I think the 'Light' stat on armour screws everything up. I think they should get rid of it.

It's not optional, it's not 'sideways advancement', it's not optimisation, it's not cool situational perks. More light increases your level, and being a higher level makes you strictly more powerful in PvE and Iron Banner. I like PvE a lot, and I enjoyed Iron Banner in the Beta, so Light is the absolutely number 1 priority stat for an Armour piece above all else.

My fully-upgraded Level 20 Rare armour pieces? Absolutely useless to me within a week: not enough Light. Only Legendaries or Exotics will do now. I've broken them all down for Sapphire Wire to feed the voracious appetite of my Legendary Armour pieces. But, I'm still hurting for Sapphire Wire and all I have left are my 4 Legendaries and 1 Exotic armour piece!

To level-up now - which is what you're really doing - you can no longer simply play whatever you want and just pick up XP along the way. You have to go out of your way to get the resources required: Helium Filaments, Spirit Bloom, Relic Iron, Spinmetal and, the big one, Ascendant Shards.

To get the first four, you'll have to run around in circles for hours on each of the four planets, finding and opening chests and holding Square on pseudo-randomly placed resource nodes. You have to go all gatherer on it. There is absolutely no other way to get them and that sucks because I'm more of a hunter. Even my class is called that! Exploring off the beaten path and finding cool stuff is fine in itself, but it's become a requirement to even stand a chance at the I'm-told-it's-really-cool Vault of Glass. I feel cock-blocked by this system.

Ascendant Shards? You might occasionally get a few from RNGesus, but the main way seems to be 24+ on the Daily Heroic Story Mission and First-Gold-Tier-Public-Events-Per-Day. Daily Heroic rewards are split between the Shards and the Energy (for Legendary+ weapons) and Public Event rewards include several other things. So reliability isn't great, and you're very held back from how much you can earn.

Oh, you might earn 11 from the Weekly Nightfall Strike? Sorry, grind the other stuff first so you can get to 28 to even stand a chance.

It's messed up, man. I don't think it really makes the game any better. Rather than being 'unoptimised' in your progression if you just do what you like, you're actually, actively prevented from progressing. I've got to 27 now with my Hunter, so you might think it's OK. But I want more than 1 set of armour focused on Intellect and Discipline. Maybe I want a set on Strength and Intellect for a close-range Bladedancing Ninja? I want a Warlock and Titan too. So, I'll have to do it all over again... and again, and again...

TL/DR: Cody was right, the grind sucks.

At least shooting aliens in the face is still fun.

On the semi-bright side, you can get a bunch of materials with your high level character to gift to your new character once they reach 20?

On the semi-bright side, you can get a bunch of materials with your high level character to gift to your new character once they reach 20?

My Titan (Awoken Female) already has a Legendary Gauntlet and Exotic Chest piece waiting for her.

:/

Yeah, see I just hit 20 yesterday, and without the internets, I would have no idea what I was supposed to be doing to level up. I'm still not sure I fully understand it, and it doesn't seem obvious in-game. Really poor job of letting me know, anyway. I do enjoy the shooting other things part of it, but I can see where this could get old really quickly. Have not tried my hand in the Crucible yet, and have done a couple of strikes, which seem fun and challenging. Not sure about this whole grinding-for-gear thing, though.

Yeah, see I just hit 20 yesterday, and without the internets, ...

*!* WAT?

Destiny Online only ≠ Without Internet

I'm pretty sure they popped up a full screen dialog box detailing that you've reached level 20 and now you increase your character level with light. Similar to the ones telling you about the Strike playlist and the Vault of Glass.

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Yes, I saw said popups. So I now want to play these raids that everyone talks about, but I'm not a high enough level. And now I can only level up if I play in the strike or crucible playlists, to get light? I was given two motes of light, what the heck do I do with them? Figuring out what I'm supposed to do to have fun is so much work.

Yes, I saw said popups. So I now want to play these raids that everyone talks about, but I'm not a high enough level. And now I can only level up if I play in the strike or crucible playlists, to get light? I was given two motes of light, what the heck do I do with them? Figuring out what I'm supposed to do to have fun is so much work.

This is (quite understandably) confusing Light-giving armour with Motes of Light. The Motes are in-game currency like glimmer and Strange Coins; you can trade them with the Speaker (or Xur, I think) for items in their stock.

After hitting level 20 you increase in level by wearing pieces of Rare or Legendary armour (or Exotic if you can find a piece...) that has a Light rating. For every 20 points of Light rating in the armour pieces you wear (in total) you effectively gain one level.

The most straightforward way to get Light-giving armour is to buy them with Vanguard or Crucible marks. You can also save up Strange Coins and buy stuff from Xur, though I don't remember if his stuff has Light ratings comparable to the factions'. If you're very lucky you can get some to drop in Legendary engrams. (Maybe Rare too, but I don't recall seeing it happen.)

-- Steve also heard that Legendary and Exotic armour can have their Light levels upgraded using Ascendant Shards, but isn't certain that's the case.

If you're very lucky you can get some to drop in Legendary engrams. (Maybe Rare too, but I don't recall seeing it happen.)

You can absolutely get Legendary items from Blue Engrams. One ot my first Blue Engrams ever turned into a Legendary pair of Gauntlets (that I couldnt even think about equipping for another few levels). I realise the odds are slim as heck though.

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-- Steve also heard that Legendary and Exotic armour can have their Light levels upgraded using Ascendant Shards, but isn't certain that's the case.

100% true, according to my own experience. Have equipped un-upgraded armor, seen my light level go down, then see it go back up above where it was before once upgraded.

TL/DR: Cody was right, the grind sucks.

You're right too: you can't just play and power up as you go along normally, because the resources (Spinmetal, Helium, Spirit Bloom, and Relic Iron) are only obtainable by specifically going and gathering them from sources or chests. You can;t obtain them from kills, or missions.

I think the biggest problem with the light system, which you kind of eluded to, is that it makes the gear semi-permanent. If you get some better piece of gear, it has zero upgrades. So not only do you then have to spend the time to get the materials and exp to fully upgrade it, but when you equip it in order to do so you go down in level!

One level can be the difference between a breezy time, and a difficult time in Destiny depending on the activity.

TL/DR: Cody was right, the grind sucks.

You're right too: you can't just play and power up as you go along normally, because the resources (Spinmetal, Helium, Spirit Bloom, and Relic Iron) are only obtainable by specifically going and gathering them from sources or chests. You can;t obtain them from kills, or missions.

Were we not supposed to be gathering these in between kills and while going on missions? They're still there during those times.

Were we not supposed to be gathering these in between kills and while going on missions? They're still there during those times.

You can, but it's not exactly fluid, since you don't accumulate a large amount of materials if you're not spending a ton of time zigzagging across huge areas of map. And if you're playing coop, it's quite possible that your party members will be frustrated by your choice to go pick flowers for 15 minutes in the middle of some otherwise exciting mission.

Were we not supposed to be gathering these in between kills and while going on missions? They're still there during those times.

You can, but it's not exactly fluid, since you don't accumulate a large amount of materials if you're not spending a ton of time zigzagging across huge areas of map. And if you're playing coop, it's quite possible that your party members will be frustrated by your choice to go pick flowers for 15 minutes in the middle of some otherwise exciting mission.

15 minutes?

I don't mean trying to farm a respawning ring of loot chests, I just mean looking for them when I pass locations and taking them if they're there. Takes a few seconds. Ditto for blooms, iron and spinmetal.

I don't know what a "large amount" is I guess, but so far the only thing I've been short of is Hadronic Essence, which I'm getting by finally deciding to dismantle stuff I was hoarding but not using-- but maybe I'll run into shortages a bit later.

Were we not supposed to be gathering these in between kills and while going on missions? They're still there during those times.

You can, but it's not exactly fluid, since you don't accumulate a large amount of materials if you're not spending a ton of time zigzagging across huge areas of map. And if you're playing coop, it's quite possible that your party members will be frustrated by your choice to go pick flowers for 15 minutes in the middle of some otherwise exciting mission.

15 minutes?

I don't mean trying to farm a respawning ring of loot chests, I just mean looking for them when I pass locations and taking them if they're there. Takes a few seconds. Ditto for blooms, iron and spinmetal.

I don't know what a "large amount" is I guess, but so far the only thing I've been short of is Hadronic Essence, which I'm getting by finally deciding to dismantle stuff I was hoarding but not using-- but maybe I'll run into shortages a bit later.

You are only level 20. From here on out, take a look at the gear you start finding and see how much of the resources you need. There's no way you will have enough except for specifically going out to pick them up. Unless you have 5x 16 Relic Iron just laying around.

TL/DR: Cody was right, the grind sucks.

You're right too: you can't just play and power up as you go along normally, because the resources (Spinmetal, Helium, Spirit Bloom, and Relic Iron) are only obtainable by specifically going and gathering them from sources or chests. You can;t obtain them from kills, or missions.

Were we not supposed to be gathering these in between kills and while going on missions? They're still there during those times.

The loot chests and resource nodes only spawn in 'public' areas. Many of which contain only optional encounters you can get past fairly quickly. When on a mission, you'll spend the majority of your time in a private area (especially at higher difficulties) where such resources do not spawn. So even if you're looking, you won't find anything.

-- Steve also heard that Legendary and Exotic armour can have their Light levels upgraded using Ascendant Shards, but isn't certain that's the case.

100% true, according to my own experience. Have equipped un-upgraded armor, seen my light level go down, then see it go back up above where it was before once upgraded.

Just experienced it myself; upgraded my breastplate with my hoard of Shards and that took me just over the edge into Level 26. So I guess I'm Vault-bait this weekend... if the clansfolk are interested, that is.

-- Steve wants to level his gear up just a tad more before going in. His taste of the Vault last weekend (couldn't live long enough to open the door!) granted him a great appreciation for the difficulties ahead.

You are only level 20. From here on out, take a look at the gear you start finding and see how much of the resources you need. There's no way you will have enough except for specifically going out to pick them up. Unless you have 5x 16 Relic Iron just laying around.

Yes, I will. It will just take me longer. One day I'll look up and it'll be there.

Heck, I just turned in 150 spirit blooms for some reputation. I made no special effort to farm them, I've just been picking them up when I see them during lulls in fighting.

That's just the same perspective I'm talking about. I think the investment system is a way of providing a framework for continued play, but the goal is still to play the game, not to receive the reward. That's the path that leads to the Loot Cave.

My main issue is that I don't like my level being based on what gear I'm using. There is something inherently unsatisfying about it. Personally, 'loot' has always been my least favorite part of games like this, and this system makes obtaining it the only goal past the story missions.

I would prefer they just increase the level cap, like Borderlands or Diablo did, and put in more ability upgrades. The skill trees could stand to be more lush, anyway. And leveling could still be made challenging if there are diminishing returns on XP at higher levels.

I would prefer they just increase the level cap, like Borderlands or Diablo did, and put in more ability upgrades. The skill trees could stand to be more lush, anyway. And leveling could still be made challenging if there are diminishing returns on XP at higher levels.

Well, at least the subclass keeps upgrading by XP, which follows your examples. But yeah, having level dependent on gear makes me feel slightly short-changed, especially when it locks me out of stuff.

I would prefer they just increase the level cap, like Borderlands or Diablo did, and put in more ability upgrades. The skill trees could stand to be more lush, anyway. And leveling could still be made challenging if there are diminishing returns on XP at higher levels.

Well, at least the subclass keeps upgrading by XP, which follows your examples. But yeah, having level dependent on gear makes me feel slightly short-changed, especially when it locks me out of stuff.

To be honest, I don't really understand how the skills unlock, aside from the fact that I seem to get one per level. The interface is sort of nebulous in its presentation. I assumed that I would have to level beyond 20 to unlock skills that I don't already have by that point. Maybe it's just some of them and not others?

I'm pretty sure I'm advancing skills by just doing stuff, as opposed to gathering more Light. Given that I'm still lvl20 and have gained about 5 or 6 skills since then, I'll say I'm positive.

I'm pretty sure I'm advancing skills by just doing stuff, as opposed to gathering more Light. Given that I'm still lvl20 and have gained about 5 or 6 skills since then, I'll say I'm positive.

Yes. Over level 20, the old level progression still happens, it's just that "level ups" are accompanied by receiving a mote of light rather than a level increase.

Heck, I just turned in 150 spirit blooms for some reputation. I made no special effort to farm them, I've just been picking them up when I see them during lulls in fighting.

I'm a little baffled, then. I also "just pick them up when I see them during lulls in fighting", and I only have like 30 of them (I have 30 hours of total playtime). I pick them up when I see them. :/

To be honest, I don't really understand how the skills unlock, aside from the fact that I seem to get one per level. The interface is sort of nebulous in its presentation. I assumed that I would have to level beyond 20 to unlock skills that I don't already have by that point. Maybe it's just some of them and not others?

Subclass skills progress with experience points even after you hit the level 20 cap. XP accumulate in them "right and down"; once you've filled the top skill in a column, XP accrue to the skill immediately below it and to the top skill in the column to its right. It's important to note that XP only accrue to the subclass equipped when the XP are earned.

The same goes for weapon and armour upgrades; XP gained will go to the upgrades of gear you have equipped when you gain it in the same "right and down" pattern.

All of this is in addition to the level gains before hitting 20, or the reward of a Mote of Light after hitting 20.

-- Steve's going by personal observation, not deep-diving the code, so he'll hold off on guesses about how the XP are split and such.

Subclass skills progress with experience points even after you hit the level 20 cap. XP accumulate in them "right and down"; once you've filled the top skill in a column, XP accrue to the skill immediately below it and to the top skill in the column to its right. It's important to note that XP only accrue to the subclass equipped when the XP are earned.

The same goes for weapon and armour upgrades; XP gained will go to the upgrades of gear you have equipped when you gain it in the same "right and down" pattern.

All of this is in addition to the level gains before hitting 20, or the reward of a Mote of Light after hitting 20.

-- Steve's going by personal observation, not deep-diving the code, so he'll hold off on guesses about how the XP are split and such.

Good to know. I was worried I couldn't progress in skills without loot drops. Still hope they will add more to the tree later, though.

Heck, I just turned in 150 spirit blooms for some reputation. I made no special effort to farm them, I've just been picking them up when I see them during lulls in fighting.

I'm a little baffled, then. I also "just pick them up when I see them during lulls in fighting", and I only have like 30 of them (I have 30 hours of total playtime). I pick them up when I see them. :/

Watch Narcogen and Blackstar's let's play Destiny videos. At the pace they play, I can totally understand him having 100+ Spirit bloom. Still, trading them is was a sucker move man. You'll wish you had them later when it comes time to upgrade armor and weapons.

Still, trading them is was a sucker move man. You'll wish you had them later when it comes time to upgrade armor and weapons.

Depends upon the gear; I'm two armour pieces away from having all Legendary/Exotic gear equipped, and so far none of my stuff needs Spirit Bloom. I dismantled the one weapon that needed Relic Iron, and only The Comedian (Legendary shotgun that does Void damage, at last!) needs Spinmetal. It's mainly Helium Threads I need, hence all those patrols of the Moon in my record.

-- Steve traded in 50 of those once early in the game; not a big sacrifice seeing that he needs about 300 in total (so far).

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