Suggestion for running the _________ *Raid SP*

after running the gauntlet for a couple of hrs last night, only to wipe on the last phase, i had an idea.

So, the first two phases, where you shoot the green arrows, we were assigned into 3 groups of 2:

Dog/Sun
Chalice/Axes
Runners

then we were further divided into Top/bottom. one person always shot the uppermost arrow, and the other always shot the lowermost arrow.

On the 3rd wave, everyone has to run, but there are only 4 orbs in the hoops. Our intended method was to now have two groups (1 group of 2, and 1 group of 4:

previous runners
new runners (everyone else)

with this setup, new runners got the first 4 orbs, and then ignore the 2nd set, leaving them for the previous runners, and keep alternating each time

where we were running into problems was people not calling out their orbs, or miscalling, missing an orb and then trying to make up for it on the next one, etc

I think it would be better on this part to assign two groups of 3. Assign each person 1 of the 3 columns, and then keep alternating between the 2 groups. You always have dibs on an orb in your column. If there is more than 1 orb, you have dibs on the uppermost orb. If you have no orbs in your column, you have dibs to the 2nd orb in the column to your right (farthest right loops to the left)

EXAMPLE 1:

I took a screenshot off a youtube run

[image]

If you were assigned left column, you don't have an orb, so you look to the right (middle column) and see that there are 2 orbs. You know that the guy assigned middle has dibs on the top, so you take the middle one. Middle and Right Guardians have orbs, so there is nothing to worry about. That leaves a spare orb that a straggler, or someone that might have missed for some reason to grab.

EXAMPLE 2:

[image]

In this example, left and right have their orbs. Middle has no orbs, so he looks to the right and take the lower one (b/c Right Guardian has dibs on the upper by default).

EXAMPLE 3:

[image]

This one has an orb in every column. Left and right's orbs are at the bottom. Mid takes the top. Bottom mid is a freebie if someone needs it.

EXAMPLE 4:

[image]

Finally, I had said that if you didn't have any orbs in your column, to move to the right. Well, the guy on the far right needs to either loop over to the left, or take the freebie (4th) orb in Mid. Just need to make sure there is good communication in this instance.

I think having defined boundaries will help ease with the confusion and help people know which orbs are up for grabs. You just keep an eye on your column, and your backup column. very rarely will you need to move over 2 columns.

locked

1714 views

Our group split into three teams of two.

One group was the two that had been running the entire time. The next pair were the next strongest runners, and the last pair are the weakest runners.

Group 1 leaves as soon as possible. They skip getting orbs on the first gate. Group 2 waits 2-3 seconds to give Group 1 a decent start. Group 2 takes a set of orbs (you can figure out which you want, there are still 4 orbs to get, and only two people trying to get them). Group 3 goes 2-3 seconds after that, and get whichever two orbs are left.

Groups 1 and 2 switch getting orbs. Group 1 skips the first gate, while Group 2 gets orbs, then it alternates until the finish. Group 3 always gets the two orbs that are left--the idea being that they're the weakest runners and just need to stay alive.

It's worked incredibly well for us for a few reasons. The main one is the weak runners staying alive. Our biggest problem initially was that someone would die too early in the gauntlet, and no one would have enough time to finish it and get out for a revive. So those two not having to worry about anything but grabbing their orbs and getting to the end really helps.

The other good thing is the staggered starts. It avoids all six people scrambling to figure out which orbs they're going to get at every gate. Instead you have two skipping completely, two getting orbs, and the last two getting the orbs that are left, and all at different times.

When the Prestige mode comes out, we may have to mix something up. I suspect that everyone will have to make it to the end and the timing may be tighter or something, but I still think this method will work for it.

locked

1665 views

In theory, at least. I haven't tried it myself yet. But it seems like a good approach to me.

locked

1498 views

- No text -

locked

1493 views

Our group split into three teams of two.

One group was the two that had been running the entire time. The next pair were the next strongest runners, and the last pair are the weakest runners.

Group 1 leaves as soon as possible. They skip getting orbs on the first gate. Group 2 waits 2-3 seconds to give Group 1 a decent start. Group 2 takes a set of orbs (you can figure out which you want, there are still 4 orbs to get, and only two people trying to get them). Group 3 goes 2-3 seconds after that, and get whichever two orbs are left.

Groups 1 and 2 switch getting orbs. Group 1 skips the first gate, while Group 2 gets orbs, then it alternates until the finish. Group 3 always gets the two orbs that are left--the idea being that they're the weakest runners and just need to stay alive.

It's worked incredibly well for us for a few reasons. The main one is the weak runners staying alive. Our biggest problem initially was that someone would die too early in the gauntlet, and no one would have enough time to finish it and get out for a revive. So those two not having to worry about anything but grabbing their orbs and getting to the end really helps.

The other good thing is the staggered starts. It avoids all six people scrambling to figure out which orbs they're going to get at every gate. Instead you have two skipping completely, two getting orbs, and the last two getting the orbs that are left, and all at different times.

When the Prestige mode comes out, we may have to mix something up. I suspect that everyone will have to make it to the end and the timing may be tighter or something, but I still think this method will work for it.

We basically did the exact same thing when we did it but we didn't stagger that much, a second maybe. And instead of doing the weakest runners, we just chose the two Titans because they usually have the worst mobility. Y'all can argue whether weakest runner == Titans :D

locked

1531 views

I’m a titan and to be honest I didn’t think running was all that difficult. I ran through all 4 rounds. I did make an effort to maximize my mobility and my jump controls. As long as you didn’t mess up your jump through the holes (pass through them with as little possible hitting the edge of the holes and try not to overshoot and fall in the pits,) I felt it was more important that the outside people were good shots—that they could deal with adds quickly, shoot the call outs accurately and on time, deal with the counselors and get back on the pedestal in time for me to do the next call out. Once I had the hang of the hole jumping and when to call out I didn’t have very many problems with the running other then the occasional random problem. I did have headset difficulties and it was easier for my party to hear me calling out then for me to hear some in my party. That being said, we seemed to do a lot better when we did that last round in three groups but didn’t notice a difference in how far apart we ran. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was some sort of timer after the first person passes through but we never had that particular problem.

locked

1522 views

hadn't thought about staggering the start times

locked

1514 views

This is basically what we do. It's great.

locked

1527 views

In the groups I've run with, we're already split into a "beast" team of 3 and a "cups" team of three (this strategy), so we just stay in those groups and get alternate walls of orbs. Cups team gets orbs at the first and third wall, and Beast team gets orbs at the second and fourth wall. With only 3 people calling out to get 4 orbs, we haven't had any issues with the orbs/energy (but don't ask about missed jumps :)

locked

1509 views

Last time we ran it we used a method that worked pretty well: the two runners become the front runners and always grab orbs. Since they are a little bit ahead the last four can divide the remaining two orbs between them alternating in two groups of two. This makes it so two people are all but guaranteed to make it through and then only one of the remaining four have to make it all the way to complete the encounter. It does make it likely that people will die, but we've never had them die early enough to cause a wipe.

locked

1514 views

Last time we ran it we used a method that worked pretty well: the two runners become the front runners and always grab orbs. Since they are a little bit ahead the last four can divide the remaining two orbs between them alternating in two groups of two. This makes it so two people are all but guaranteed to make it through and then only one of the remaining four have to make it all the way to complete the encounter. It does make it likely that people will die, but we've never had them die early enough to cause a wipe.

That works, but my only concern is preparing for Prestige mode. Maybe it's just a matter of crossing that bridge when we get to it, but I like to try and prepare as much as possible, and I feel like Prestige will require everyone to make it, so focusing on no deaths seems smart to me.

locked

1516 views

I don't like this setup. The two runners are most likely to get through and will do so the most quickly. That means they are least likely to need every set of orbs. You've got to have your non-runners alive through at least 3 gates in order to have enough time for the race to finish, so you want to maximize orb availability for the slowbies.

locked

1510 views

I don't like this setup. The two runners are most likely to get through and will do so the most quickly. That means they are least likely to need every set of orbs. You've got to have your non-runners alive through at least 3 gates in order to have enough time for the race to finish, so you want to maximize orb availability for the slowbies.

Yeah. Pick your worst runners and have them get an orb at every gate. The runners in the first three phases actually might be better going last, because the course drops away as the first people run over it.

locked

1504 views

I don't like this setup. The two runners are most likely to get through and will do so the most quickly. That means they are least likely to need every set of orbs. You've got to have your non-runners alive through at least 3 gates in order to have enough time for the race to finish, so you want to maximize orb availability for the slowbies.

Yeah it's definitely fine for the normal raid because you just need 3 people to make it and giving an orb to your worst runners every time means your making it more likely something can screw up for the good runners. Betting on the good runners for sure making it and that at least one of the other 4 will make it works out well for our group. If prestige requires you to get more people (or everyone) we'll most likely be switching to the slow runners getting them, but for the normal raid it works great.

locked

1500 views

- No text -

locked

1476 views

I don't like this setup. The two runners are most likely to get through and will do so the most quickly. That means they are least likely to need every set of orbs. You've got to have your non-runners alive through at least 3 gates in order to have enough time for the race to finish, so you want to maximize orb availability for the slowbies.

Yeah it's definitely fine for the normal raid because you just need 3 people to make it and giving an orb to your worst runners every time means your making it more likely something can screw up for the good runners. Betting on the good runners for sure making it and that at least one of the other 4 will make it works out well for our group. If prestige requires you to get more people (or everyone) we'll most likely be switching to the slow runners getting them, but for the normal raid it works great.

Xenos was more than happy to sacrifice a couple Titans if it meant finishing the race. Those Hunters... I tell you.

locked

1579 views

- No text -

locked

1502 views

I don't like this setup. The two runners are most likely to get through and will do so the most quickly. That means they are least likely to need every set of orbs. You've got to have your non-runners alive through at least 3 gates in order to have enough time for the race to finish, so you want to maximize orb availability for the slowbies.

Yeah it's definitely fine for the normal raid because you just need 3 people to make it and giving an orb to your worst runners every time means your making it more likely something can screw up for the good runners. Betting on the good runners for sure making it and that at least one of the other 4 will make it works out well for our group. If prestige requires you to get more people (or everyone) we'll most likely be switching to the slow runners getting them, but for the normal raid it works great.

Your group's worst runners aren't as bad as my group's, it would seem. Week 2 we wiped on the gauntlet three times in a row because one of our three titans died before getting to the second gate and there wasn't enough time for anyone else to even finish the gauntlet, let alone three anyones else. Ensuring they always had orbs available as they ran meant they were likely to live longer and the three successful runner would be able to finish before the 30 second light draining timer expired.

Anyway, because our titans are terrible at jumping (seriously, one of them routinely asks if he can just go to orbit and rejoin us rather than doing a minimal jumping puzzle), we needed a solution that kept them alive long enough for the rest of us to complete the gauntlet before the "someone died" timer expires. And my posted strategy was our solution. Each orb only resets your individual timer to 50 seconds, so if it takes someone 26 seconds to get through each quarter of the gauntlet, they absolutely must get an orb every time or else they're guaranteed to die. And yes, this is ridiculous, I 100% agree. But the people who can make it through a leg in less than 25 seconds can afford to skip an orb and get the next one. The people who can't make it that "quickly" absolutely need to get orbs every time (and have to rely on the faster runners leaving those orbs for them).

I hope that explains why we do what we do and why I advocate for this strategy.

locked

1517 views

So, the first two phases, where you shoot the green arrows, we were assigned into 3 groups of 2:

Dog/Sun
Chalice/Axes
Runners

I dislike this setup. It means people are tied to their own two pillars and can't easily swap out. "Oh crap sorry guys I turned left when I was supposed to turn right" or "Oh man, I always shoot the top arrow on Dog/Sun side so I just shot top on Chalice/Axes, too. Won't happen again" are things you'll hear if you ever have to move people around.

What we do is more... modular. You always help the person on your left. When helping, you shoot the bottom arrow. When shooting your own set of arrows, you shoot the top arrow. This method makes all four positions function identically, and if one of your raiders is replaced for some reason, anyone who knows this method can jump right in regardless of which position they're filling. One last note: There's a strategy on the internet that has helpers shooting to the right. This is an inferior method. When you help the left hand guy, you can then watch the runner as he approaches your position and be 100% prepared. You'll never be surprised by him showing up. You'll also have a sense of how fast or slow he's going, and can call out if your runner needs to slow down or the other runner does.

locked

1564 views

What we do is more... modular. You always help the person on your left. When helping, you shoot the bottom arrow. When shooting your own set of arrows, you shoot the top arrow. This method makes all four positions function identically, and if one of your raiders is replaced for some reason, anyone who knows this method can jump right in regardless of which position they're filling.

This is exactly the method I came up with during our "blind" run. However, we tried many times to do it, and never succeeded getting around even once. It seemed to be working okay for me and the guy to my left, but not for the other 2 guys inside, and I had no way of really figuring out whether it was an overall timing mechanics issue, or if it was a - uh - implementation issue.

We ended up switching to Chappy's method, where you split into 2 groups and the inside people lead/tail the same runner around the circle. We quickly had a lot more success with that method - one thing it really does have going for it is that you can focus on one voice for the callouts (in my case, Zero's dulcet tones).

locked

1499 views

What we do is more... modular. You always help the person on your left. When helping, you shoot the bottom arrow. When shooting your own set of arrows, you shoot the top arrow. This method makes all four positions function identically, and if one of your raiders is replaced for some reason, anyone who knows this method can jump right in regardless of which position they're filling.

This is exactly the method I came up with during our "blind" run. However, we tried many times to do it, and never succeeded getting around even once. It seemed to be working okay for me and the guy to my left, but not for the other 2 guys inside, and I had no way of really figuring out whether it was an overall timing mechanics issue, or if it was a - uh - implementation issue.

We ended up switching to Chappy's method, where you split into 2 groups and the inside people lead/tail the same runner around the circle. We quickly had a lot more success with that method - one thing it really does have going for it is that you can focus on one voice for the callouts (in my case, Zero's dulcet tones).

Wait... Do you guys follow the runner around the ring? Or is the runner not doing the callouts? How does that even work?

locked

1482 views

Wait... Do you guys follow the runner around the ring? Or is the runner not doing the callouts? How does that even work?

Two teams of 3, each with a runner/platform/melee. Platform guy gets on the plate, runner makes callout, platform guy shoots top-most arrow, melee guy shoots bottom-most arrow, once the runner goes through, the platform guy gets off and runs to the next platform, the melee guy punches his psion and runs to the next area, usually just in time to get the shot on the arrows. Since you are rotating and always with the same runner so you can totally ignore what is going on with the other team.

locked

1497 views

Wait... Do you guys follow the runner around the ring? Or is the runner not doing the callouts? How does that even work?

Two teams of 3, each with a runner/platform/melee. Platform guy gets on the plate, runner makes callout, platform guy shoots top-most arrow, melee guy shoots bottom-most arrow, once the runner goes through, the platform guy gets off and runs to the next platform, the melee guy punches his psion and runs to the next area, usually just in time to get the shot on the arrows. Since you are rotating and always with the same runner so you can totally ignore what is going on with the other team.

This seems unnecessarily complicated. Why run around when you can just sit in one spot and turn left and then right to shoot the arrows?

The only problem we had with sitting one guy on each platform, is that it was harder to clear adds for the two guys that didn't have the runners start on their platform.

locked

1490 views

This seems unnecessarily complicated. Why run around when you can just sit in one spot and turn left and then right to shoot the arrows?

I don't know, give it a try - the main difference is that you only have to listen to your runner, and the platform leaders have less responsibility. Like I said, we tried the "normal" method quite a while before switching to rotation, and immediately had a lot more success. I wouldn't mind giving the normal method a go one of these times.

locked

1481 views

This seems unnecessarily complicated. Why run around when you can just sit in one spot and turn left and then right to shoot the arrows?

I don't know, give it a try - the main difference is that you only have to listen to your runner, and the platform leaders have less responsibility. Like I said, we tried the "normal" method quite a while before switching to rotation, and immediately had a lot more success. I wouldn't mind giving the normal method a go one of these times.

We only had the runners calling out top/middle/bottom. And my only responsibility was to shoot an arrow and clear adds. I mean, also the councilor, but I just did that everytime a runner passed by my spot, which was fine because I had nothing better to do until the other runner came by.

locked

1499 views

We only had the runners calling out top/middle/bottom. And my only responsibility was to shoot an arrow and clear adds. I mean, also the councilor, but I just did that everytime a runner passed by my spot, which was fine because I had nothing better to do until the other runner came by.

That only works if your runners have easily recognizable voices (or I guess you are using the screenname display thing). The meleeing the councilor is the entire crux of the encounter - with static platforms, you have to shoot your arrow, jump off the platform, melee the psion, then be back in place to shoot the arrow of the person to your left (which is happening immediately). Some people in our group were having trouble with that sequence. With the rotating method, you just do exactly the same thing 4 times in a row in a circle - if anything, it's more boring!

locked

1476 views

We only had the runners calling out top/middle/bottom. And my only responsibility was to shoot an arrow and clear adds. I mean, also the councilor, but I just did that everytime a runner passed by my spot, which was fine because I had nothing better to do until the other runner came by.

That only works if your runners have easily recognizable voices (or I guess you are using the screenname display thing). The meleeing the councilor is the entire crux of the encounter - with static platforms, you have to shoot your arrow, jump off the platform, melee the psion, then be back in place to shoot the arrow of the person to your left (which is happening immediately). Some people in our group were having trouble with that sequence. With the rotating method, you just do exactly the same thing 4 times in a row in a circle - if anything, it's more boring!

Okay, I guess the voice thing would be annoying, and we did have two distinguishable voices. I also used their names. But I never had a problem with hitting the scion because I had a full 1/4 runner length (plus the distance the runner is from jumping through when the arrow was shot) to hit the scion and jump back on the platform. This was plenty of time for me. I would be more worried about having to try and hit two arrows in time for the runner.

But all of this to say. Apparently there are different people in the world with different strengths and weaknesses. Maybe that's why there are different strategies? :D

locked

1526 views

I routinely punched my psion the shot my arrow from the ground before jumping back on my platform. Timing there never seemed to be an issue. That said, I love that a 2nd clever working strategy was thought up! :)

locked

1495 views

I routinely punched my psion the shot my arrow from the ground before jumping back on my platform. Timing there never seemed to be an issue. That said, I love that a 2nd clever working strategy was thought up! :)

You can apparently shoot someone else's arrows without being on your platform. Being on the platform activates only the corresponding arrows; only that person has to be on while shooting.

So just punch your psion, chill, shoot the arrows to your right, then take your time getting back on your platform.

locked

1489 views

- No text -

locked

1488 views

I routinely punched my psion the shot my arrow from the ground before jumping back on my platform. Timing there never seemed to be an issue. That said, I love that a 2nd clever working strategy was thought up! :)

You can apparently shoot someone else's arrows without being on your platform. Being on the platform activates only the corresponding arrows; only that person has to be on while shooting.

So just punch your psion, chill, shoot the arrows to your right, then take your time getting back on your platform.

Little fact I found, there are shields over the arrows and getting on the platform drops them :)

I thought it just "activated" them at first but nope!

locked

1503 views

We only had the runners calling out top/middle/bottom. And my only responsibility was to shoot an arrow and clear adds. I mean, also the councilor, but I just did that everytime a runner passed by my spot, which was fine because I had nothing better to do until the other runner came by.

That only works if your runners have easily recognizable voices

Actually they could have identical voices and you'd be fine. Every gate has a symbol above it, so the callout is "Cup, middle row" or "Axes, top row" etc.. And everyone knows where to shoot.

locked

1457 views

Why switch whether you shoot top or bottom? I always shoot bottom, whether on my symbol or the one to my right. The person to my right always shoots top, the person to their right shoots bottom, etc. Not a significant difference, but it’s just one less small thing to keep track of.

locked

1511 views

Why switch whether you shoot top or bottom? I always shoot bottom, whether on my symbol or the one to my right. The person to my right always shoots top, the person to their right shoots bottom, etc. Not a significant difference, but it’s just one less small thing to keep track of.

Simply because once you get used to it you can then be on any pillar and your behavior is identical to what you're used to. It's a really minor tweak though.

locked

1551 views

What we do is more... modular. You always help the person on your left. When helping, you shoot the bottom arrow. When shooting your own set of arrows, you shoot the top arrow.

Why not pair off and always shoot the same arrow (top, or bottom)? Less switching, less confusion.

This method makes all four positions function identically, and if one of your raiders is replaced for some reason, anyone who knows this method can jump right in regardless of which position they're filling. One last note: There's a strategy on the internet that has helpers shooting to the right. This is an inferior method. When you help the left hand guy, you can then watch the runner as he approaches your position and be 100% prepared. You'll never be surprised by him showing up.

I don't see why you'd be off your platform and unprepared when the runner calls out… If everyone starts on their platforms, and leaves only to punch the psion, then gets back on, you're not going to be surprised.

Remember… you can shoot another person's arrows without being on your own platform. In this way right has the advantage. You don't have to get back on your platform right away after killing your psion.

locked

1475 views

What we do is more... modular. You always help the person on your left. When helping, you shoot the bottom arrow. When shooting your own set of arrows, you shoot the top arrow.

Why not pair off and always shoot the same arrow (top, or bottom)? Less switching, less confusion.

This method makes all four positions function identically, and if one of your raiders is replaced for some reason, anyone who knows this method can jump right in regardless of which position they're filling. One last note: There's a strategy on the internet that has helpers shooting to the right. This is an inferior method. When you help the left hand guy, you can then watch the runner as he approaches your position and be 100% prepared. You'll never be surprised by him showing up.

I don't see why you'd be off your platform and unprepared when the runner calls out… If everyone starts on their platforms, and leaves only to punch the psion, then gets back on, you're not going to be surprised.

Remember… you can shoot another person's arrows without being on your own platform. In this way right has the advantage. You don't have to get back on your platform right away after killing your psion.

If you're looking right and one runner is faster than the other, he might surprise you. If you're looking left, you'll know he's on his way. Edge case, I admit.

locked

1466 views

What we do is more... modular. You always help the person on your left. When helping, you shoot the bottom arrow. When shooting your own set of arrows, you shoot the top arrow.

Why not pair off and always shoot the same arrow (top, or bottom)? Less switching, less confusion.

This method makes all four positions function identically, and if one of your raiders is replaced for some reason, anyone who knows this method can jump right in regardless of which position they're filling. One last note: There's a strategy on the internet that has helpers shooting to the right. This is an inferior method. When you help the left hand guy, you can then watch the runner as he approaches your position and be 100% prepared. You'll never be surprised by him showing up.

I don't see why you'd be off your platform and unprepared when the runner calls out… If everyone starts on their platforms, and leaves only to punch the psion, then gets back on, you're not going to be surprised.

Remember… you can shoot another person's arrows without being on your own platform. In this way right has the advantage. You don't have to get back on your platform right away after killing your psion.

If you're looking right and one runner is faster than the other, he might surprise you. If you're looking left, you'll know he's on his way. Edge case, I admit.

Counterpoint -- the other night we did it with the shooters "helping left" instead of helping on the right (which was my first time doing it that way). I actually had more difficulty helping the person on the left in time - probably precisely because one of the runners was faster than the other. By the time I shot my arrows and went to punch my Psion and head back to my platform, there were a few times that I was surprised to hear that the runner was already approaching the platform to my left and I was a little late to place the assisting bullets on the appropriate arrow over there.

locked

1497 views

Back to the forum index

RSS Feed of thread

DBO Forums

Suggestion for running the _________ Raid SP (Destiny)