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Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities. (Destiny)

by Spec ops Grunt @, Broklahoma, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 09:26 (3471 days ago)

He knows the legends of the Black Garden despite just learning about the Vex.

He has access to the records of the Cryptarch and the resources of the Tower and Vanguard, yet is constantly confused. When you first find the Hive on earth he doesn't know its gonna be the Hive despite there being a lot of contact with the Hive already by the Vanguard, and a bunch of warning signs saying hey there is Hive here.


From /vg/:

On Mars, when you enter the Cabal bunker, your Ghost speaks as though there are Cabal inside-- not that there "might" or "could be" but that there ARE Cabal inside. He even tells you to avoid fighting them, implying some sneaking, or otherwise entirely different level structure in there than "empty hallway". You know what happens then; there are no Cabal in there, and he never makes any reference to them again. They show up only after you set off an alarm, being transported from elsewhere.<

He's constantly contradicting himself and going from knowing everything to being about as dumb as the player character is.


The story missions are so inconsistent. I firmly believe Staten leaving screwed up the campaign and Bungie could never figure out what to do with the plot so they gutted it.

It's a shame, and I wish Bungie would overhaul the story missions as part of a free systems overhaul.

I don't want Destiny 2, I want Destiny 1.2

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"Ah, I am a genius, hehehe"

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 10:05 (3471 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

- No text -

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Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities.

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:00 (3471 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

I assumed he's a little lying light.

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Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities.

by Lekku, Canada, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:01 (3471 days ago) @ dogcow

Don't do that.

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What if he was lying about knowing the Black Garden to

by Spec ops Grunt @, Broklahoma, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:12 (3471 days ago) @ Lekku

impress the Exo Stranger.


WHAT IF HE HAS THE HOTS FOR HER?

They are both robots....

by Monochron, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:59 (3471 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

Ship it. Better love story than Twilight. Etc.

They are both robots....

by scarab @, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 23:35 (3470 days ago) @ Monochron

Yeh, she gets to call him little light but you can't.

INCONSISTENCIES!

by Velociraptor112, Places., Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:03 (3471 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

Yet another flaw in Destiny's lackluster storyline.

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Or the story was gutted and makes no damn sense

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:20 (3471 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

I'd be embarrassed as hell if I was on the Bungie story team. It's atrocious in both content and presentation.

This guy seemed proud enough...

by Blue_Blazer_NZ, Wellington, New Zealand, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 19:32 (3470 days ago) @ Kahzgul

David Mongan - Senior Writer

After 3.5 yrs @ Bungie my work on #Destiny is done! Immensely proud of this project. It will change the gaming world. #OntoTheNextAdventure


From LinkedIn:

  • Worked closely with the Creative Director and key studio leads to develop the sci-fi/fantasy universe of “Destiny” and craft long-term story arcs & central characters capable of driving multiple releases.
  • Wrote scripts for performance-capture cinematics, narrative voice-over, in-game NPCs, mission dialog, as well as external advertising campaigns; also rewrote other writers’ scripts as necessary.
  • Managed and mentored a team of staff & contract writers: led the Writers Room, generated constructive creative feedback, oversaw team productivity, resolved disputes, gave performance reviews and career guidance.
  • Drove creative design of an integral mission delivery system aimed at increasing story comprehension; worked with Cinematics, Audio & Design to overcome technical hurdles and achieve implementation.
  • Engaged with artists and designers to build deep fiction for the game’s destinations and enemy combatants; then helped infuse that backstory into the fabric of every story mission and cinematic.

Was this guy actually seeing and working on the same game that we're playing now?

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He's certainly good at "punching up" his resume

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 21:37 (3470 days ago) @ Blue_Blazer_NZ
edited by Kahzgul, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 21:40

David Mongan - Senior Writer

After 3.5 yrs @ Bungie my work on #Destiny is done! Immensely proud of this project. It will change the gaming world. #OntoTheNextAdventure

Was this guy actually seeing and working on the same game that we're playing now?

Seriously, if the writing for this game were half as creative as his description of it, the story would be 10 times better than it actually is. How could such a clearly talented individual have so grossly failed to deliver anything remotely coherent in his game?

I really want to figure out what he's trying to describe here:

[*]Worked closely with the Creative Director and key studio leads to develop the sci-fi/fantasy universe of “Destiny” and craft long-term story arcs & central characters capable of driving multiple releases.

So he made long term story arcs but no short term ones. Got it. That makes sense, even if it's honest by omission. But... central characters? Which of the droids in the tower has "character?" Can you describe their personalities? Their hopes and dreams? What did they do 10 years ago and what will they be doing in 10 years? The only guy even close to having character is the Cryptarch, because he's a goddamn jerkhole who won't give me the loot he promised. But even that "personality trait" isn't the result of the writing!

[*]Wrote scripts for performance-capture cinematics, narrative voice-over, in-game NPCs, mission dialog, as well as external advertising campaigns; also rewrote other writers’ scripts as necessary.

...sigh. The script for Destiny is farking awful, and the fact that you are willing to take the blame is commendable. No no, the other writers didn't suck; I re-wrote their scripts to suck. That's leadership, I guess. You're a good candidate for middle-management, even if you are a god awful and embarrassing writer prone to insulting the intelligence of his own target audience.

[*]Managed and mentored a team of staff & contract writers: led the Writers Room, generated constructive creative feedback, oversaw team productivity, resolved disputes, gave performance reviews and career guidance.

More evidence that this guy would be a good mid-level manager. I've heard no complaints from the writers on the game, other than the fact that Joe Staten left (quit?) and he's the guy who made Bungie's stories so damn compelling. I'd love to see the internal memos on the disputes: "She doesn't have time!" "No, dude, she doesn't have time to EXPLAIN WHY SHE DOESN'T HAVE TIME! Read the storyboard!" Or this career guidance: "Don't ever work with me again. That's your best shot at a future."

[*]Drove creative design of an integral mission delivery system aimed at increasing story comprehension; worked with Cinematics, Audio & Design to overcome technical hurdles and achieve implementation.

This is just poppycock. The only "integral mission delivery systems" in the game are the text-based bounties which have no plot relevance whatsoever, and the patrol missions, which also have no plot relevance whatsoever. I mean, nothing in the game increases story comprehension, because the story is incomprehensible. Then there's this gem of "overcoming technical hurdles and achieving implementation" ... OF WHAT? What did you implement? You have a verb with no direct object! This is basic writing, and you claim to be a writer (your body of work claims otherwise), and you put this awkward and poorly formed sentence ON YOUR RESUME. Dear lord, help this child.

[*]Engaged with artists and designers to build deep fiction for the game’s destinations and enemy combatants; then helped infuse that backstory into the fabric of every story mission and cinematic.

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh god, the joke's on us. "Deep fiction?" "The fabric of every story mission?" Come ON. What's the backstory??? There isn't any. You get revived by a ghost who says you've been dead a long time and he'll explain later, and then... HE NEVER EXPLAINS. You can make your character an Awoken, and then after you go to Venus for the first time... YOU ESTABLISH CONTACT WITH THE AWOKEN. You keep encountering characters (I use this term lightly) who continually discuss how they could tell you a story or a legend or a fable or anything interesting, but they WON'T, and then you tell the Exo Stranger that you've "HEARD THE LEGENDS" of the black garden BEFORE YOU'VE HEARD THE LEGENDS OF THE BLACK GARDEN. Did you mean to write "I've heard the legends that there are legends of stuff in this game, BUT NO ONE WILL TELL THEM TO ME?" Because that's the game's writing, in a nutshell. There's more plot and story and character on the website than there is in the actual game.

David, if you ever read this, I'm sorry. I hope that you're a nice person in real life, and you can be big enough to admit that you and your team failed miserably with Destiny's story, characters, and "plot." If you did write something good, I'd love to read it, but I 100% guarantee it isn't in the game that shipped. I'm not mad at you, but I am surprised at the chutzbah and incredible hubris that your linkedin profile shows. If I were producing a game, and I saw that resume, knowing what I know about Destiny, I'd laugh in your face. It's okay to be proud of a project because you completed it, but it's not okay to mistake bad writing for good. You clearly have some talent because holy cow does your resume gild the lily. I wish that talent had been put to any use during the creation of Destiny.

Story is about character growth, plot development, overcoming the odds, revealing the truth, and struggling against your own fate. It is not about "kill 100 enemies without dying" nor is it about "I can't tell you why you're doing this." When JJ Abrams says mystery is the only compelling story left to tell, he's only half right; at some point the mysteries need to be revealed. Presenting action without resolution is always disappointing, even to action-game gamers. Bad Dudes had a better story that Destiny, because at the end, you got to have a burger with the President. In Destiny, you get a mote of light. From a guy who sells you stuff for 23 motes of light. F that guy. If I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and I want to, you spent 3.5 years coming up with an interesting universe for Destiny to play out in, and then had no idea whatsoever as to how to fit a game into that space.

And I'll be brutally honest here (as if I wasn't being so already): The universe isn't that great. It's incredibly short-sighted and racist. It plays on many archaic gaming tropes of "this race is evil" and "so is that race" and "also this race but you have to shoot them in the belly so they're different somehow." Give your audience some credit. Many of us have been gaming for our entire lives, and we expect more from a game than some sort of 4th Reich parable. Are the Guardians really the master race to annihilate all Fallen, Cabal, Hive and Vex? It's a weak and 1-dimensional premise. You had the opportunity to create entire alien civilizations, and instead you made basically the same enemy four times. The differences are their guns? Oh, and some Fallen can teleport to the side when you shoot them or be cloaked, while some cabal have shields or rockets or chain guns, the hive look scary and some of them hover, and oh yeah, the vex create bird poop if you kill them right.

The good parts of Destiny are the art, the sound, and the mechanics of moving around and shooting things. The bad parts are the size of the world and the total lack of story, character, and plot. There's no rising action, no climax, and no resolution. There's no backstory, barely a premise, and no hero's journey. There's no growth, no lesson, and no moral. No tragedy, scarcely any comedy (one funny joke, in fact, in the entire game, "little light"), no risk and the rewards... Well, the rewards are ephemeral at best and a smokescreen at worst. Writing a blurb for a gun does not a story make, my friend. "This gun was found in an airlock of an abandoned space station" bullshit. I found it in the head of a fallen Dreg on earth. None of it is coherent, cohesive, or coordinated with any other part of the game. Destiny is as it plays: Many different parts, poorly connected and without order. There is no reason to the rhyme, and as the poet, it was your job to set the meter.

You failed. But this linkedin resume is hilarious. I lol'd, and at the end of the day, isn't that what writing is all about?

I bookmarked your post :-)

by scarab @, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 23:32 (3470 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I like the idea that I might be, literally, shooting the shit out of the Vex (well they are partly biological so we could be shooting them in their colostomy bags). But that's not why I bookmarked your post. You hit many nails on the head.

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Harsh... but sadly, true.

by car15, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 23:56 (3470 days ago) @ Kahzgul

You make many excellent points, but I probably wouldn't have been so hard on the guy. He's not going to put "Worked on a monumentally disappointing story for 3.5 years" on his resume.

Destiny clearly went through a massive overhaul in 2013. It sounds like he did the best he could with the time and resources he had. By extension, it sounds like the entire team did the best they could with what they had. They're probably just relieved that they finished the game on time.

Let's try to keep criticism of Destiny focused on the game and criticism of Bungie focused on the studio.

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I do think senior management at Bungie deserves flack

by Spec ops Grunt @, Broklahoma, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 06:48 (3470 days ago) @ car15

I mean its obvious that programmers, artists, testers, etc put a lot of time and hours into Destiny.


That being said a lot of Destiny's problems I think come from senior level staff never working with a staff or project so big before. If the game did get overhauled in 2013 the fault for that lies squarely on the shoulders of the upper echelons. This includes a lot of grizzled ancients.

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I do think senior management at Bungie deserves flack

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 07:03 (3470 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

Nah, those guys know what they're doing. To imply that bungie has a bunch of inexperienced leadership now is laughable.

People give 343 a lot of shit for being in Bungie's shadow with Halo, but even Bungie themselves are still trying to get out of Halo's shadow.

AAA gaming, mang.....

At the end of the day, it's a business. These people need to make money to support themselves and their families too. I get that.


It's a product.

Because it's a product, you'er going to have clashes between the creative types and the executive types.

The Artist wants to give give give, create create create. The executive type needs to tone that back, so they have something to sell, something to stretch out to make as profitable as possible, for as long as possible.

If we got everything that Bungie wanted to give us, what incentive would we have to purchase extra content? Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free, etc. The only way these things will continue to make money, is if they can get you to keep playing.

The success of AAA gaming created it's own problems. Inventors only want to make money. They don't care if the product is shit or success, as long as people keep buying it. The artist just wants to make something cool, and make a little to keep making things, period.


Not every new game needs to have the same sales and player base that CoD and Halo have had to be successful.


Unfortunately, the people who have the money don't see it that way.

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I do think senior management at Bungie deserves flack

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 09:13 (3470 days ago) @ Revenant1988

Nah, those guys know what they're doing. To imply that bungie has a bunch of inexperienced leadership now is laughable.

Okay, then those guys know they put out a terrible story with poor design in a world that is far smaller than they advertised. The AI is generally poor, the enemies are all basically the same, and there's no character motivation or even sense of contribution to the world of the game.

They should be aware that the game has amazing art, music, sound, and gameplay mechanics. But they should own up to the crap story and terrible writing. They should also be aware of the incredibly amateur mistakes in the level design and execution, as well as the glaring omissions in the user interface.

Either they're feckless rookies who made some mistakes or they're complicit vets who should have known better. Neither is a thing I'd want to be. Both are things that have sullied the Bungie name and tarnished their image.

In the long term, Destiny may be the game that broke Bungie, not made it. If Bungie stays the course on this one, I predict fewer players buy the sequel, fewer still the one after that, and an eventual dwindling to nothing of the franchise, only to be recorded in history as one of the largest disappointments in gaming history.

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I do think senior management at Bungie deserves flack

by Revenant1988 ⌂ @, How do I forum?, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 10:33 (3470 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I think the theory that something drastic changed the story in the middle or towards the end of development where it was too late to "save" it.

If that's the case, I'd want to know what it was, out of curiosity.

But I'm not going to scold them them like children or tell them to fuck off, rather I'm just going to watch carefully for their future content and decided after it comes out if I want to get involved with it.

I'm not going to let the hype train derail my fun.

I feel that personally, I've had a better experience with Destiny than a lot of people here because I went in with minimal expectations.


This game is clearly a foundation setter. Gotta walk before you can run, dude.

If the mistakes aren't fixed or improved upon in the next title, then I won't buy it, and I won't come here anymore.

Simple as that.

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I do think senior management at Bungie deserves flack

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 13:47 (3470 days ago) @ Kahzgul
edited by Kermit, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 14:24


Either they're feckless rookies who made some mistakes or they're complicit vets who should have known better. Neither is a thing I'd want to be. Both are things that have sullied the Bungie name and tarnished their image.

Or maybe it's neither or some combination of things we don't know about. Maybe some things will gel later on, and we'll regard this first effort at Destiny's story differently.

I find the writing (and delivery) quirky. Quirky could be good and interesting, but unfortunately, Destiny's story is disjointed, too, so being quirky is a luxury they didn't quite earn.

I suspect the problem with Destiny's writing was a scaling issue, and I'm not really talking about staff, because I don't know about that. I suspect they wrote assuming that more content would make it into the first game, and scaled back such that what shipped didn't hang together as well as it might have had they'd known how much content they could deliver from the start. A ton of concept art was created and music was written before the actual game took form, and maybe it was the same for the writing, and finding the best way to use this content was the difficult part.

In a way, I think the ten-year-plan and ambition of the game hurt them because they could view this game as the foundation of what was to come, which enabled them to justify some deep cuts that hurt the first game's ability to exist as a stand-alone narrative.

Game development is hard. Bungie's games have come in hot before, and I think this was a bumpy landing for those of us who like story in their games. You don't always know, though. At Naughty dog they've said that The Last of Us didn't gel until the final weeks of development, and in retrospect that game seems pretty close to perfect to me--there's nothing I would change about it, but apparently important changes were made very late. Sometimes things come together. Destiny's story hasn't yet--for me, anyway. I'll say it again, though, the Grimoire cards are excellent.

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But the Grimoire cards aren't in the game

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 14:19 (3470 days ago) @ Kermit

And that's really a huge issue that I have with this. The bulk of story for Destiny is in the grimoire cards, in press releases, in interviews with the developers, and just is fundamentally not an actual part of what's in the game. I love that there's all of this mythos being conceived of, but it needs to be in the game!

With regards to scaling, I think you're right. I'd guess the publishers gave some hard deadlines, deep cuts had to be made, and the whole game was stitched together from the remaining pieces. Unfortunately, no one logic-proofed the dialogue or narrative that was left over, or they decided that a compelling story was not a thing the game needed. It's not an ideal situation, but as a developer you need to be able to adjust to these things. Other big budget games have been made with coherent narratives and compelling characters under similar circumstances, and this isn't Bungie's first rodeo with a major release, so any statements that the alleged 2013 shake-up is to blame for the poor writing just feel like cop-outs (do we even have actual proof that the shake-up happened outside of that possibly fake reddit thread?).

IMO, they were wrong to short-shrift the story. Story is what makes games stand out in their genre. It's a central thing. There will always be games that are mechanics-only, but those games aren't $60 games to me. They're iPhone games I play while pooping.

And, frankly, I've come to expect great writing from Bungie over the years. I've been playing their games since Pathways into Darkness, and Destiny is the first one that disappointed me. It's unfortunate that it was such a massive disappointment with such glaring errors and omissions, too. Someone at the top needed to die on this hill to save the story, and maybe that's what led Joe Staten to leaving; maybe he did die on that hill. But we don't know.

What we do know is that some guy is beaming with pride at having delivered a terrible script. And we know that I like to make fun of that guy.

In all likelihood, Bungie bit off more than they could chew here. Cross-platform development takes longer. The many promises made during development meant the dev team was constantly feeling like they weren't living up to expectations (plot and scale-wise, they didn't). There were obviously major internal issues given the departure of such important figures as Joe and Marty. Hell, even the fact that the Destiny website was all about pre-order sales for MONTHS before launch should have been a red flag. But I had faith in Bungie and, sadly, that faith was misplaced. The "game" elements are good. Good engine, good gameplay, good audio. The story elements suck balls. And the future looks bleak.

Everything I'm seeing says more of the same. The dev team is focusing on stopping exploits instead of fixing the bugs that make the exploits feel necessary. The xpacs look like more strikes, more boring "story" missions, and more bounties, without providing an improved experience. I look forward to the additional raids, but I'm tempering my expectations for these so-called "quests". They just sound like opt-in exotic bounties so far. Lots of text, little real content. I'm still waiting to hear a single legend in this game, and I'm still waiting to find out how, exactly, I "become legend."

The game is deeply flawed, and nothing I'm hearing from Bungie makes it sound like that's on their radar.

What's more, the game started with weekend events the first two weekends, and has had nothing at all since then. What gives? Is this game being supported or are the $20 per xpac add-ons all we can expect at this point? What happened to daily updates and an ever expanding universe?

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Yes, I know.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 14:43 (3470 days ago) @ Kahzgul
edited by Kermit, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 14:53

And that's really a huge issue that I have with this. The bulk of story for Destiny is in the grimoire cards, in press releases, in interviews with the developers, and just is fundamentally not an actual part of what's in the game. I love that there's all of this mythos being conceived of, but it needs to be in the game!

I've said before that I don't think that the problem is so much that they aren't in the game, but there isn't enough in the game for these to be the cool extras that they should be. And I'd be very proud to have written them.


What we do know is that some guy is beaming with pride at having delivered a terrible script. And we know that I like to make fun of that guy.

You do. I don't. Dave Mongan left Bungie in March. Did he even see the final cut? I doubt it. We know they were recording new material after the beta.

EDIT: BTW, he's now a senior narrative designer at Microsoft.

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Yes, I know.

by dogcow @, Hiding from Bob, in the vent core., Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 15:27 (3470 days ago) @ Kermit

Wait, what? They were still recording dialog after the beta? Holy crap! I only played the first two missions in the beta. How much could you see in the beta? Mars? Venus? The level cap was 8 right? Perhaps the recording was for the expansion?

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Yes, I know.

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 06:35 (3469 days ago) @ dogcow

Wait, what? They were still recording dialog after the beta? Holy crap! I only played the first two missions in the beta. How much could you see in the beta? Mars? Venus? The level cap was 8 right? Perhaps the recording was for the expansion?

this is why i think dinklage should be cut some slack. he got reamed in the press and on forums for "phoning it in." I wonder how many times they had to call him back to record more lines? Dude was probably fed up by the end of it.

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Yes, I know.

by DiscipleN2k @, Edmond, OK, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 07:37 (3469 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

this is why i think dinklage should be cut some slack. he got reamed in the press and on forums for "phoning it in." I wonder how many times they had to call him back to record more lines? Dude was probably fed up by the end of it.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, (I mean, I do love me some Tyrion), but if this was the case, you'd think there would be at least a couple of lines in there where it didn't sound like he just didn't care.

-Disciple

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Yes, I know.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 07:45 (3469 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

Wait, what? They were still recording dialog after the beta? Holy crap! I only played the first two missions in the beta. How much could you see in the beta? Mars? Venus? The level cap was 8 right? Perhaps the recording was for the expansion?


this is why i think dinklage should be cut some slack. he got reamed in the press and on forums for "phoning it in." I wonder how many times they had to call him back to record more lines? Dude was probably fed up by the end of it.

Maybe. I'm sure he was compensated well. I would love to know the direction he received. I'm one of those who doesn't think his performance is bad, but like the Grimoire cards, it's being asked to carry more weight than it should have been.

My theory is that they spent so much time world-building and back-story building and perhaps were so immersed in it that they lost sight of what we, the gamers new to this universe, don't yet know or don't yet care about, and in an effort to be subtle (or because they ran out of time or both) they didn't provide enough story for us to understand what was happening or care about it.

I think this lack was noticed, and that's why you have lines like "there is much you won't understand," "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain," and "I could tell stories ...." Those seem to me to be pretty transparent attempts to paper over the fact that the story, as delivered, doesn't tell enough.

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But the Grimoire cards aren't in the game

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 16:04 (3470 days ago) @ Kahzgul

Yeah, I don't think Destiny's state is the result of any one thing. Instead I think it was a combination of:

- Part trying to do something much bigger than they ever did before. Four consoles, a new much better game engine, much larger and more detailed playable spaces, and all the customizable class abilities and weapon perks. Destiny really does do a lot and does it extremely well. But maybe there was only so much that could be done well with even a ton of money and a longer development period?

- Part internal problems. Marty and Joe's leaving may have not affected things much, but maybe it did. Also, expanding to such a huge team may have hurt development a bit even as it allowed them to go bigger and better in many places. Right now I don't think Destiny suffered from a Halo 2 style development problems... the stuff that does work like core gameplay and ability balance and level design seems too strong to me for this to have happened... but then, would we have guessed that Halo 2's problems came about because it nearly crashed and burned if we hadn't been told so after the fact?

-Part trying to make a game with no central driving player characters. I wondered from the beginning at how Bungie would tell a good story when that story had to be general enough to support the existence of many heroes instead of just one or a few that every player played as. Also, even though The Master Chief was a quiet character, with Noble 6 and The Rookie being quieter still, each was clearly responsible for the story moving forward. Destiny, unfortunately, rarely acknowledges our Guardian's accomplishments and even then mostly does so after the fact through Grimoire cards.

- And, part by design. I don't think the shorter missions and fewer cutscenes are an accident or so much the result of cut content. I think Bungie was trying to build a game more friendly to both co-op play and mission repetition but took its sliming down of "distracting story" too far. Sure, we all ignored the stories of the Halos as we replayed them but perhaps removing story content for the player instead of allowing them to skip or ignore it themselves proved more controversial than they'd hoped?

I think Destiny still shows a lot of promise because its gameplay is very good and, despite problems in the story it presented, its backstory and universe are also very good. I think the question now is when will Destiny live up to what it should be? With "The Dark Below"? I don't think so. I think its release is too near to react to Destiny's criticisms. "The House of Wolves?" Maybe. I expect it to at least begin to show signs that Bungie gets the need for more front-facing story. If it doesn't... well then it's time to start worrying. Destiny 2? Hopefully. Bungie has a very strong base to build on. They "just" need to do so.

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Agreed

by Kahzgul, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 21:19 (3469 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Great post, and I hope you're right on all counts.

Understanding that there are sometimes extenuating circumstances doesn't lessen my disappointment, however.

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But the Grimoire cards aren't in the game

by RC ⌂, UK, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 05:27 (3469 days ago) @ Kahzgul

IMO, they were wrong to short-shrift the story. Story is what makes games stand out in their genre. It's a central thing. There will always be games that are mechanics-only, but those games aren't $60 games to me. They're iPhone games I play while pooping.

You've got this completely backwards here.

I just...

wow.

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But the Grimoire cards aren't in the game

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 07:55 (3469 days ago) @ RC

IMO, they were wrong to short-shrift the story. Story is what makes games stand out in their genre. It's a central thing. There will always be games that are mechanics-only, but those games aren't $60 games to me. They're iPhone games I play while pooping.


You've got this completely backwards here.

I just...

wow.

Yeah, I'm sure the Walking Dead has a great story, but I can't get past the lousy mechanics.

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Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities.

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:47 (3471 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

I noticed the other day that your Ghost seems to learn about the black garden from the mission where you go to the Ishtar Academy... which is after he tells the Stranger that you have heard the rumors about the black garden. It's sad that the story ended up the way it did. I hope they do better in the expansion.

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Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 11:49 (3471 days ago) @ Blackt1g3r

I hope they do better in the expansion.

It's cute how you think that's actually possible.

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Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities.

by Spec ops Grunt @, Broklahoma, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 12:01 (3471 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Especially when they basically said we give up on that have some bounties with flavor text instead.

Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities.

by scarab @, Tuesday, November 04, 2014, 23:42 (3470 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

Every time Dinklebot says we've heard the legends I say, "No I haven't. Nobody had the time to tell me the legends." They could have but they didn't.

I think I noticed the inconsistencies when I first played through but now I just do something else when unskippable story intrudes so I don't notice them.

Story missions are just a way of getting bounties so I only assess them in terms of difficulty and cheesing. The story is the last thing I think about.

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Ghost has amnesia or multiple personalities.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Wednesday, November 05, 2014, 07:00 (3470 days ago) @ scarab

Every time Dinklebot says we've heard the legends I say, "No I haven't. Nobody had the time to tell me the legends." They could have but they didn't.

This is course a burden on the video game. The player has to have some sort of knowledge of your character's motivation.

I've been trying to get a film off the ground for a few years based on a video game. In the game, it starts in the middle of something, and since the player wouldn't know what the main character is doing, one of he first things is an interaction with another character asking him if he has completed his task yet. The character is a major one, yet pretty much exists only for this purpose.

In the screenplay, this character is eliminated. The main character can do what he does, and the audience doesn't always have to know why. In fact, there's a bit of a dramatic irony now where we think he is doing one thing, but find out later it is something else. There are many many more ways to do this, and it is much more flexible when you audience is not directing the action.

It is entirely possible a lot happened 'off screen' in Destiny, and in a film this would be fine, as your main character can have knowledge your players don't. In a game, that doesn't work so well.

Cabal architecture

by HavokBlue, California, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 02:56 (3469 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt

Why are the entrances to the Cabal bunkers significantly smaller than the standard Cabal legionary morph?

Do they only expect psions to walk in and out of the bunkers?...

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Cabal architecture

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 06:36 (3469 days ago) @ HavokBlue

Why are the entrances to the Cabal bunkers significantly smaller than the standard Cabal legionary morph?

Do they only expect psions to walk in and out of the bunkers?...

I've wondered this too. The doors are smaller than the shields they carry too.

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Cabal architecture

by Kahzgul, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 10:02 (3469 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

Maybe the Cabal are all psion sized, and it's just their armor that's big? So the bunkers are for guys who aren't suited up all the way? Ooo - maybe psions are guys cabal guys without their power armor, and their psychic energy is actually what makes the armor work (hence no arc blasts while in armor).

Cabal architecture

by HavokBlue, California, Thursday, November 06, 2014, 16:24 (3469 days ago) @ Kahzgul

I don't think so. You can see the faces of the standard morph when you blow off their helmets.

Psions are also speculated to be not just a different genetic morph but a different species entirely in the grimoire cards.

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