, run over jackals, repeat. but in the context of the mission, it's really fun.

I do have doubts though.

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I won't be reading any more of your posts.

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But it will be generic, boring and unspectacular to the average gamer. Thoroughly 'meh'.

Technical success, but critical flop.
A well made game, but not a good game.

I certainly think you're wrong, Bungie has so much pedigree, talent and a commitment to making great games.

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My own palm read:

Some people will love Destiny.

Some people will like it.

Some people won't.

And some will have their minds made up about it before they even play it.

(See, the key to fortune telling is, you have to keep it vague so that the reader can impress their own interpretations upon it.)

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Ultimate bold post is ultimate bold post.

Granted, I'm sort of left neutral on all of the info released today because I don't feel like I gained much from it. Didn't boost or lower excitement. I'm still excited for this game (lol, the only problem I have with any of it is the pre-order Sparrow). Yeah, the info released was pretty underwhelming, but E3 should help out lots. At least I hope it would with the Beta and launch right after it.

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lol, the only problem I have with any of it is the pre-order Sparrow).

Did no one get the memo on the vehicle name change? It's not the sparrow anymore, right?

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Did no one get the memo on the vehicle name change? It's not the sparrow anymore, right?

Well, then Gamestop has been calling it the Sparrow, so now we're all confused.

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Arrow's in there. Gone like a shot.

Shrike rhymes with hike. Doesn't bode well.

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Sparrow master race.

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I like turtles

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From NeoGaf:

kittens Also, it sounds like Sparrows are called Sparrows again, and not Shrikes? I'm cool with that.

urk One of the Sparrows is called the Shrike, but all Sparrows are Sparrows and that was totally the plan all along.

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Wut???????

I am confuzzed and kinda pleased.

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Wut???????

I am confuzzed and kinda pleased.

Oh sorry, I think I confused you by leaving out by accident something important from urk's reply, here let me try again:

kittens Also, it sounds like Sparrows are called Sparrows again, and not Shrikes? I'm cool with that.

urk One of the Sparrows is called the Shrike, but all Sparrows are Sparrows and that was totally the plan all along. ;)

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I hope they reveal more into story at this year's E3.

The game looks enjoyable to me, and it'll be successful. My question: Are these aliens just random aliens, or do they all have a deeper story?

With Bungie, I expect a deep story. I loved Halo's Covenant because they had life to them -- I could believe them. I want to know more about these creatures -- why should I care about them, or even be disgusted with them, aside from them just wanting to kill me? Are they smart? Are they interesting?

Maybe I won't like them, if they're "mythical" and anything goes. In this mythic sci-fi world. How can I believe something that was made to be unbelievable?

If all these answers already exist, I'll admit I haven't followed this game very much. I'm interested, but I'm not sold on the entire universe just yet. That'll take time and hands-on gameplay.

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A well made game, but not a good game.

At the risk of being ridiculed and and vilified: the above is what I fear. Hold on now - haters gonna hate and all that, but I can't shake it. Here's a list of what's bothering me:

Reach lost me and my friends, very quickly, very abruptly
Bungie's partnership with Activision (potential meddling)
A pretty bland initial reveal - how is Destiny different?
Departure of some core Bungie personnel
Delay in schedule
Courting of PS owners at expense of XBox owners (admittedly irrational)
Departure of very core Bungie personnel
A new reveal that had almost no impact on me

The Beta will serve as an instantaneous market correction, and all of the above will be rendered irrelevant. I wait, however uneasily.

I respect this forum and its users greatly, and I hesitate to express my sentiments here. But...I can't shake it. A prediction is silly; an expressed sense of unease seems reasonable.

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I respect this forum and its users greatly, and I hesitate to express my sentiments here. But...I can't shake it. A prediction is silly; an expressed sense of unease seems reasonable.

Well said, and I think many of those concerns you listed are universal with Bungie fans and not easily dismissed.

I've loved the art direction and music so far. I have no doubt that the gameplay will be great. It's just sitting down and immersing myself into the actual game with my own controller that will tell me if the game is a quality AAA adventure or an actual universe that I can get lost in for years. :)

This latest trailer is just another steady reveal for me, expressing what your average gameplay will be like. It's no Halo 2 demo, which might be a good thing, because that baby cast a long shadow that Bungie was still working to somewhat hearken back to 5 years and 3 games later.

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This latest trailer is just another steady reveal for me, expressing what your average gameplay will be like. It's no Halo 2 demo, which might be a good thing, because that baby cast a long shadow that Bungie was still working to somewhat hearken back to 5 years and 3 games later.

True.

Yet at the same time... the Halo 2 announcement and real time demo were both awesome. Probably the most awesome video game promotions ever. Everything about them was just about perfect.

"...and let more of them slip the kill zone? That's insanity! There's nothing more I can do!"
"Admiral, tell your men to hold their positions. Reinforcements are on the spoke."
"The entire fleet is engaged Cortana. With respect, what the hell sort of reinforcements have you got?"

- That I was going to be the one supersoldier that counted as a better reinforcement than the entire UNSC fleet was amazing. And of course the E3 Demo

"Bingo there's the cruiser. Now, all we need to dooooo.... is..."
"Betcha can't stick it."
"You're on!"

- I wanted to stick it. In that scene. On that bridge. In that hopeless situation.

Darn, Levi! You have me wanting the real (mythical) Halo 2 all over again! :p

But more on point, as much as I am satisfied by the looks of Destiny's gameplay, I too think it needs at least one of those super awesome moments. The Fallen ship jumping into the atmosphere back at E3 was close. The Law of the Jungle trailer was close. But I want one of those Halo-2-level-of-awesome moments.

Perhaps E3? Perhaps when Bungie gets back around to showing off Destiny's story again?

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Perhaps E3? Perhaps when Bungie gets back around to showing off Destiny's story again?

Yeah, I'd bet you money that this is just a little prologue to the big E3 showdown, heh.

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And yet, in spite of all that great marketing, Halo 2's ending. ;)

Back to yakaman, you posted specific reasons for your pessimism. Good on yah. Gut feelings and vague assumptions aren't helpful, whether positive, negative, or neutral.

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Perhaps E3? Perhaps when Bungie gets back around to showing off Destiny's story again?

Yeah, a large part of me hopes they do show off something major like that, but a small part of me doesn't expect it. I may sound like a broken record sometimes but with the Halo 1 marketing we never really saw a moment like that before the game was released, and since this is a new IP I wouldn't put it past them if they leave it out of the marketing. I hope that's not true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

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I got to thinking about that after I posted...

Cody was saying earlier how Destiny appears to be just the same as other game. It just has good parts copied from other games. That sort of thing.

Well what do we think Halo was?!

In terms of combat it was slow and somewhat limited.
In terms of world it was a bunch of high canyons and repeating interiors.
In terms of story it was aliens vs. generic Aliens style space marines with a bit of space zombies thrown in.
In terms of graphics it was impressive, but nothing graphical stays impressive for long.
About the only thing Halo really had going for it was vehicles that worked right!

And yet it turned out to be one of the best games of all time! Without flashy or even good marketing before hand.

Why?

Because even though the parts of Halo had been seen before, Bungie did each of them very well and brought them together in a way that formed something much greater than the sum of its parts. Just like they did with Oni. And Myth. And Marathon.

Destiny looks like it's got the solid parts thing down pretty well. Even most of the fear around here is that it looks good but there is nothing that seems to stand out. Is it possible it turns out just ok? I guess so. But I like to think that Bungie's track record and knowledge of how to make great games pushes it far beyond just ok.

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Because even though the parts of Halo had been seen before, Bungie did each of them very well and brought them together in a way that formed something much greater than the sum of its parts. Just like they did with Oni. And Myth. And Marathon.

I've made this same point, too. Bungie games have always worn their inspirations on their sleeves pretty much. That's not a knock.

Good post.

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It's just all protons, electrons, and neutrons. So lame. I wish someone would come up with something original.

(Snark aside, maybe nature is on to something here.)

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In terms of story it was aliens vs. generic Aliens style space marines with a bit of space zombies thrown in.

What will the "twist" in Destiny be?

Space pirates?
Space vampires?
Spaceballs?

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If you're livin in a bubble and you haven't got a care
Well, you're gonna be in trouble, cause we're gonna steal your air
Cause what you got is what we need and all we do is dirty deeds
We're the Spaceballs, Watch Out! cause we're the Spaceballs
We're the master of space
Hey, Don't mess around with the spaceballs

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That this guy:

[image]

Is Tuvok from Star Trek Voyager:

[image]

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Perhaps E3? Perhaps when Bungie gets back around to showing off Destiny's story again?

Yeah, a large part of me hopes they do show off something major like that, but a small part of me doesn't expect it. I may sound like a broken record sometimes but with the Halo 1 marketing we never really saw a moment like that before the game was released, and since this is a new IP I wouldn't put it past them if they leave it out of the marketing. I hope that's not true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Halo:CE had the Macworld trailer which knocked peoples socks off. It probably wasn't seen by a majority of the people who ended up buying the game, but it definitely put Bungie on the map in a way that hadn't been before. It's funny to remember what a small publisher Bungie was back in the day (compared to say, ID) serving mostly the Mac audience.

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Yeah, I watched it again recently. The thing I found most amusing was Jason Jones apologizing for the amazing demo and saying Halo would be much better next year. :)

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Halo:CE had the Macworld trailer which knocked peoples socks off. It probably wasn't seen by a majority of the people who ended up buying the game, but it definitely put Bungie on the map in a way that hadn't been before. It's funny to remember what a small publisher Bungie was back in the day (compared to say, ID) serving mostly the Mac audience.

I was referencing a big story reveal moment which a lot of people are clamoring for.

As far as a moment similar to that, the big thing that was revealed at Macworld for me was the co-op and the warthog. I got a similar feeling at E3 last year when they show the public event. I've never experienced something like that in an FPS, and I am very excited to when Destiny comes out.

The funny thing is the Macworld demo wasn't even really a gameplay demo. We never see a player view of gamplay during the demo. Something I always forget until I rewatch it.

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Yet at the same time... the Halo 2 announcement and real time demo were both awesome. Probably the most awesome video game promotions ever. Everything about them was just about perfect.

"...and let more of them slip the kill zone? That's insanity! There's nothing more I can do!"
"Admiral, tell your men to hold their positions. Reinforcements are on the spoke."
"The entire fleet is engaged Cortana. With respect, what the hell sort of reinforcements have you got?"

Yep, I just got goosebumps reading that. That announcement is still so vivid.

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Yet at the same time... the Halo 2 announcement and real time demo were both awesome. Probably the most awesome video game promotions ever. Everything about them was just about perfect.

"...and let more of them slip the kill zone? That's insanity! There's nothing more I can do!"
"Admiral, tell your men to hold their positions. Reinforcements are on the spoke."
"The entire fleet is engaged Cortana. With respect, what the hell sort of reinforcements have you got?"

Yep, I just got goosebumps reading that. That announcement is still so vivid.

Much depended on knowing the situation and the characters, though. They have to take a different approach this time, and it's tough. A Macworld type of trailer just showing off cool stuff doesn't have the same impact as it did in 1999. We've seen a lot of amazing sights since then, and not all of it has translated into good games.

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At the risk of being ridiculed and and vilified: the above is what I fear. Hold on now - haters gonna hate and all that, but I can't shake it. Here's a list of what's bothering me:

Reach lost me and my friends, very quickly, very abruptly

Bungie's partnership with Activision (potential meddling)

A pretty bland initial reveal - how is Destiny different?

Departure of some core Bungie personnel

Delay in schedule

Courting of PS owners at expense of XBox owners (admittedly irrational)

Departure of very core Bungie personnel

A new reveal that had almost no impact on me
The Beta will serve as an instantaneous market correction, and all of the above will be rendered irrelevant. I wait, however uneasily.

I respect this forum and its users greatly, and I hesitate to express my sentiments here. But...I can't shake it. A prediction is silly; an expressed sense of unease seems reasonable.

Here's my own thoughts:
Gunplay wasn't spectacular, it actually feels like a step back from the well defined character of Halo's weapons. I really don't think we'll be seeing something like the quirks of the Plasma Rifle or Needler. Not just in style, but in actual weapon mechanics and interplay with character mechanics (Plasma pistol overcharge vs shields for example).

The art direction is uninspired. The game is almost a Mass Effect look-alike. Everything is desaturated, there's this awful chromatic aberration effect on stuff, high reflection surfaces seem to have massive bloom, probably the most egregious art issue of all is that there's so little contrast. When I'm watching a firefight everything looks muddled together, the enemies and environment don't really stand out. The character designs really... don't do anything for me. They're like Spartans-but-not-actually-spartans and bland looking on top of it. The 'robes and cloth' aesthetic could've been awesome, but there's almost nothing done following through on that concept at all.

The music, I just want to briefly touch on: It didn't fit. It was alright, but it just did not fit that video.

The interaction between the players and the AI was downright atrocious. This was what I really didn't like. The AI doesn't seem to have any sort of self-preservation, the combat situations are hand to hand brawls - there's hardly any situation where flanking and maneuver - where thinking - came into play. The players just rush straight into the combat situation, become utterly surrounded, and then use a combination of superpower AoE attacks and some guns or melee to kill everything anyways. As a result, none of the aliens looked or felt dangerous or even a worthy opponent at all, just bullet sponges or easily dispatched grunts - and the one time a player died, he was pretty much instantly revived. It made the game just look... really boring, really easy. Like I could run through the entire area in my sleep, or designed so that I'm meant to run through the entire area in my sleep multiple times for the purposes of grinding (I hope that's not going to be the case).

And then finally, the level design itself. Just a repeat of the corridor shooter aesthetic that Bungie started to get a bad habit with in Halo 2, and just couldn't seem to break out of by Halo Reach. Although there are some open spaces, it doesn't really look that open - It's a slightly wider corridor after a series of corridors. I realize this is a strike mission and intended to be fairly linear - but it really just affirmed that the talk of big explorable environments was just PR-speak. Nothing at all that we've seen yet, has said "big open environment". When I hear those words, I expect something similar to an elderscrolls game. Hell, even ODST. The idea is that the open space provides multiple paths to the objective, not a single linear one. Yet the latter is all we seem to be seeing.

On the good side, I don't really know what I can say.
The graphical quality is good. Not superb or jaw dropping in any way, it's just... about average of what I'd expect from a game on the PS4/Xbone today.

The Lighting was pretty nice in the original reveal, although the latest trailer didn't showcase it as much.

Weapon designs improved from the original trailer to the latest trailer. (Although by the same token, I think the spacecraft designs took a step back)

The fireteams and mutliplayer aspect might be cool.

I mean really, nothing about this game stands out to me at all. I'm struggling to see what Destiny is really bringing around that makes it great. Halo was primarily art design, weapon distinctiveness, storyline, music and engaging combat mechanics. Destiny is lacking by comparison in every category so far.

I want to be hyped up for this game, but there's really nothing that is getting me excited.

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No disrespect but this is pretty ridiculous. I am not trying to step on anyone's toes but any prediction at this point is based on knowing 10% of what the game will be about and be like.

In any case, being a 360, PS3, PS4, and One game, it will sell millions and millions of copies. That isn't a sign it will be a good game, but any prediction made at this point is pure drama. All show; no substance.

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FOR NOW.

I'm hoping you are wrong and am having FAITH IN BUNGIE to DELIVER like they did for me in Halo.

If Destiny doesn't 'do it' for me then I'm too damn old and need to quit playing video games… lol

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I'm pretty sure you're just stating facts at this point. :(

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I'm pretty sure you're just stating facts at this point. :(

How are they facts if he's talking about a game that hasn't been released yet?

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Even after the game is released, this stuff would still just be opinion and never fact. I was just saying that I think his prediction so spot on, it's basically equivalent to fact. And then I added the frowny face because that makes me sad.

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Even after the game is released, this stuff would still just be opinion and never fact.

What? If it gets a 97 on metacritic, will it be a critical flop?

I was just saying that I think his prediction so spot on, it's basically equivalent to fact. And then I added the frowny face because that makes me sad.

What kind of time traveler are you? Predictions predict the future. They can't be "spot on" until the future is the past.

I don't mean to be harsh but these sentences you wrote--I just can't make sense of them. Stuff can't be facts, but they are equivalent to facts.

Gibberish.

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What? If it gets a 97 on metacritic, will it be a critical flop?

Well, there are different types of reviews. Nearly all initial reviews of games like this (is 'AAA' the word for it?) are "hey guys, I played the game for a few hours without any technically difficulties and it was somewhat enjoyable = 9/10". I believe these inflated ratings go along Recon's comment about it probably selling a lot of copies.

But then, many months after the game has come out and hype has died down, the real reviews start to appear (usually more in the form of user reviews). That's where "critical flop" comes in -- when the true critiques can be made, not the "OMG NEW GAME" reviews.

What kind of time traveler are you? Predictions predict the future. They can't be "spot on" until the future is the past.

I don't mean to be harsh but these sentences you wrote--I just can't make sense of them. Stuff can't be facts, but they are equivalent to facts.

Gibberish.

You are being waaaay too literal. As you point out, it is quite impossible for any of this to be fact, which is precisely why I thought people would pick up on the hyperbole.

How about this: I vehemently agree with Recon's predictions. But that doesn't quite get my conviction across as well as my original post, IMO.

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I've been reading some of the reviews and aggregations of what's been said.

The PR-speak is off the charts, from one of the news stories today:

"Step into the world Bungie has been carefully crafting for so long"
"Aptly titled, Strikes are attacks on key locations that the enemy holds. The aim is to attack full-force, reducing any enemies you encounter along the way to either shriveling cowards; or dead meat."
“A shooter is only as good as its sniper rifle. In Halo, the UNSC Sniper Rifle System 99 thunders with each pull of the trigger…In Destiny, the sniper rifle – whatever its level, whatever its rarity, whatever its name – also thunders.”
"everyone loved the gunplay. It spoke to them, and allowed them to effectively dispatch their foes while riding on that successful gamer high."
"It felt like they had actual lightning at their fingertips (which is actually a Focus-related Super), able to dash their foes away in mere moments with a superbly flashy yet explosive Nova Bomb."

These aren't honest reviews, they're canned PR responses. It's like how a burger ad describes burgers as juicy and succulent with a zesty flavour. Normal folks just say 'tastes fuckin' great, man'.

Contrast with what I see from the non PR sources; messageboards, IRC channels and forums:

"Im very on the fence, it sounded great with the adds they had going but the game play just looks so bland."
"The preview they just released made it look like a Borderlands clone with dull looking gunplay and it isn't on pc"
"It's literally halo combat with borderlands coop. It's not even openworld AND they're too lazy to make a pc port. Fuck bungie."
"I watched the newly released 7 minute gameplay trailer and I didn't see what makes this at all different from any of the other 4 player FPS coop games on the market. So far not very interested in this game."
"The music in the latest trailer was complete shit."
"But it [not being on PC] literally is the only reason I'm not going to buy Destiny. FPS on consoles feels so awful"
"Yeah, it's [the music] all orchestrated and high quality, but this just sounds entirely forgettable. It's also just sounds kind of all over the place. I have no idea what kind of feeling this song is supposed to convey because the tone shifts so much."
"It's a game I was excited about truthfully and honestly. But hearing that it isn't coming to PC literally killed every ounce of interest I had in it." [The PC thing gets repeated a lot]
"The RPG elements kill it for me, I don't want to be running around firing at fucking sponges for the entirety of the game and having to constantly upgrade/find a new weapon every few levels. This is what killed Borderlands for me. RPG and FPS just don't go very well together. Art style and music scream Halo, which isn't a bad thing."
"Massive Bungie and Halo fan but I hated everything about Borderlands. The latest footage actually crushed me as Destiny was the only game I was looking forward to"
"Brown and bloom borderlands with a lot of false promises. Someone's going to have to show me something pretty fucking amazing about the game to get me to change my mind."
"To me it looks like a smaller scale Borderlands with Halo gameplay copy/pasted. I'm also worried that the alleged exploration is going to be another "See that mountain? You can climb it" situation where it's been exaggerated to the point of lies"
"I'm not a Halo fan, especially after 3, but it had some things in it that stuck out. Destiny doesn't stick out at all. Should've made another fucking myth."
"I'm not looking forward to it any more."

I've yet to find anyone who actually played the game and wants to give a candid opinion, but right now there's basically: A lot of normal people who are very pessimistic about what they've seen so far, and a PR/Media that is going hog-wild with praise for the game splurting buzzwords everywhere while not actually describing anything they didn't like or gameplay in actual detail.

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I've seen a lot of positive responses to the Destiny gameplay video, and not just here on DBO. I think a lot of this is the rule of the Internet: the negative tends to rises to the top. And if you want what sounds like a candid response to what they played I would recommend the Eurogamer article (link). It's so obvious they had a blast that it literally seeps from their writing, that doesn't come out when it's PR text.

Now, not everyone has to enjoy the video, and not everyone is going to enjoy Destiny, but it's good to get some balance.

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I saw a tweet from someone who played Destiny and he said, "Believe the hype."

That's enough for me.

-Hedge.

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So far, I really like what I see and I'm excited to play the game. Can this post and Hedge's be added to your list? That way, it won't look so cherry picked.

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Something tells me you're just a tad biased at this point. Every single opinion you saw on the net or among your circle of friends was negative? Really? And are you claiming your list of negative impressions is a fair representation of what people really think of this week's Destiny info dump?

As for the gaming articles, are you sure you aren't cherry picking from there either? For instance I found the Game Reactor article to be quite good as it talked about general impressions, gave a few good details, and had some great quotes and info. A small taste:

Halo muscle memory confirms that the universe and format may have changed, but for those of us who've saved the universe with Master Chief, survived with the ODST and died with Noble Team, we're still right at home. Character control still carries the studio's legacy. A sense of familiarity to this new frontier. If you've lost evenings to their past, you'll be wholly confident in your first steps into Bungie's future.

And that's not the only hallmark the company's carrying over with it. From our first thirty seconds to our last thirty minutes with the game, we experience the same sense of fun, of enjoyment, that these developers have brought to futuristic battlefields before. We're in a new world facing new threats, but that sense of excitement and evolving strategies while engaging aggressive aliens alongside friends mirrors what we felt in the near-decade of warfare alongside the UNSC. Rest easy, long-term fans of the studio: Bungie have retained the fundamentals of Halo.

Combat is fast, fun. At times, difficult. We'd put the intensity a couple of notches above Halo Normal, a little below Heroic - we die mainly because we're cocky, not crap. The tank's not even the Strike's end-boss; that comes later when we're given a sneak glimpse of a massive sphere collecting souls (the full battle will be at E3 apparently). We run through this Strike three times, and only in the last do we start using our Supers - the big differentiation between Bungie's old firefights and its new ones.

It's cool stuff. And sadly something we don't get enough time to tinker with or test, even as we rotate Classes - Hunter, Titan and Warlock - during our trio of plays through the Strike mission. Expect a lot of column inches dedicated to this in future. Bungie's showed that the traditional Halo feel is still present, but they've only teased the really interesting new combat abilities.

The game's ambitious. No doubt about that. And from the sliver of what we've seen, Bungie are able to maintain the idea of both shared world and story-driven campaign by keeping numbers down and areas fragmented. It's an idea that, on paper, works well.

So, there's a least one good impression from the gaming press that isn't told in silly PR speak. I just pulled out the bits describing gameplay, there's a ton of other good, non-pr stuff in there as well if you care to read through it.

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Something tells me you're just a tad biased at this point. Every single opinion you saw on the net or among your circle of friends was negative? Really? And are you claiming your list of negative impressions is a fair representation of what people really think of this week's Destiny info dump?

Yes, really.
Actually, this forum has so far been the exception... Kind of - But you guys haven't really talked about what stands out, so much as you are lambasting anyone criticizing what's been shown so far, and blindly praising what you've seen.

I wasn't trying to cherry pick anything, I just am not seeing anything on the 'this is looking good' side, beyond "It's awesome because it's awesome". See the earlier comment from Xeno where a single vague positive comment about the game ("Believe the hype.") was enough to convince him it'll be awesome. I'm sorry, but that's getting into fanboyism tier, and you guys are seriously setting yourselves up for disappointment by latching onto comments like that.

Look man, I've been a massive Bungie fan for the better part of a decade, for fucks sake I've got a t-shit with bungie signatures on it from the Halo 2 launch in Seattle. But I'm not going to just say the game looks fucking great just because I'm a Bungie fanboy.

To me, it looks technically competent, but uninspired and lacking some kind of weird nameless critical ingredient that Halo and many other games had, and Destiny so far, just does not. Maybe it's combat pacing, or the healthbars plastered over everything? I don't know, but it doesn't look or feel exciting, and a lot of people I've talked to are in agreement.

The Division looks interesting.
That new CoD game looks interesting.
The Witcher 3 looks interesting.
Destiny does not. What those games have going for them, Destiny is missing it. Maybe it's just a PR budget, I don't know. I can't really pin it down from what I've seen, other than to say what I've said already.

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I wasn't trying to cherry pick anything, I just am not seeing anything on the 'this is looking good' side, beyond "It's awesome because it's awesome". See the earlier comment from Xeno where a single vague positive comment about the game ("Believe the hype.") was enough to convince him it'll be awesome. I'm sorry, but that's getting into fanboyism tier, and you guys are seriously setting yourselves up for disappointment by latching onto comments like that.

That was actually Hedge that said that. But either way, you're trusting the words of people who watched a trailer of a game and said it looks "boring" or "Halo with a little bit of Borderlands" This is actually pretty common with games these days, like I said somewhere else on this forum a LOT of people said the similar things about Titanfall. The comment by Hedge was suggesting that someone that had actually played the game said to believe the hype. Ragashingo and I also pointed out two articles of people who obviously enjoyed the game a lot and said so without using PR terms. In fact I've only really read two things negative by people who actually played it, one of which was it was boring from Kotaku, and the other is from a lot of journalists saying they didn't get to see enough of Destiny. Virtually ALL of the negative is coming from people watching the trailer, which is fine for them to think, there is no problem with it, but my opinion of the game or the footage that I saw is not affected by their comments on the same thing I saw.

As for as the comment on fanboyism, I am unashamedly a fanboy. I haven't disliked a single game Bungie has made, so I tend to trust them until I at least get my hands on the game.

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That was actually Hedge that said that.

Oh, sorry.

But either way, you're trusting the words of people who watched a trailer of a game and said it looks "boring" or "Halo with a little bit of Borderlands"

I'm not trusting any of their words. I actually disagree with a bunch of the excerpts I quoted - like the one idiot who didn't think RPG and shooter mechanics mixed. What I was showing, however, was that the general sentiment is a big 'meh' - at best.

Ragashingo and I also pointed out two articles of people who obviously enjoyed the game a lot and said so without using PR terms. In fact I've only really read two things negative by people who actually played it, one of which was it was boring from Kotaku, and the other is from a lot of journalists saying they didn't get to see enough of Destiny. Virtually ALL of the negative is coming from people watching the trailer, which is fine for them to think, there is no problem with it, but my opinion of the game or the footage that I saw is not affected by their comments on the same thing I saw.

I take what I see coming from the 'journalists' with a grain of salt. You really should, too. Frankly, I was more surprised that a single journalist (Kotaku) actually said up front that they didn't like it. These are people who practically subsist on bribery and kickbacks from the large publishers. They consistently rate games 2-4 points higher on a 1-10 scale than the average gamer does, and they almost never give a game a score under 5-6 out of 10.

Believing anything they say is plain foolishness. I don't trust the videogame 'journalists' nor their blatant advertisements that masquerade as 'opinions', and I frankly think you would be better off doing the same. Gaming 'journalism' is a joke.

As for as the comment on fanboyism, I am unashamedly a fanboy. I haven't disliked a single game Bungie has made, so I tend to trust them until I at least get my hands on the game.

I'd consider myself a Bungie fanboy as well, but if anything that's what drives my extreme examination and criticism of them.

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I've yet to find anyone who actually played the game and wants to give a candid opinion, but right now there's basically: A lot of normal people who are very pessimistic about what they've seen so far, and a PR/Media that is going hog-wild with praise for the game splurting buzzwords everywhere while not actually describing anything they didn't like or gameplay in actual detail.

First of all--how do we know people aren't being candid?

I've seen lots of detailed descriptions and some concerns expressed. One thing: most people who have played the game are game journalists who have, one assumes, an ability to write about games in a compelling way. That's a different animal from Jo blo on the internet who shares a few vague, meaningless adjectives enlivened only with an f-bomb garnish.

But I get your point. Journalists/hacks claim to love it but the average gamer isn't impressed (based on your hand-picked examples). That might mean something if the average gamer had actually played the game and not just watched a video. It might also matter more to me if so many gamers weren't COD bros.

The truth remains, no one will be able to judge the game in full until 9/9. Some hacks will surely get earlier access, but no one has to listen to them. Your collection of evidence certainly proves that you can gather evidence.

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But I get your point. Journalists/hacks claim to love it but the average gamer isn't impressed (based on your hand-picked examples). That might mean something if the average gamer had actually played the game and not just watched a video. It might also matter more to me if so many gamers weren't COD bros.

The funny thing is if you go back and look at the Titanfall videos a LOT of the comments are "So it's COD with mechs, so what?" Sounds pretty similar to the detractors for Destiny videos :)

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But I get your point. Journalists/hacks claim to love it but the average gamer isn't impressed (based on your hand-picked examples). That might mean something if the average gamer had actually played the game and not just watched a video. It might also matter more to me if so many gamers weren't COD bros.

The funny thing is if you go back and look at the Titanfall videos a LOT of the comments are "So it's COD with mechs, so what?" Sounds pretty similar to the detractors for Destiny videos :)

I'm right there with you. In relation to Titanfall, personally having sunk in significant time and developed a modicum of skill, statements like that are at the HEIGHT of ignorance. I'm confident Destiny will, in retrospect, make similar comments equally hilarious.

And if the "average gamer" is such a sniveling, cynical beast, they haven't been paying attention.

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First of all--how do we know people aren't being candid?

The canned, overly verbose salesman-like language gives it away.

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[*]"The RPG elements kill it for me, I don't want to be running around firing at fucking sponges for the entirety of the game and having to constantly upgrade/find a new weapon every few levels. This is what killed Borderlands for me. RPG and FPS just don't go very well together. Art style and music scream Halo, which isn't a bad thing."

Lol. Someone has never played Deus Ex :-p

I've yet to find anyone who actually played the game and wants to give a candid opinion, but right now there's basically: A lot of normal people who are very pessimistic about what they've seen so far, and a PR/Media that is going hog-wild with praise for the game splurting buzzwords everywhere while not actually describing anything they didn't like or gameplay in actual detail.

That is because the gaming press can't talk shit about a game as big as Destiny, or else they risk not getting content from Bungie, or even other Activision games in the future.

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Lol. Someone has never played Deus Ex :-p

Heh. To be honest, though, the shooter aspect of it was about average for the time. Leveling up weapon abilities to be able to use it relevantly wasn't very compelling to me either.

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Lol. Someone has never played Deus Ex :-p

Heh. To be honest, though, the shooter aspect of it was about average for the time. Leveling up weapon abilities to be able to use it relevantly wasn't very compelling to me either.

That is the beauty of the game! You could have just leveled up the abilities you like, and focused on the augs that enabled the playstyle you want if you weren't into the weapons.

I for one enjoyed headshotting foes with my master pistol, augmented with stealth abilities. But you can forge your own way!

Truly a game ahead of its time. STILL ahead of the time since nobody seems to be improving on it; not even Human Revolution.

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Lol. Someone has never played Deus Ex :-p

Heh. To be honest, though, the shooter aspect of it was about average for the time. Leveling up weapon abilities to be able to use it relevantly wasn't very compelling to me either.

That is the beauty of the game! You could have just leveled up the abilities you like, and focused on the augs that enabled the playstyle you want if you weren't into the weapons.

I for one enjoyed headshotting foes with my master pistol, augmented with stealth abilities. But you can forge your own way!

Truly a game ahead of its time. STILL ahead of the time since nobody seems to be improving on it; not even Human Revolution.

Mandatory.

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That is the beauty of the game! You could have just leveled up the abilities you like, and focused on the augs that enabled the playstyle you want if you weren't into the weapons.

I mean, I loved it, but I still wish it didn't take skills to even begin to use them right. I'd expect a trained agent to not need nano-upgrading to be able shoot at least the first shot straight...

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That is the beauty of the game! You could have just leveled up the abilities you like, and focused on the augs that enabled the playstyle you want if you weren't into the weapons.

I mean, I loved it, but I still wish it didn't take skills to even begin to use them right. I'd expect a trained agent to not need nano-upgrading to be able shoot at least the first shot straight...

That's why you have enough points at the start of the game to put points into some weapons :-p

In fact you start out proficient in the pistol by default, which you can downgrade and put into another weapon group if you want :-p If you really want to, you have enough to master a few types right off the bat, at the expense of all your other skills.

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That is because the gaming press can't talk shit about a game as big as Destiny, or else they risk not getting content from Bungie, or even other Activision games in the future.

Which is an unfortunate problem with the gaming industry today. The media is really just a PR mouthpiece extension for the large publishers. They're about the least reliable source for any sort of - not even unbiased, but just honest - commentary I can think of.

I can't take most of these guys seriously anymore, you could practically have a bot write the summaries and experiences instead and not see much, if any difference.

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I believe gibberish is the new gobbledegook. Just remember Kermit, you can't spell nonsense without no sense. And a left over "n" which I'll add letters to and spell noodles. Which I feel like having for lunch today.

Btw, if I put a sparrow between my legs will I be able to run faster? I'm going past a park later. I'll let you know how I go.

-Hedge via engram.

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I honestly don't understand where all this pessimism is coming from...Bungie has given us a lot of really good games...

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I feel like I'm not reading and watching the same stuff as all these pessimists. Nothing in the gameplay videos suggests anything less than a very fun and pretty game to me. I hope you guys are proven wrong and we all enjoy the game together. I personally am more excited than ever.

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I feel like I'm not reading and watching the same stuff as all these pessimists. Nothing in the gameplay videos suggests anything less than a very fun and pretty game to me. I hope you guys are proven wrong and we all enjoy the game together. I personally am more excited than ever.

I'd say most of the replies in this thread, besides observing how over-the-top and declaratory it was, is in disagreement with the original post.

I think a lot of folks like making judgments, critiquing, and throwing things in a like or dislike pile. Rather then wait-and-see or shades of grey opinions, we get knee-jerk binary opinions. One might even see a correlation between that and how Facebook and social networks work...

Remember too that here's plenty of people who lurk, who don't feel the need to state their opinions. Cynicism tends to be loud and rousing though, so forums like this and HBO can get rather overwhelming at times for those wanting casual and enjoyable reading and discussion. It gets under my skin too and I have to take breaks or just ignore certain posters to be able to have a nice casual browse.

Of course, when it swings the other way and a lot of people are positive and having fun together, you'll get called out for having blind or rose-tinted views. Imagine a fan-forum generally liking or looking forward to the thing it was made for? Crazy!

We are also at a time where a lot of Halo fans are awaiting Destiny and judging it by what they're used to: Halo standards. Some of those people are going to be disappointed when they see how Destiny is different, and they'll move away to something else (which is no slight to them, maybe I won't like Destiny, who knows?). This forum will then become a place for folks who love Destiny for what it is, whatever that may be.

Or maybe the cynics and un-fans will continue to stick around to let everyone know how "things could have been", etc. But I hope not. I don't post on HBO much anymore because I don't want to be "that guy" - I'm not a big fan of Microsoft's ongoing Halo projects, so why hamper people who are enjoying it with my negative opinions? I've said my critiques and moved on. I'll do the same for Destiny if for some reason it doesn't vibe with me, and leave the forum in the hands who are having a blast... I hope a few months after the release, it will be a sort of second genesis for the forum.

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It's not like they're being asshats, they're just expressing opinions and (at least the vast majority here) quite in a civil way.

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It's not like they're being asshats, they're just expressing opinions and (at least the vast majority here) quite in a civil way.

The majority of every thread from yesterday is filled with gushing positives and a few worries. The pre-order thread is about the only place (aside from this one) with negativity. The negativity, really no matter how it's presented, is generally always met with dismissive, rude, mocking, or name-calling posts. It snowballs from there as people (including myself) get defensive. People seem to want to discuss if they're in agreement with positive things only.

If you express how super excited you are, and here, take my money now and oh my gosh Destiny is the best game ever (even though all you've seen are a few things, never touched it yourself, but your positives are wildly overblown), that's totally cool. God forbid someone gets emotional or passionate in a dissenting way, and all of a sudden we get "So much pessimism on the forums." or "Don't be such a debbie downer!"

Great way to be nice to your fellow forum goers, even if they get a bit hyped up and emotional in a non-positive regard. I find it ridiculous that yakaman even felt the need to have to say, "At the risk of being ridiculed and and vilified" and "I respect this forum and its users greatly, and I hesitate to express my sentiments here". It's wonderful that there's this respect and love, but it's damned unfortunate that there's such fear of reprisal for a dissenting opinion.

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From my observations at least, conversations and debates dwindle to inflammatory nonsense not because of the opinions or facts being stated, but the way in which they are stated, on both sides.

God forbid someone gets emotional or passionate in a dissenting way, and all of a sudden we get "So much pessimism on the forums." or "Don't be such a debbie downer!"

I will say, on a fan forum, it does make sense that passionate love for the thing in-fandom-of is met with a warmer welcome than passionate dislike, considering the audience, doesn't it? If you wanted a more neutral-opinionated forum, I would think a place with "Destiny" in the title wouldn't be a good indicator of that... But that's just my thoughts. :)

Also from my observations, "passionate in a dissenting way" tends to communicate in a very different form than passionate in a positive way. I'm not referring to you here; I know by experience that when I make a post out of anger, it tends to be among the stupidest things I've ever said, and it rarely generates a quality discussion. :)

But I think the biggest problem on both sides of an intense debate, is a tendency to group people who think differently than you into one big group. That's what I think causes the offensive and defensive attitudes - all of the sudden you're mistaking your anger for that one loud, rude person with the calm folk who happen to share the same opinion with them. I make that mistake all the time, on the internet and in real life.

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From my observations at least, conversations and debates dwindle to inflammatory nonsense not because of the opinions or facts being stated, but the way in which they are stated, on both sides.

God forbid someone gets emotional or passionate in a dissenting way, and all of a sudden we get "So much pessimism on the forums." or "Don't be such a debbie downer!"

I will say, on a fan forum, it does make sense that passionate love for the thing in-fandom-of is met with a warmer welcome than passionate dislike, considering the audience, doesn't it? If you wanted a more neutral-opinionated forum, I would think a place with "Destiny" in the title wouldn't be a good indicator of that... But that's just my thoughts. :)

It does make sense. It also makes sense for people, on a fan forum with just as much love and fandom for Bungie and their games as the people waxing poetic about all the things, to be equally passionate in many regards about many things, sometimes in a negative way and also not presented in "the best of ways" all the time.

And about your thoughts, keep excusing yourself/others by implying that a place with "Destiny" is A-Okay for passionate positives and only neutral-to-minor negatives.

It's also pretty ridiculous that it seems like you're implying that people who feel negatively toward something are somehow less fans of Bungie/Destiny than those who never have anything bad to say about it. Way to be welcoming and fostering of discussion. :)

Without that post that started this thread, you wouldn't have yakaman's well thought out post. Or maybe he would have made it elsewhere. Either way, we got what we got from it. Food for thought.

Also from my observations, "passionate in a dissenting way" tends to communicate in a very different form than passionate in a positive way. I'm not referring to you here; I know by experience that when I make a post out of anger, it tends to be among the stupidest things I've ever said, and it rarely generates a quality discussion. :)

You're right on just about all counts. The difference is, no one mocks or treats people poorly for being crazy blind followers who scream, "I SAW ONE CONCEPT ART PHOTO, DESTINY WILL BE THE BEST GAME EVER, TAKE ALL MY MONEY!" as opposed to "Pre-order exclusives that impact gameplay are bullshit."

But I think the biggest problem on both sides of an intense debate, is a tendency to group people who think differently than you into one big group. That's what I think causes the offensive and defensive attitudes - all of the sudden you're mistaking your anger for that one loud, rude person with the calm folk who happen to share the same opinion with them.

Also spot on.

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You're right on just about all counts. The difference is, no one mocks or treats people poorly for being crazy blind followers who scream, "I SAW ONE CONCEPT ART PHOTO, DESTINY WILL BE THE BEST GAME EVER, TAKE ALL MY MONEY!"

A little over the top, no?

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You're right on just about all counts. The difference is, no one mocks or treats people poorly for being crazy blind followers who scream, "I SAW ONE CONCEPT ART PHOTO, DESTINY WILL BE THE BEST GAME EVER, TAKE ALL MY MONEY!"

A little over the top, no?

Exactly the point of it. ;)

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Exactly the point of it. ;)

Well stop.

Serious and perhaps even needed conversations don't need that kind of hyperbole. I mean, come on... You've got people actively and honestly engaging with you and you're throwning caps locked exaggeration at them... :/

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It does make sense. It also makes sense for people, on a fan forum with just as much love and fandom for Bungie and their games as the people waxing poetic about all the things, to be equally passionate in many regards about many things, sometimes in a negative way and also not presented in "the best of ways" all the time.

And about your thoughts, keep excusing yourself/others by implying that a place with "Destiny" is A-Okay for passionate positives and only neutral-to-minor negatives.

I'm receiving a defensive, rude tone, here, but I might be wrong. I really wasn't trying to incite anything! :)

I'm also not sure I'm trying to excuse myself. I'm more talking about asking myself why I am here, on a video game fan website. The conclusions I've come to is that it's for fun, meeting people to play the game with and discuss this thing they love with, and to see creations made by passionate people. I'd like to think a lot of the people here are here for the same reasons. So then I think it kind of makes sense that there tends to be more positive opinions than negative. Why would I want to hang out at a place where the reverse was true? Why would anyone?

But I have never said there can not be more than neutral negative opinions here - in fact, I just stated to Zack that I'm personally happy with ANY kind of opinion as long as they are not offensive and inflammatory. The problem is, there tends to be correlation between the loud naysayers and people who write in an insulting or rude way, in my opinion.

It's also pretty ridiculous that it seems like you're implying that people who feel negatively toward something are somehow less fans of Bungie/Destiny than those who never have anything bad to say about it. Way to be welcoming and fostering of discussion. :)

That was not my desired implication - I have made plenty of criticisms of Bungie games in my time. I may be wrong, but you write like you're angry with me, and this is when discussions go poorly. I personally have meant no ill will towards you.

You're right on just about all counts. The difference is, no one mocks or treats people poorly for being crazy blind followers who scream, "I SAW ONE CONCEPT ART PHOTO, DESTINY WILL BE THE BEST GAME EVER, TAKE ALL MY MONEY!" as opposed to "Pre-order exclusives that impact gameplay are bullshit."

Actually, I read those kinds of posts all the time as well - and have been the target of some of that mocking and poor treatment, to the point where I considered never coming back to this forum again.

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It does make sense. It also makes sense for people, on a fan forum with just as much love and fandom for Bungie and their games as the people waxing poetic about all the things, to be equally passionate in many regards about many things, sometimes in a negative way and also not presented in "the best of ways" all the time.

And about your thoughts, keep excusing yourself/others by implying that a place with "Destiny" is A-Okay for passionate positives and only neutral-to-minor negatives.

I'm receiving a defensive, rude tone, here, but I might be wrong. I really wasn't trying to incite anything! :)

I'm also not sure I'm trying to excuse myself. I'm more talking about asking myself why I am here, on a video game fan website. The conclusions I've come to is that it's for fun, meeting people to play the game with and discuss this thing they love with, and to see creations made by passionate people. I'd like to think a lot of the people here are here for the same reasons. So then I think it kind of makes sense that there tends to be more positive opinions than negative. Why would I want to hang out at a place where the reverse was true? Why would anyone?

Thanks for the reply. Obviously there would be more positives than negatives. I was never disputing that. It's the response that seemed pretty condescending. I would like to think that people here are here for the same reasons, too. Let's exclude me for a moment. Let's just look at pete's post. Pre-order BS begins. A simple sigh. Now he's a debbie downer and a whiner. Say what?

Why would you want to hang out in a place, though, where all anyone ever does is agree with each other, nothing is thought about critically, and when things are (constructively or not, btw), they're shot down, dissed, or almost frowned upon?

But I have never said there can not be more than neutral negative opinions here - in fact, I just stated to Zack that I'm personally happy with ANY kind of opinion as long as they are not offensive and inflammatory. The problem is, there tends to be correlation between the loud naysayers and people who write in an insulting or rude way, in my opinion.

We're all fans here, and that's why we care so much (even about little tiny "stupid" things like a pre-order exclusive). It just seemed like you were trying to be dismissive of the negative (constructive or otherwise) while at the same time advocating for it. My perception, though. Thanks for elaborating on what you meant, and sorry for coming off abrasive in response.

I also feel like the correlation is because, to begin with, there seems to be an issue with dissent, whether constructive or blunt. It's definitely not always a matter of the loud and forcefully opinionated with their terrible deliveries impacting the more constructive.

It's also pretty ridiculous that it seems like you're implying that people who feel negatively toward something are somehow less fans of Bungie/Destiny than those who never have anything bad to say about it. Way to be welcoming and fostering of discussion. :)

That was not my desired implication - I have made plenty of criticisms of Bungie games in my time. I may be wrong, but you write like you're angry with me, and this is when discussions go poorly. I personally have meant no ill will towards you.

Again, sorry for replying the way I did. I viewed you as just being more dismissive and almost implying that because the name "Destiny" or "Bungie" is in the url that it's time to only say the nice things. I think you hit the nail on the head about where discussions go poorly. Someone voices a complaint, it looks like maybe they're being brushed aside by another, and then there's some pretty heated responses.

You're right on just about all counts. The difference is, no one mocks or treats people poorly for being crazy blind followers who scream, "I SAW ONE CONCEPT ART PHOTO, DESTINY WILL BE THE BEST GAME EVER, TAKE ALL MY MONEY!" as opposed to "Pre-order exclusives that impact gameplay are bullshit."

Actually, I read those kinds of posts all the time as well - and have been the target of some of that mocking and poor treatment, to the point where I considered never coming back to this forum again.

I'm genuinely sorry that's happened. I'm not advocating for such a thing, either, btw. I'm drawing a comparison to say that it's all fine for people to get super irrationally (in my opinion) excited over something, but something else that negatively gets someone going seems to be off limits. I've found more often than not that the people (not all, but the majority) who disagree with things strongly are usually in agreement with the majority of positive things (and have stated such) going on here. All of that seems to be forgotten if they disagree with something using things like hyperbole, or cuss words, or stating opinions like fact.

Do some things need to be delivered better on here (positive/negative)? Yes. Will they always be? No. Doesn't mean the hammer should come down on people who are passionate, especially those who dare to disagree. And I'm sort of in disbelief that you were treated the way you were for liking things. Another ridiculous thing that shouldn't happen.

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Why would you want to hang out in a place, though, where all anyone ever does is agree with each other, nothing is thought about critically, and when things are (constructively or not, btw), they're shot down, dissed, or almost frowned upon?

It probably wouldn't be a great place either, and while you may have had a bad experience today, I really don't think this forum or HBO is anywhere close to that definition, as I've gotten so bummed out on negativity from both of those places that I've had to take breaks and block the site (to keep boredom and my muscle memory clicks from leading me back) to not drown out my patronage forever. I remember times that people were so inflammatory and pretentious to me that even after leaving the site behind, the frustration stayed with me through the day. As I've gotten older, I just can't take that kind of arrogance and presumption at all anymore. I don't want to waste my time with it; life's too short! :)

But in the past I've also tried to mediate threads before they dissolved into that nonsense - as in trying to turn someone's initial vent into an actual constructive criticism to generate a thoughtful thread or to try and stem a hogpile on a dissenter accidentally mistaken for a troll. I haven't done that as much lately - I'll try harder to remind folks on both sides to keep the calm, to construct their posts to invite discussion.

One of the difficulties with this: inflammatory posts tend to illicit a lot of independent reactions very quickly, and a lot of people react before reading everyone else's posts (I do it). All of the sudden you have this long list of people darting back, when one or two responses might have been understandable. And then that original poster gets on the defensive as it feels like a united team is bearing down on them, when in actuality it's just a bunch of individuals reacting separately at the same time, thanks to the wonders of the Internet. This sort of goes back to my "grouping people tendency" mentioned a couple posts back. And this can happen in reverse. Someone can post something positive excitedly and be met with what feels like a wall of apathy or cynicism.

Right here we have Xenos and you, Avateur, feeling pretty much the exact opposite ambiance from this forum - perhaps that shows how this site isn't skewed too much in one direction, that there is hope for good discussion... or perhaps it just shows how terrible of a medium the Internet is to communicate in. Either way, we should all try to be more thoughtful and careful in our posts, whether positive or negative, thread starters or replies. :)

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It's not like they're being asshats, they're just expressing opinions and (at least the vast majority here) quite in a civil way.

The majority of every thread from yesterday is filled with gushing positives and a few worries. The pre-order thread is about the only place (aside from this one) with negativity. The negativity, really no matter how it's presented, is generally always met with dismissive, rude, mocking, or name-calling posts. It snowballs from there as people (including myself) get defensive. People seem to want to discuss if they're in agreement with positive things only.

I think we're all a little worried. It's a new IP. None of us (as far as I know) have played it. Some of us have been around longer, have seen numerous new IPs from Bungie, and are less worried than others. But even among those there's a fear that we won't like it. I've heard admins here express it. (One today, another years ago.) If, in the heat of the moment, I have mocked, dismissed or what have you then I apologize, but some reactions (and conclusions drawn) seem unreasonable, especially at this stage.

If you express how super excited you are, and here, take my money now and oh my gosh Destiny is the best game ever (even though all you've seen are a few things, never touched it yourself, but your positives are wildly overblown), that's totally cool. God forbid someone gets emotional or passionate in a dissenting way, and all of a sudden we get "So much pessimism on the forums." or "Don't be such a debbie downer!"

I actually haven't noticed that much over-the-top gushing. I have seen some over-the-top skepticism. But you're right--we've only seen few things, and on whichever side we fall, we're guessing. (Full disclosure--my excitement thus far is fueled by my history with Bungie more so than what I've seen of Destiny. I don't know if Destiny will be a game I enjoy as much as other Bungie games. I have high hopes, though. The only thing I'm sure about is that I'm going to love looking at it.)

Great way to be nice to your fellow forum goers, even if they get a bit hyped up and emotional in a non-positive regard. I find it ridiculous that yakaman even felt the need to have to say, "At the risk of being ridiculed and and vilified" and "I respect this forum and its users greatly, and I hesitate to express my sentiments here". It's wonderful that there's this respect and love, but it's damned unfortunate that there's such fear of reprisal for a dissenting opinion.

A little throat-clearing might be in order on a FAN site. Perhaps not that much throat-clearing. I like to think ridicule and vilification is less common here (or milder at least) than most places on the internet, but what yakaman did most effectively to garner a positive reaction from everyone was give specifics and not make premature pronouncements. His was actually one of my favorite posts from this week.

This site is built for fans. I hope that constructive criticism is welcome. Yeah, fan boys and girls gonna disagree, but bungie.org forums have never lacked thoughtful posts, and appreciative responses to them. Let's hope Destiny is good enough that we continue to have our fandom in common in September. If not, well, I've made some friends, and I've got other interests to occupy myself with.

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Very well said, thank you Avateur.

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It's not like they're being asshats, they're just expressing opinions and (at least the vast majority here) quite in a civil way.

It's usually just a few that get on my nerves. I'm in no way against expressing negative opinions in a civil way. It's arrogance, presumption, and pretension that excites my blood, the kind of posts that are loud to be loud or to declare their opinion as if it means more than just that.

Comparing Reconcilliation's post to Yakaman's is a great example of the difference. If all the folks on the negative side of the scale (or positive side for that matter) explained themselves clearly like Yakaman, without bold declarations that no one is really primed to make, I'd be in forum heaven, personally. If Reconcilliation said "I wasn't impressed from this trailer, here's why...", the thread would have generated a lot more thoughtful comments, I think. :)

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I feel like I'm not reading and watching the same stuff as all these pessimists. Nothing in the gameplay videos suggests anything less than a very fun and pretty game to me. I hope you guys are proven wrong and we all enjoy the game together. I personally am more excited than ever.

Then... I guess that means you aren't a pessimist then. ;)

I think most just wanted that ever illustrious "more". In fact most I think are summed up from what DeeJ mentioned here.

The countdown to E3 has been put to note.

In about 40 days we shall see part two, we will see Sepkis Prime - and no doubt the Beta Date (if not before). That is 8 Fridays from now.

Intill then - Play against the Elites in Halo:Reach or exclusively the Level Mombasa Streets in all Halo:ODST. Play some Mass effect and create a character that will let you blow things up with whatever powers that be. Every one is briggin' in Borderlands - might was well play that too.

Its a pitty we don't know much in detail about character customization. When the Reach beta came out (and in fact I think I still have the Halo 3 beta on my Hard drive) most of my time was spent trying to figure out what my character was going to look like. Concepting - and a some imagination - is a fun way to pass time (when not forced into other dutys).

40 days will be here faster then you can say - "OMG its September".

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In about 40 days we shall see part two, we will see Sepkis Prime - and no doubt the Beta Date (if not before). That is 8 Fridays from now.

…by my count, it's 6 Fridays, including this Friday, the 2nd. :)

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Those are all great ideas on what to play, but honestly I will most likely be working towards Gen 10 in Titanfall :) (Gen 8!)

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I honestly regretted posting just a few minutes after. I was honestly feeling bummed after reading a few posts in a row that were stating matter-of-factly how Destiny was going to flop and should've just waited a little and I would've gotten over it. I am glad it spawned a good discussion despite itself!

For the record I really don't have anything against someone who is dubious about Destiny or doesn't like what they've seen. It's mostly arrogance or pretension that drive me up the wall. I think this should be the perfect place to talk about concerns (and despite how I most often post, I do have my own concerns that I've even posted on here). I just sometimes get annoyed when someone states with complete certainty how something is terrible. I just need to learn to not let it get to me so much. :)

So, thanks for being awesome DBO.

Be Brave.

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I hope you guys are proven wrong and we all enjoy the game together.

Yes, please.

I personally am more excited than ever.

So when I said I was hesitant to post negative opinions on this forum, its because I like you guys and don't want to harsh anyone's excitement. But I really don't have anyone else to talk to that might relate to this discussion...my wife just looks at me like I'm weird.

As I said...the beta will render all this moot. We just need to play it. After all, "fun" is difficult to show in a game-play video. And you can't show mystery and endless adventure in a 5 minute demo.

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As I said...the beta will render all this moot. We just need to play it. After all, "fun" is difficult to show in a game-play video. And you can't show mystery and endless adventure in a 5 minute demo.

Very much this. My real hope is E3 will be when the beta opens. "And starting RIGHT NOW you can download the beta." But of course that's almost certainly wishful thinking :)

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As I said...the beta will render all this moot. We just need to play it. After all, "fun" is difficult to show in a game-play video. And you can't show mystery and endless adventure in a 5 minute demo.

Very much this. My real hope is E3 will be when the beta opens. "And starting RIGHT NOW you can download the beta." But of course that's almost certainly wishful thinking :)

Holy shit that needs to happen though. Epic gameplay or trailer or something, and then it ends right on that quote you said. Perfection.

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Prediction on Destiny (Destiny)

I hope not.