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DE puts Bungie to shame with a "Persistent World". (Destiny)

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 10:15 (3342 days ago)
edited by Korny, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 10:51

It's time for the weekly "Korny won't shut up about Warframe" thread. This one will discuss a topic that bugs me more and more each month. Out of the gate, Destiny was hyped to be a "persistent world", and Bungie never made any attempt to counter or clarify that claim.

Almost seven months down the road, and the only change to the game world has been the Crota content: A few MP maps, four short story missions, a bug-riddled Raid, some new gear, and UI/Interaction tweaks. Which is frustrating, because needed improvements were easy to find and call out during the game's Alpha, and to date, almost none have even been talked about, much less addressed:

From my Alpha writeup:

It may have just been an Alpha thing (which I may end up saying a lot), but it did feel like some vital features were missing from the options menu...

  • Audio- The music in Destiny is amazing, bombastic, and constant... Which may be a problem for some players... I loved the ambient noises, whether it's hearing a firefight outside of the building that I'm in, or when I'm reloading inside of a quiet cave, the audio design in the game is hands down the BEST that I've ever heard. Crisp clean sound and environmental effects. Unfortunately, a lot of this gets drowned out by the music, and having the option to turn it off (or at least turn it down) would be greatly appreciated. Sliders for voices, effects, and music would be ideal.
    -Also, one of the settings allows mic voices to come through the speakers, but the game still makes voices extremely difficult to hear. Prioritizing microphone volume should be an option.
  • HUD elements- While the HUD isn't cluttered by any means, I'd like to have more control over it. The option to disable HUD elements is extremely important, whether it's disabling the Radar, having ammo or XP bars fade out when not in use would be nice, and would assist in taking great screenshots. Being able to reduce the size or opacity of HUD elements would also be appreciated, as screens come in many sizes. (see: Battlefield 4)
    -Also of importance, the ability to turn off damage feedback and enemy health bars should be given as an option. While seeing numbers fly off an enemy that you shoot is extremely helpful when assessing combat situations and weapon efficiency, it does hurt immersion somewhat. (see: Dead Island)
  • Colorblind settings- This doesn't apply to me, and from what I've seen, the game does a pretty good job of avoiding common color clashes, but it's nice to keep other people in mind.
  • Queuing- Besides being able to join the fireteam, it would be very useful if we could queue up to join whenever an opening in the game becomes available.


I hate to sound like someone else here, but this is super basic stuff, and the fact that it's taken this long for some of these issues to even be addressed is really unacceptable.

But I'm going off on a tangent. Back to the topic at hand. Persistent World.

Even with the addition of Crota's End, nothing has really changed in the world of Destiny. The only permanent change has been the appearance of Eris, and her ship (and the loot cave Easter Egg, but that doesn't count). Literally everything else in the game has remained unaffected.

Now let's go take a look at what Digital Extremes has done with Warframe. But in order to understand, some quick lore info and summaries of player-driven events are required. While there are many different stories and arcs in the Warframe lore, we'll focus on a single one: The Fomorian arc, and Councilor Vay Hek.

There are multiple enemy factions in the game, two of the Primary factions are the Grineer, and the Corpus.
[image]


The Grineer can best be compared to Halo's Covenant. Scavengers. Immitative rather than innovative. Powerful ships and large invasions had helped them conquer the Solar System, until turmoil and War pushed them out to the edges of the System:

To a man, the Grineer are a race of clones; products of ancient, half-remembered technologies. Copies of copies, Grineer are produced in industrial quantities, and all Grineer are genetically defective, their genome damaged by the invasive cloning procedures used to birth each generation. However, these defects are as mass-produced as the Grineer themselves, allowing for the rapid standardization of techno-augmetic adaptation between such generations. Indeed, it could be argued that the Grineer are better at fixing broken bodies than they are at making ones that function to begin with. Their homeworld is a ruined, uninhabitable Earth. They are people acting on an ultimate xenophobia, fueled by hereditary madness, and a burning hate of anything and anyone not like themselves. In the end, should they succeed, there will only be Grineer left alive in the solar system.

In some of their lore, there is mention of massive ships that the Grineer used for war: Fomorians (Think CSO-class supercarriers), powerful warships that could help them regain control of the countless territories that they'd lost over time.

Another major faction is the Corpus. They can somewhat be compared to Halo's Prometheans, in that they have advanced technologies that help counter their lower numbers, but they hold no real allegiance. Profit is their one true driving force, and they'll readily ally themselves with either the Grineer or Tenno (players) if it suits their needs:

The Corpus are a conglomeration of commercial and industrial interests unified by a single trade language and a common goal - the acquisition and trading of ancient Orokin technologies and Warframes.

  • Sling-Stone Event-(July 2013)

    In the game's early days, the majority of planets were controlled by the Corpus. The Grineer became aware of Orokin (think Forerunner) artifacts that were both extremely powerful and valuable, and decided to fight the Corpus for their control. They launched attacks with their legendary Fomorian ships, and it led to a major event where players had to help the Corpus push back the assault and stop the Grineer by doing a series of sabotage infiltrations to disable (and destroy) the Fomorian fleet.

    The community FAILED the event, and the Grineer gained control of many territories (though players were able to disable/destroy a sizeable portion of the fleet), which provided them with enough resources to be taken seriously by the Corpus, and a quasi-truce was struck, as business arrangements and contracts were made.

  • The Gradivus Dilemma- (October 2013)
    Alad V of the Corpus has discovered a cache of Tenno in cryosleep and intends on exploiting them for his secret weapons project. The Grineer are outraged at this contract violation. They are using this as an excuse to invade Corpus space, enslave the local population, and grow their power. The Lotus is your guide but not your conscience. You will have to choose which side to support:
    Choose Loyalty, and side with the Grineer to destroy Corpus forces and free your kin. Choose Sacrifice, siding with Corpus to halt the Grineer conquest and enslavement of colonies. Both sides have reached out to the Lotus with reward offers for each contested location as well as rewards for the conflict as a whole.


    This is the turning point of how successful Digital Extremes has been in merging changes and additions to the game with the lore and events. And where Bungie should start paying attention.



    The Grineer began to wage War against the Corpus, and a new gametype was added: Invasions. Players were tasked with picking a side to support (each side offered different rewards and promises, and players directly affected the outcome of the event).
    [image]

    The Event was massive, and even existed outside of the game proper, with the Faction leaders exchanging taunts (and bringing new insight into some of the lore) on the Warframe Forum. Ultimately, players opted to side with the Grineer, which gave them even more resources and power. Though the event was over, the Invasions continued (and are ongoing to this day), often providing players with opportunities at extremely rare resources.
    [image]

    I noticed at one point how our own greed manipulated us, because a player doesn't think about the long-term consequences of his actions. For 10,000 more credits, or for a rare resource, players were willing to help the Grineer (or Corpus) gain control of a sector, which slowly gave the Grineer more control and resources.

    On top of this, a rare and powerful weapon could only be gained by killing a certain enemy that only had a chance to hunt players if they sided with the Grineer during invasions, which players did, causing the Corpus to lose a huge amount of territory on the game map.

    The Grineer were becoming more and more powerful, and it was all because of the players.

  • Tethra's Doom-(March 2014)
    Vay Hek is rebuilding the Fomorian Fleet. His aim is nothing less than complete domination of the Origin System. Thousands of these monstrous ships are in production. The Grineer will become unstoppable if they are completed. We must not let this happen.

    This event introduced the Hijack gametype to the game, where players must guide a heavily-guarded Fomorian Core across a map while fighting off the enemy. The catch is that the core can only be moved by players letting the mechanism sap their shields, making them extremely vulnerable while they move the core. Coordination and teamwork are essential. The event also had exclusive items that became extremely valuable due to their usefulness (the game includes a trade system between players), which was something seen to a lesser extent in previous events, but now the items truly were exclusive, and to date are extremely expensive in Trades.

    A consequence of players' actions, the Tenno had to deal with a reinvigorated Grineer force, but players were successful in completing this event's objectives, which cost the Grineer enough resources that they had to make scattered deals with the Corpus again (and ostensibly bringing an end to the Fomorian threat.

  • Archwing- (October 2014)
    What's a feature that people have been clamoring for from Destiny that Bungie introduced in Reach? Space Combat.
    Guess what game got Space combat? Warframe. Through a new quest, the Archwing was introduced. Players had to piece together the pieces of the Archwing as they investigated suspicious goings-on between the Corpus and Grineer. The final mission in the quest brought everything to a head in a pretty awesome way:


Note how references to earlier events come into play. The world has been constantly changing since day 1, but the characters acknowledge these events, rather than Destiny's stagnant tower characters.

  • In early December 2014, seven different Relays were introduced to the game. Relays are similar to Destiny's Tower (a trader that makes occasional visits, Faction representatives, Stores), but are promising to be more expansive, as they allow up to 100 players in one instance, allow people to build teams for different missions, and with the most recent update have received a Grimoire Library of sorts that will be community-driven (based on scanning special enemies throughout the System)...
    The different Relays have different barriers to entry, such as the low-level Mercury (Larunda Relay) allowing anyone to stop by and trade; compared to Pluto (Orcus Relay), which requires a Mastery Rank of 8 for entry (unless you get Taxi'd by a party leader). This helped people find ideal player groups with which to play with and chat. DE has gone in depth about the expansions and value that they want to add to the relays, which has given players a lot to look forward to.

  • The Eyes of Blight- (December 2014)
    Vay Hek is making his move. We have just detected a Balor Fomorian traveling on an interception course with Vesper Relay. The beast moves slowly but if we allow it to get within firing range, it will surely obliterate our new Relay. We need to destroy it before that happens.

    This video describes the event in a pretty concise way. What's great about the events is that they are either unique, one-off gametypes, tweaks to existing missions, or they introduce brand new missions to the game that will remain. This event was one of the one-offs, but did use existing resources and gametypes to enhance it.

  • This is the most recent event, and one that will stick with me for a good while. LISTEN UP, BUNGIE!

    Players only had a little over a week to level their Archwing, and many had no warning that it would be required for the next event, so they weren't ready. The PC folk got the event first, and though they managed to band together and save Mercury, they couldn't do the same for Venus. Then they lost the Earth Relay. This sent waves of panic throughout the community, and by the time the event was over, the PC crowd had lost four of their seven relays before they could destroy all of the Fomorians. When the event came to consoles, it was full of anxiety and tension. The Xbox crowd lost Mercury. PS4 saved it. They lost Earth and Saturn. We mopped the floor with the Fomorians on those worlds...
    But then we got sloppy. I can't remember what happened, but when the attack on Europa (Leonov Relay) only had three hours to finish, and the Fomorian was still at 24% health, People started panicking on all of the chat networks. "Save Europa!" became a rallying cry, and people desperately looked to find fireteams that could run the missions. High-level players did their best to carry their low-level teams, and Clans were asking their members to drop what they were doing and run the Event.
    Two hours to go, and the Fomorian was still at 18% health. A feeling of dread was setting in. People on the chats were getting angry that people weren't succeeding at the mission, or were off doing other things. "RIP Europa" was becoming more common as people grew annoyed at the requests to fight for a doomed relay. Then we lost it (though the Xbox Crowd had banded together after two losses and saved theirs). People grew discouraged as the event grew more difficult, and I can't remember what else happened, but though we barely saved the Relay after Europa, we lost the final three assaults.

    And just like the PC crowd, we too only have three relays left (Xbox folk managed to save the top-tier Pluto relay, which I find impressive). Vay Hek taught the community some humility... Now we have to teach him a different lesson.

  • The Law of Retribution. (March 2015)
    Tenno are out for vengeance, and Grineer Councilor Vay Hek has nowhere left to hide. Hot on his trail after the assault on Relays during Eyes of Blight, the Lotus will guide a precision strike force to hunt down and put an end to Vay Hek once and for all. Be wary Tenno. Numbers alone will not protect you when diving into the heart of Grineer military power.

    An 8-Player Raid is being introduced to Warframe, tasking players with the assassination of Vay Hek, ending the Fomorian arc introduced to the game two years ago. Unlike Destiny's raids, this is an assault on an enemy that we've not only gotten to know, but that we have a personal score to settle with. And upon success of the raid, the event will have a permanent impact on the game's Universe.

And this one chain of events is just part of the list of major events that have shaped what the game world is now. And I haven't even mentioned that Clans have incentive to participate in these events, as they can win large trophies that they can permanently display in their Dojo (Clan Relay), as well as a permanent spot on the event leaderboard.

Though I played Warframe early on, I didn't find the game enjoyable enough to get into it, but I definitely saw the potential. And DE has certainly felt the same way, as the game is already on version 16. And here's the thing. Bungie is a AAA developer with 500 employees, with one barebones content pack after seven months, with two more months to go until the next one. Digital Extremes is a developer with 150 employees, and they are constantly, CONSTANTLY, adding content to the game. Heck, just look at the most recent version. That's every month. Pretty much every month since launch, they've put out new content in some way or another. And the content has an effect on the world that they've created.

Not only that, but they are great at communicating with players on changes and content that they have planned for the future (through six livestream videos that they do every month). Update 16 was only announced about a month ago, with promises of the raid, a new Warframe, new weapons, a new Prime Warframe (Exotic versions of existing Frames), a PvP overhaul, and other stuff. Announced a month ago, and it's all here now. Heck, they have even teased the next major story arc that also deals with ancient lore. And to top it all off, DE has achieved all of this without ever paywalling a single non-cosmetic thing in the game. Everything has been free from day 1, with convenience fees being pretty much their only player-driven source of revenue, while Bungie has their "500 million" budget and five years working on the game already... And yet look at what DE can do in a single update, or with a single story arc, and they make it impactful and permanent.

Then you go back to Destiny:
Oh look, Inferno playlist. It's like regular crucible, only your Radar is disabled. yay.
New Bounty. Now you need 20 headshots with any weapon instead of just Auto Rifles. yay.
Upcoming UI changes. Now you can turn the game audio down and voices up a bit more. yay.

New Multiplayer maps! But they're not available to you outside of their specific playlist.
331 weapons! That don't matter outside of the raid.
Umm... Exclusive emblem for the Bungie Bounty?
...

DE has less than a third of the employees that Bungie has. What is the deal? Will House of Wolves finally give up substantial content? I mean, it was announced before the game even released...

Something I'd like to see: if the upcoming map pack has three maps, make a fourth, then have a community event, like a Faction struggle for claiming territory that leads to the discovery/claiming of one of the Crucible maps.

Fighting for New Monarchy led to unlocking map A for free for everybody.
Fighting for Dead Orbit led to unlocking map B for free for everybody.
Fighting for Future War Cult led to unlocking map C for free for everybody.

That'd at least feel like a Persistent change, because players will have had a direct impact on the world, as regardless of DLC content, every player would have one more map, maybe one with the corresponding Faction's flags or insignias scattered about, and the rest would be in the map pack.


SOMETHING to affect what the game brings to the table.

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How Clans also affect the "Persistent World".

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 10:35 (3342 days ago) @ Korny
edited by Korny, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 10:52

Each planet/Region in Warframe has two different locations where a Solar Rail can be placed. These are part of the Dark Sectors portion of the game, where clans wage war against one another for control of the region. Placing a Rail allows your clan to tax other players that use your node, which allows you to build your dojo and the research available to your clan. The more Rails you control, the more powerful (and desirable for recruits) your clan becomes. Other clans can challenge your control, leading to an Invasion-like multiplayer match where one clan tries to push into and destroy the other's Relay. Players can choose to fight for either clan, and this can be influenced by the history of either clan (if one clan charged high taxes, players will more likely want to see it gone), as well as payout offers (a set portion is offered from a refillable pool, which can entice players to fight for you (essentially turning them into mercenaries).

These create a constantly fluctuating struggle for power, and it's a shame that nothing like this made it to Destiny.

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Owned.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 12:52 (3342 days ago) @ Korny

Though I played Warframe early on, I didn't find the game enjoyable enough to get into it, but I definitely saw the potential. And DE has certainly felt the same way, as the game is already on version 16. And here's the thing. Bungie is a AAA developer with 500 employees, with one barebones content pack after seven months, with two more months to go until the next one. Digital Extremes is a developer with 150 employees, and they are constantly, CONSTANTLY, adding content to the game. Heck, just look at the most recent version. That's every month. Pretty much every month since launch, they've put out new content in some way or another. And the content has an effect on the world that they've created.

Not only that, but they are great at communicating with players on changes and content that they have planned for the future (through six livestream videos that they do every month). Update 16 was only announced about a month ago, with promises of the raid, a new Warframe, new weapons, a new Prime Warframe (Exotic versions of existing Frames), a PvP overhaul, and other stuff. Announced a month ago, and it's all here now. Heck, they have even teased the next major story arc that also deals with ancient lore. And to top it all off, DE has achieved all of this without ever paywalling a single non-cosmetic thing in the game. Everything has been free from day 1, with convenience fees being pretty much their only player-driven source of revenue, while Bungie has their "500 million" budget and five years working on the game already... And yet look at what DE can do in a single update, or with a single story arc, and they make it impactful and permanent.

Then you go back to Destiny:
Oh look, Inferno playlist. It's like regular crucible, only your Radar is disabled. yay.
New Bounty. Now you need 20 headshots with any weapon instead of just Auto Rifles. yay.
Upcoming UI changes. Now you can turn the game audio down and voices up a bit more. yay.

New Multiplayer maps! But they're not available to you outside of their specific playlist.
331 weapons! That don't matter outside of the raid.
Umm... Exclusive emblem for the Bungie Bounty?
...

DE has less than a third of the employees that Bungie has. What is the deal? Will House of Wolves finally give up substantial content? I mean, it was announced before the game even released...

Something I'd like to see: if the upcoming map pack has three maps, make a fourth, then have a community event, like a Faction struggle for claiming territory that leads to the discovery/claiming of one of the Crucible maps.

Fighting for New Monarchy led to unlocking map A for free for everybody.
Fighting for Dead Orbit led to unlocking map B for free for everybody.
Fighting for Future War Cult led to unlocking map C for free for everybody.

That'd at least feel like a Persistent change, because players will have had a direct impact on the world, as regardless of DLC content, every player would have one more map, maybe one with the corresponding Faction's flags or insignias scattered about, and the rest would be in the map pack.


SOMETHING to affect what the game brings to the table.

Reading this hurts. Don't make us kick your ass indeed.

The events and happenings described in your complete post, such as that rallying cry of "Save Europa", sounds very interesting and very intense. Such a mechanism would have extremely far reaching effects on all of Destiny. Like a black hole eating every casual whole. ...

I'm finding myself agreeing and disagreeing. Right now in Destiny you can play (for better or for worse) anything you want (unless you haven't beaten all parts of DLC ~ *Grumble*) with out any particular pressure. Yeah, there are bounties, but its an Opt in thing. If you miss it - so what? With this sort of mechanism, it becomes "play this or else". I'm not denying that something big has to be done, but I don't think its exactly this. A good direction definitely.

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"Shared World Shooter"

by RC ⌂, UK, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 13:13 (3342 days ago) @ Korny

That's the phrase I kept hearing. Not saying Warframe isn't doing cool stuff that Destiny could borrow but, it feels like your premise is a straw man.

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I will say

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 13:46 (3342 days ago) @ Korny

Because you have gushed about this game, I looked in to it. I haven't played (and won't, perhaps that's worth a post), but the one thing it appears Bungie could learn that would help is that Warframe appears to get more bang for their buck with the areas. The levels are smaller and much less detailed, but you're actually doing stuff on them. Most of the stuff that's modeled in Destiny is just driven past with your sparrow.

If you look at the raids, the areas are much much smaller than the planet areas, but so much is packed into them. Destiny needs to utilize the space better, although it's probably easier for the raids since you don't have to design the spaces around patrol and public events. If anything, a lot of the story missions should take place on 'story only' areas that are not connected to the patrols.

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I will say

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, March 22, 2015, 17:49 (3341 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Because you have gushed about this game, I looked in to it. I haven't played (and won't, perhaps that's worth a post), but the one thing it appears Bungie could learn that would help is that Warframe appears to get more bang for their buck with the areas. The levels are smaller and much less detailed, but you're actually doing stuff on them.

Not entirely true. Once you learn to "fly" with melee combos, you start just rushing past everything that's not an objective. However, every level is procedurally-generated, so navigating is always "fresh". The multiple pathways within every "room" are also pretty fun to master.

If you look at the raids, the areas are much much smaller than the planet areas, but so much is packed into them. Destiny needs to utilize the space better, although it's probably easier for the raids since you don't have to design the spaces around patrol and public events. If anything, a lot of the story missions should take place on 'story only' areas that are not connected to the patrols.

That I agree with entirely.

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I will say

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 18:48 (3341 days ago) @ ZackDark

Because you have gushed about this game, I looked in to it. I haven't played (and won't, perhaps that's worth a post), but the one thing it appears Bungie could learn that would help is that Warframe appears to get more bang for their buck with the areas. The levels are smaller and much less detailed, but you're actually doing stuff on them.


Not entirely true. Once you learn to "fly" with melee combos, you start just rushing past everything that's not an objective. However, every level is procedurally-generated, so navigating is always "fresh". The multiple pathways within every "room" are also pretty fun to master.

Also, Zephyr. If you can get your hands on her (not too hard, she's a clan-research Frame), navigating the game will always be fun. But Nightmare missions (think Nightfall for regular missions) are kind of the counter to that quick navigation. In those you need to be checking every corner, and familiar rooms approached from different angles can prove terrifying. But Nightmare missions are fun because they challenge you and reward you with great mods... I've had some "watercooler moments" like saving a prisoner from execution with 00:00 seconds on the clock while shield-less and surrounded by enemies, and stuff.

If you look at the raids, the areas are much much smaller than the planet areas, but so much is packed into them. Destiny needs to utilize the space better, although it's probably easier for the raids since you don't have to design the spaces around patrol and public events. If anything, a lot of the story missions should take place on 'story only' areas that are not connected to the patrols.


That I agree with entirely.

Running the Will of Crota has an interesting encounter. You are in a public area (Skywatch), but a story-specific enemy gets dropped off. This, and the first Cyclops on Venus are two of the only Public story encounters that I can think of... More of that would be cool, especially if it utilized mostly-empty areas (remember when Bungie told of how we'd end up pinned down with little hope when suddenly a random Fireteam could show up and save us?)...

New player question

by DreadPirateWes, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 14:18 (3342 days ago) @ Korny

Sounds awesome! Looking into purchasing now... how much are new players penalized? Will I ever be able to make it to the top? Or will I forever be behind since I didn't participate in the prior events?

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New player question

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 17:30 (3341 days ago) @ DreadPirateWes

Sounds awesome! Looking into purchasing now... how much are new players penalized? Will I ever be able to make it to the top? Or will I forever be behind since I didn't participate in the prior events?

I started back in December of '13, and Sammy started in August of '14, and we're pretty much on the same level. The only penalty for new players is access to a handful of rare mod sets, but they've been slowly adding them to new minor Events, and you can trade for them, although they tend to be pricey (in-game items and currencies).

As far as "making it to the top", you can go to the chats and find clans that recruit new people pretty easily. Many times the people in clans will be more than happy to help you out. Prior events mostly shape the current state of the world. A Grimoire-like library is being added to the Relays, and the in-game codex can explain almost everything.

Also, I've gone into PvP matches as a very low level character, and I've come out on top. It's balanced in neat ways, though PvP is getting a great overhaul this week/month.

There's a steep learning curve, but once you figure things out, you're set.

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Depends entirely on your playstyle

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, March 22, 2015, 17:56 (3341 days ago) @ DreadPirateWes

I, for one, fell completely in love with one of the starter Warframes (Mag, sort of like Mass Effect's Adepts), so I had very little work to do to get the "perfect" loadout for me. Hell, within a week or two I already everything I needed to be useful on Survival IV (a sort of Horde-mode, 4th tier of difficulty).

Every 'frame is like a different class. They have their own stats and supers. Weapons, however, are completely interchangeable. On top of the equipment and 'frames themselves are the augments (Mods), which enhance and might even significantly alter how you play out your loadout. To use the Mods, you have to go through an investment system, where you need to level up your equipment (by simply playing with it, like Destiny) to attach more or upgrade existing Mods.

So yeah, unless you go on a shopping/building spree, you should have no trouble keeping your 'frame as good as you want.

Mag 4 Lyfe

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, March 29, 2015, 03:04 (3335 days ago) @ ZackDark

- No text -

New player question

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, March 29, 2015, 03:08 (3335 days ago) @ DreadPirateWes
edited by someotherguy, Sunday, March 29, 2015, 03:12

I started playing about 3 weeks ago thanks to Korny's gushing, and I've been having a blast. Im definitely not playing top-tier content yet (T4 Survival is a terrifying prospect right now) but I feel it's well within my reach - all I need is to gather some more resources and get a bit lucky with the RNG. The existence of a trade system helps a lot too, as you can get those items the RNG refuses to drop for you.

Edit: worth mentioning that the only things I've paid for have been convenience items. I havent bought any weapons or characters with real money and I don't feel penalised for it at all. I have bought some Platinum (the premium currency) to support the devs, but I've not felt the need to spend much of it yet.

Yep.

by Velociraptor112, Places., Sunday, March 22, 2015, 15:06 (3341 days ago) @ Korny

This is something I've noticed and disliked about Destiny for a long time. Throughout the story, you kill tons of high-ranking Fallen, Hive, etc, and nothing changes. Kill the big boss Vex? No problem. Vex are still everywhere. (Although there is the whole time-traveling thing with Atheon, so that could explain some things.) Kill Crota? Hive are actually even more numerous! I'm hoping that in the next few years or with Destiny 2, a lot of this stuff with be ironed out.

As for Warframe, I started playing it about 3 weeks ago, and I'm really enjoying it. My Archwing is currently being crafted and I can't wait to use it. Looks super fun. SPACE STUFF!

Also, Destiny could learn something from Warframe's customization options. In Warframe, you can customize everything. You can color your armor, guns, swords, even your ship can be whatever colors you want it to be. I love it.

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Caveat on customization

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, March 22, 2015, 17:59 (3341 days ago) @ Velociraptor112

There's a very limited number of colors you can use to customize at first. You need to buy new palettes with premium currency (which you can acquire by paying real money or selling stuff to other players).

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Caveat on customization

by Korny @, Dalton, Ga. US. Earth, Sol System, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 18:13 (3341 days ago) @ ZackDark

There's a very limited number of colors you can use to customize at first. You need to buy new palettes with premium currency (which you can acquire by paying real money or selling stuff to other players).

Keep an eye out during Holidays. This past week, they had a St. Paddy's day color set for 1 credit. Easter's coming up, so I imagine they might have another. Also, their anniversary is this next week. Players will be getting a handful of free stuff just for playing, and a color pack might be on the list.

(Also, depending on your console, they do have exclusive color sets available for 1 credit).

On top of that, they're switching a lot of models over to the PBR system, which will allow for further customization.

Evolution!

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Noooooooo

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Sunday, March 22, 2015, 18:23 (3341 days ago) @ Korny

Completely forgot to check the game during it... According the wiki, it's one hell of a pack...

Noooooooo

by Velociraptor112, Places., Monday, March 23, 2015, 16:20 (3340 days ago) @ ZackDark

Yeah, it's pretty good. It only has four colors, but it has like 15 variants of each. And it has blue, so I'm happy.

Noooooooo

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Sunday, March 29, 2015, 03:16 (3335 days ago) @ Velociraptor112

It's a nice pack, but it's completely ruined the "random colors" button for me. All I ever get now is green guns with green or yellow trim. Not a real problem, but I used to like rolling "random" just to see if I'd get anything cool.

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Just how much did the last gens hold Destiny back?

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 15:27 (3341 days ago) @ Korny
edited by iconicbanana, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 15:30

Not to diminish your points, because the more you talk about Warframe the more I want to get an Xthrone; but it seems more and more to me that the last gens could be to blame for just about every major implementation issue that's occurred in the Destiny Launch, and I'm curious just how much the 360/PS3 upkeep is interfering with the development of the game. (Warframe is next-gen exclusive, and I wonder if some of their feature implementation is easier as a result).

Just how much did the last gens hold Destiny back?

by Velociraptor112, Places., Sunday, March 22, 2015, 15:37 (3341 days ago) @ iconicbanana

This is almost definitely a part of the problem. With Destiny 2, Bungie should either drop next gen so they can use the current gen to its full potential, or do what they're doing with Rise of the Tomb Raider, have one studio work on current-gen, one work on last-gen. I feel like those are the only two ways to get past the limitations of the last-gen.

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Just how much did the last gens hold Destiny back?

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 15:54 (3341 days ago) @ Velociraptor112

This is almost definitely a part of the problem. With Destiny 2, Bungie should either drop next gen so they can use the current gen to its full potential, or do what they're doing with Rise of the Tomb Raider, have one studio work on current-gen, one work on last-gen. I feel like those are the only two ways to get past the limitations of the last-gen.

Console wise, Destiny 2 will definitely only be on the "next gen" Xbox One and Ps4. You can be 99.9% sure on that. Not even a speculation.

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Custom engine

by Blackt1g3r @, Login is from an untrusted domain in MN, Monday, March 23, 2015, 00:56 (3341 days ago) @ iconicbanana

I think it has more to do with the custom engine Bungie created. By making their own engine, Bungie is able to maintain the "Halo" feel of the combat, but they are spending a lot of effort to build the tools to make things. I think this is a big part of why there is no forge or custom games for example. Bungie just hasn't had time to implement some of the features that I'm sure they would like because they barely got the engine done in time to ship. They have also never built a game quit like Destiny where everything is online all the time and that probably affects how a lot of functionality is coded.

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The business model drives it

by Durandal, Sunday, March 22, 2015, 15:30 (3341 days ago) @ Korny

Warframe is free to play. They make money off micro-transactions, so rare parts and constant updates are pretty much part and parcel of what you would expect from someone pursuing that business model. I agree with your point that they are much more focused on putting out content then Bungie seems to be, but I don't think that is unique to them. World Of Tanks usually has a new map and tanks every few months, and is always tweaking game types and stats. You have to constantly drive players to buy new things, or take shortcuts, and that requires a pretty massive content stream. Bungie doesn't have that pressure, they have a more traditional model, and we see updates at a far slower rate commiserate with other FPS titles like COD and Battlefield.

That does not mean they are incapable, just that they have a different focus. Could they drop everything and give us space combat, more interesting Co-op missions and such? Probably. However I suspect they have other priorities.

The delay in the House of Wolves expansion did not happen lightly. In the AAA world you have significant, quantifiable losses associated with a lack of new content. Activision is very aware of how many players hit that wall and quit, or significantly reduce their play time to try other games. Bungie should not have delayed the second expansion just to give us a retread of TDB, a strike or two, a few weapons and gear and some redone levels. I suspect they are feverishly reworking it based on the ample feedback they have received, and I can only hope they have learned the right lessons.

The business model drives it

by Pfhor, Monday, March 23, 2015, 14:40 (3340 days ago) @ Durandal

People keep saying House of Wolves has been delayed when in reality they haven't even properly revealed the expansion yet! For all we know, HoW's was always planned to be released Q2 and it'll follow the same format as Dark Below like previous leak had shown (4 story missions from previous locations, 1 strike, 1 raid, and a few new MP maps) with a new public space in the Reef. I'll predict nothing revolutionary will come forth in this expansion and we can all hope for drastic changes to start happening in the Comet later this year, if it'll even ever happen.

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You want a persistent world? I'll show you one.

by Kahzgul, Monday, March 23, 2015, 06:53 (3341 days ago) @ Korny

Kingdom of Loathing.

Here's a brief history of the annual Christmas time events.

Here's other major stuff:
- Players found an exploit to get bajillions of in-game currency. Rather than reverting the game world back to before the exploit was found (which the devs could have done), they opted to roll with it, and introduced some serious currency sinks into the game. One was destroying a builiding in the main town and letting people donate money to fix the building, another was the ability to put hits out on players for large sums of money, and the last was introducing some "prestige" items that could only be bought for amounts of money so large that they were obviously bug-money.

- The servers went down one day, and when they came back up, the devs had added some "spiders in the machine" as enemies to symbolize the actual spiders that had crawled into their server for warmth and shorted it out the day previous.

- Loads and loads of scripted, one-time events that dropped unique items you can sell or use (sometimes both).

I'll grant that this is a web-based, stick figure drawing RPG that is mostly text, and is thus not subject to needing all of the super high-def artwork, animations, and voice acting that a AAA title would need, but it's the approach to having a living, breathing world that evolves along with the players that I wish "Persistent world" AAA devs would follow.

Also, Asymmetric (the devs of KoL) are staffed by... 3 people? Maybe 4 at their peak. So with 500 people, imagine the level content they could move.

Seconded! KoL is awesome.

by Ouranje ⌂, Dallas, TX, Sunday, March 29, 2015, 04:17 (3335 days ago) @ Kahzgul

- No text -

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I'd love to check out Warframe but...

by Kahzgul, Saturday, March 28, 2015, 04:47 (3336 days ago) @ Korny

...There's a bug on Xbox One that prevents you from doing anything once you reach the spaceship after the very first intro mission. So lame!

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You sure you aren't stuck in the tutorial?

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Saturday, March 28, 2015, 12:04 (3336 days ago) @ Kahzgul

- No text -

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100%

by Kahzgul, Friday, April 03, 2015, 15:58 (3329 days ago) @ ZackDark

I had to submit a support ticket and someone from DE manually added the navigation computer component to my account so I could move on to tutorial quest step #2.

--

since then I've been playing on PS4 with my old Destiny crew instead. Much fun!

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