High damage itself isn't the problem (Destiny)

by RC , UK, Saturday, February 07, 2015, 17:45 (3374 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY
edited by RC, Saturday, February 07, 2015, 17:54

It's not true that high damage is a problem in itself. Unavoiable high damage is a problem.

Range+cover obviously allows you to avoid the damage. Always, every time. It's basically a rule of FPS. But getting in close in Destiny often has some or all of these problems:

• Your target's attacks are unavoidable (Ultras' aforementioned AOE)
  
• Your target has friends who's attacks cannot be avoided / your target can't be isolated
  
• They're too mobile/hard to shotgun - like Hive Wizards
  
• (minor) You don't have right type of/any shotguns because you have too many Special weapons already.

In the remaining situations where a shotgun would be viable and effective, longer-range weaponry is also effective, but safer and easier to execute. A Fallen Captain for example: you can get in close to an individual, avoid their shots AND melee attacks, but they often don't take cover, so sniping wins.

Contrast to Halo LASO:

• Getting in closer was necessary since there were no anti-shield long-range weapons
  
• Elites took cover when their shields were down
  
• Melee had other benefits like ammo conservation, insta-kill back-smacks and shield-regen
  
• Hunters' weak point was in their back

Despite some reports to the contrary, the AI in Destiny IS NOT dumb: I remember in one mission, standing on some pillars, and watching the Hive Thralls scatter out of view. They understand line of sight! That's SMART! I had to come down and engage them on their level.

The problem is that the AI's capabilities aren't used often enough, effectively enough, to make a more diverse range of strategies more appealing and/or optimal.

There are class-specific options that help with close-quarters but it's like you have to build the entire class around it, whereas a sniper is effective in the same way, out of the box, for every class.

Here's a few ideas I came up with today:

Close-Encounter Environment Design - there are a few too many wide open plains. We need more close-combat areas with cover you can go between. That allows you to get in around, amongst and up in the faces of enemies.

Enemies that take cover - Take captains - why not make them a little more hidey?

More bait-able Enemies - If I could get a Hive Knight to follow me, to separate them from enemies, at a close distance, that'd make shotgunning more viable. The health-regen-shield is practically begging for all-damage-done-at-once kills, but it's hard to go in close because they have back-up.
What if they got health back in a lump at the end of their shield, rather than in pieces: so if you could get around their shields you could kill them before they actually got any health back from the shield?

Weak-points on sides and backs - So you do a wicked side-step of that Cabal Phalanx, you're behind them, and now their head is away from you - ugh, reduced damage! A weaker area on their back would help.
Or a tough Vex enemy with their 'juice-box' on their back would be good too.
Perhaps a boss who only exposes their weak-point after a melee attack? (Boss design is a whole other thing but yeah...)

More interesting shotguns/perks - Compared to Game Breaker and Infinite Hammer, everything shotgun-wise totally sucks. How about shogtuns with:
Punch Action - When equipped, melee kills have a chance to generate ammo to your reserve/directly to the magazine.
Stick/Fist Combo - Damage from this weapon temporarily increases the target's susceptibility to melee attacks (an obvious synergy, surely?)
Bunny-Shotter - This weapon reloads faster while you are airborne (imagine taking out a few Thrall, then jumping over them and reloading. I think it'd be funny :)
Backshot Shells - Does extra damage when firing into the back of an opponent

It's also ridiculous that I can switch to Ice Breaker, let it charge up, switch to Invective, and have more ammo than if I'd been wandering around with Invective!

Different aspect pairings/shotgun types - Right now, High Impact always seems paired with High Range (e.g. Found Verdict). Maybe that's wrong and a source of the PvP problems? Perhaps instead: more range should mean less impact. What about a shotgun that can take on a group of Thrall (larger mag, lower impact, greater range) and one for majors/shielded enemies (high impact, low range, low ROF, good staggering ability).

So, there should be a need to get close, a way to avoid getting blasted to pieces, and it actually needs to take down the target - otherwise snipers will probably remain king.

That said, double damage shotguns might still be worth screwing around with ;)

EDIT: This post evolved a lot as I was writing it. The Halo LASO comparison initially had more of a point. It's an example where the high risk of close-combat is actually effectively offset by a high reward, where skill mitigates the risk, and the rest of the sandbox isn't completely dominant. More could be said about that comparison but it's late now.