Does anyone else feel this way? Every strike boss, and most of the story bosses I've fought, just feel like chipping away at a hunk of rock that happens to shoot at me. I don't feel like taking a long time is on my checklist of what makes a boss fight fun. I'd prefer to see some more agile bosses with less health, or more interesting patterns for defeating them besides just shooting a lot. Or even boss fights that aren't boss fights, like 'drive the Pike out of the Fallen ship before it explodes'. I dunno.

I'm getting off on a tangent. The point is, I was watching the let's play of the Summoning Pits, and after they shoot the boss for a while, it's health bar is still over 90%. No wonder I have no desire to play that strike ever again. I suppose part of the problem is that weapon damage varies so much depending on the player, but even so, these bosses have way too much health. If it needs to be harder, they should be smarter or more aggressive. In my experience, even Borderlands bosses don't take this long.

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FWIW, Bungie has said that Strike bosses are actually glitched at the moment.

Since launch we've tracked down an issue which has made Strikes more challenging than originally designed by both increasing damage taken by players and decreasing the damage inflicted by players on the boss.

Destiny Dev Notes

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Does anyone else feel this way? Every strike boss, and most of the story bosses I've fought, just feel like chipping away at a hunk of rock that happens to shoot at me. I don't feel like taking a long time is on my checklist of what makes a boss fight fun. I'd prefer to see some more agile bosses with less health, or more interesting patterns for defeating them besides just shooting a lot. Or even boss fights that aren't boss fights, like 'drive the Pike out of the Fallen ship before it explodes'. I dunno.

I'm getting off on a tangent. The point is, I was watching the let's play of the Summoning Pits, and after they shoot the boss for a while, it's health bar is still over 90%. No wonder I have no desire to play that strike ever again. I suppose part of the problem is that weapon damage varies so much depending on the player, but even so, these bosses have way too much health. If it needs to be harder, they should be smarter or more aggressive. In my experience, even Borderlands bosses don't take this long.

Meh. I'm not seeing it.

I just did Summoning Pits through the level 24 Strike playlist (way above the level of the Let's Play video, with tons of harder Heroic level enemies along the way) in 18:05 and killed the Ogre in just over eight minutes by myself. Both my matchmade partners vanished by the time I engaged the boss. Give me two more competent, well armed Guardians and Phogath would go down in something like three minutes. Certainly three minutes isn't too long!

Most of the bosses are slow moving stage hazards, the only interesting ones are during the raid where they have gimmicks and strategy.

Just in general this games AI is lacking compared to Halo.

However, I must say your weapons' Attack ratings makes a HUGE difference. I remember the time I used to chip away at the Devil Walkers I hit 30, maybe 50 on leg crit with primary weapon. Now I hit 80, maybe 100, depending on the weapon.

Yeah, I'm sure it varies a lot. For me, I did Summoning Pits a while ago with my level slightly higher than the recommended, along with two other players, and the boss fight took forever. I was just sick of dealing with it long before it was over. On the other hand, fighting the spider tank (walker) in Devils' Lair at a high level isn't bad at all compared to the first time I tried it. So in my experience, the boss fights aren't unpleasant as long as they are too easy. Something seems wrong with that. Even aside from the time it takes, there has to be a way to make the fights less repetitive. And I feel like the single, slow-moving giant with a ton of hit points is part of the problem. It really sucks when you finally whittle a boss's health down, then the fire team gets killed off and you have to start from scratch, knowing that you just have to repeat everything you did for another five minutes at least, and then not make a mistake. Personally, I would rather be killed off in the first minute for making the wrong decision, then have to change strategies on respawn, and be able to win in a couple minutes if we're doing it right, and aiming well.

It sounds like the raids might be more interesting, but the way things are set up, it means slogging through all the boring content to be able to access the good parts. I most definitely don't have time for that.

Most of the bosses are slow moving stage hazards, the only interesting ones are during the raid where they have gimmicks and strategy.

I'd love to see more interesting bosses, but I still enjoy the Strikes. Hopefully Bungie will use these first ones, and the good things people are saying about the Raid, to build more dynamic Strikes in the future. It'll be interesting to see if Strikes evolve from thirty minute missions to something longer with more segments as Destiny moves forward.

Just in general this games AI is lacking compared to Halo.

Totally disagree. The one real leg up Halo has over Destiny is enemy communication. Halo 1 hit it so far out of the park with the one, two of the Grunt's broken english and Elite's reversed dialogue that Bungie will never, ever be able to top it. But beyond that, Destiny's enemies do all the things Halo's did with many having alternate attack and defensive moves where most Halo enemies did not. Sure, there are a few unique things between the games. Destiny doesn't have anything quite like Suicide Grunts or Flood taking over units, while Halo's enemies can't lean out from cover or teleport right up in your face, but on the whole they are very similar.

I'd wager if we somehow reduced both games to stick figures and unmodeled spaces you'd be very hard pressed to tell the difference. It would come down to recognizing weapons and firing patterns and not how the AI actually fights or moves.

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What it might come down to is Bungie has never really designed the best boss fights. Halo 2 had the unforgiving Elite + Copies on the gas giant, Regret & the Throne of Invincibility, and Tartarus. Halo 3 and ODST had Scarbs which are really just big Spider Tanks with less attack options. (Scarbs had main gun + turret, Spider Tanks have main gun, blue gun, front twirly-wirly gun, EMP shockwave, grenades, Shanks)

If anything the Raid seems like a positive sign that Bungie can and hopefully will do better in the future.

Just in general this games AI is lacking compared to Halo.

Totally disagree. The one real leg up Halo has over Destiny is enemy communication. Halo 1 hit it so far out of the park with the one, two of the Grunt's broken english and Elite's reversed dialogue that Bungie will never, ever be able to top it. But beyond that, Destiny's enemies do all the things Halo's did with many having alternate attack and defensive moves where most Halo enemies did not. Sure, there are a few unique things between the games. Destiny doesn't have anything quite like Suicide Grunts or Flood taking over units, while Halo's enemies can't lean out from cover or teleport right up in your face, but on the whole they are very similar.

I'd wager if we somehow reduced both games to stick figures and unmodeled spaces you'd be very hard pressed to tell the difference. It would come down to recognizing weapons and firing patterns and not how the AI actually fights or moves.

I remember a good talk some people from Bungie gave a while back on communicating enemy AI to the player. I mostly agree with you, and I think that communication is what Halo had that Destiny needs. In Destiny, the enemies mostly just roar or make random noises that are pretty indistinguishable from one another. The Fallen probably come the closest to actually communicating intention, and the Vex Hobgoblins at least have a predictable behavior that helps them stand out. But Halo's enemies had much more iconic emotes and sounds, and had the advantage that there were usually a wide variety at one time, interacting with each other in understandable and interesting ways. Grunts are a good example of this, and their responses to elites. Destiny really needs to work on developing interesting relationships like this, and even more important, finding ways to clearly communicate what's happening to the player, even if enemies aren't speaking English.

Other than that, I do think they overuse the popping out from cover behavior. I feel like I'm target shooting at a carnival sometimes, especially since some of them don't fire more than a couple times, but just lean as far out as possible like they are asking you to shoot them in the face.

What it might come down to is Bungie has never really designed the best boss fights. Halo 2 had the unforgiving Elite + Copies on the gas giant, Regret & the Throne of Invincibility, and Tartarus. Halo 3 and ODST had Scarbs which are really just big Spider Tanks with less attack options. (Scarbs had main gun + turret, Spider Tanks have main gun, blue gun, front twirly-wirly gun, EMP shockwave, grenades, Shanks)

If anything the Raid seems like a positive sign that Bungie can and hopefully will do better in the future.

See, I thought scarabs made for interesting bosses, because there were so many ways to deal with them. Sometimes I would go for the legs to get them on the ground, hop on board and take out the reactor. Other times, I would just stay in a vehicle and take out their rear armor, then snipe the reactor from far away. My favorite strategy was to ride shotgun on a hornet, then board the scarab by leaping off as we flew over it. If you did it wrong, fighting a scarab could drag on for a long time, but do it right, and you could take it out in less than 20 seconds.

The Heretic Elite I thought was okay, too, because it was about choosing the right one, but I'll admit it wasn't great aside from that. Tartarus was the most like a bullet sponge, but seeing him and his brutes duke it out with the elites while we fought was usually fun, and the arena itself was kind of interesting to navigate.

I will say that spider tanks are one of my favorite bosses in Destiny, because of all the different things they can do, though the strategy for defeating them is only slightly different from the other bosses, which is just shoot them a lot in critical locations. For that reason, not as much fun as scarabs to me.

I'm curious about raid bosses, but most everything else is just a large, slow version of a regular enemy, that can soak up a lot more hits. The way I see it, if they aren't going to do something unique, I woud rather just not even fight a boss. Seems like they need to spend more time and thought on designing these.

I enjoyed punching him in the face repeatedly, but other than that, he was a lot like some of the Destiny bosses.

If anything the Raid seems like a positive sign that Bungie can and hopefully will do better in the future.

I actually thought ODST did a fantastic job employing weapon choice as a puzzle game in the firefight mode; exchanging weapons constantly to more effectively kill each enemy (pistol/carbine for grunts, noob combo for brutes, etc.) and rationing rockets for the chieftains.

I think they employed some of that with Destiny, and it shows in the strike bosses, especially when trying to manage shielded mobs during the final encounters. If you know to have a solar fusion rifle, Phogoth is a breeze; if you don't pack one, those wizards f- you up and you get wiped. Maybe Phogoth has too much health, but I've noticed managing my weapons and bringing enough appropriate ones makes strikes much faster.

At least on Legendary. Not only is he incredibly resilient, but he's a Flunky Boss extraordinaire, with endlessly respawning Honor Guard Elites, and on Legendary a single Elite can kill you in half a second with their plasma rifles. I think I only managed to beat that bastard Regret once of the maybe three or four times I tried to subject myself to the insanity that is Halo 2's Legendary mode.

I don't remember it being.

If anything the Raid seems like a positive sign that Bungie can and hopefully will do better in the future.

True. The Raid was designed by Luke Smith, who IIRC was highly critical of the boss fights in Halo 2, along with most of Bungie's design decisions on that game.

I think I only managed to beat that bastard Regret once of the maybe three or four times I tried to subject myself to the insanity that is Halo 2's Legendary mode.

Sword fly more.

I just imagine Cortana thinking what about the other one and MC being like I'll figure it out

I think it's a mixed bag, sometimes they are great, sometimes they suck.

Certainly no worse than the Brutes from Halo 3 though, and often way better.

Played the daily Story last night solo. Those missions are making a much better impression on me now than when I first went through. Had to use every skill, weapon and all my mobility to get through.

The stealthed melee guys were one hitting me. It was so intense. The final encounter is amazing, with about 6 or 7 waves without a checkpoint to fall back to.

Reminded me of the better encounters from Halo CE Legendary. I eventually learned not to stay scoped in for more than a few seconds, kept spinning to see where the stealth bastards were and be ready on the quick-swap to Invective. When the boss did show up I had my emergency panic rockets to unload, it was glorious.

As for the bosses, it's all about attunement. If they take more than 3 or 4 minutes to drop, you were not equipped well enough. Some bosses I hated in the early 20's I'm having a ball with now. I do agree that they are more an environmental hazard but that rely on the ads to make them interesting, but that works for me.

If there is a DMG modifier for the boss and you have the MG matching it, they drop in seconds (It's often better to focus on them then keep dealing with the scary ads in this situation).

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and killed the Ogre in just over eight minutes by myself.

8 Minutes of doing the same thing is an ETERNITY in video games time.

Think you missed the point there where he was solo.

3 or 4 minutes of co-op survival against waves of nasty adds whilst trying to get a few licks in on the moving super turret is fine for some of us I imagine. I always have a good time on that encounter now since I realised trying to solo weekly Strikes is foolish.

and killed the Ogre in just over eight minutes by myself.

8 Minutes of doing the same thing is an ETERNITY in video games time.

I was having a blast, thank you. Why?

1. It's an encounter designed for three people. I was playing it by myself since my matchmade team disappeared. It was like playing the best parts of a Halo game on Legendary with the added tension of knowing that a death would reset a lot more than just a few enemies. As I said before, three of us could have knocked it out in three minutes, maybe less.

2. I wasn't doing the same thing. I was shooting the boss. I was scrambling behind cover. I was taking out mortar knights. I was firing up Ward of Dawn to blind the tough and dangerous sword knights that would come after me. I was retreating to other sections of the map. And I was using my fusion rifle to take out wizards.

And that's the thing. None of the boss battles ask you to sit there and just peg away at a wall (heh, or stand in one place and shoot into a cave!) they challenge you with diverse waves and generally keep you moving. The only "same thing" you do is "play Destiny." If playing the game seem to take an eternity to you maybe you should consider playing a different game.

And that's the thing. None of the boss battles ask you to sit there and just peg away at a wall (heh, or stand in one place and shoot into a cave!) they challenge you with diverse waves and generally keep you moving. The only "same thing" you do is "play Destiny." If playing the game seem to take an eternity to you maybe you should consider playing a different game.

I don't know about this part. Fighting Sepiks prime is little more than shooting a eyeball that occasionally moves while sometimes fighting low level Fallen. Same for Draksis, Riksis, every walker you fight, and various other enemies.

People's issues aren't with the availability of enemies or some fictional enemy that you stand still to shoot at. It is the lack of variety in boss battles. One battle that plays out like Sepiks would be tons of fun. Nearly every boss battle using the same formula gets old really fast. When I first killed Riksis for instance, I thought Destiny had boss battles better than any I had played before. Then when I killed the Cabal Strike guy I thought, boy that is exactly the same as Riksis just with even more predictable movements.

And that's the thing. None of the boss battles ask you to sit there and just peg away at a wall (heh, or stand in one place and shoot into a cave!) they challenge you with diverse waves and generally keep you moving. The only "same thing" you do is "play Destiny." If playing the game seem to take an eternity to you maybe you should consider playing a different game.

I don't know about this part. Fighting Sepiks prime is little more than shooting a eyeball that occasionally moves while sometimes fighting low level Fallen. Same for Draksis, Riksis, every walker you fight, and various other enemies.

People's issues aren't with the availability of enemies or some fictional enemy that you stand still to shoot at. It is the lack of variety in boss battles. One battle that plays out like Sepiks would be tons of fun. Nearly every boss battle using the same formula gets old really fast. When I first killed Riksis for instance, I thought Destiny had boss battles better than any I had played before. Then when I killed the Cabal Strike guy I thought, boy that is exactly the same as Riksis just with even more predictable movements.

Sure, variety is needed. Especially in future strikes. But I think you're understating the differences between the strikes. Fighting Phogath puts you in contention with mortars enemies (Knights and Wizards) and slow and quick melee enemies. Fighting Cabal guy has you pinned down by hard to kill Phalanx and annoyingly quick Psions. Fighting, the Archon Priest, has a boss that does have freedom of movement along with snipers, mortar enemies (Servitors), swarms of standard gun enemies (Dreg and Shanks) and fairly powerful melee enemies (those cloaked Vandals). Yes, most of the strikes have a central big bad, but the other enemies are different enough to change your tactics.

As for some of the others you mentioned: Riksis isn't really even a boss. He's an introduction. Like the Archon Priest, Draksis is actually one of the good exception to the barely moving central boss. And Walkers are a bit hit and miss. The Walker in the Sepikis strike is not so great. You have to be a bit inept to die to it. But I've had a lot of fun with Walkers in public events because you tend to get tougher side enemies. I've been legitimately pinned down on by the Walkers on Venus or the Moon or even the public event one on Earth. I wouldn't mind the Walkers firing a bit quicker though. Right now they telegraph so much they become the side threat with the side enemies being the ones you have to watch out for...

The strike I do think needs a little help is Sepikis Prime. Even on hard modes (like through the Strike Playlist) the distracting enemies are pushovers. It needs more powerful units coming after you. I find the three waves earlier in the strike with Wizards and melee Vandals and that powerful Captain at the end far more dangerous than sidestepping Sepikis' shots and one-shoting every enemy that gets dropped off. If they'd add in the cloaked Vandals, pairs of minor Servitors split to the left and right, or the occasional major Vandal or Captain the end of that strike would get a lot more interesting.

Think you missed the point there where he was solo.

3 or 4 minutes of co-op survival against waves of nasty adds whilst trying to get a few licks in on the moving super turret is fine for some of us I imagine. I always have a good time on that encounter now since I realised trying to solo weekly Strikes is foolish.

It is definitely foolish, but I've been forced into it several times when my matchmaking partners ditch. Not much fun. I wonder if people can join your game while you're fighting. It seems like it waits for you to die or reach the next area before adding anyone new.

And that's the thing. None of the boss battles ask you to sit there and just peg away at a wall (heh, or stand in one place and shoot into a cave!) they challenge you with diverse waves and generally keep you moving. The only "same thing" you do is "play Destiny." If playing the game seem to take an eternity to you maybe you should consider playing a different game.

You make a good point at the end there. ^^

The strike I do think needs a little help is Sepikis Prime. Even on hard modes (like through the Strike Playlist) the distracting enemies are pushovers. It needs more powerful units coming after you. I find the three waves earlier in the strike with Wizards and melee Vandals and that powerful Captain at the end far more dangerous than sidestepping Sepikis' shots and one-shoting every enemy that gets dropped off. If they'd add in the cloaked Vandals, pairs of minor Servitors split to the left and right, or the occasional major Vandal or Captain the end of that strike would get a lot more interesting.

Well, it IS the first strike in the game, so it's probably going to be the easiest relative to any other. I think my biggest problem with the spider tank in that level is that it doesn't really move, and there are only a couple of angles on it. Fighting them in public events, there is usually more open space, which is nice.

I don't know if those tanks should fire more often. Players need to have a chance to relocate in between barrages without being permanently pinned down. However, what would be nice, which I don't think they can do now, is if they could fire and target multiple weapon systems at once. That way they could be more effective against groups of players attacking from different directions. But one thing I don't like about the ogre in Summoning Pits is that he just seems to be constantly firing, so even getting off shots to whittle his health down (in between dealing with all the other enemies) is a huge pain.

At the very end of my lone battle against Phogath two more Gaurdians were matched in. They literally entered the room as the boss was dying. Still got better rewards then me... :p But yes, it will eventually add in more people.

The strike I do think needs a little help is Sepikis Prime. Even on hard modes (like through the Strike Playlist) the distracting enemies are pushovers. It needs more powerful units coming after you. I find the three waves earlier in the strike with Wizards and melee Vandals and that powerful Captain at the end far more dangerous than sidestepping Sepikis' shots and one-shoting every enemy that gets dropped off. If they'd add in the cloaked Vandals, pairs of minor Servitors split to the left and right, or the occasional major Vandal or Captain the end of that strike would get a lot more interesting.

Well, it IS the first strike in the game, so it's probably going to be the easiest relative to any other. I think my biggest problem with the spider tank in that level is that it doesn't really move, and there are only a couple of angles on it. Fighting them in public events, there is usually more open space, which is nice.

I don't know if those tanks should fire more often. Players need to have a chance to relocate in between barrages without being permanently pinned down. However, what would be nice, which I don't think they can do now, is if they could fire and target multiple weapon systems at once. That way they could be more effective against groups of players attacking from different directions. But one thing I don't like about the ogre in Summoning Pits is that he just seems to be constantly firing, so even getting off shots to whittle his health down (in between dealing with all the other enemies) is a huge pain.

I don't want the spider tanks to fire too quickly but just speed up the charge time little bit to make you have to pay more attention. Right now you can just listen for the aiming sound, fire a few more shots, and then move. Another neat option would be to have two spider tanks. That would be a lot of fun! Totally agree about not having the tank with its back against the wall. In the public events you can spread out and hit it from all sides. Makes the fights more enjoyable.

On Mr Ogre, him firing at you is an opportunity for your Fireteam to hit him. Think of it more as you being the noble distraction. :)

I think it's a mixed bag, sometimes they are great, sometimes they suck.

Certainly no worse than the Brutes from Halo 3 though, and often way better.

Played the daily Story last night solo. Those missions are making a much better impression on me now than when I first went through. Had to use every skill, weapon and all my mobility to get through.

The stealthed melee guys were one hitting me. It was so intense. The final encounter is amazing, with about 6 or 7 waves without a checkpoint to fall back to.

Reminded me of the better encounters from Halo CE Legendary. I eventually learned not to stay scoped in for more than a few seconds, kept spinning to see where the stealth bastards were and be ready on the quick-swap to Invective. When the boss did show up I had my emergency panic rockets to unload, it was glorious.

I dunno, as far as communicating actions to the player, I thought the H3 brutes did it pretty well. Mainly because they spoke English, which makes it a lot easier. Often times, when I was hiding around the corner with a shotgun, I'd hear them talk about flushing me out, or using grenades. Other than that, though, they maybe weren't as iconic as some of the other enemies. The H1 elites were some of the best, because they had really obvious tells that you could predict. I remember Bungie people making fun of the way brutes behaved in Halo 2, but I thought the buddy system they set up was interesting, actually. If I killed one brute, I could be pretty certain there was another one freaking out and charging me right then, even if I couldn't see him. That made things tense, as I tried to figure out where he might come from.

Another thing that was interestng, in that same talk on AI that I mentioned before, was that players in studies would often misinterpret enemy intelligence just based on how successful they were. So give enemies more health and make them do more damage, and suddenly they seem smarter. If that cloaked vandal rushing you doesn't stand a chance, he seems like an idiot, but if he manages to kill you, suddenly he seems smart, even though there's no difference in the actual behaviors.

On Mr Ogre, him firing at you is an opportunity for your Fireteam to hit him. Think of it more as you being the noble distraction. :)

True, but that must be rough if you're fighting him by yourself.

On Mr Ogre, him firing at you is an opportunity for your Fireteam to hit him. Think of it more as you being the noble distraction. :)

True, but that must be rough if you're fighting him by yourself.

It was. Fortunately he takes a break every so often. That or I just Bubble Shielded it up and popped in and out to do some damage. :)

Think you missed the point there where he was solo.

3 or 4 minutes of co-op survival against waves of nasty adds whilst trying to get a few licks in on the moving super turret is fine for some of us I imagine. I always have a good time on that encounter now since I realised trying to solo weekly Strikes is foolish.

Diablo already solved this problem. Each player in the game makes the enemies stronger. So if you are alone, the boss has less life. It ends up being slightly easier with friends, but is doable and not tedious solo.

Think you missed the point there where he was solo.

3 or 4 minutes of co-op survival against waves of nasty adds whilst trying to get a few licks in on the moving super turret is fine for some of us I imagine. I always have a good time on that encounter now since I realised trying to solo weekly Strikes is foolish.

Diablo already solved this problem. Each player in the game makes the enemies stronger. So if you are alone, the boss has less life. It ends up being slightly easier with friends, but is doable and not tedious solo.

That would be so nice. Kind of surprised Destiny doesn't do this, as Borderlands does, as well. Might not make sense in public spaces, but for the rest, it seems like a good idea.

I do feel like I was too harsh and there are times where I am impressed by the AI.

Mainly I've noticed this with the Fallen.

I swear I heard one speak english taunting me to come out when I was hiding one time. That was cool.

The bosses are dumber than a box of rocks tho.

I'd say Riksis is pretty close to just sitting in a cave and shooting at but he's the first boss so I can forgive it.

To be fair I have fought him a lot for bounties. We have a routine and understanding now, Riksis and I.

I'd say Riksis is pretty close to just sitting in a cave and shooting at but he's the first boss so I can forgive it.

To be fair I have fought him a lot for bounties. We have a routine and understanding now, Riksis and I.

Yeah...feels like a scam, almost. Roar and look menacing, then I'll hit you with a couple rockets and a sniper round to the head, then the Queen will pay us again.

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Think you missed the point there where he was solo.

3 or 4 minutes of co-op survival against waves of nasty adds whilst trying to get a few licks in on the moving super turret is fine for some of us I imagine. I always have a good time on that encounter now since I realised trying to solo weekly Strikes is foolish.

It is definitely foolish, but I've been forced into it several times when my matchmaking partners ditch. Not much fun. I wonder if people can join your game while you're fighting. It seems like it waits for you to die or reach the next area before adding anyone new.

We were running the Archon mission, and our third disappeared about halfway through. (Looked like he lagged out.) We played through just the two of us, got to the final area, cleared the first couple of waves, and the Archon appeared - and soon after, a third member appeared. He was instrumental in our timely completion of the mission. (We'd have done it, I'm sure - but it went much faster with 3.)

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