https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uJCM1dLaisI

GG Bungie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uJCM1dLaisI

GG Bungie

You can pull off that jump, you deserve that cheese. That parkour is harder than the damn strike. I am not good at platforming.

I immediately had this thought when I saw they were "fixing the exploit" -- not because I feel the need to find my way in there to cheese it, but because one time when I was hiding under there, I fell to my death through that crack. Upon hearing about the fix, I figured it would only be a matter of time before someone tried to get in there that way.

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Except now, it fights back. :p

If the boss fights were actually doable instead of being grossly unfair one-shot death-fests, they wouldn't need cheesing to begin with. The fact of the matter is that Nightfall strike balance is terrible for final bosses, and the price of failure is far too steep (starting over from the beginning of the strike) for players to want to experiment with actual tactics. Cheese is safer, even though it's not fun at all.

Lately my buddies and I have been playing "chicken" so to speak, where one of us will try to complete the fight as per normal while the other two cheese it. If the one dies, a second runs out to save him and then runs back to the cheese spot. If two die, the third stays in cheese mode until they win. It's sad, but I feel like this is how all nightfall strikes will go for us, basically forever, since the game as intended is too time-intensive and feels like you die too often to RNG rather than player mistakes.

meh. I don't use that spot anyway. I hang near the entrance to the room and either peek out from there or attack from the ledge.

Restarting a hard level from the beginning is going to be frustrating no matter what. There was no investment system in Halo 2 but I played it super safe when trying to beat Legendary back in the day. I dislike Nightfall Strikes in Destiny because most of them have been utterly impossible to beat without cheating, and because they largely break Destiny's well tuned gameplay. Not because it was hard to get some experience or a random high level drop.

Simple test: If you magically took away the investment system would Nightfall still be too hard? For me, the answer is yes. Therefore the problem isn't really the investment system.

I saw somebody use that spot once. I just stayed outside and bucked wild(which makes me feel good, realizing that I'm a lot better than I thought).

Anyway, at one point he died(somehow) and since there's no respawn, I went to go save him, and the soft-kill zone ended up killing me, too.

There was another instance like that on Valus Ta'arc, which actually singlehandedly saved our asses. This guy hid out in a small space where he {was bonedley surrounded, but) couldn't be hurt by virtually anything--not even the Boss Stomp. Took him forever while two of us watched, but he eventually died and spared us another hour of B.S.

And Kazghul is right--we wouldn't be cheesing our f--ing brains out right now if the strikes(Winter's Run specifically) weren't so goddamn difficult and (in the case of Nightfall) unfairly punishing. I understand the challenge that's needed in stuff like that, and I appreciate it, but there's a difference between challenges and clusterfucks.

I think the first idea that comes to mind is to space out enemies. I remember Archon once teleported right in front of me. To avoid getting Stomped, I turned and sprinted. As I looked around, there were 4/5 Shanks and a Sniper Vandal on the ledge above the cheese, 6 more at the cell opening, accompanied by at least 3 Stealth Vandals and a few normal Vandals and Dregs in the caves above AND below.

Oh, and friggin' Lightswitch was on.

That's way too much. So I say, 30-60 seconds of open arena between spawning TWO groups of enemies, not three, not fucking SIX...

Another scenario, I was actually prepared one time as I pointed a Rocket Launcher at the spawn doors for the Stealth Vandals in the bottom floor caves. Swear to God, they spawned at every other door EXCEPT the one I was ready for. That's not right!!
So we need occasional spots to cheese where we'll either have a chance, or at least help a lower level player along with their XP--not EXPLOITING the game, just relieving (ourselves of) it. A place where we can recharge our shields, reload all our weapons and maybe be the last hope for your fireteam when all is lost. We need cheeses.

And another thing, if I eve--

......

(now cooking cheeseburger while listening to Cheeseburger)

Why call it cheesing? Because it's fon to due.

True enough. The difference is that I feel like I *have* to do the weekly Nightfall strikes to have a shot at getting better gear in order to, eventually, be able to do them without cheesing. Eventually.

Valus T'arc:
Back left corner from where you enter the room is an area blocked off by a bunch of crates and a ramp. You can jump in between the crates and back wall or the ramp and the wall and cheese from there. Room for the whole fireteam!

Winter's Run:
As shown in this thread, under the platform. There's also a spot on the rocky ledge where you enter the boss area where the enemies will rarely, if ever, hit you.

Nexus:
You can jump behind the wall that's just below and to the right of where you enter the boss room. This is almost totally safe during add spawns, but killing the boss from here takes FOREVER so between add waves I recommend jumping out.

Devil's Lair:
Not really cheese, but you're safest in the room to the left of the entrance to the boss area. Adds won't ever enter that room for some reason, though they'll still shoot into it.

Dust Palace:
This won't be a nightfall strike until Xboxers can play on it, so don't worry about it. Mostly you just stay on the back walkway and snipe - there's no cheese spot I'm aware of.

Phogoth (what's this strike called?):
Stay in the room before the room Phogoth is in and snipe from there. When the shrieker spawns (and yellow adds), run back to the previous room and wait for them to despawn.

Since there are such effective cheese spots for all strikes, I really assumed that Bungie designed them with cheesing in mind. I'd seriously love to see some Bungie videos of the *intended* way to defeat each nightfall strike.

I know it's a feeling... but at some point you're just plain wrong. The only thing I've gotten from a Nightfall Strike is one of my two Thunderlords. The second one came from someplace else. All my pile of exotics came from someplace else. All my characters' armors came from other places. You don't have to play a mode you don't like...

You could also have the other two hop to orbit and back again, thus substantially increasing the cheese, but making it slightly more fun for the dead guys.

I can already envisage one of the next patch's fixes.

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Devil's Lair:
Not really cheese, but you're safest in the room to the left of the entrance to the boss area. Adds won't ever enter that room for some reason, though they'll still shoot into it.

Not always true. The other night I was going for a death-free strike and a captain came up the stairs behind me.

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Why would you cheese (a word I'm still learning the definition of) when you could have fun? Letting the investment system alter the way you play is your choice, not Bungie's. All the loot and bounties, etc. are just incentives for me to go have fun.

This is how I play the game.

1. "What should I do today?"
2. Go look at bounties, dailies, find something to do.
3. Go do that, usually get into some kind of hijinks or distracted by something else fun.
4. Turn in bounties and upgrade stuff if I can and go to sleep.

The point of the game for me is number 3, not number 4. I think humans just tend to naturally get addicted to rewards and lose sight of the quest - the thing that makes the rewards mean something.

Why would you cheese (a word I'm still learning the definition of) when you could have fun? Letting the investment system alter the way you play is your choice, not Bungie's. All the loot and bounties, etc. are just incentives for me to go have fun.

Because, engaging with the investment system is tied to your ability to have fun. Go run the raid on hard without gear and tell me how much fun that is. I don't want an incentive to have fun: just let me have fun. The investment system is a hoop to jump through before you can have fun.

This is how I play the game.

1. "What should I do today?"
2. Go look at bounties, dailies, find something to do.
3. Go do that, usually get into some kind of hijinks or distracted by something else fun.
4. Turn in bounties and upgrade stuff if I can and go to sleep.

This is amusing, because the bounties are all unimaginative filler bullshit :-p

Why would you cheese (a word I'm still learning the definition of) when you could have fun? Letting the investment system alter the way you play is your choice, not Bungie's. All the loot and bounties, etc. are just incentives for me to go have fun.

Because, engaging with the investment system is tied to your ability to have fun. Go run the raid on hard without gear and tell me how much fun that is. I don't want an incentive to have fun: just let me have fun. The investment system is a hoop to jump through before you can have fun.

I didn't need Destiny's investment system for incentives at all until after something like a month or two of playing. Now that I've spent so much time in it, I like having something to point me in a direction to jumpstart my own path. If ODST had come with some daily bounty things, it would have extended the life of it for me, because after I had run out of ideas after many playthroughs, I would have had a little jumpstarter tool to help inspire me to find more fun in places I hadn't tried before. Reach's campaign challenges sometimes led to a lot of fun after I had already played levels to death on their own, and I wasn't doing it for credits to buy armor.

Sometimes I can sit down and draw something. Sometimes I need to look at a book or a magazine to inspire me. That's what Daily Missions and Bounties are to me.

As for hoops, beating a level before you get to the next one is a hoop. Or any game that has any unlocking moves, weapons, etc. So something like 90% of all games ever made have hoops. And Destiny's hoops don't get in the way of my fun. I've never tried the Raid on hard because that doesn't sound like fun to me in the first place, personally.

This is how I play the game.

1. "What should I do today?"
2. Go look at bounties, dailies, find something to do.
3. Go do that, usually get into some kind of hijinks or distracted by something else fun.
4. Turn in bounties and upgrade stuff if I can and go to sleep.

This is amusing, because the bounties are all unimaginative filler bullshit :-p

Well, I'm glad my enjoyment is amusing to you? I... guess I'm too stupid to realize the filler bullshit I'm steeped in?

Valus T'arc:
Back left corner from where you enter the room is an area blocked off by a bunch of crates and a ramp. You can jump in between the crates and back wall or the ramp and the wall and cheese from there. Room for the whole fireteam!

I just wanted to add that there's another similar area under the other ramp, on the same left-hand side of the room. If it's clear enough on the outside, you can move between the two when Valus moves from one end of the room to the other, so that you can still hit him. Or, with more than one player, you could just have someone stay at each end.

As for hoops, beating a level before you get to the next one is a hoop.

This isn't true. A level is a challenge. You've mastered the challenge? Here's another challenge!

Each level is fun for its own sake. Getting to play level 2 after you play level 1 is merely the continuation of the fun. They are ordered because a well designed game gets harder and harder as players master more and more of it.

As for hoops, beating a level before you get to the next one is a hoop.

This isn't true. A level is a challenge. You've mastered the challenge? Here's another challenge!

Each level is fun for its own sake. Getting to play level 2 after you play level 1 is merely the continuation of the fun. They are ordered because a well designed game gets harder and harder as players master more and more of it.

Yeah, that's exactly like I see Destiny.

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High rank units would spawn there and rush to the entrance hallway. They would also spawn in the other end off the hall and murderize people hiding in the hallway.

You will be OK if you are high level enough to kill Sepkis fast perhaps before the (3rd?) Wave starts.

Why would you cheese (a word I'm still learning the definition of) when you could have fun?

I feel I reply with this answer far too many times:
"You cheese in Destiny because it LEADS to more fun".

Why did I spend hours at the Holy Cave? To get a legendary weapon which SIGNIFICANTLY increased my fun in the crucible and PvE. Why did I cheese the Arkon Preist? Because it gave me Gjallahorn which is BONKERS FUN! Shooting my Gjallahorn and watching the wolve pack rounds annihilate everythign nearby gives me an inordinate amount of joy.

If Bungie is going to put the "fun" things behind RNG and monumentally difficult (read: unfun) tasks, then yes I am going to cheese them.
Nuf said.

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Nexus:
You can jump behind the wall that's just below and to the right of where you enter the boss room. This is almost totally safe during add spawns, but killing the boss from here takes FOREVER so between add waves I recommend jumping out.

I haven't tried it on Nightfall difficulty, but I find some of the geometry on the level is fairly safe to stand on where Sekrion doesn't really have a way to shoot at you. You still have to worry about adds a bit though.

You're 100% right. In fact, the only exotic gear I've gotten from nightfall is a helmet I already had. But the shards and energies... I have a major need for those.