What are your expectations for gunplay?

by SPQR Praetor, Friday, March 01, 2013, 14:30 (4086 days ago)

I'm very curious to see how Bungie has chosen to develop the shooting mechanics of the game. It has been confirmed that "ADS" will be featured but beyond that, there isn't much to go on. I'm going to talk(probably a lot and in a very confusing manner) about what I think the mechanics will be but I'd really like to get the community's opinion!

I'd first like to define a few things to create a foundation for discussion and to add some clarity to the conversation. Use the things I've outlined below to discus what you think will/wont appear.


The hardware:

ADS: My brief tour of wiki didn't lead me to any formal or universally accepted treatments of FPS mechanics but I believe I have a pretty good grasp on the gist: The player can increase accuracy(visually, through decreased recoil, etc) by utilizing the weapons sights.

Some games, a la Ghost Recon:Future Soldier, have three states of aiming:
(1) No aim. No or uncontrolled target reticule. High recoil.
(2) Half-aim/weapon raised. Increased accuracy, decreased recoil. Limited field of vision. Useful target reticule.
(3) Aim-Down-Sights. Iron-sights or attached optics consume a large portion of the player's field of vision. Highest accuracy, lowest recoil. Often includes a "scope in" or "scope out" time delay. Reduced movement speed. May include "breathing" effects.

Arcade-Style: If I'm not mistaken (please don't hate me), this is the term for the style of play featured in the Halo franchise. Weapons with out optics do not feature an ability to aim. Weapons with optics can aim, usually with perfect accuracy. "Sniper" weapons may feature a breathing/steadying mechanic. The amount one shoots, depending on the weapon, will affect the fixed target reticule which itself may vary in size to indicate increased recoil and decreased hit percentage or accuracy.


Movement and Environment:

Every shooter chooses the extent to which its players are able to manipulate their avatars through the environment(although none of these choices are made under the same circumstances that concern Destiny. An important question to be revisited later). I've created the following list to rank one's fluidity in a game.

1: Walking. Running. Jump. Crouch. (Standard)
2: Standard. Prone. Crouch(stationary). Crouch(movement). Variable walk/run speeds. Diving/sliding/crouch-running/cover-sliding. Specific, often contextual, climbing, dropping, etc.
3: Standard. Most or all of category 2. General ability to climb or otherwise fluidly interact with the environment. May include dynamic environments.
Other: Ussain Bolt-mobile. Often a specific and central feature of the game.

The ability of a character to move is very much attached to the game's cover system. Using the above framework, example games include:
1: Halo
(1.5: Call of Duty)
2: Battlefield 3
(2.5: Killzone 4, Ghost Recon:Future Solider, Crysis 2)
3: Metal Gear Solid 4
Other: Vanquish, Dark Void, Watch_Dogs

Last but not least, there is level design. Based upon the vision for the game and the combination of the previous factors, level design will dictate gameplay. Dur. How will this factor into an MMOish game? I have no idea but I'd like to. Obviously the world of Destiny is open enough for vehicles which allows for roaming or patrolling enemies such as wildlife and mobs(Borderlands). The screen shots of the alleged space zombie environments also appear to be very open*, providing for a classic MMO dungeon experience where not every enemy must be engaged.

* http://www.destinyhub.net/content/46-A-scene-by-scene-analysis-of-the-PlayStation-event



Personally

, I'm a fan of creating environments that make sense with the story/atmosphere; I'm not a fan of my characters being unable to lay down. I'm often removed from the experience of the game when I wonder why these elite soldiers are running around open environments without the faintest excuse for cover; or why commanders only seem to choose fields, mezzanines, large highways and hangar bays as battle grounds. I'm also not a fan of covering 100% of the map in chest-high walls (or empty rooms with sophisticated mechanical systems which exist solely to deploy chest-high walls). I think Mass Effect has a good mix. while it is very explicitly a "cover-based" shooter, I think the genre should be regarded simply as "shooters" while anything else gets renamed "Full-on Bronson"...but I digress...

It would make me a little sad to see them stick too close to Halo with this new IP. The breadth of environments allows for a nearly endless variety of maps and zones, each of which are able to present wholly unique challenges for the players. It would be a huge loss (IMO...IMO...) to have the different maps be environmental backdrops for the exact same gameplay, especially if its simplistic.

What are your expectations for gunplay?

by Beckx, Friday, March 01, 2013, 14:41 (4086 days ago) @ SPQR Praetor


Other: Vanquish

"Other." Heh.

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What are your expectations for gunplay?

by SPQR Praetor, Friday, March 01, 2013, 14:45 (4086 days ago) @ Beckx

xD I didn't quite know how to define it.

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What are your expectations for gunplay?

by stevrrr, Friday, March 01, 2013, 14:59 (4086 days ago) @ SPQR Praetor

Hopefully they don't adopt the cover-based-shooter idea too much. I liked that, in Halo, you go to cover by just walking behind something. Although 3rd person cover makes you feel pretty cool.

Good breakdown of the options, good stuff to consider.

What are your expectations for gunplay?

by SPQR Praetor, Friday, March 01, 2013, 15:17 (4086 days ago) @ stevrrr

I agree that walking behind things is a good methodology for avoiding perforation but its the level design that gets me(and the inability to lay/stick or peak but to a lesser extent). The multiplayer maps in Halo can be excused in part as they were purpose built but I'm not sure they can get away with those things in Destiny.

Many of the places we will fight will be places where (a)people do/did live or (b)Military installations, industrial complexes, space ships. It would be rather odd to fight exclusively in 90% empty warehouses or buildings that are almost entirely empty save large, open(and empty) rooms with large, token cover.


"Coming up on the left you will see the property's main 'cavern and ramp' room. As you can see, it was built specifically so one would be able to enjoy, from a variety of heights, others enjoying others from a variety of heights. Of course the previous owners were sure to remove all seats, railings, walk-ways and other basic components to elevate the functionless aesthetic"
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What are your expectations for gunplay?

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, March 02, 2013, 11:05 (4085 days ago) @ SPQR Praetor

I agree that walking behind things is a good methodology for avoiding perforation but its the level design that gets me(and the inability to lay/stick or peak but to a lesser extent). The multiplayer maps in Halo can be excused in part as they were purpose built but I'm not sure they can get away with those things in Destiny.

The inability to... what?

"Coming up on the left you will see the property's main 'cavern and ramp' room. As you can see, it was built specifically so one would be able to enjoy, from a variety of heights, others enjoying others from a variety of heights. Of course the previous owners were sure to remove all seats, railings, walk-ways and other basic components to elevate the functionless aesthetic"

Well in Destiny we'll be exploring dead worlds that were more technologically advanced than we are at present and probably more than at the time the game takes place. Between technology beyond our understanding, looting, and the ravages of time, I could excuse a lot in level/world design. Of course, I could excuse a lot anyway because I think that's an area where it's OK to put gameplay ahead of everything else, but I think those are pretty good reasons we might encounter buildings and rooms that don't seem to make a lot of sense. An exception would be if we come across areas that clearly date to the present and don't appear to have been disturbed.
That reminds me, who else noticed the space shuttle attached to rockets in the announcement trailer? We already don't use them any more so I'm wondering what the deal is with that. Was it some kind of museum? Was it supposed to be the upcoming replacement for the space shuttle and just look really similar? Are we dealing with alternate history here, did the advancement that came before humanity was nearly wiped out happen in our past?

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What are your expectations for gunplay?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, March 02, 2013, 11:36 (4085 days ago) @ General Vagueness

Well, our space-faring abilities, along with a lot of others, was completely wiped out, so it's only natural to assume we started off about the same way NASA did, no?

Granted, on Destiny, we have access to the Traveler's tech, but it still wouldn't invalidate early experimentation with expendable boosters tech.

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What are your expectations for gunplay?

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, March 02, 2013, 15:18 (4085 days ago) @ ZackDark

Well, our space-faring abilities, along with a lot of others, was completely wiped out, so it's only natural to assume we started off about the same way NASA did, no?

The shuttle's in the middle of a field though, IIRC, and looks overgrown.

Granted, on Destiny, we have access to the Traveler's tech, but it still wouldn't invalidate early experimentation with expendable boosters tech.

I guess, but the resemblance is uncanny.

What are your expectations for gunplay?

by SPQR Praetor, Friday, March 01, 2013, 15:20 (4086 days ago) @ stevrrr

xD just to be explicitly clear, its all love from my end. I just like debate. I'm well aware there is a good chance everything I'm saying is probably wrong(at least the parts that aren't just opinion statements anyway. xD)

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What are your expectations for gunplay?

by stevrrr, Saturday, March 02, 2013, 19:14 (4085 days ago) @ SPQR Praetor

Totally. This is actually an interesting perspective on the shooter aesthetic... you could probably even extend this into a full article that tries to put different shooters in some sort of two- or three-dimensional space for key play mechanics, and if you include multiple Bungie titles in there, you could track their movement in this space over time and try to extrapolate where their next game will be.

If you decide to do that, or if you just want to watch someone talk about plasma rifles for an hour, you should check out this GDC talk by former Bungie employee Jaime Griesemer. He actually talks about a lot more than just the plasma rifle; importantly, how player movement speed impacts enemy projectile velocity decisions.

What are your expectations for gunplay?

by Reconcilliation @, Imagination Station, Sunday, March 03, 2013, 18:51 (4084 days ago) @ SPQR Praetor

My expectations:

It will play like Halo. (Complete with multiple types of enemies who all behave in different and interesting ways)
There will be a dedicated melee button.
There will be all kinds of weapons, including some very new and interesting ones (Think: Needler)
You will have a shield mechanic of some type.
There's going to be ways of using magic, but I have no idea how Bungie will integrate this well.

Traveling around the world of Destiny and the way mood is set, will be similar to ODST. Granted, minus flashbacks (probably).

Flying spacecraft will be similar to Reach. Although I really would not mind some kerbal-esque orbital mechanics.

There'll be ground vehicles, you'll probably even be able to pimp them out, I'm already nearly positive you'll be able to pimp out your spaceship based on what I've seen from concept art, obviously you can also do so with your guns and armour, even if it's just decals on them.

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