update from Urk on heavy ammo bug

for those that may not have know: if you have armor that gives you extra heavy ammo, you actually lose heavy ammo upon death, going to orbit, and after cutscenes. urk has commented on reddit that this particular bug is very difficult to fix, and they are taking their time so they don't break something else in the process.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2pl3t2/daily_reminder_losing_heavy_on_death/

"We know about this and we're working on it. It may seem like a trivial fix with a simple solution from the outside looking in, but the reality is that this particular bug could create some very serious issues if it's not handled correctly. It's particularily pernicious and systemic from what I told, so the team wants to take time with it so as not to do more harm than good with a premature or untested solution.

We know this is a frustrating bug and we know waiting for a fix isn't super fun. But it's going to be a while yet before we can address it with confidence. The team will keep you posted as/if/when they make progress."

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for those that may not have know: if you have armor that gives you extra heavy ammo, you actually lose heavy ammo upon death, going to orbit, and after cutscenes. urk has commented on reddit that this particular bug is very difficult to fix, and they are taking their time so they don't break something else in the process.

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2pl3t2/daily_reminder_losing_heavy_on_death/

"We know about this and we're working on it. It may seem like a trivial fix with a simple solution from the outside looking in, but the reality is that this particular bug could create some very serious issues if it's not handled correctly. It's particularily pernicious and systemic from what I told, so the team wants to take time with it so as not to do more harm than good with a premature or untested solution.

We know this is a frustrating bug and we know waiting for a fix isn't super fun. But it's going to be a while yet before we can address it with confidence. The team will keep you posted as/if/when they make progress."

The sooner they put this kind of info on the front page the better. Always.

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Huh, that's interesting - didn't know it was a thing. Whenever I start a mission, match, etc., I'm always looking for ammo. I've never really thought about Destiny actually carrying over my ammo between orbits. Never taken those numbers for granted. Maybe this is why. Or maybe I just die a lot!

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Huh, that's interesting - didn't know it was a thing. Whenever I start a mission, match, etc., I'm always looking for ammo. I've never really thought about Destiny actually carrying over my ammo between orbits. Never taken those numbers for granted. Maybe this is why. Or maybe I just die a lot!

Another reason why you are ill equipped to understand all the 'hardcore' players' frustration :-p

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Huh, that's interesting - didn't know it was a thing. Whenever I start a mission, match, etc., I'm always looking for ammo. I've never really thought about Destiny actually carrying over my ammo between orbits. Never taken those numbers for granted. Maybe this is why. Or maybe I just die a lot!

Another reason why you are ill equipped to understand all the 'hardcore' players' frustration :-p

Or maybe, never taking those numbers for granted, and relying on my base skill, no matter what I have access to, is MORE 'hardcore'! :^]-{-<

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Yeah... From the pre launch days I remember talk about not starting with heavy ammo. What I'm remembering might have been directed at the Crucible but it didn't seem so strange for it to apply elsewhere. There's a message here somewhere... Ignorance is bliss? Hardcore = unhappiness? Buy heavy ammo synths? Something like that...:p

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Buy heavy ammo synths? Something like that...:p

yeah, b/c the work around is to spend 950 glimmer on something that gets negated if you die, and forces you to wait 5 minutes before you can use it again.

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Buy heavy ammo synths? Something like that...:p

yeah, b/c the work around is to spend 950 glimmer on something that gets negated if you die, and forces you to wait 5 minutes before you can use it again.

Other Potential Solutions:
1. Don't die.
2. Invest a couple of weeks to buy equivalent armor that does not mess with your heavy ammo.
3. Delete your character and start a new one who never accepts a heavy weapon making heavy ammo moot.
4. Snap you Destiny disk in half. (This may be harder if you bought digital...)

More seriously, I'd like the bug to be fixed too now that I know about it. :)

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See http://imgur.com/p7eHAkB.

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All joking aside, it would be interesting if there WAS debuff armor, and wearing it granted significant XP boosts or something for your troubles.

Nightfall Armor?

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All joking aside, it would be interesting if there WAS debuff armor, and wearing it granted significant XP boosts or something for your troubles.

Nightfall Armor?

In Warframe, there are four debuffs called "Dragon Keys", that you can equip to unlock vaults hidden somewhere during a number of missions. These vaults contain exclusive mods that you can sell for real fake money, so if you get good at playing a mission with only 25% health, you could potentially earn lots of Platinum (Premium currency) in a short time... or you could find and keep an ultra rare mod.

Maybe Destiny could use debuff-armor missions for great rewards... Crota's End does a great job of this with the Darkness Run, as your whole team is debuffed in numerous ways, and simply making it to point B from A yields rewards.

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My guess as to why this is hard to fix would be how Bungie actually handles ammo count. Because you can switch out weapons in the slot with varying degrees of ammo capacity, you can;t just have the ammo count as an integer. You can also tell this because you get more ammo on pickup when you have the heavy ammo perks.

It seems to me that it is stored as a percentage of maximum or something like that. That way when you switch weapons in the primary slot, it can keep the same amount of ammo in relation to the max. When you respawn, it recalculates the percentage and gets confused when the armor perks are applied.

I'm still not sure though why dying would have an effect. The only time things would need to be recalculated is when you fire a weapon, switch out weapons, ammo regen on icebreaker or invective takes effect, pick up ammo (or use a synth), or take off armor which gives you bonuses.

I'm not mad, just genuinely curious as to why calculations are done at other times and after death.

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I still not entirely sure of what the problem is. Aren't we supposed to lose ammo when we die anyway?

Well, one thing I thought that might be breaking it might be that the flag that tells the game you have the perk is conflicting with the flag that tells you do/don't have full capacity, so the calculator gets mixed signals and blunders.

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I still not entirely sure of what the problem is. Aren't we supposed to lose ammo when we die anyway?

No. You aren't at all. Plus, this bug causes you to lose ammo when you go to orbit and when a cutscene happens as well.

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Wait, you aren't supposed to lose ammo on death? I'm all for fixing bugs that make the game go for easy to hard, but when this is fixed maybe they can put it in an "easy" mode. Losing my heavy ammo is my primary reason for not dying. I'm afraid of what y life will be if they fix this...

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I'm still not sure though why dying would have an effect. The only time things would need to be recalculated is when you fire a weapon, switch out weapons, ammo regen on icebreaker or invective takes effect, pick up ammo (or use a synth), or take off armor which gives you bonuses.

My guess is that your character, along with their gear, stats, and ammo, is reloaded/rebuilt each time you respawn. It probably does something like this:

1. Load base stats

2. Load abilities/class perks

3. Load equipped weapons (ammo amount probably gets set at this stage, based on whatever percentage of max you had before dying)

4. Load equipped armor

Probably the ammo perk doesn't get loaded until stage 4, and your max does get increased, but it doesn't necessarily scale your CURRENT amount up to that max (because if it did, people would get free extra ammo whenever they put that armor on). Because the actual ammo amount was already set in stage 3 and is now LESS than this new max, you have effectively "lost" ammo.

Maybe the same process occurs during cutscenes.

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My guess is that your character, along with their gear, stats, and ammo, is reloaded/rebuilt each time you respawn.

But why? I see no need. The data is already in memory. If you've changed nothing, why rebuild? I guess my point is that I want to know why those variables are touched in any other circumstances than the ones I listed.

Again, I know very little about programming, so this is simply a question by which to further educate myself. It's not an accusation.

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My guess is that your character, along with their gear, stats, and ammo, is reloaded/rebuilt each time you respawn.

But why? I see no need. The data is already in memory. If you've changed nothing, why rebuild? I guess my point is that I want to know why those variables are touched in any other circumstances than the ones I listed.

Again, I know very little about programming, so this is simply a question by which to further educate myself. It's not an accusation.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the easiest way to respawn your character. Depending on the design, your character's physical model could be a part of the object and rebuilding it may just be the way they originally handled respawning you. It's impossible to know how they designed their system. That's the beauty/horror of code - it's all a construction of the programmer's mind so it's entirely dependent on how they think about things.

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My guess is that your character, along with their gear, stats, and ammo, is reloaded/rebuilt each time you respawn.

But why? I see no need. The data is already in memory. If you've changed nothing, why rebuild? I guess my point is that I want to know why those variables are touched in any other circumstances than the ones I listed.

Again, I know very little about programming, so this is simply a question by which to further educate myself. It's not an accusation.

Often it's simpler to run everything from the beginning again rather than making assumptions about state or setting flags and message-passing and all that sort of thing.

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On more than one occasion, I selected and used a Heavy Synth, and not only did I not get any ammo, it still counted for a 5 minute cooldown. Needless to say, I was pissed that the Public Event went south because of it.

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This happens to me ALL THE FREAKIN TIME! And no, I'm not dead or anything like that. Running around, use it, wait, what? no ammo from that? check that I actually used it, oh, yeah, it's on cooldown. AUGH!

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Is your consumables inventory full? If you don't have an open slot there, the synths will not work.

- CC

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Is your consumables inventory full? If you don't have an open slot there, the synths will not work.

- CC

It's not, but that's bullcrap regardless. Not to mention, that stuff is SUPER expensive.

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Is your consumables inventory full? If you don't have an open slot there, the synths will not work.

- CC

It's not, but that's bullcrap regardless. Not to mention, that stuff is SUPER expensive.

Buy with Strange coins for Xur. Shame he didn't have them this week, but that's really the way to go.

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Buy with Strange coins for Xur. Shame he didn't have them this week, but that's really the way to go.

Ooh, lord no. I'm not gonna pass up on the slim chance of a Last Word or some other armor I could use for a box that'll go to waste in (again) 5 yanks.

I can boost Glimmer. I cannot boost Strange Coins. That's literally a paycheck-to-paycheck situation there.

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It's not currently, but it certainly could have been. I had forgotten about that bug, thanks for the reminder.

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Oh, that's the trigger? I wondered what was going on - so many people have said they've had this bug, and yet it's never happened to me. My consumables inventory has never been full, so this makes sense now.

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update from Urk on heavy ammo bug (Destiny)

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