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Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver? (Destiny)

by car15, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:00 (3523 days ago)

I'm really beginning to think so.

First, read this superb analysis of the changes made to Destiny since E3: http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/2bx7qh/were_bungies_ambitions_higher_than_what_they/

Finished?

Now let's talk about it.

It seems to me that Destiny fell prey to the same problem that plagued Halo 2: over-ambition. When you compare the way the game was presented at E3 with the way it turned out, there is an obvious dissonance.

Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by spidersVise ⌂, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:19 (3523 days ago) @ car15

Yup. The game that was sold to me in E3 is not here, in terms of exploration and such.

Invisible walls and death barriers just make me feel like a mouse in a beautifully furnished cage.

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Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by car15, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:32 (3523 days ago) @ spidersVise

Agreed, and I think that's obvious to many of us.

What I want to discuss is whether Bungie ever made an honest effort to deliver on their early promises. Was it all lies from the beginning, or was Bungie simply forced to scale their original ideas down to something more realistic? I'd like to believe they took the latter path, but it's difficult to tell. Having learned so much about the troubled development of Halo 2, thanks to interviews with past and present Bungie employees involved in that production, I see a lot of similarities with Destiny.

Halo 2 started out with insane ambition, made a fine showing at E3 2003 that ended up being mostly smoke and mirrors, and then was forced to scale back when Bungie realized that they didn't have the time or the resources to actually do what they originally said they would do.

Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by FyreWulff, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:36 (3523 days ago) @ car15

I'll give them a bit before I fully judge. This game is not meant to be all present out of the box. For all we know, all of those areas WILL become explorable as part of updates.

Of course, they have a time limit of patience even for me and people's opinions on what is there are legit.. but this is a different style of game than their last ones.

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Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by car15, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:54 (3523 days ago) @ FyreWulff

Zoom out on the landscape behind the Cosmodrome wall. Look at how low-res it is. Do you really think those kill barriers are temporary?

Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by Psyrixx, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:56 (3523 days ago) @ car15

LOD Scaling.

Potentially.

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Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by car15, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:56 (3523 days ago) @ Psyrixx

I hope you're right.

Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by Psyrixx, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:58 (3523 days ago) @ car15

I do too!

Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by FyreWulff, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 03:38 (3522 days ago) @ car15

LOD and memory management.

They've outright mentioned in the patch notes that they've even adjusted LOD volumes in multiplayer maps for the 360 and PS3.

tl;dr if you can't go there yet, the engine has no reason to load full detail on something. Destiny retains the Imposter system from Reach, as well.

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Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 10:10 (3522 days ago) @ FyreWulff

LOD and memory management.

They've outright mentioned in the patch notes that they've even adjusted LOD volumes in multiplayer maps for the 360 and PS3.

tl;dr if you can't go there yet, the engine has no reason to load full detail on something. Destiny retains the Imposter system from Reach, as well.

LoD or not, those skyboxes don't have the general shape I'd expect of a functional gameplay environment. I also had that thought of the 2013 E3 demo, and those areas were substantially more detailed at the time.

Even if they do ultimately "become gameplay areas," what they wind up being isn't going to remotely resemble what you're looking at sufficiently well to really be considered "that area we see over there", unless Bungie has succumbed to complete and total insanity.

Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by Blue_Blazer_NZ, Wellington, New Zealand, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 15:58 (3523 days ago) @ FyreWulff

I'll give them a bit before I fully judge. This game is not meant to be all present out of the box. For all we know, all of those areas WILL become explorable as part of updates.

I'm not even too phased by the physical size of the game worlds etc. I would be 110% stoked if what we currently have was used to tell a truly epic story that extended beyond being a glorified courier that is essentially just getting the Ghost from one terminal/door to the next. I'm supposed to be a guardian of Earth fighting back the horrors of the Darkness; yet all I feel I'm ever doing (in story missions) is going from point A to point B simply to experience the same sort of thing I've done the last three missions.

I guess my point is, If we going to get more explorable areas; it doesn't matter if the core story and mission structure to fill them is lacking.

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Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by car15, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 16:03 (3523 days ago) @ Blue_Blazer_NZ

I'd be happy with one or the other. Either a decent narrative or a highly explorable world would be enough to capture my interest. As it is, we didn't get either of those things.

(Of course, having both is ideal, but I'm saying that I'd be sufficiently pleased with one or the other to draw me back into the game.)

Were Bungie's ambitions higher than what they could deliver?

by Fuertisimo, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 16:25 (3523 days ago) @ FyreWulff

Part of the problem is you're going to be charged 20 bucks a pop every 3 months for a chance to see these areas. The game is frankly small right now, and to make it as big as they were touting it to be you'll end up shelling out 60-80 bucks.

Destiny is a game about helping peter Dinklage open doors

by HavokBlue, California, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 16:33 (3523 days ago) @ car15

- No text -

Sadly - much of the story seems to be this.

by Blue_Blazer_NZ, Wellington, New Zealand, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 16:43 (3523 days ago) @ HavokBlue

- No text -

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Destiny is a game about helping peter Dinklage open doors

by Durandal, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 16:48 (3523 days ago) @ HavokBlue

Honestly, I was expecting something along the lines of Multiplayer Mass Effect or Boarderlands, and for the most part Bungie has delivered on that.

I was expecting larger areas and more on each planet, along with a few more cutscenes and such to really emphasize the story. Right now the world just feels a bit empty and small. Likewise the classes and upgrade trees. Three classes and two trees is a bit lackluster compared to most action/RPG style games.

It would be nice if you could do more with your ships, but they shot that rumor down early. They also hinted at a larger pool of vehicles, and I really feel after Halo did such a great job of making vehicles feel intrinsic Destiny drops the ball here. The Shrike is nice to get around in, but Destiny really needs some of that Warthog action. And Tanks. Tanks beat everything.

if anything, the only promise that Bungie kind of made and then failed on was the "This is all playable area" comment from one of the demos, where the guy panned over that starting area with the rusted out cars. That really made it sound like each area would be very vast, when instead they are large but not enormously so and a bit too divided into discrete areas that only have one or two exits.

Destiny is a game about helping peter Dinklage open doors

by Psyrixx, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 19:34 (3523 days ago) @ Durandal

if anything, the only promise that Bungie kind of made and then failed on was the "This is all playable area" comment from one of the demos, where the guy panned over that starting area with the rusted out cars. That really made it sound like each area would be very vast, when instead they are large but not enormously so and a bit too divided into discrete areas that only have one or two exits.

Unless, at some point, it will be. ;)

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Destiny is a game about helping peter Dinklage open doors

by Durandal, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 07:22 (3522 days ago) @ Psyrixx

Perhaps, but I suspect they will add additional areas to the same planets, and open up new ones, rather then solely expand on current areas.

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Could it be a Marathon?

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 03:49 (3522 days ago) @ car15

I'm thinking this game is going to play out over time. The story, new maps, new events every few weeks. Each giving a little hint of the background.

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Could it be a Marathon?

by car15, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 03:54 (3522 days ago) @ red robber

We'll see. I doubt it.

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Could it be a Marathon?

by bluerunner @, Music City, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 10:23 (3522 days ago) @ red robber

Welcome to DBO! About time. Now I won't have to send you links to posts and news all the time. :P

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Could it be a Marathon?

by red robber @, Crawfish Country, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 17:38 (3522 days ago) @ bluerunner

Now that I'm back into gaming, I don't need those updates. Hurry up and get a 1.

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