You had to adapt to adversity on the fly and still come out on top.

That sounds like... Skill. In fact, that sounds like the very definition of skill. Careful, this will scare Snipe away...

My lawn, get off it.

I'll mow that lawn for you, old man. No charge.

~m

~k

I don't think you realize the pain of tossing the perfect cocktail, capable of blowing up ten thrall, only to have it fizzle out :-p

Oh I do, I played the Myth games :)

As long as the stuff I suggested would be predictable I wouldn't mind

See, and therein lies the problem. If they allowed for the kind of randomness that made Myth so great in a modern title, they'd be burned in effigy in the street. I can hardly imagine the howls of "this takes no skiiiiill" echoing from every wannabe pro gamer. That was what it took to win in Myth, also what made it so fun. You never knew what would happen. You had to adapt to adversity on the fly and still come out on top.

My lawn, get off it.

~m

I really like your lawn. I think there's a lot of confusion in this thread about being upset at dying vs. being upset at how easy it is to get kills. Yes, Snipe doesn't enjoy losing to Supers because they're "free kill attacks" or whatever he said. Yes, situations in games can require one to adapt to adversity on the fly and still come out on top. There are many, many games that do this way better than Destiny, and those games absolutely require skill to win.

In Destiny, Snipe's complaint is that he, himself, and his teammates are absolute murder machines. His complaint is that it's too easy for himself and his friends to be doing what they're doing. Sure, someone might get the Super Insta-Kill on him, but he'll respawn a second later with his power weapon and continue to mow all the lawns. I think people are so surprised that he's bitching about being good, killing endlessly, and winning nearly every game that it's making people think that he's crying because maybe he dies every now and then. He's not complaining about his deaths, or the fact that "them unskilledz" can kill him. Not even close. He's complaining at how easily this game lets him do whatever he wants.

Also, all of these Halo comparisons. Sheesh. Destiny is definitely not Halo. I have played so many FPS games that are nothing like Halo. Destiny is by far the easiest, requires the least amount of skill, and appears to have no real balance. Period. I don't even want to use Halo as a comparison. Casual, hardcore, whatever you want to call it or someone's experience and play style. For everyone, Destiny seems meant to be just a cake walk from a design standpoint. They couldn't even show deaths in the postgame screen because this game wants everyone to feel so good about themselves at all times. Cake walk. That's my opinion, though. Not sure if Snipe shares that.

Granted, I also really enjoyed myself in Crucible. I can't wait to play more of it. I think what I enjoyed most was coordinating with my team and mopping the floors against nearly everyone we played against. At the same time, it gets old and not very satisfying after a while when there's no real challenge and it feels like everything you do is just being handed to you. I like to earn my wins, and a huge chunk of my wins were by 10,000 points or more. Will this continue after launch? Who knows. I hope not, but I have a bad feeling.

Edit: Not sure if the "no skills" bit was referencing Snipe's post or other thoughts regarding ease of killing in Destiny or not, or if even meant for Crucible, but I felt that maybe it did. That's really what my reply is all about. Sorry if taken out of wrong context!

I don't think you realize the pain of tossing the perfect cocktail, capable of blowing up ten thrall, only to have it fizzle out :-p

Oh I do, I played the Myth games :)

As long as the stuff I suggested would be predictable I wouldn't mind

See, and therein lies the problem. If they allowed for the kind of randomness that made Myth so great in a modern title, they'd be burned in effigy in the street. I can hardly imagine the howls of "this takes no skiiiiill" echoing from every wannabe pro gamer. That was what it took to win in Myth, also what made it so fun. You never knew what would happen. You had to adapt to adversity on the fly and still come out on top.

My lawn, get off it.

Couldn't agree more.

Skill has its limits. A believable world with real stakes has things in it that even the best player cannot overcome every single time merely by the application of skill. You may also have to be lucky-- which also means that less skilled players can also succeed, sometimes, despite less skill.

Of course, you don't want to go too far down either road, but a little randomness is not bad.