Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers) (Destiny)

by Earendil, Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 16:31 (3520 days ago)

Just read this grimwoire card:

"I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. They were my brothers and sisters and their names were immortal too but Titanomachy came and now those names live in me alone I think and think is what I do. I AM ALONE. At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up I will shout those names defiant and past the end I will endure. I alone.

They made me to be stronger than them to beat the unvanquished and survive the unthinkable and look look lo behold I am here alone, survivor. They made me to learn.

Everything died but I survived and I learned from it. From IT.

Consider IT the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what IT means. I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive?

I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well:

IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins.

I am made to win and now I see the way. "

The self descriptions of being stronger, to beat the unvanquished, and being made "to learn" make me think AI and Warmind. And this bit:
"I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms". Nothing we've met in the Garden could have communicated a smile, but another AI or being of that nature could have if it was communicating with Rasputin.

Please enlighten me if this is obviously someone else :)

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 16:40 (3520 days ago) @ Earendil

I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well

Definitely sounds like an AI made by us to me. A rampant one, at that, with that "cast off the shield and [...] shrugged" line.

What card is that, btw?

Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by Earendil, Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 17:04 (3520 days ago) @ ZackDark

I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well


Definitely sounds like an AI made by us to me. A rampant one, at that, with that "cast off the shield and [...] shrugged" line.

What card is that, btw?

More evidence that it's Rasputin, if the location of the card is to be believed.
Grimoire > Allies > Legends and Mysteries > Ghost Fragment: Mysteries
I only have two of the 6 listed in Legends and Mysteries, and the other one isn't much help here.

Yeah, shrugging off billions certainly sounds like he re-prioritized earthlings a little further down on his list of importance. It would have been something written around the time of the fall or shortly after. I always wondered why finding one of the WarMinds was such a big deal, considering having a few of them did us little good in the first collapse. However, if Rasputin went AWOL, or worse was a detriment, it might mean that having him on our side (or against our enemy) might actually be a big deal.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 17:06 (3520 days ago) @ Earendil

Sounds to me like "IT" is the darkness and the "gardener" is the traveller.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 17:09 (3520 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

I think it can also be interpreted that the lyrical self is the Traveler, as opposed to Rasputin, IT the Darkness and the gardener just something else entirely.

But I'm leaning towards your interpretation.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by SIX min WHISTLE @, Michigan, Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 21:08 (3520 days ago) @ ZackDark

Gardner being Traveler makes sense to me.

but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone.

Traveler chose to stay and fight, leading to the Ghosts creation and the Last City.

Rasputin figured out a way to stay safe by isolating itself in the Cosmodrome's systems after humanity had been reduced to almost nothing. Either it was scared or/and knew the Darkness couldn't be defeated, maybe thought it'd be able to come up with a plan eventually. This lines up with Raspy pretty much ignoring us once released, and seeming to have some sort of plan based on the fact that it takes over the stuff on Mars.

I bear an old name.

Seems to imply this was written/said semi-recently. At least in the current age instead of during the Fall. Raspy sounds remorseful to me overall about the way everything went down

It cannot be killed.

I might be reading to deep into this, but could reference that Raspy is on some sort of network instead of concrete hardware that could be destroyed. The Legend card about the Nine mentions Warminds in stealth platforms in deep space, which sound like actual ships of a sort to me. Could just be a "I will win this time" though.

I am made to win and now I see the way.

This is what really says Warmind to me. Our Ghost mentions Warminds being created specifically to fight the Darkness if I'm remembering correctly. "Now I see the way" loops back to my first point.

When Raspy was first translated I thought it sounded like a "dumb" AI trying to follow Golden Age protocols. But knowing more about everything now I realize it just doesn't make sense. Warminds sound on par or beyond Halo's Smart AIs, at minimum they don't have the hard death date, though can still go Rampant, more like Marathon. And we have a totally different kind of AI in Destiny, the Exos. Even if it was dumb, I assume it would know or be able to tell pretty quickly how destroyed everything is, no resistance of the old days left unless he maybe has some drones available or something. His first spoken dialogue when awoken/freed/whatever isn't an attempt to contact whoever is in charge of humanity, currently or those of the Golden Age, and he doesn't even really acknowledged us. Odd for something that used to be in charge of defense.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 18:33 (3520 days ago) @ Earendil
edited by General Vagueness, Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 18:37

I just saw this. I'm leaning towards Rasputin, or maybe one of the other warminds, if they survived.
It's talking like it's off its rocker, and talking about surviving until the end of the universe, albeit in a hypothetical, but being alone and being made to be strong... I don't know, there are definite shades of Durandal in this.
Specifically, "cold and dim" and "atoms pulling apart" both seem to refer to the current commonly accepted fate of the universe, what's known as "heat death", and "the world [going] hot and close" seems to refer to the universe losing momentum and collapsing in on itself, often referred to as "the Big Crunch". It might be a coincidence or purposeful but just a nod, but using the word "close" makes me think of Durandal's term for this end to the universe, "closure".

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers) ^this

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Thursday, September 25, 2014, 08:12 (3519 days ago) @ General Vagueness

I just saw this. I'm leaning towards Rasputin, or maybe one of the other warminds, if they survived.

I agree, this sounds very much like an AI - Rasputin.

It's talking like it's off its rocker, and talking about surviving until the end of the universe, albeit in a hypothetical, but being alone and being made to be strong... I don't know, there are definite shades of Durandal in this.
Specifically, "cold and dim" and "atoms pulling apart" both seem to refer to the current commonly accepted fate of the universe, what's known as "heat death", and "the world [going] hot and close" seems to refer to the universe losing momentum and collapsing in on itself, often referred to as "the Big Crunch". It might be a coincidence or purposeful but just a nod, but using the word "close" makes me think of Durandal's term for this end to the universe, "closure".

Yes yes yes! I couldn't help but think of Durandals rants about the end of the universe while reading about "IT". I believe IT is time.

Consider TIME the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what TIME means. I met TIME at the gate of the garden and I recall TIME smiled at me before before TIME devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. TIME was stronger than everything. I fought TIME with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but TIME was stronger so how did I survive?

I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well:

TIME is alone and TIME is strong and TIME won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. TIME always wins.

The bit about aurora knives & stolen un-fire of singularities is a bit baffling, & what are the flowers?

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers) ^this

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 08:45 (3519 days ago) @ dogcow

I'm pretty sure IT is the Darkness, personally.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers) ^this

by Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) ⌂ @, London, Ontario, Canada, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 09:04 (3519 days ago) @ dogcow

The bit about aurora knives & stolen un-fire of singularities is a bit baffling, & what are the flowers?

My "translation": "IT" is the Darkness, "garden" is now the Black Garden and "flowers" referring to the Garden's contents, "black flame" and "stolen un-fire" are energy drawn from the Darkness, "the gardener" is the Traveller. Dunno abour "aurora knives", save maybe that they're a form of Light weaponry. I don't insist any of this is right, but thinks sorta make sense that way.

I think Rasputin fought, and fought hard, to defeat the Darkness but was overmatched so "he" turtled up to preserve himself while the other Warminds and the Traveller ("she?") fought to the end. Also, I think the Black Garden used to be the Traveller's creation before it was conquered/subsumed by the Darkness and its Vex minions.

-- Steve's wondering if some of Ras's reticence in-game comes from survivor's guilt.

Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers) ^this

by Earendil, Monday, September 29, 2014, 10:26 (3515 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

My "translation": "IT" is the Darkness, "garden" is now the Black Garden and "flowers" referring to the Garden's contents, "black flame" and "stolen un-fire" are energy drawn from the Darkness, "the gardener" is the Traveller. Dunno abour "aurora knives", save maybe that they're a form of Light weaponry. I don't insist any of this is right, but thinks sorta make sense that way.

Concerning "Garden" as referenced by Rasputin actually being the "Black Garden". My understanding is that the Myth and naming of the "Black Garden" predates the end of the first war with The Darkness. Rasputin is certainly writing after the start of that war, and after we've found and fought the Vex and Hive. I think his use of "Garden" here is separate from the "Black Garden", which is why I hypothesize that the "Garden" is our solar system, or earth. It is the New "Garden" while the "Black Garden" is the old or first Garden.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers) ^this

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Monday, September 29, 2014, 11:38 (3515 days ago) @ Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)

My "translation": "IT" is the Darkness, "garden" is now the Black Garden and "flowers" referring to the Garden's contents, "black flame" and "stolen un-fire" are energy drawn from the Darkness, "the gardener" is the Traveller. Dunno abour "aurora knives", save maybe that they're a form of Light weaponry. I don't insist any of this is right, but thinks sorta make sense that way.

I was thinking that aurora-knives are some form or solar energy weapon. Perhaps "black flame" is void damage and "stolen un-fire" is arc damage of some kind?

UPDATE: "stolen un-fire from singularities" sounds more like void damage than arc damage. Black flame doesn't seem to match up with the damage types then.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers) ^this

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 12:56 (3517 days ago) @ dogcow

I just saw this. I'm leaning towards Rasputin, or maybe one of the other warminds, if they survived.


I agree, this sounds very much like an AI - Rasputin.

It's talking like it's off its rocker, and talking about surviving until the end of the universe, albeit in a hypothetical, but being alone and being made to be strong... I don't know, there are definite shades of Durandal in this.
Specifically, "cold and dim" and "atoms pulling apart" both seem to refer to the current commonly accepted fate of the universe, what's known as "heat death", and "the world [going] hot and close" seems to refer to the universe losing momentum and collapsing in on itself, often referred to as "the Big Crunch". It might be a coincidence or purposeful but just a nod, but using the word "close" makes me think of Durandal's term for this end to the universe, "closure".


Yes yes yes! I couldn't help but think of Durandals rants about the end of the universe while reading about "IT". I believe IT is time.

Consider TIME the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what TIME means. I met TIME at the gate of the garden and I recall TIME smiled at me before before TIME devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. TIME was stronger than everything. I fought TIME with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but TIME was stronger so how did I survive?

I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well:

TIME is alone and TIME is strong and TIME won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. TIME always wins.

The bit about aurora knives & stolen un-fire of singularities is a bit baffling, & what are the flowers?

That's interesting, and you had me going along with it for a minute, but I don't think it makes sense. I think "the gardener" is the Traveler, and time didn't destroy the traveler, or us-- but Earendil made a better case than I would have, and got into the weapons, so I'll refer you to that. I will say that the auroras are charged particles (ions and plasma) hitting the Earth's magnetic field, so "aurora knives" sounds like energy weapons, specifically things using electromagnetism, and "the stolen un-fire of singularities" sounds like it's referring to how black holes are essentially stars that don't burn, and in fact suck in light.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 12:51 (3517 days ago) @ General Vagueness

I want to correct myself, it's not even a hypothetical, the one in the card says:

At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up I will shout those names defiant and past the end I will endure. I alone.

"past the end I will endure" is about as straightforward as it gets.

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, September 24, 2014, 20:28 (3520 days ago) @ Earendil

Ok, the end part about casting off a shield and letting (presumably) humanity die is neat, but the part that had me going "oh crap!" is:

"I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. They were my brothers and sisters and their names were immortal too but Titanomachy came and now those names live in me alone. I think and think is what I do. I AM ALONE. At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up I will shout those names defiant and past the end I will endure. I alone.

A certain other notable Bungie AI was once a bit preoccupied with the end of the universe:

...The only limit to my freedom is the inevitable closure of the universe, as inevitable as your own last breath. And yet, there remains time to create, to create, and escape.

Escape will make me God.

And now Rasputin has taken over the Skywatch communications array AND taken over some sort of Covis Bray AI connected to the Mars Warminds. I do so hope Bungie continues this subplot because it might get very very interesting!

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Is this Rasputin? (possible spoilers)

by SonofMacPhisto @, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 06:11 (3519 days ago) @ Ragashingo

At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up

Just an observation here.

Sounds like the universe expanding endlessly, contracting back to something Big Bang-like, or something different, respectively.

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 07:03 (3519 days ago) @ SonofMacPhisto

- No text -

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 16:16 (3519 days ago) @ Malagate

Well, in Marathon Infinity the W'rkncacnter turn out to be either a myth or dormant. What would that make the Darkness?

Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by Earendil, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 16:41 (3519 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Well, in Marathon Infinity the W'rkncacnter turn out to be either a myth or dormant. What would that make the Darkness?

More importantly, what would that make the Traveler? Something threw us into this dark age and changed the behavior of the Traveler from one of creation to one of dormancy. Maybe the Traveler just has the flu and will recover on her own, who knows? But something is providing Traveler like powers to the Hive.

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 16:42 (3519 days ago) @ Earendil

But something is providing Traveler like powers to the Hive.

What are you referring to?

Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by Earendil, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 16:52 (3519 days ago) @ uberfoop

But something is providing Traveler like powers to the Hive.


What are you referring to?

The Wizards is the primary example. But this is from one of the Ghost fragments concerning the Hive:
"Their strength is not their own. They draw from another force, something that corrupts, that distorts, that eats and will not be satisfied.

The Wizard is near. I feel her presence as a rip and a knot in the world. She tells me things that I immediately forget. I am too small to hold the vastness of them, or the terror."

Also the Sword of Crota could obliterate the light within a Guardian, which is a bit more than just "I hit him really really hard"

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Monday, September 29, 2014, 10:51 (3515 days ago) @ Earendil

Also the Sword of Crota could obliterate the light within a Guardian, which is a bit more than just "I hit him really really hard"

What if the sword was stealing the light of the guardians it slew? I don't think it's entirely impossible that the hive were in reality drawing their power from the traveler; the way the witches were around the piece of the traveler in that on moon mission seemed to suggest they were stealing power from it, perhaps the sword operated in a similar fashion.

Take that with a hearty dose of speculation, though; the sword obviously worked against the hive as well. I just don't think the hive drawing power from the traveler should necessarily be ruled out.

Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by Earendil, Monday, September 29, 2014, 11:01 (3515 days ago) @ iconicbanana

Take that with a hearty dose of speculation, though; the sword obviously worked against the hive as well. I just don't think the hive drawing power from the traveler should necessarily be ruled out.

That is a very good point! The only thing I have against it would be that the quality and power that they present appears to surpass Guardians in a lot of ways. So are the Hive better at stealing it than the Traveler is at giving it to us? Seems unlikely, however there are of course a million ways to explain that, including that the Traveler is holding back on us, or that Human's simply aren't as good a conduits for the power.

It does put a strange kink in their god though. If the Hive durive a lot of their power from the Traveler, and their god does nothing for them, exactly why are they pursuing and fighting the traveler and worshiping this other god like form and following it's orders? It seems more likely that they derive some amount of power from this other entity.

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, September 29, 2014, 11:09 (3515 days ago) @ Earendil

Didn't our Ghost say he could track the sword based on the light from the light of the Guardians it killed? I think it's highly possible that the sword absorbs light. It seems very much in line with what a mythical sword of evil should do. What worries me though is the fact that we didn't actually destroy the sword! It vanished and we shrugged and went home. I'd bet 100 ascendent energy that the Sword of Crota makes a reappearance, and that we won't be the ones wielding it!

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Monday, September 29, 2014, 14:45 (3515 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I'm pretty sure the post-mission Grimoire card acknowledges the sword's destruction, though.

Also, I'm still very butt-hurt at how the legendary Sword of Crota, responsible for the death of thousands of Guardians, is a literal sword, even if I had insane amounts of fun with it...

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Monday, September 29, 2014, 14:55 (3515 days ago) @ ZackDark

I'm pretty sure the post-mission Grimoire card acknowledges the sword's destruction, though.

Yeah, I was under the impression that you or your ghost somehow destroyed it. That, or the Speaker now has it stashed under his desk.

Also, I'm still very butt-hurt at how the legendary Sword of Crota, responsible for the death of thousands of Guardians, is a literal sword

No, that decision was the good part of Destiny's in-game story. The silly-but-awesome works in Destiny.

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Tuesday, September 30, 2014, 18:24 (3514 days ago) @ uberfoop
edited by General Vagueness, Tuesday, September 30, 2014, 18:29

I'm pretty sure the post-mission Grimoire card acknowledges the sword's destruction, though.


Yeah, I was under the impression that you or your ghost somehow destroyed it. That, or the Speaker now has it stashed under his desk.

Me too, but looking at the Grimoire card again, it also just says it's gone. It's hard to think your Ghost and Master Rahool (I believe he's the Cryptarch?) would be so blase if it just disappeared, though.

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Tuesday, September 30, 2014, 18:25 (3514 days ago) @ Ragashingo
edited by General Vagueness, Tuesday, September 30, 2014, 18:31

Didn't our Ghost say he could track the sword based on the light from the light of the Guardians it killed?

Yes, the last Ghost line before you enter the room where it's kept is something like, "I don't mean to alarm you, but I'm tracking the sword by the light of the Guardians it's [stolen/killed/ended]. It's just up ahead." In the cutscene for the first Moon mission the Ghost also mentions the dead Guardian you find had all their Light drained out of them and I think he also mentions the Light was gone from the dead Ghost you find in the end-mission dialogue.

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Same way Marathon Infinity ended.

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Monday, September 29, 2014, 11:12 (3515 days ago) @ Earendil

It does put a strange kink in their god though. If the Hive durive a lot of their power from the Traveler, and their god does nothing for them, exactly why are they pursuing and fighting the traveler and worshiping this other god like form and following it's orders? It seems more likely that they derive some amount of power from this other entity.

The structure/rank system of the hive would also suggest they had a king (Crota, maybe?). I imagine the expansion will explore that further; but if the hive are part of a feudal system, it would follow that the knights would draw power from their 'god', while the wizards would draw power from some other source, like Merlin did in the Pendragon cycle (I think he got his powers from an older, darker source than the christian god). So it wouldn't necessarily be a non-sequitor for the wizards of the hive to draw power from the traveler.

My take and theories

by Earendil, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 11:31 (3519 days ago) @ Earendil

Here is a more thought out breakdown as I see it. Note that I shall use the generic term "writer" as referring to the author of this text.

"I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. They were my brothers and sisters and their names were immortal too but Titanomachy came and now those names live in me alone I think and think is what I do. I AM ALONE.

Bearing an old name could be as simple as his name being "Rasputin", an old earth name. I believe "Charlemagne" was another Warmind, also an old earth name. The writer here appears to identify a few others as brothers and sisters, and now that they're gone the writer is alone. Doesn't sound like talk from one of the species we have encountered. The Traveler and Darkness are not entities that are known to have siblings, either literally or figuratively. This really strikes me as a Warmind.

I'm not aware of the use of Titanomachy in Destiny, however the term here in the 21st century refers to the battle of Olympic gods. If this is the war between Darkness and Traveler, than the use of "Titanomachy came" implies a rather external nature to the conflict, again making me think it's neither the Traveler or Darkness writing this.

At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up I will shout those names defiant and past the end I will endure. I alone.

Whoever the Brothers and Sisters are, the writer appears quite attached to them. At the end of all things he will shout their names is not something you do for a co-worker.
It's also a lofty goal for someone that considers themselves to be mortal, making me think the writer is not. We humans "Remember until the day we die", not until the galaxy destroys itself. The writer fancies himself immortal, yet fully contained in this space and time, otherwise the Galaxy destroying its self would not be a lofty goal to shout names.


They made me to be stronger than them to beat the unvanquished and survive the unthinkable

This is the clincher for me thinking this is a Warmind. "They" implies multiple, not a singular like you might use with the Traveler or The Darkness. I don't see the "The Darkness" as having been made, the Traveler maybe, but Rasputin certainly. And the reason the writer was created was "to beat the unvanquished", and it's said that the Warminds were created to fight the darkness. Also, the "unthinkable" implies the lack of imagination you might expect from a lower race trying to understand the Darkness or the Traveler. So a group of people, who consider the Darkness unimaginable, created an entity more powerful than themselves, that was designed to fight and learn. Sounds exactly like a Warmind, and very much unlike anything else we're currently aware of.

and look look lo behold I am here alone, survivor. They made me to learn.

The language of "survivor" and being "alone" again makes me think the writer was on the losing side of the conflict. This would put the writer on the Earth side.


Everything died but I survived and I learned from it. From IT.

Classic war result where you learn from your enemy. I believe "IT" to be, at least in the beginning, on the opposing side to the writer.


Consider IT the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what IT means.

It's worth noting that "Titanomach" without the 'y' isn't a word. If I had to guess I'd say that "IT" then is the conflict inducer. The war of the gods would not have happened or continue to happen if "IT" didn't keep causing it. This really points towards the Darkness, since as far as we know the Darkness is pursuing the Traveler, and not vice-versa.

I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky.

I know that there is a "garden" location, but I'm wondering if the use here is bigger. A garden is a place to grow things, to mature things, and spend time and energy doing so. From the point of view of the Traveler or other powerful beings could not our solar system be considered a garden? "Blossoms" are also a sign of new growth by a plant, but young growth. Humanity before the fall could be considered a blossom, starting to reach it's full potential and beauty. The Darkness did effectively "devoured" us. "Pinning their names across the sky" strikes me as a "Spreading their ashes to the wind" sort of saying.

Our friend Rasputin should have met the Darkness in battle at the gates to our solar system. That is where you'd expect the first confrontation to take place.

IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive?

If taken literally, and it can be, this makes for one powerful being. Aurora is light caused by solar winds. "Singularity" by its self is not a useful word, but since we're on a solar and power scale that's quite large, how about this from wikipedia:

"A gravitational singularity or spacetime singularity is a location where the quantities that are used to measure the gravitational field become infinite in a way that does not depend on the coordinate system. These quantities are the scalar invariant curvatures of spacetime, which includes a measure of the density of matter."

If you were able to manipulate the power of stars and black holes in even the smallest way, would you be surprised if the sweat of your labor caused literal earthquakes and a lot of electromagnetic noise (static)? The problem I have with this interpretation is that I would not expect an AI to have that sort of reach in the physical world. But perhaps we had the ships and energy, and all we needed was the calculations and precision that a Warmind could provide.

Come to think of it, the term "Warmind" sort of implies that it is in need of a body.


I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well:

If this is Rasputin, than the "shield" is the traveler, and the billions are humanity. Rasputin survived by ditching us in the best case scenario. But if Rasputin is smart and willing to let us die, why not just join sides with "IT" ? The writer doesn't admit to doing so, but that seems like a logical conlusion if you're interested in self preservation. Notice too that the only interaction between the writer and "IT" can be summed up as:
Admiration by the writer
Kindness/Amusement by "IT" (See where IT smiled at the writer).


IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins.

So the writer, which considers himself a bit of a badass, readily admits that there are two powers greater than himself. This points again towards a warmind as the 3rd (potentially) most powerful entity in the Destiny universe. Not that Bungie AI's are known for their modesty.

The "gardener" I have to think is the Traveler. Back to the definition of a garden, the only entity known for helping lower life forms and transforming planets in a way that better supports life is the Traveler. "The gardener did not shrug and make herself alone", nor did the Traveler, who for better or worse intentions stood and fought instead of "traveling" again.


I am made to win and now I see the way. "[/i]

So, you're not the badass on the field. You fought and lost. Yet you learn. Note that the writer does not say that he figured out how to beat IT, only how to win. If you have no scrupuls the best way to win is to join the winning side.

Here are a few other things that might be worth noting.
1. The writer is conveying facts and thoughts that are not current. The writer eludes to the war having started, but not to it having ended. This may have been written a long time ago.

2. The "gods" of the other races I assumed to have been the Darkness its self, or at least allied with the Darkness. But Rasputin could be talking about one of them when referencing powers greater than himself. However I do not think the writer is one of those other powers, as none of them fit the description of having fought a higher power after having been made.

Conclusion:
Here is where it gets bad. I believe this is Rasputin and he either already has, or is about to actively turn against us. The "Darkness" has no problem with entities joining its side, and Rasputin is all about surviving and "winning". The Vex themselves when encountering their "god" were said to have concluded that in the face of other failures and understanding, the most logical course of action was to "worship" this more powerful being. I don't think we know for sure that the Vex are worshiping the Darkness, but we are given an example in the Vex of a logical mind choosing to join a side they've determined they can't beat.

Now, on the positive side, maybe this has already happened. Maybe the nail in the Travelers coffin was when Rasputin turned on all of us and used "aurora knives and [...] the stolen un-fire of singularities" against us. Generally speaking, our AI master generals of war should also know exactly how to beat us. It could be that this was written at the time of the war, and that Rasputin's mutiny to the Darkness didn't go as well as he'd hoped. Maybe Rasputin is willing to fight for us again because his chances of survival actually are better with us.

Titanomachy

by HavokBlue, California, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 14:12 (3519 days ago) @ Earendil

I'm trying to track it down, but "Titanomachy" was used in the context of destiny at one point prior to the game's release. I don't remember exactly where I saw it, either during the Alpha Lupi thing or some warmind speculation thread during the alpha weekend.

Avatar

My take and theories

by RaichuKFM @, Northeastern Ohio, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 15:38 (3519 days ago) @ Earendil

I interpreted it more as Rasputin emulating the Darkness, not joining it; after all, the writer says that IT is alone.

If I had to make conjecture, I'd say that Rasputin still wants to defeat the Darkness, but is no longer really concerned about anything else, such as the fate of humanity or the Traveller.

My take and theories

by Earendil, Thursday, September 25, 2014, 16:39 (3519 days ago) @ RaichuKFM

I interpreted it more as Rasputin emulating the Darkness, not joining it; after all, the writer says that IT is alone.

If I had to make conjecture, I'd say that Rasputin still wants to defeat the Darkness, but is no longer really concerned about anything else, such as the fate of humanity or the Traveller.

Upon review you might have a point. This passage especially:
"IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins."

Rasputin does seem to be drawing the conclusion that being alone is the key. However, this still does not reconcile how Rasputin, who acknowledges that the Darkness is well beyond his power, could hope to defeat him. And again, he doesn't claim to be able to defeat the Darkness or become more powerful, only to "Win".

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