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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny (Destiny)

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 13:33 (3504 days ago)
edited by General Vagueness, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 13:59

Like the title says, this post is about my initial thoughts on Destiny.
I was putting together my initial thoughts on Destiny, and I wound up with a few categories and a few standout items, and I realized I could fit the most of the standout items into categories too and they'd look OK, so I figured I'd put everything in one categorized post. I have a few things that ended up long though and they'd be real speed bumps if I included them here, so I'm putting them in their own posts, but in the same thread, to keep conversation together.
I've been playing Destiny for about two weeks now. I haven't explored everything or finished the story, partly because of a lack of time and partly because until recently I was trying to finish another game (and moreover I wanted to finish the other game first, because it was Marathon; I decided to give it a rest until I finish Destiny's story). This of course puts certain limits on what I can get into. What can I say, this was originally supposed to be my thoughts on my first few days to a week, and posted promptly. If you want to know specifically, I've done the Earth missions, the first Moon mission, the Earth strike, five-ish games of Clash (slayer/deathmatch), a slightly higher number of games of Control (territories + slayer), a ton of Patrols in Old Russia, and one Patrol on the Moon.
(Yes, I took the title from a small video Bungie put out before Reach, and they adapted the title from a movie.)

The Good
(Things I like)

- the atmosphere is good, as I've come to expect-- I think they mostly nailed what they were going for and the world is likeable (which seems like a weird way to describe a world, but "likeable" really fits, to me)

- I like the visual design for the most part, and I can't think of anything I don't like about thesound design or the music

- it's fun; it's a fun game to play, the shooting is generally fun, the other attacks are fun, the enemies mostly aren't anything special but they're pretty good; I'm not bored, and I don't see myself getting bored for quite some time

The Iffy
(Things that I have issues with but am not comfortable calling bad)

- I've said since I found out about it that the Grimoire should be available in the game; seeing how good most of it is, I'm even more nonplussed

- I have major issues with the lack of interaction, but it seems from the recent developer notes that Bungie wants to have more and has plans in that area and is even working towards implementing them, so I'll re-evaluate that once the changes have been made

- enemies spawn really quickly, really often, really nearby-- I think a high spawning rate is good for the type of game this is and how it's set up, but this is ridiculous, or bordering on ridiculous; my main issue is it's very rare to feel like you've actually cleared out an area of any real size, and that majorly takes away from any feeling of accomplishment

- related to the last point, ammo despawns after a fairly low amount of time and/or distance from where and when it was dropped-- 90% of the time this isn't an issue; I think I have yet to completely run out of ammo for my primary, and have only run out of ammo for my secondary when I used it a lot, mostly in public events-- it can get annoying for special ammo though, and it underscores the fact that most of the time you don't need any given ammo drop because you'll get another one in less than three minutes

- the Crucible-- it seems like it has major issues, but I haven't played it a ton and I'm not that leveled up (and I don't know how much those things should matter), so I'll see what I think of it after another month or two

- the human male's dance sucks, IMHO, I want my character to look like me, not dance like me

The Bad
(Things I dislike)

- there are too many little mechanical and electronic sound effects in Ghost dialogue for my liking, they can get distracting and sometimes they make it hard to understand what the Ghost is saying

- all or most of the display issues noted in my beta issues post are still there-- things appearing or disappearing or getting better/worse textures, mostly, though there's also that hole in the fallen-over sign in the area where you first start that looks like someone messed up the transparency and there are some stubby branches that aren't actually attached to their tree trunks

- two of the green eye colors for humans seem to be switched around, the brightest one shows up dark when applied to the eyes and a darker one is brighter

- in the sub-screen where you pick your control layout, the top area of the screen and your Guardian card (or whatever you call it) make it hard or impossible to see what the triggers and bumpers do, depending on the exact positioning of the cursor

- why can't we use any alien weapons? I'm pretty sure it could only improve the experience

The Ugly
(Things that I really dislike)

- there are doorways that have invisible barriers in them; they were in the beta too, but in the beta, I assumed they were spawn areas or something, and that in the final game they would let you into them or remove them or at least close them off when they weren't being used, but they're still there; they're not even out of the way, several are a few meters from doors you have to go through, but have invisible barriers in them... WTF? like really, what the actual fuck, guys?

- all the NPCs in the Tower are still too quiet, I rarely understand what they're saying, even if I turn my TV up two or four notches

- why is there no first-person view option for the Tower, and why is there no way to zoom in in the Tower? Bungie's always been pretty good about details; why can't I look more closely at things in the Tower?

- stats (please see below)

- customization (please see below)

- the cursor UI (please see below)

The Badass
(Things I really like)

- precision kill deaths, at least on the Fallen and Hive, although for the Hive I might be thinking of deaths in general-- I'd still like to know why the Fallen do that soul-escaping thing though (assuming someone let Joe Staten or another writer actually come up with a reason instead of saying "no it's just a cool fantasy-ish thing"; the Rule of Cool is fine, especially in something like this, but to purposefully not come up with reasons for things seems counterproductive and just wrong to me)

- hand cannons-- the OK ones are OK, I haven't really run across a bad one, and the good ones are so good, you don't even know, man; for a while now I've been coming back to the Duke Mk. 21-- it's effectively a reskinned, high-impact, small-magazine scout rifle, but no actual scout rifle I've had measures up in usability or aesthetic enjoyment (hand cannons don't seem to be that good for using in the Crucible, but I don't have that much of a problem with that, it's the old "different weapons for different enemies" thing)

- a lot of the things I like about Destiny are the reasons I'm a Hunter, and I never got around to detailing why I like being a Hunter, so:

--- knives

--- throwing knives (yes, this deserves a separate entry)

--- the incendiary grenades are kind of nice but the appearance of the fire seems inconsistent and it's usually woefully behind Halo 3 and Reach (I remember they said they had to majorly change how fire works to have it be all over the place in Reach and not bog down the game, I'm guessing they had to do that again for Destiny; whatever it was, the visuals suffered for it)

--- a focus on "physical" combat as opposed to more ethereal "magical" combat-- not that I don't like magic, but shooting someone is more visceral, and shoving a knife in their face is even more visceral than that

--- Nathan Fillion-- I'm not a gigantic fan of his or probably even a big fan (I still haven't really seen his most famous roles), but I like what I've seen of him in games and TV and movies and when he's not acting, so it's nice to have him be "my" Vanguard representative

--- throwing knives (yes, this deserves an entry separate from the other separate entry)

--- capes I'm on the fence about, I really really want to put down the damn hood every single cape comes with, but the capes themselves are a pretty good idea and I've seen several I liked the looks of

--- double jumping-- it's enjoyable and feels less BS than some of the other jumping abilities (I may revise this statement after I try them out though)

--- throwing knives that set things on fire (I haven't gotten this yet but I expect it to be good)

--- Chain of Woe-- where has this been my whole life?!

As a thank-you for reading this far, and because I can't think of a better way to give them away, here are the bonus codes I got with the game:
GameStop sparrow: H94JK-CCXT7-W3RMK-6MX3K-VWYCZ
early Vanguard armory access: PCTC3-36TR9-W9723-PD4HJ-XDVWZ
I got the Xbox 360 version of the game so these might only apply to Xbox versions or only Xbox 360 versions.

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Weapon stats

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 13:40 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

Why are there no numbers for half the weapon statistics/traits still? In particular, why not for rate of fire, which the description outright says is the number of rounds per minute? You can compare one to another, but only if you have one of the ones you want to compare equipped, and you can only compare two at a time. It would take a while just to compare a full personal inventory of just one type of item, I don't want to think about how long it would take to compare every type of item, let alone that and everything in your vault.... These stats tell you almost everything about a gun. It can't be hard, I don't see how it could take away from anything, they could still have the right trigger comparison thing, why is it acceptable to not just show us the damn numbers anywhere?
Not only that, but you can only compare weapons that are in the same class, so you can't figure out what's a better all-around weapon between two (or more) weapons in different classes without a good amount of testing, or going on b.net and inspecting the code for displaying a weapon's stats, if that still works. Of course, I've heard even the in-game comparison isn't that accurate or meaningful between different weapon types in the same class; if that's true, I want to know why it lets you compare them. I mean sure, range is going to be wildly different between a shotgun and a sniper rifle, among other differences that just won't compare well, but expecting players to apply a small amount of common sense, not to mention using numbers instead of bars, would make that not be an issue, I think.
Related to the above, how does damage work? Casual impressions, fan theories, official explanations, and the game itself all seem to be disagree with each other and themselves, especially when it comes to attack and impact, and especially what exactly attack does. Is just combined with impact in some way? Can you not damage enemies above a certain level with a weapon with a certain attack rating? Does it just lower or increase damage dealt based on level? Why do they even have two different stats that appear to be about damage dealt? How do enemy level and enemy defense rating form damage resistance? For PvP, how does a Guardian's armor rating figure into this? Bungie, please, would you tell us the formula for damage dealt/received? I know some group of people will figure it out eventually but you'd save a lot of time and wrong impressions and needlessly scrapped gear by telling us, even just partially.

Magazine Size

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, September 28, 2014, 03:25 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

On top of all that, the one stat that is given as an exact number - magazine size - isnt always right. A lot of my Scout Rifles have one less ammo capacity than listed in their stats.

I dont know if this only happens with Scouts, but it still seems ridiculous.


As for the rest of the stats, expect a post eventually with some of that (RoF in shots per Second, Impact in actual (crucible) damage, reload time in seconds, etc.). And then expect it to still be super inconvenient to check B.Net for those numbers, then come here and compare them.

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Magazine Size

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Sunday, September 28, 2014, 11:16 (3503 days ago) @ someotherguy

On top of all that, the one stat that is given as an exact number - magazine size - isnt always right. A lot of my Scout Rifles have one less ammo capacity than listed in their stats.

I dont know if this only happens with Scouts, but it still seems ridiculous.

what, seriously?

As for the rest of the stats, expect a post eventually with some of that (RoF in shots per Second, Impact in actual (crucible) damage, reload time in seconds, etc.). And then expect it to still be super inconvenient to check B.Net for those numbers, then come here and compare them.

I'm glad that someone is going to the trouble (thank you, if you mean yourself), but they shouldn't have to.

Magazine Size

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, September 28, 2014, 12:27 (3503 days ago) @ General Vagueness


what, seriously?

Yup. Ive got 13s that only carry 12, 15s with 14, etc. Weird.


I'm glad that someone is going to the trouble (thank you, if you mean yourself), but they shouldn't have to.

No worries, Ive been enjoying it when it hasnt got in the way of playing. Organising my vault has been a nightmare mind - can't dismantle gear til I've grabbed its B.Net stats, used it in the crucible, and recorded its RoF and Reload time. The things I do for fun ^_^

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Also: throwing knives.

by Xenos @, Shores of Time, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 13:41 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

- No text -

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Also: throwing knives.

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 13:56 (3504 days ago) @ Xenos

That reminded me, I also really like that hitting an enemy in the head with the throwing knife counts as precision damage, and to be low on ammo or just low on care and toss a knife at an oncoming Fallen, and have it take their head off, is just so satisfying.

Knife juggler

by Blue_Blazer_NZ, Wellington, New Zealand, Sunday, September 28, 2014, 13:11 (3503 days ago) @ General Vagueness

That reminded me, I also really like that hitting an enemy in the head with the throwing knife counts as precision damage, and to be low on ammo or just low on care and toss a knife at an oncoming Fallen, and have it take their head off, is just so satisfying.

Doing this with the knife juggler ability active is amazing; multi-knife kills for the win.

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The Faces of Destiny

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 13:43 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

What's the problem with faces? Why are there so few? Why are they different between humans and Awoken? Why not just make all the faces available to both humans and Awoken? (As an aside, there's one that I could almost see myself using for my main character, but it looks really similar to Alak Tarr from Defiance, so it would be distracting-- but it would also make it a great choice for the Awoken character I was planning on making, but I can't use it for that because it's not available). This is one area, maybe the only area, where I let myself actually expect things to be better in the full game, because I couldn't accept they'd think this would be good enough; what gives?

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Continuing Cursor UI Issues

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 13:50 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

The cursor UI is still finicky, and that means it's still frustrating.
I know Agdtinman said when I brought it up before that Bungie was happy with the cursor UI (by the way, I appreciate at least knowing my issues were seen and getting a reply), but I didn't rule out some improvement, and he admitted problems with it, and those don't seem to be fixed. Having an item be selected if it's only thing under the cursor, even if it's only under a little bit of the cursor, doesn't happen. Having an item selected if the cursor is more over it than another item it's also over seems to happen but it feels finicky, and I'd still like a better shape than a circle for the cursor or for crosshairs or something to be added. In fact it already has a circle inside it that's divided into quarters, they could just make the gaps line up with up, down, left, and right or be arranged in an X shape and have that circle not spin and it would be somewhat helpful. (I really have no idea why it spins, it doesn't fit the fantasy theme and it doesn't feel futuristic at all, cursors like that have been around for literally decades.) There was an issue mentioned of the cursor being more slippery in 4:3, and I can't tell if that's been fixed. I was really, really hoping for the speed and maybe even the acceleration to be adjustable (I didn't really expect it, because of the comment about them being happy with it, but I had some hope).
The problems, to be specific, are that I overshoot things, and that it's frustratingly slow. The fact both of those things are problems even though they're in opposition to each other is my biggest support for ditching the cursor-- I'm increasingly inclined to be believe you cannot make a thumbstick-controlled cursor UI that is both fast and fluid.
A lesser but related issue is that having to move the cursor to see some things is annoying to me, whether it's by going in one direction or by hovering on something or in the case of the "Gear" screen/sub-screen actually selecting something.
To be fair, I don't seem to be having quite as many problems with it as I did for most of the beta. I suspect this is because I've gotten used to it, about as much as I can. All the issues are still there, though.
I've also noticed, in the beta and more so now, that the problems are magnified when I try to change weapons in a hurry, so I have the right weapon for an enemy or group of enemies that are attacking me. The panic makes it more clunky, which makes me more panicked, and it feeds back until I get the cursor to stop on the right weapon and then press A and then Start, by which time I hopefully haven't died. You could argue I should pick the right weapon beforehand, but it's very possible to be surprised by what enemies show up, and since I'm still not done with the story or most of the strikes the map geometry can surprise me too.
(Also, I don't know if this is related to the cursor setup, but in Crucible it always seems to take 3-5 seconds or more for weapons to show up in the inventory screen, making it really suck to swap weapons unless you're waiting to respawn.)
I realize some people are having no problems with this. I am, and I can't be the only one.
I get that Bungie's whole thing is making games they want to play, and this must be part of that, and I respect that. This element is not something that I want to deal with, and knowing the people that made it like it-- or anyone, for that matter-- doesn't stop it from being frustrating and just not fun to use.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 14:43 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

- in the sub-screen where you pick your control layout, the top area of the screen and your Guardian card (or whatever you call it) make it hard or impossible to see what the triggers and bumpers do, depending on the exact positioning of the cursor

I don't know why I never thought to include this, but in the same vein as the above, when you're comparing weapons the little player card thing is constantly blocking the top information area of one of them, it's not all the time, but it's really common, and it shouldn't ever happen.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 15:43 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

- in the sub-screen where you pick your control layout, the top area of the screen and your Guardian card (or whatever you call it) make it hard or impossible to see what the triggers and bumpers do, depending on the exact positioning of the cursor


I don't know why I never thought to include this, but in the same vein as the above, when you're comparing weapons the little player card thing is constantly blocking the top information area of one of them, it's not all the time, but it's really common, and it shouldn't ever happen.

Set your screen bounds correctly. It's one of the first things the game makes you do, and it's in the options menu.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, September 27, 2014, 15:55 (3504 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Maybe his resolution is far too small for even the set bounds to fix it? Worth a shot, though.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 17:52 (3504 days ago) @ Cody Miller

- in the sub-screen where you pick your control layout, the top area of the screen and your Guardian card (or whatever you call it) make it hard or impossible to see what the triggers and bumpers do, depending on the exact positioning of the cursor


I don't know why I never thought to include this, but in the same vein as the above, when you're comparing weapons the little player card thing is constantly blocking the top information area of one of them, it's not all the time, but it's really common, and it shouldn't ever happen.


Set your screen bounds correctly. It's one of the first things the game makes you do, and it's in the options menu.

I did, I even checked it again later at one point and readjusted it because the little angle things weren't where I'd positioned them. Also when the queen's wrath thing came up I could only see like half of the queen.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 17:56 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

- in the sub-screen where you pick your control layout, the top area of the screen and your Guardian card (or whatever you call it) make it hard or impossible to see what the triggers and bumpers do, depending on the exact positioning of the cursor


I don't know why I never thought to include this, but in the same vein as the above, when you're comparing weapons the little player card thing is constantly blocking the top information area of one of them, it's not all the time, but it's really common, and it shouldn't ever happen.


Set your screen bounds correctly. It's one of the first things the game makes you do, and it's in the options menu.


I did, I even checked it again later at one point and readjusted it because the little angle things weren't where I'd positioned them. Also when the queen's wrath thing came up I could only see like half of the queen.

Are you on a CRT?

It's possible that everything wasn't tested for that.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 19:22 (3504 days ago) @ Kermit

- in the sub-screen where you pick your control layout, the top area of the screen and your Guardian card (or whatever you call it) make it hard or impossible to see what the triggers and bumpers do, depending on the exact positioning of the cursor


I don't know why I never thought to include this, but in the same vein as the above, when you're comparing weapons the little player card thing is constantly blocking the top information area of one of them, it's not all the time, but it's really common, and it shouldn't ever happen.


Set your screen bounds correctly. It's one of the first things the game makes you do, and it's in the options menu.


I did, I even checked it again later at one point and readjusted it because the little angle things weren't where I'd positioned them. Also when the queen's wrath thing came up I could only see like half of the queen.


Are you on a CRT?

yeah

It's possible that everything wasn't tested for that.

I want to doubt that, given they're still common and the game came out for systems that generally support them well, but... IDK

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 20:04 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

- in the sub-screen where you pick your control layout, the top area of the screen and your Guardian card (or whatever you call it) make it hard or impossible to see what the triggers and bumpers do, depending on the exact positioning of the cursor


I don't know why I never thought to include this, but in the same vein as the above, when you're comparing weapons the little player card thing is constantly blocking the top information area of one of them, it's not all the time, but it's really common, and it shouldn't ever happen.


Set your screen bounds correctly. It's one of the first things the game makes you do, and it's in the options menu.


I did, I even checked it again later at one point and readjusted it because the little angle things weren't where I'd positioned them. Also when the queen's wrath thing came up I could only see like half of the queen.


Are you on a CRT?


yeah

It's possible that everything wasn't tested for that.


I want to doubt that, given they're still common and the game came out for systems that generally support them well, but... IDK

They aren't common anymore, and the PS4 at least does not support them out of the box. Set your screen bounds so that everything is within the title safe for your TV. Just pull it in even farther.

The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by Velociraptor112, Places., Saturday, September 27, 2014, 21:08 (3504 days ago) @ General Vagueness

I agree with pretty much all of this, but I just wanted to say that something that really annoys me in Destiny is that you can just walk through anything that isn't directly tied into your game. Even the Queen's Emissary's ship, you'd expect that at least would be solid, but nope. Jump right through it. Just a little thing, but it annoys me.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 22:25 (3504 days ago) @ Velociraptor112
edited by General Vagueness, Saturday, September 27, 2014, 22:30

I agree with pretty much all of this, but I just wanted to say that something that really annoys me in Destiny is that you can just walk through anything that isn't directly tied into your game. Even the Queen's Emissary's ship, you'd expect that at least would be solid, but nope. Jump right through it. Just a little thing, but it annoys me.

I've only encountered that in the Tower, does it show up elsewhere?
In the Tower, it's so you can't mess with people as much, and probably something about ship physics. It feels like taking the easy way out in much the same way as requiring you to go through menus and send/accept requests to talk to people, but unlike with that I don't have alternatives to offer that still prevent a Habbo Hotel situation. (Habbo Hotel is a 2D on-line life sim type game that is arguably best known today for raids where people blocked access to various things in the game by simply standing around them.)

The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by Velociraptor112, Places., Sunday, September 28, 2014, 21:49 (3503 days ago) @ General Vagueness

True. I never thought of that. Maybe they didn't bother with the NPCs because it wasn't worth the trouble of making most transparent and only a few solid. Dunno.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Sunday, September 28, 2014, 22:50 (3503 days ago) @ Velociraptor112

True. I never thought of that. Maybe they didn't bother with the NPCs because it wasn't worth the trouble of making most transparent and only a few solid. Dunno.

hmm, now that I think about it, it shouldn't have been a problem making the NPCs solid, the problem is with the players

The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by Velociraptor112, Places., Monday, September 29, 2014, 09:52 (3502 days ago) @ General Vagueness

Yeah, I'm sure they had some reason for it.

Hopefully that reason was not laziness.

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Manual Override

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Sunday, September 28, 2014, 12:54 (3503 days ago) @ General Vagueness

I was just reminded of a major gripe, which did come up a bunch in my time with Destiny so far-- there's no manual, and there's nothing that takes the place of a manual, and the game sorely, badly needs one. The damage system, the reputation and mark systems, heck even the story would be good to have in the manual, to name a few.

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The Good, the Badass, and the Ugly—Early Thoughts on Destiny

by General Vagueness @, The Vault of Sass, Friday, October 03, 2014, 10:51 (3498 days ago) @ General Vagueness

so did anyone use those codes, or what?

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