The fact that a significant part of the late-game plot was based on non-game materials like the Librarian/Didactic dialogue and the increasingly complex Forerunner novels rendered key cutscenes incredibly confusing. Why is the Didact an evil monster? Why is this ghost angel talking to Master Chief? Wait, she... sped up his evolution? How? Why? WHAT IS GOING ON I NEED AN ADULT.

At least when prior Halo games referenced background lore, they stuck to fun atmospheric easter eggs, like Cortana echoing Halsey's memories towards the end of the Cortana level in Halo 3. But making it required reading for understanding the core storyline is just like you said -- homework.

I was just thinking this... Having not had a chance to read any of the recent books or anything, I only knew that the Didact and Librarian were mentioned in the Halo 3 terminals. Other than that, I had no idea who they were and what their motivations were for their actions.

Like Jilly said, I had to go out of the game to Waypoint to even watch the Terminals and see who they were. It was homework and should've been conveyed in the main story, not hidden...

Indeed. I know this adage as well as I know my name. Have been taught it and have taught it. That's part of my confusion with Jilly's usage of the phrase in this context.

You said " Any written story is told, not shown." That isn't true in relation to the phrase "show, don't tell".

For instance if Bungie gave us a Grimoire that was the length of a short story, perhaps with some characters or plot, and used that to really make us fear the might of the Vex, then that would be "showing". They won't do that though, they continue to simply tell us about the danger.

Another is the expression on Ellie's face before she delivers the last line of the game.

As your friend, shut up.

You're being an ass.

Then I shall state that was BY FAR not my intent, and do so. If I have offended, I apologise. My curiosity can get the better of me sometimes.

Thank you for your honest observation Joe.

Yeah, sorry if there's any confusion. I'm absolutely agreeing with you in every way, shape, and form. And for the record, the Grimoire has some absolutely unbelievably well written and captivating stuff. The fact that it's so broken up, a lot of it is based on what you unlock via the grind or finding hidden items, and that it's outside of the game are all massive strikes against it. Whoever wrote it, though, definitely appears to know what they're doing (and should probably be let in to help shape and craft the overall narrative and its portrayal in-game going forward).

Yeah, you are agreeing with me. It looked to me like INSANEdrive was defending the Grimoire cards as a reasonable way to tell the in-game story.

Asking questions and Seeking clarification. No more. No less. Lines in the sand are irrelevant and a cognitive waste of time.

But you don't have friends in your Mass Effect lobby talking to you while you're digesting the Codex. I think that's why the Grimoire cares are not in-game. The real issue is the minimal story in the game, which is not what we've come to expect.

You're spot on. Unfortunately, it's a huge trade-off as far as in-game inclusion goes, but its inclusion and convenience absolutely trumps making you go elsewhere. I don't have friends on 24/7. When on alone, I'm usually filling my time randomly in the Tower or on Patrol. It'd be lovely to just chill in the Tower or wherever and read the Grimoire until some people get on. But yes, the real issue is minimal story.

You can dislike the choices they made, but I think your rhetoric is over the top. And, as I said in the other thread, it wasn't 343's choice--the videos weren't included at least at first because of development constraints. Maybe that's the case with Bungie. We don't know.

I understand that. I also understand that H1A managed to have its Terminals in-game, whereas the big blockbuster H4 didn't. H4 is also a disaster (in my opinion), and it's just another strike against it. Over the top rhetoric and all.

There's a long history of out-of-game game content, and Grimoire cards, from what I've read of them, seem like they are part of that tradition. Again, the issue is we're starving for narrative in the game.

I feel like you're completely spot on. The other side of it is that, while using the Halo 4 comparison, the Terminals are relatively short. The Grimoire is huge, and even if Destiny had a narrative in-game, something that huge and substantive is bound to be problematic when kept strictly outside of the game itself (edited this part, made no sense before, sorry).

And one more time, I think there's something dumb about having your character walk up to a screen in-game to unlock something, so that you can watch a movie on another screen later. Our characters don't actually find Grimoire cards in the game world.

In Halo 3 the Terminals were there as if Master Chief was actually accessing them himself and reading them. Cortana even comments on them, and Mendicant Bias at one point even acknowledges seeing the Chief. In Reach the data pads are picked up and read by the character, though they're primarily just for you. In ODST, Sadie's Story is also something being checked out in-game and conveyed, and even ends up down in that frozen area. The fact that the Grimoire cards are even so disembodied from the over arching world itself in-game only helps to detract from the experience.

But you don't have friends in your Mass Effect lobby talking to you while you're digesting the Codex. I think that's why the Grimoire cares are not in-game.

"Hey look, this optional feature might occasionally interact in a slightly negative way with another optional feature."

"Oh crap. I guess we have to axe everything."

//====================

And the flip side:

"Hey guys, this card totally just..."

"Cool!"

You didn't except for maybe in the Firefly lab.

That I found.

You find a note from a guy who's supposed to meet someone named Frank who wants into Boston's quarantine zone. You find this before you know any character named Frank, and later Frank is revealed as Bill's partner. Most would only make the connection during a second playthrough.

That I found as well.

They actually animated Ellie picking up Sam's toy off the floor in the toy store. She won't do it if you're looking at her, though. Some quick camera work and slowed video showing it exists on the internet, though.

That is amazing. That game is amazing.

I don't know anything about the technical or design reasons, but I do know that if we'd had to have the Grimoire written to go on the disc with the game proper, it likely would've been cut. The Grimoire as it stands was mostly written and edited in one crazy sprint very close to launch.

The more I think about it, the more I love the library in the tower idea. Someone else may have mentioned it before, but it would be really cool.

With mixed success, I've tried to recruit guardians of similar rank in the tower. A library would add another variable. One could assume that any guardians in the library care about the narrative, and those are the players I want to play with.