Is it really that ambigious? (Destiny)

by Kermit , Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, September 11, 2018, 13:21 (2057 days ago) @ Korny

I disagree that it cheapens the question, but I think the "we're evil zombies" idea can and probably will crop up later, and I'd rather have the clarifying moment (player choice or not) towards the end of the series.

I have a theory that it will be the Traveler who is shown to be less-than benevolent. Not evil, but selfish, and the Ghosts and Guardians will force its hand in favor of Humanity/Eliksni, even if it takes a few Warsats trained on him to keep him form escaping the Darkness once more.

Plausible.

Plenty of other games have nailed the question and answer to this scenario.

Again, I like how it was handled at this point in the series.

It's weird that they ask this question in such a rushed way, though. Sure, the Mad Bomber posits the question as we're crossing off the list, and Ghost reassures us about it, but very little about it has any impact on our motivations throughout (more so since some of the Barons are brought back to life after the game anyway).

I would totally kill for a moment like the end of Metal Gear Solid 3, though, were we come to the realization that nothing was as it seemed, and it hits you that you're just one pawn in a bigger game, down to having no choice but to pull the trigger to continue the game.

I mean. He was still a spiteful antagonist long before the Beholder got his phone number, and he clearly showed no remorse after he was "cured". Not a redeemable character. Maybe with better writing in-game.

Yeah, sure, the hatred of guardians is strong in this one. Should we become like those who hate us?

I love the way Warframe handled this question throughout the entirety of the "War Within" quest. Your character, a Tenno, was feared and hated, and brought about Warframe's version of The Collapse. You are directly responsible for the extinction of an entire civilization... But you did it for love. The same motivation as the game's main antagonist. You were no better; worse, in fact, because while he betrayed his own people, you slaughtered them... but you don't remember any of it.

So at six or seven different points during the quest, you are given an opportunity to remember something, or remember how you felt about it. Depending on your choices, your character develops a Day/Night/Balanced morality.
Were they right about you? Or were you not what they made you seem? Or are you a completely different person than the one you were before?
All of these choices are presented to you, so you can decide who your character is.

Thanks for the examples.

Personally. I would have had my character nod at Petra, and walk off. She earned her revenge (since she actually cared about Cayde and her people), and I completed my mission of hunting down Cayde's killers (no more, no less).

That's what I imagine for my character, too.

In this instance, Uldren ends up dead no matter what you choose, so it really should have been made into a player-driven moment.

Yeah, but Destiny doesn't have a Paragon/Renegade meter, and I think there are larger narrative issues at play regarding the nature of guardians, so it's a bigger question than which means do I use to pursue good ends.

Speaking of western conventions, one of my favorite moments in the campaign was when the barons show up in silhouette along the ridge. Classic.

Sadly, Neither Sammy nor I caught that. Wasn't until I ran my second character that I noticed it. Very nice, easily-missable moment.

Yeah. I like Gears instead of loving it, but one of its innovations was giving us a hud indicator at certain moments and a quick way to automatically direct the camera to something worth seeing in game. It's a nice solution.

During one of the Dead Space ViDocs, the devs talked about how, if you don't take control from the player's hands, they can miss around 20-40% of scripted moments. One of the keys to preventing this is framing:
Want them to be looking in a certain direction? Have them moving towards it, or guide their eyes or ears towards the direction before you hit them with the moment.

Because the Baron appearance happens in a wide open area, while you've got enemies on every side, and you can approach the ridge from any direction, it's very poorly framed.

Bungie could have had a heavily-damaged Fallen skiff taking off away from the Scorn, only to get shot down and fall behind the ridge as the Fanatic came into view, followed by the Barons. That way you're showing how the Fallen and Scorn don't get along, you're directing the player's focus, and you are guiding them towards their next destination, and you're eating your cake by having a western shot.

That would've worked well.